My loss prevention buddy that works for Ross has told me that they are not allowed to place one finger on a shoplifter.
And hell, I wouldn't want to get stabbed for some damn candy or something that he was trying to take. Even if it is Reese's Cups.
What happened to this guy was worse
_________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52660 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:33 pm Post subject:
Shlumpledink wrote:
I don't fault anything security did, I just think they could have avoided being stabbed. I have no idea if they were seriously injured, but it isn't worth it in my opinion. Safety is what I am most concerned about, you don't know what these people are capable of.
Or the ahole shoplifter could have not stabbed somebody over a stupid petty theft charge.
You are working for one of the biggest corporations and richest families in the world and prolly making min wage.... Why would you go out your way to detain some low time shoplifters?
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52660 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:50 pm Post subject:
audioaxes wrote:
You are working for one of the biggest corporations and richest families in the world and prolly making min wage.... Why would you go out your way to detain some low time shoplifters?
Bigger question is why would you try to kill someone to avoid being arrested for petty theft?
You are working for one of the biggest corporations and richest families in the world and prolly making min wage.... Why would you go out your way to detain some low time shoplifters?
Ditto, I can understand if it was their own small business and livelihood....but you are talking about a mega-corporation which is barely paying its workers the bare minimum and will cut you loose at the first sign of trouble. The company could care less if you get the item back or not yet these guys are willing to get stabbed for it?
For some of these guys, it's more about enforcing the rules rather than the value of the merchandise. They are probably aspiring police officers or former police officers. They come with the mindset that they are there to keep bad guys from doing bad things.
For some of these guys, it's more about enforcing the rules rather than the value of the merchandise. They are probably aspiring police officers or former police officers. They come with the mindset that they are there to keep bad guys from doing bad things.
Sure they are...but companies have policies disavowing their actions if they don't follow the protocol. These security guards didn't follow protocol and could very much face legal action outside of the protection of the companies lawyers.
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52660 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:16 pm Post subject:
lakersken80 wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
For some of these guys, it's more about enforcing the rules rather than the value of the merchandise. They are probably aspiring police officers or former police officers. They come with the mindset that they are there to keep bad guys from doing bad things.
Sure they are...but companies have policies disavowing their actions if they don't follow the protocol. These security guards didn't follow protocol and could very much face legal action outside of the protection of the companies lawyers.
The truly scary part is that there are those who are more concerned about protocol in regards to corporate policy when it comes to theft than they are about thieves trying to kill someone to avoid going to court to face charges of shoplifting.
For some of these guys, it's more about enforcing the rules rather than the value of the merchandise. They are probably aspiring police officers or former police officers. They come with the mindset that they are there to keep bad guys from doing bad things.
Sure they are...but companies have policies disavowing their actions if they don't follow the protocol. These security guards didn't follow protocol and could very much face legal action outside of the protection of the companies lawyers.
The truly scary part is that there are those who are more concerned about protocol in regards to corporate policy when it comes to theft than they are about thieves trying to kill someone to avoid going to court to face charges of shoplifting.
The reason there is a policy is to prevent the security guards from turning a situation where the accused can end up suing for damages against the company. Not to mention these security guards don't have the authority of the police department so they could end up being on the wrong side of the law.
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52660 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:44 pm Post subject:
lakersken80 wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
For some of these guys, it's more about enforcing the rules rather than the value of the merchandise. They are probably aspiring police officers or former police officers. They come with the mindset that they are there to keep bad guys from doing bad things.
Sure they are...but companies have policies disavowing their actions if they don't follow the protocol. These security guards didn't follow protocol and could very much face legal action outside of the protection of the companies lawyers.
The truly scary part is that there are those who are more concerned about protocol in regards to corporate policy when it comes to theft than they are about thieves trying to kill someone to avoid going to court to face charges of shoplifting.
The reason there is a policy is to prevent the security guards from turning a situation where the accused can end up suing for damages against the company. Not to mention these security guards don't have the authority of the police department so they could end up being on the wrong side of the law.
The truly scary part is that there are those who are more concerned about protocol in regards to corporate policy when it comes to theft than they are about thieves trying to kill someone to avoid going to court to face charges of shoplifting.
For some of these guys, it's more about enforcing the rules rather than the value of the merchandise. They are probably aspiring police officers or former police officers. They come with the mindset that they are there to keep bad guys from doing bad things.
Sure they are...but companies have policies disavowing their actions if they don't follow the protocol. These security guards didn't follow protocol and could very much face legal action outside of the protection of the companies lawyers.
