|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
madsen35
Star Player
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 8611
|
 Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ringfinger wrote: | | madsen35 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | madsen35 wrote: | | X is one of my favorite Lakers. I love how he is constantly attacking the hoop. But if he's injured, we need to bring someone in for insurance. |
He's one of my least favorite Lakers. I mean, you love how he constantly attacks the hoop and yet in 4 seasons can't produce a FG% of more than 41.7%? That's pathetic.
That means he either isn't finishing on all of those attacks at the hoop, or, he is and his shooting is so abysmal that it brings down his overall percentage that much.
X in fact, just might be the worst player on the team right now. |
Good things happen when you attack the hoop. Misses can turn into offensive rebounds and attacking the hoop draws fouls. |
Misses are far more likely to result in a defensive rebound for the opponent. You don't want misses. Do you? |
Of course not. But I'd rather have a player take it to the hoop than shoot deep 3's, which we had too many of last season.
_________________
Good Laker book I recommend, "The Biggest What-If's in Lakers History" http://www.amazon.com/Biggest-What-Ifs-Angeles-History-ebook/dp/B00BB3OEC0 |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
hitmankb
Star Player
Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Posts: 1280
Location: Los Angeles
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| TDRock wrote: | | Alpha wrote: | | i was laughing at the "... and this has been an issue for more than a minute now." part. |
Right? I mean, I had to go look it up, this injury happened in March. The heck?? And if it hasn't healed since March, why I am to believe it is now going to heal within 5-6 weeks. What. Is. Really. Going. On? LOL! |
The original post above stated that he had surgery in MID April... From experience, Wrists(always moving), fingers, and Knees (load carrying) can take a while to heal no matter how old or young you are. Everyone's body is a little different. Thumbs have to be the worst...
_________________
Thanks,
Kenny
--------------------------------------------------------
AllorNothing on Ron Artest | Quote: | | He should be let go of his contract by the Kings to pursue a topnotch psychiatrist in LA. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sonic the laker
Star Player
Joined: 06 Oct 2013
Posts: 2064
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ringfinger wrote: | | sonic the laker wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | madsen35 wrote: | | X is one of my favorite Lakers. I love how he is constantly attacking the hoop. But if he's injured, we need to bring someone in for insurance. |
He's one of my least favorite Lakers. I mean, you love how he constantly attacks the hoop and yet in 4 seasons can't produce a FG% of more than 41.7%? That's pathetic.
That means he either isn't finishing on all of those attacks at the hoop, or, he is and his shooting is so abysmal that it brings down his overall percentage that much.
X in fact, just might be the worst player on the team right now. |
I actually really like X, and he really seems to have some solid potential. Now, whether that potential ever gets realized, is another story altogether.
As a previous poster stated, X is known for his fearless forays to the basket. Relentlessly putting pressure on the opposing teams defense. He has a strong build, which helps.
The problem, which I believe accounts for his low shooting percentage, is his streaky shooting, and his decision making when attacking off the dribble. There are times when X attacks the rim, and gets puts up a forced shot, or gets called for charging.
With experience, he hopefully improves in these areas (as well as free throw shooting), and rounds out into a key player for the Lakers.
|
Hopefully he turns in to the next Lebron.
But realistically, he is downright garbage. As I said before, if you're a player whose only real contribution is "relentlessly attacking the basket" then that player has no business averaging 41% from the field every year. Every year for nearly half a decade this guy is relentlessly attacking the basket to the point where, what did you say, it puts pressure on opposing defenses. And he's finishing games at 41%? Every season?
That means only one of two things.
1) He is either so remarkably inept at shooting that, that shooting brings down his overall FG% which would otherwise be quite high as a relentless basket attacker
or
2) He doesn't finish on all of those relentless attacks of the basket.
The answer -- is both! He's a poor shooter who doesn't finish very well on shots close to the basket. Which means he shouldn't be shooting from distance nor shooting close to the basket. Which means, he shouldn't be on an NBA roster. (Granted, he's BARELY on one with a minimum contract).
Last season he had an eFG% of 54% on "inside" shots which are shots that are very close to the basket, including dunks and tips.
That is awful for a guy who makes his name as a relentless attacker of the basket. Let's put it this way.... that 54% eFG on close-to-the-basket shots, is the WORST of every player to have played for the LA Lakers last season except for two players: Steve Nash and Kendall Marshall.
Do you know what this means? It means that a guy whose reputation is entirely built on relentlessly attacking the basket is worse at actually doing so than essentially every player he plays with.
Can you imagine if someone hired you because you had the reputation of being good at something, but actually, you were one of the worst? That's how you earn the lowest possible salary your employer is legally allowed to pay you. |
Look. You could be right. I'm not going to attempt to dispute your numbers, or the conclusions you draw from them. I'm not much of a numbers person, though I do believe numbers do have their place.
