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The Western Conference Breakdown: Why the Lakers are Playoff bound in the west.
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Telleris
Star Player

Joined: 28 May 2013
Posts: 2371

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:08 pm Post subject:

Could? sure, but they don't really have much in the way of quality young talent except Bledsoe, but more than that, it requires them to develop skills they don't have, the Dragic/Frye pnr was the best in the nba last year, but without a quality jumper to punish sinking, it can never be used as a bread and butter play (see Dwight). Also, in basically all non discounted spurs teams scenarios, it's your top 3-4 guys that determine your regular season record, the 2011 lakers lost 6moy lamar odom for no one, went from phil jackson to mike brown and still finished in basically the same place, but this is just how it goes. Phoenix lost one of those keys guys, the rest of the teams? a few shuffled the captain's deck, but that's about it _________________ I believe everything the media tells me except for anything for which I have direct personal knowledge, which they always get wrong

-Showtime-
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Joined: 12 Jul 2014
Posts: 324

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:12 am Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:

Krispy Kreme wrote:

He won't win a ring with Houston. As Shaq used to say, write it down, take a picture, I don't care.

We shall see. If he doesn't I'm sure you guys will constantly mention it. Best believe I will do the same if he does.

I think you have too much 'dream' in that milkshake.

When does Howard's contract end with the Rockets anyways?

venturalakersfan
Retired Number

Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:16 am Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:

^The Suns have a lot of young players. They could easily get even better based on internal growth.

The Suns have some young players who just got paid. It will be interesting to see how they react.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.

Dreamshake
Franchise Player

Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13711

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:39 pm Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:

^The Suns have a lot of young players. They could easily get even better based on internal growth.

I find it interesting that people realize the Suns (and other teams) are young and can get better from internal growth, but can't grasp the same concept as it relates to Houston. Dragic (27) is 3 years older than Harden (24) and only one year younger than Howard (28). Bledsoe, Thomas and the Morris twins are the same age as Harden. Plumlee is 25. Gerald Green is 28.

T.Jones is 22. Beverly is 25. D-Mo is 23. Three of the starters will be 25 and under, with Howard and Ariza being 28. The Rockets are just as young as any other team.

I took the ages from last season and didn't feel like looking up all the birthdays, so everyone could be one year older....but the point still remains.

ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:46 pm Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:

LakerSanity wrote:

^The Suns have a lot of young players. They could easily get even better based on internal growth.

Harden's not going to get any better with age. He's only going to get better with maturity.

ryan_c
Star Player

Joined: 08 Dec 2007
Posts: 1371

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:34 pm Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:

LakerSanity wrote:

^The Suns have a lot of young players. They could easily get even better based on internal growth.

We also have seen before young teams making no progress or regressing on their next season.

ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:36 pm Post subject:

ryan_c wrote:

Dreamshake wrote:

LakerSanity wrote:

^The Suns have a lot of young players. They could easily get even better based on internal growth.

We also have seen before young teams making no progress or regressing on their next season.

Yeah, I think the thing is ... some guys just seem to "get it" and other guys don't. And I think that's why more people are down on Houston's younger players.

Howard and Harden, to me, just seem dumb as rocks. Am I the only one?

And their issues, have never been physical tools like needs to improve shooting or whatever, it's always been between the ears.

ryan_c
Star Player

Joined: 08 Dec 2007
Posts: 1371

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:38 pm Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:

ryan_c wrote:

Dreamshake wrote:

LakerSanity wrote:

^The Suns have a lot of young players. They could easily get even better based on internal growth.

We also have seen before young teams making no progress or regressing on their next season.

Yeah, Like Harden, he is not this bad on defense when he was playing with OKC. There is only one explanation on why Harden regressed on defense, he is lazy at it.

Dreamshake
Franchise Player

Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13711

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:05 pm Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:

Dreamshake wrote:

LakerSanity wrote:

^The Suns have a lot of young players. They could easily get even better based on internal growth.

Harden's not going to get any better with age. He's only going to get better with maturity.

If that's the case then can't you say the same about every player I mentioned? I don't see how you can conclude Harden is dumb as rocks but the other players aren't. Which of them have shown the ability to accomplish what he has in their careers? If he's dumb then what is Dragic, for example? It took him until he as 27 to have the type of season a dumb Harden had at what, 22 or 23?

It goes both ways....

ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:10 pm Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:

ringfinger wrote:

Dreamshake wrote:

LakerSanity wrote:

^The Suns have a lot of young players. They could easily get even better based on internal growth.

Harden's not going to get any better with age. He's only going to get better with maturity.

If that's the case then can't you say the same about every player I mentioned? It goes both ways....

No.

Because some players, you get the sense they just need to grow in to their bodies, or, improve on a particular skill over time, like you know with Kevin Durant, it was just a matter of time. Same with Lebron. You watch them play, you watch them off the court, and somehow, you know, their time as a true franchise player is coming.

I can't explain to you why I don't feel that way about Harden. Maybe it's because he's more focused on this ridiculous beard instead of his game. Maybe it's because he's so young and doesn't even try on defense. Maybe it's all of the above. But I just don't get the sense with Harden, that he is this focused, mature player that is going to improve every year.

Dreamshake
Franchise Player

Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13711

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:12 pm Post subject:

^^^^^ I'm referring to the Suns young players. FWIW, Harden has improved every year.

ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:20 pm Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:

^^^^^

I'm referring to the Suns young players.

FWIW, Harden has improved every year.

Dragic seems focused to me. Bledsoe, hard to say since he was hurt for so long. I mean, I never talked about the Suns players previously.

I don't know what to tell you. Some guys just seems dumb and some guys just seem smart to me.

Deandre Jordan, Dwight Howard, James Harden. They all seem dumb to me. And not dumb like a low SAT score or whatever, but, not cerebral type players. To me, a Chris Paul is a more cerebral type player. Harden seems like he'd rather groom his beard and wear some ridiculous outfit than watch game tape. Don't get the sense he has the big picture in mind. At all. His numbers go up and his teams don't because he doesn't lead.

Let's not talk about those stupid Rockets and Suns players though. They're worth less than garbage in the Lakers Discussion thread.

-Showtime-
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Joined: 12 Jul 2014
Posts: 324

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:05 pm Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:

Dreamshake wrote:

ringfinger wrote:

Dreamshake wrote:

LakerSanity wrote:

^The Suns have a lot of young players. They could easily get even better based on internal growth.

Harden's not going to get any better with age. He's only going to get better with maturity.

If that's the case then can't you say the same about every player I mentioned? It goes both ways....

I agree with you on Harden.
Harden rather pad his stats than play a lick of defense and he shrinks in the playoffs as the main option while shoots a terrible percentage.
Of course, the Rockets will rather blame others since he's their perceived 'star'.

GoldenThroat
Moderator

Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 37474

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:00 pm Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:

LakerSanity wrote:

^The Suns have a lot of young players. They could easily get even better based on internal growth.

Improvement is far more tied to experience than age. In the age of players leaving straight from HS (pre-2006) or after one year, the notion that 28-32 is a players prime is antiquated. Guys like Jones, Beverly, & D-Mo are candidates to get better to some significant degree. The other guys are not, including Harden.

Dreamshake
Franchise Player

Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13711

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:43 pm Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:

Dreamshake wrote:

LakerSanity wrote:

^The Suns have a lot of young players. They could easily get even better based on internal growth.

I agree overall but slightly disagree on one aspect. You have to factor in experience in a certain role. Dragic was a backup for most of his career. Last year was his first time really having that type of responsibility. Even though he is older he still can improve in that role. Same for Harden. This is his 3rd year trying to carry a team. They both can improve on that front.

KendrickLamar
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Joined: 07 Apr 2014
Posts: 515

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:56 pm Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:

LakerSanity wrote:

^The Suns have a lot of young players. They could easily get even better based on internal growth.

James Harden the so called franchise player of the Houston rockets wasn't able to shoot 40% from the field in his last 2 playoff outings with the rockets. That should ring some bells in the minds of people who consider him to be a franchise player. He wants to win, well he needs to fix up his mental game ASAP and mature up a bit. Going out and calling yourself the best 2-way shooting guard is disrespectful, this guys ego will be his downfall bank on it. That ego only works with some players who can back it up. IMHO I would choose Demar Derozan over him.

MorlockO
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Joined: 20 Jul 2014
Posts: 184

Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:18 pm Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:

GoldenThroat wrote:

Dreamshake wrote:

LakerSanity wrote:

^The Suns have a lot of young players. They could easily get even better based on internal growth.

Just a correction, last year was his 2nd year in that role.