The truly scary part is that there are those who are more concerned about protocol in regards to corporate policy when it comes to theft than they are about thieves trying to kill someone to avoid going to court to face charges of shoplifting.
The reason there is a policy is to prevent the security guards from turning a situation where the accused can end up suing for damages against the company. Not to mention these security guards don't have the authority of the police department so they could end up being on the wrong side of the law.
The truly scary part is that there are those who are more concerned about protocol in regards to corporate policy when it comes to theft than they are about thieves trying to kill someone to avoid going to court to face charges of shoplifting.
You can repeat the same message over and over but that doesn't change why the policy is there.
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52660 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:04 pm Post subject:
lakersken80 wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
For some of these guys, it's more about enforcing the rules rather than the value of the merchandise. They are probably aspiring police officers or former police officers. They come with the mindset that they are there to keep bad guys from doing bad things.
Sure they are...but companies have policies disavowing their actions if they don't follow the protocol. These security guards didn't follow protocol and could very much face legal action outside of the protection of the companies lawyers.
The truly scary part is that there are those who are more concerned about protocol in regards to corporate policy when it comes to theft than they are about thieves trying to kill someone to avoid going to court to face charges of shoplifting.
The reason there is a policy is to prevent the security guards from turning a situation where the accused can end up suing for damages against the company. Not to mention these security guards don't have the authority of the police department so they could end up being on the wrong side of the law.
The truly scary part is that there are those who are more concerned about protocol in regards to corporate policy when it comes to theft than they are about thieves trying to kill someone to avoid going to court to face charges of shoplifting.
You can repeat the same message over and over but that doesn't change why the policy is there.
You can repeat the policy over and over. It doesn't mean that the policy changes the level of responsibility on the guy who did the stabbing.
They attempted to detain and restrain the shoplifter. He was pinned against a car and they were trying to handcuff him. This is when he resisted and ASSAULTED THEM WITH A DEADLY WEAPON.
Tell you what, maybe you have more restraint than I, but if a guy stabbed me, I'd beat the (bleep) out of him too. Especially if he still had the knife in his hand, which he did when they began to actually hit him.
That dirtbag thief deserved everything that he got, and I hope he rots in jail for long enough that any settlement he reaches won't be worth it.
The world isn't always so easily black and white though. I don't think anyone is placing blame on the security guard. They're merely pointing out the reason for the protocol of not touching a shoplifter. If you try to cross traffic during rush hour and get hit by a car, I'm going to feel sorry for you but also tell you not to do that again. I'm not blaming you but merely reiterating the importance of following protocols.
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67744 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:19 am Post subject:
Jeffs wrote:
They attempted to detain and restrain the shoplifter. He was pinned against a car and they were trying to handcuff him. This is when he resisted and ASSAULTED THEM WITH A DEADLY WEAPON.
Tell you what, maybe you have more restraint than I, but if a guy stabbed me, I'd beat the (bleep) out of him too. Especially if he still had the knife in his hand, which he did when they began to actually hit him.
That dirtbag thief deserved everything that he got, and I hope he rots in jail for long enough that any settlement he reaches won't be worth it.
If I were working LP, tried to restrain a thief, said thief had a knife and stabbed me, still had the knife in his hand, I'd turn his ass loose and run for cover and a cell phone, dial 911 and keep a eye on him/her. Oh yeah, I'd make sure 911 knew I was injured and too send EMT. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67744 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 12:24 pm Post subject:
Reflexx wrote:
If someone stabbed me, I wouldn't just release him and run if he had the knife. That opens me up to getting stabbed more.
This LP guy had a buddy with him. It was much safer to disarm the guy than to let go.
You're telling me you'd put you life on the line for Wal-Mart? _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
If someone stabbed me, I wouldn't just release him and run if he had the knife. That opens me up to getting stabbed more.
This LP guy had a buddy with him. It was much safer to disarm the guy than to let go.
You're telling me you'd put you life on the line for Wal-Mart?
I'm saying that if I am already restraining someone with a partner, and then he stabs me, I'm going to neutralize the threat instead of making the threat bigger.
Letting go of him while he still has possession of the weapon is increasing the risk.
Would I have been in that position in the first place? Probably not. But then again, I don't know what led up to it.
If someone stabbed me, I wouldn't just release him and run if he had the knife. That opens me up to getting stabbed more.
This LP guy had a buddy with him. It was much safer to disarm the guy than to let go.
You're telling me you'd put you life on the line for Wal-Mart?
I'm saying that if I am already restraining someone with a partner, and then he stabs me, I'm going to neutralize the threat instead of making the threat bigger.
Letting go of him while he still has possession of the weapon is increasing the risk.