What I do know is what I saw, when X played. And, despite X's flaws, I liked what I saw. Having said that, there are players I've seen before that I liked, but didn't work out for the Lakers. Morris, Earl Clark, Ebanks...hell, I even liked Smush, before he went all mental.
For various reasons, those guys didn't make it as Lakers (though I still like Earl Clark). But, that's part of the NBA. Players are evaluated by both their numbers, and the "eye test", and given a chance based on potential.
Xavier may fly...he may fall. But, I'm hoping for the former, and we'll see what happens when the season begins. I believe he will show improvement.
ZOOM! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TooMuchMajicBuss
Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Sep 2008
Posts: 21078
Location: In a white room, with black curtains near the station
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
You can quantify shooting percentages but it's harder to quantify willingness to attack, and how well that plays in to the rest of the offense. I'd rather a player be too willing than not willing enough. I hate watching clanking outside jumpers when nobody takes that role. That's one reason I'm looking forward to seeing what Randle does, and I sure hope to see more of Kobe's post play this year.
I hope X recovers, sounds like he's a ways off yet. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
silkwilkes
Star Player
Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 6938
Location: searching for the mojo of Dr. Buss
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Even is he makes it... X is going to be completely out of shape since he hasn't been able to do anything for months. I don't think we're going to get much out of him for at least the first 2-3 months. It's going to be hard for him imo. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
I think X was brought back (team knew of his injuries) to:
1. be useful as basically a "new" player that plays more towards the second half of the year, fresh legs.
2. get some bird-rights on him going forward now that he's been signed on the Lakers for 2 years, with the hopes his health fares better.
Not bad to gamble with a minimum contract.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90306
Location: Formerly Known As 24
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | I think X was brought back (team knew of his injuries) to:
1. be useful as basically a "new" player that plays more towards the second half of the year, fresh legs.
2. get some bird-rights on him going forward now that he's been signed on the Lakers for 2 years, with the hopes his health fares better.
Not bad to gamble with a minimum contract. |
Agreed. Lakers like what they saw (and unlike wes, didn't see any motor or other mental issues), and are essentially stashing him.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| madsen35 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | madsen35 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | madsen35 wrote: | | X is one of my favorite Lakers. I love how he is constantly attacking the hoop. But if he's injured, we need to bring someone in for insurance. |
He's one of my least favorite Lakers. I mean, you love how he constantly attacks the hoop and yet in 4 seasons can't produce a FG% of more than 41.7%? That's pathetic.
That means he either isn't finishing on all of those attacks at the hoop, or, he is and his shooting is so abysmal that it brings down his overall percentage that much.
X in fact, just might be the worst player on the team right now. |
Good things happen when you attack the hoop. Misses can turn into offensive rebounds and attacking the hoop draws fouls. |
Misses are far more likely to result in a defensive rebound for the opponent. You don't want misses. Do you? |
Of course not. But I'd rather have a player take it to the hoop than shoot deep 3's, which we had too many of last season. |
But good things can happen when you shoot deep 3s! Long offensive rebounds, etc. Right? =)
The bottom line is that it is not good when a small forward is less efficient on shot attempts close to the basket than Steve Blake and Jordan Farmar. Especially when, that is supposed to be the best part of your game. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
| sonic the laker wrote: | Look. You could be right. I'm not going to attempt to dispute your numbers, or the conclusions you draw from them. I'm not much of a numbers person, though I do believe numbers do have their place.
What I do know is what I saw, when X played. And, despite X's flaws, I liked what I saw. Having said that, there are players I've seen before that I liked, but didn't work out for the Lakers. Morris, Earl Clark, Ebanks...hell, I even liked Smush, before he went all mental.
For various reasons, those guys didn't make it as Lakers (though I still like Earl Clark). But, that's part of the NBA. Players are evaluated by both their numbers, and the "eye test", and given a chance based on potential.
Xavier may fly...he may fall. But, I'm hoping for the former, and we'll see what happens when the season begins. I believe he will show improvement. |
Haha, the good old eye test. It's the same test that has parents convinced their child is the BEST looking child on the planet! But ok, let's roll with it. You and I saw the same thing: Xavier Henry. And numbers aside, we walk away with two completely different conclusions. Crazy, isn't it? You liked what you saw, I didn't like what I saw at all. I saw poor shooting, poor ball handling, etc.
So, who's right? Let's look to the numbers. And the numbers side with my observation. The numbers reflect poor shooting. The number suggest poor ball handling. And the numbers suggest poor finishing.
Where we can agree, is on what we hope he will do. I hope he'll fly too. Heck, I hope he becomes the next Lebron James. No, better than Lebron James. I hope he enters the GOAT discussion.