Spill512
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Joined: 20 May 2014
Posts: 212

Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 1:50 am Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:

Dreamshake wrote:

^^^^^

I'm referring to the Suns young players.

FWIW, Harden has improved every year.

Whats your definition of cerebral? I've always had the opposite impression of Harden. His scoring and playmaking both seem pretty calculated and "cerebral" to me. He's slow in his movements. He does a lot of little things like using his butt to get small amounts of spacing. His footwork is good. He always has his head up reading the defense. He comes off picks slowly, similar to Kobe in that respect, to see how the defense reacted. Even the way he draws fouls...his edge as a player always seemed more mental than athletic.

Jeggs
Star Player

Joined: 14 Oct 2013
Posts: 1659

Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 8:19 am Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:

-Showtime- wrote:

What makes you think it will be any less disappointing this season with the loss of 3 key players?

I don't consider Lin a key player that can't be replaced. Asik was not a key player for the majority of last season and wouldn't be against most playoff opponents since we can't play him and Howard together. We have a fine replacement for Parsons. In summary, I think y'all are overstating the losses. We lost two bench players and replaced a good starting SF with a good starting SF. The team returns 4 of 5 starters, two being arguably the best in the league at their position, and 3 being young enough to continue to improve.

-Showtime- wrote:

Weaker team.

See above. I don't think the team is weaker.

-Showtime- wrote:

Looks like you are downplaying the contributions of Asik, Lin and Parsons.

No, I'm properly stating their contributions.

-Showtime- wrote:

So you mention Parson getting outplayed by Batum even though he posted better numbers than Harden?

Harden played like garbage in the postseason. I'm not the one touting someone's postseason play though.

-Showtime- wrote:

Then you neglect to mention Harden was clearly outplayed the whole series. Harden gave away 4 games, by the same coin you should regret keeping him.

I've mentioned numerous times that Harden choked in the postseason. Now that his name is mentioned here I have no issue saying it again. I also don't expect him to play that poorly next postseason.

-Showtime- wrote:

Blaming Lin for 'giving away 1 game while absolving Beverley for a key turnover, Harden who had abysmal shooting, terrible defence and a key turnover himself in game 3 almost losing the game, and turning a blind eye to the last play of the series in which Lin wasn't even involved clearly shows an innate bias.

No it doesn't. I've noted Harden played like garbage. Even with all that, that game is ours if Lin doesn't throw it away. He almost threw away another game in that series as well.

You lost Lin...an all star...you lost another all star in parsons....then you lose a very good center in asik. You also lost your first round pick. Rockets were a big fail this off season. You can't deny it and they will be below the Lakers this season. MARK MY WORDS: LAKERS WILL SEED HIGHER THAN THE ROCKETS THIS SEASON. AS SHAQ WOULD SAY: TAKE A PICTURE AND PUT IN WRITING.

LeBronte Jest
Star Player

Joined: 24 Nov 2010
Posts: 1236

Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:10 am Post subject:

Jeggs wrote:

You're like that girlfriend that picks a fight with a bigger dude and then looks at her boyfriend like "What, don't you love me?"

KendrickLamar
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Joined: 07 Apr 2014
Posts: 515

Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:12 am Post subject:

LeBronte Jest wrote:

Jeggs wrote:

You're like that girlfriend that picks a fight with a bigger dude and then looks at her boyfriend like "What, don't you love me?"

The perfect analogy

ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418

Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:32 am Post subject:

Spill512 wrote:

ringfinger wrote:

Dreamshake wrote:

^^^^^

I'm referring to the Suns young players.

FWIW, Harden has improved every year.

Footwork isn't cerebral to me. Neither is using one's buttocks.

To me, cerebral is more, understanding the flow of the game. When to take over, when to involve your teammates, knowing and understanding what your team needs and providing it.

Sometimes it is an offensive play, sometimes it is a defensive play.

KobeDunk
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Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 26849

Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:52 am Post subject:

if Kobe and Nash stay healthy this team will be a 4-6 seed in west.

ppineda
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Joined: 12 Aug 2003
Posts: 701

Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:00 pm Post subject:

KobeDunk wrote:

if Kobe and Nash stay healthy this team will be a 4-6 seed in west.

If it were 2009

Dreamshake
Franchise Player

Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13711

Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:06 pm Post subject:

Jeggs wrote:

Are you referring to the NBA All-Star game? I don't think Lin, Parsons or Asik have ever been on it. Please identify which year either made the NBA All-Star team?

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