Would I have been in that position in the first place? Probably not. But then again, I don't know what led up to it.
They guy had a weapon the entire time. He never tried to stab anyone, the loss prevention officers included, until AFTER he was assaulted. Reacting in an aggressive manner after someone has proactively acted aggressively towards you - is considered a reasonable reaction. That's what the force continuim is. When attempting to mitigate a crime, you're only allowed to use force reasonably matching the level of force/threat of the crime in question. No matter how PO'd you are, you can't commit a battery upon someone to attempt to mitigate a petty theft. Battery is disproportionate to the crime attempting to be mitigated. It's no different than when a cop pulls you over for speeding. Even if you call him a fashist freak and flip him the bird, he's not allowed to then pull you out of the car, throw you on the ground, cuff you, then slam your head against the car as he arrests you. As long as you don't threaten him, and show no risk of danger to the public, all he can do is give you that ticket.
Te shoplifter was an arsewipe, but in America, being an arsewipe does not mean you suddenly lose your civil rights. Heck, even a convicted murderer already in prison can't be assaulted in the manner that shoplifter was because he was suspected of stealing a candy bar from the prison commissary. _________________ I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail.
You are working for one of the biggest corporations and richest families in the world and prolly making min wage.... Why would you go out your way to detain some low time shoplifters?
Bigger question is why would you try to kill someone to avoid being arrested for petty theft?
My guess is because he is crazy. Which is why I wouldn't be chasing down shoplifters into the parking lot unless I was trained to do so. I've worked in retail and know how unpredictable the general public is. I've known a few lp's, and heard a lot of horror stories of this kind of thing, but never seen anything. An old lady came into the store I worked at once, mervyn's, went behind the jewelry counter and grabbed a box of jewelry that just came off the truck and walked out. Police were called immediately, no one dared to run after her, and I think that is smart because you never really know what someone is capable of until they do it.
Of course the stabbing is reprehensible, and totally unexpected. It has happened before though, and it shouldn't ever happen again. Police get a bad wrap, but this definitely should have been left to them in my opinion.
I haven't followed up on this, I hope both of those guys are okay. It kind of looked like one guy took it in the neck. Attempted murder charges?
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67744 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 7:30 am Post subject:
Does anyone know whether or not these guys were fired? _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
random rant...
stepped into a walmart for the first time in a while to pick up some cold medicine. The place looks like it had be ransacked by looters with half empty shelves and stuff all over the place. Didnt have the first or second options of what I was looking for in stock so had to settle with something else. And then I get to the line... only 3 lines open in a huge store like walmart. I leave and go to CVS and glady play a few bucks more.
Thanks for reminding me why I shouldnt go there
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67744 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:34 pm Post subject:
audioaxes wrote:
random rant...
stepped into a walmart for the first time in a while to pick up some cold medicine. The place looks like it had be ransacked by looters with half empty shelves and stuff all over the place. Didnt have the first or second options of what I was looking for in stock so had to settle with something else. And then I get to the line... only 3 lines open in a huge store like walmart. I leave and go to CVS and glady play a few bucks more.
Thanks for reminding me why I shouldnt go there
I've been to the Wal-Mart in the Crenshaw Mall once. I thought the store was very unkept. Are all Wal-Marts the same? _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
random rant...
stepped into a walmart for the first time in a while to pick up some cold medicine. The place looks like it had be ransacked by looters with half empty shelves and stuff all over the place. Didnt have the first or second options of what I was looking for in stock so had to settle with something else. And then I get to the line... only 3 lines open in a huge store like walmart. I leave and go to CVS and glady play a few bucks more.
Thanks for reminding me why I shouldnt go there
Walmarts usually have heavy traffic compared to other stores....so it will look like a bomb went off if there isn't routine sorting of the shelves. That and the workers look like they are overworked and underpaid will be another reason for it looking unkempt.
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They guy had a weapon the entire time. He never tried to stab anyone, the loss prevention officers included, until AFTER he was assaulted. Reacting in an aggressive manner after someone has proactively acted aggressively towards you - is considered a reasonable reaction. That's what the force continuim is. When attempting to mitigate a crime, you're only allowed to use force reasonably matching the level of force/threat of the crime in question. No matter how PO'd you are, you can't commit a battery upon someone to attempt to mitigate a petty theft. Battery is disproportionate to the crime attempting to be mitigated. It's no different than when a cop pulls you over for speeding. Even if you call him a fashist freak and flip him the bird, he's not allowed to then pull you out of the car, throw you on the ground, cuff you, then slam your head against the car as he arrests you. As long as you don't threaten him, and show no risk of danger to the public, all he can do is give you that ticket.