But he's had 4 years now and he's barely showing he even belongs in the NBA. I have no idea what it is that you saw, but maybe it was another player you confused with X? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rivershow
Star Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2011
Posts: 6731
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
If X can't play early or regresses, I don't see why Jordan Clarkson can't take his spot with the second unit.
2nd Unit
Nash
Clarkson
Nick Young
Randle
Davis
or if Nash can't play
Clarkson
X
Nick Young
Randle
Davis |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
| That could be interesting. At this point, Clarkson has more upside than X. X is serviceable at best. Let's see what clarkson can do and if he can't deliver we can throw X in there |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SDLakersFan
Star Player
Joined: 01 Apr 2012
Posts: 2044
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| malicious_intent wrote: | | We have 2 spots open and I wouldn't mind grabbing Beasley and sessions. |
Those would be 2 great moves. So judging from how this summer has gone, we're not even considering either of those guys. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TDRock
Retired Number
Joined: 27 May 2010
Posts: 49175
Location: LA to the Bay
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
| hitmankb wrote: | | TDRock wrote: | | Alpha wrote: | | i was laughing at the "... and this has been an issue for more than a minute now." part. |
Right? I mean, I had to go look it up, this injury happened in March. The heck?? And if it hasn't healed since March, why I am to believe it is now going to heal within 5-6 weeks. What. Is. Really. Going. On? LOL! |
The original post above stated that he had surgery in MID April... From experience, Wrists(always moving), fingers, and Knees (load carrying) can take a while to heal no matter how old or young you are. Everyone's body is a little different. Thumbs have to be the worst... |
I got March from a Rotoworld article. March or April, your post only re-enforces my basic premise: a ) that's a long recovery. b ) if he's been this long to recover, why do I believe he's now going to suddenly be all healed in the next few weeks. If it's as complicated as an injury as you describe then??? Don't get me wrong, I hope a brother heals soon, and if I'm wrong I'm wrong, I'm just saying it doesn't sound plausible to me right now. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26383
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| This is the reason the Lakers are eyeing Beasley most likely. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fiendishoc
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 8488
Location: The (real) short corner
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Should have signed CDR |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rawr
Star Player
Joined: 26 Dec 2007
Posts: 1186
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I am so pissed we didn't retain Kent Bazemore. He was basically the exact same player as Xavier, but better. I would have LOVED having him as our 3rd string 1/2/3. That kid was playing extremely well, had excellent size and length, and only got signed for 2 years at 2 million each.
I hope Henry gets healthy.
_________________
You are either in or on your way to the NBA Finals. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
madsen35
Star Player
Joined: 14 Jun 2002
Posts: 8611
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Rawr wrote: | I am so pissed we didn't retain Kent Bazemore. He was basically the exact same player as Xavier, but better. I would have LOVED having him as our 3rd string 1/2/3. That kid was playing extremely well, had excellent size and length, and only got signed for 2 years at 2 million each.
I hope Henry gets healthy. |
That's a good point.
_________________
Good Laker book I recommend, "The Biggest What-If's in Lakers History" http://www.amazon.com/Biggest-What-Ifs-Angeles-History-ebook/dp/B00BB3OEC0 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26383
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
When it comes to X last season was his first season of significant minutes in his career, couple that with the fact his role was constantly being changed and he's not really a three point shooter and his shooting percentage doesn't seem so bad, particularly when a lot of his shots also came in the form of long mid range jumpers early in the season, a shot he didn't have.
However what you should also focus on is how he closed the season.
During the last stretch of the season Xavier finished 52% in the paint and shot 54% from mid range. Both very solid numbers, extremely solid.
So why was his shooting percentage in the 40s? Cause he shot 18.2% from three during that stretch.
So where X needs to improve Is his three point shooting. But his slashing and rim finishing is fine considering the contact he draws without getting the respect of the whistle as often. It's a good sign not a bad one.
X is starting to turn the corner at this point in his career last season and if not injured probably turns it even more significantly. So calling him garbage is a stretch considering how well he performed last season in his first significant time and important role. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mnstrdnk
Starting Rotation
Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 810
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ringfinger wrote: | | madsen35 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | madsen35 wrote: | | X is one of my favorite Lakers. I love how he is constantly attacking the hoop. But if he's injured, we need to bring someone in for insurance. |
He's one of my least favorite Lakers. I mean, you love how he constantly attacks the hoop and yet in 4 seasons can't produce a FG% of more than 41.7%? That's pathetic.
That means he either isn't finishing on all of those attacks at the hoop, or, he is and his shooting is so abysmal that it brings down his overall percentage that much.
