1963 Finals

 
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nevitt_smrek
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:34 pm    Post subject: 1963 Finals

Classic game 6 was aired on NBA-TV over this past weekend. First time I've seen this one.

Boston had the better bench and, most importantly, had a HOF center. For the series, Russell out-rebounded the Lakers top two rebounders by himself (159 to 149). OTOH, the Lakers relied heavily on two guys offensively and didn't have enough talent upfront.

Half of the games were decided by three points or less, each won by Boston. In those games, Bos had a clear adv in FGA. Gotta wonder about the turnovers, a statistic that wasn't kept back then. Judging from game 6, the Lakers appeared to be more careless. West had a horrible one late in the 4th, telegraphed lazy pass in a very tight game.

If the Lakers had Wilt for all the h2h battles, this rivalry probably wouldn't have been so one-sided. Then again, Wilt had some quality teams in Philly and SF that usually came up short vs. those green jersey guys. Boston played well as a team and was better coached. Gotta give the devil its due.


http://webuns.chez-alice.fr/finals/1963.htm (stats credit)
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Birmingham
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:40 am    Post subject:

I wonder if Kobe watched this one live back in Italy.
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CabinCreek44
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:31 am    Post subject:

Indeed, the Celtics were well coached, and their style of play was revolutionary at the time.

But in the end, Russell was always the difference. 11 out of 13, and one of the two losses he was playing on a badly sprained ankle. His dominance was ferocious.

If they had kept track of blocked shots back then, Russell and Chamberlain would still be sitting in the Nos. 1 and 2 positions in that stat today, 45 years after Russell's last game, and 41 years after Wilt's.
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LAL4K3RS
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:27 am    Post subject:

Celtics had a lot of guys who were at the top of their game back during that epic run. But remember, the NBA was only a handful of teams so if you happen to have a deep bench, you probably won very often.

Not to slam LBJ, Wade, and Bosh, but they had a very deep bench and could only win 2 of 4 finals. Why? Because other teams had more depth and were able to contend with their depth and that forced the starters to play more minutes. Wade would fade. Bosh would disappear and everyone would look at LBJ who would dish off rather than take the final shot or two.

I think if the Lakers had Wilt from the beginning of his career, we would have won a few of those 11 championships. I think he would have negated Russell enough to make a difference in a few of those series. Even if we just won 3 or 4 of them, we would have the lead in total banners as a LAKER team. They tend to pull out the Minni Laker team and say those don't count. I think they should only count the ones after the merger myself but that would take away all of their championship prior to 75-76.

Imagine if we only counted championships after the merger...it would be a very different outlook:

Lakers: 10
Bulls :6
Celtics: 5
Spurs: 5
Pistons: 3
Heat: 3

Then a lot of single winners.

But out of 38 years, that would make the Lakers winners of about 25% of the championships. Not bad for a franchise. We have gone to the championship 16 times which is north of 40% That is a storied franchise number when you look at the emergence of the NBA and ABA as a single unit. Not some hollow half league with few teams and stacked HOF players on one in particular.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:25 am    Post subject:

Agree that the lack of a league top six center over that period (Thurmond, Wilt, Russ, Zelmo Beatty, Walt Bellamy, Mel Daniels) was a huge impediment for the Lakers during those Celtic face-offs. The difference might have been enough to wrangle a title or two.

An equally big deal for our guys was having second rate minds in the coach's chair. NO one ever figured our how to defuse the Elgin-Wilt conflcits, neither the off court or on-court types. A lot of time went by and Elgin's debilitation took place before Bill Sharman came here to become the first LA Laker coach who could - and did - recognize how to get Wilt to adapt his game into a winner. Sadly, that came a little too near the end of careers for both West and Chamberlain for many repeat attempts.
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nevitt_smrek
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 2:55 pm    Post subject:

70sdude wrote:
Agree that the lack of a league top six center over that period (Thurmond, Wilt, Russ, Zelmo Beatty, Walt Bellamy, Mel Daniels) was a huge impediment for the Lakers during those Celtic face-offs. The difference might have been enough to wrangle a title or two.

An equally big deal for our guys was having second rate minds in the coach's chair. NO one ever figured our how to defuse the Elgin-Wilt conflcits, neither the off court or on-court types. A lot of time went by and Elgin's debilitation took place before Bill Sharman came here to become the first LA Laker coach who could - and did - recognize how to get Wilt to adapt his game into a winner. Sadly, that came a little too near the end of careers for both West and Chamberlain for many repeat attempts.


LaRusso looked decent on offense, could step out and hit some shots. But he was undersized, roughly the same size as Madsen I think. Some of the problems could have been resolved by paying more attention to detail, particularly blocking out. In game 6, Russell got quite a few cheap putbacks because no one put a body on him.

A few years, San Fran had both Thurmond and Wilt, with Rick Barry. Still couldn't topple Boston with that kind of talent.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:39 pm    Post subject:

Birmingham wrote:
I wonder if Kobe watched this one live back in Italy.


Yeah while Greg Oden was babysitting him.
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70sdude
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:46 pm    Post subject:

nevitt_smrek wrote:
70sdude wrote:
Agree that the lack of a league top six center over that period (Thurmond, Wilt, Russ, Zelmo Beatty, Walt Bellamy, Mel Daniels) was a huge impediment for the Lakers during those Celtic face-offs. The difference might have been enough to wrangle a title or two.

An equally big deal for our guys was having second rate minds in the coach's chair. NO one ever figured our how to defuse the Elgin-Wilt conflcits, neither the off court or on-court types. A lot of time went by and Elgin's debilitation took place before Bill Sharman came here to become the first LA Laker coach who could - and did - recognize how to get Wilt to adapt his game into a winner. Sadly, that came a little too near the end of careers for both West and Chamberlain for many repeat attempts.


LaRusso looked decent on offense, could step out and hit some shots. But he was undersized, roughly the same size as Madsen I think. Some of the problems could have been resolved by paying more attention to detail, particularly blocking out. In game 6, Russell got quite a few cheap putbacks because no one put a body on him.

A few years, San Fran had both Thurmond and Wilt, with Rick Barry. Still couldn't topple Boston with that kind of talent.


Rudy LaRusso was really quite an effective player, especially with Baylor. He matched up well against Tommy Heinsohn too, so the positional differential there wasn't what hurt us very much in those series. Rudy was the muscle guy, the picker/blocker and weak side put-back player up front and he had the skills to go with that. His career is still borderline HoF quality, though he's probably never gonna make it in.

Krebs was never a very good center and Russell went unencumbered against him. Ray Felix was stick-figure weak, Imhoff was just too slow and lumbering, and Ellis a fine stretch four by today's standards, and that was enough deficit to enable the Celtics to beat us. Let's not even talk about Counts as a center ! Picture Dirk Nowitzki at 3/4 speed, which makes a decent 1960's shooting forward, but not a center. I always hoped we could see the LAL obtain Thurmond ...

BTW, Wilt tried to intimidate the rookie Nate Thurmond in the 16 months they played together in SF. What a shock they didn't fit well. Wilt rarely could see past him own stat line.
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