X in fact, just might be the worst player on the team right now. |
Good things happen when you attack the hoop. Misses can turn into offensive rebounds and attacking the hoop draws fouls. |
Misses are far more likely to result in a defensive rebound for the opponent. You don't want misses. Do you? |
When you attack the rim, you have opposing sliding over to help on defense. They are out of position which allows for more offensive rebounds. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144464
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| 24 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | I think X was brought back (team knew of his injuries) to:
1. be useful as basically a "new" player that plays more towards the second half of the year, fresh legs.
2. get some bird-rights on him going forward now that he's been signed on the Lakers for 2 years, with the hopes his health fares better.
Not bad to gamble with a minimum contract. |
Agreed. Lakers like what they saw (and unlike wes, didn't see any motor or other mental issues), and are essentially stashing him. |
I still look at X and see the kid who is the career freshman scoring leader at Kansas. Considering the pros who played there, that impresses me. Though I am open to the thought that he will never be that player in the NBA.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144464
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ringfinger wrote: | | sonic the laker wrote: | Look. You could be right. I'm not going to attempt to dispute your numbers, or the conclusions you draw from them. I'm not much of a numbers person, though I do believe numbers do have their place.
What I do know is what I saw, when X played. And, despite X's flaws, I liked what I saw. Having said that, there are players I've seen before that I liked, but didn't work out for the Lakers. Morris, Earl Clark, Ebanks...hell, I even liked Smush, before he went all mental.
For various reasons, those guys didn't make it as Lakers (though I still like Earl Clark). But, that's part of the NBA. Players are evaluated by both their numbers, and the "eye test", and given a chance based on potential.
Xavier may fly...he may fall. But, I'm hoping for the former, and we'll see what happens when the season begins. I believe he will show improvement. |
Haha, the good old eye test. It's the same test that has parents convinced their child is the BEST looking child on the planet! But ok, let's roll with it. You and I saw the same thing: Xavier Henry. And numbers aside, we walk away with two completely different conclusions. Crazy, isn't it? You liked what you saw, I didn't like what I saw at all. I saw poor shooting, poor ball handling, etc.
So, who's right? Let's look to the numbers. And the numbers side with my observation. The numbers reflect poor shooting. The number suggest poor ball handling. And the numbers suggest poor finishing.
Where we can agree, is on what we hope he will do. I hope he'll fly too. Heck, I hope he becomes the next Lebron James. No, better than Lebron James. I hope he enters the GOAT discussion.
But he's had 4 years now and he's barely showing he even belongs in the NBA. I have no idea what it is that you saw, but maybe it was another player you confused with X? |
The numbers would be in X's favor if he could simlpy make free throws.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144464
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ringfinger wrote: | | That could be interesting. At this point, Clarkson has more upside than X. X is serviceable at best. Let's see what clarkson can do and if he can't deliver we can throw X in there |
I like Clarkson, but I try to temper my comments since I am biased toward him. I follow Mizzou and as such probably have an inflated opinion of what he can do.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144464
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Rawr wrote: | I am so pissed we didn't retain Kent Bazemore. He was basically the exact same player as Xavier, but better. I would have LOVED having him as our 3rd string 1/2/3. That kid was playing extremely well, had excellent size and length, and only got signed for 2 years at 2 million each.
I hope Henry gets healthy. |
That was Bazemore's choice. He probably didn't want to be our 3rd string player.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Rawr wrote: | I am so pissed we didn't retain Kent Bazemore. He was basically the exact same player as Xavier, but better. I would have LOVED having him as our 3rd string 1/2/3. That kid was playing extremely well, had excellent size and length, and only got signed for 2 years at 2 million each.
I hope Henry gets healthy. |
That was Bazemore's choice. He probably didn't want to be our 3rd string player. |
More like the Lakers were holding every discernible $ of cap space until Melo/LBJ et. al. said no to the Lakers. Baze didn't want to wait it out and ATL gave him an offer he liked (and yes, probably more playing time).
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| mnstrdnk wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | madsen35 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | madsen35 wrote: | | X is one of my favorite Lakers. I love how he is constantly attacking the hoop. But if he's injured, we need to bring someone in for insurance. |
He's one of my least favorite Lakers. I mean, you love how he constantly attacks the hoop and yet in 4 seasons can't produce a FG% of more than 41.7%? That's pathetic.
That means he either isn't finishing on all of those attacks at the hoop, or, he is and his shooting is so abysmal that it brings down his overall percentage that much.
X in fact, just might be the worst player on the team right now. |
Good things happen when you attack the hoop. Misses can turn into offensive rebounds and attacking the hoop draws fouls. |
Misses are far more likely to result in a defensive rebound for the opponent. You don't want misses. Do you? |
When you attack the rim, you have opposing sliding over to help on defense. They are out of position which allows for more offensive rebounds. |
Sure. And missed free throws allow for offensive rebound opportunities too. Does that mean we want missed free throws? No.
When you have a player that attacks the basket, you want them to finish. X doesn't. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
