Mitch Kupchak says Lakers don't see this as another rebuilding year: 'our expectations are to win a championsh
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K0BEE 2.0
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 3:18 pm    Post subject:

LB- Any reason why the Lakers didn't aggressively pursue Stephenson when we needed a SF in the worse way?
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 3:19 pm    Post subject:

deal wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Yes Mitch should stop getting top 5-10 defensive centers and a then-top 10 pg. I understand what Mitch did and supported it. It just didn't work out.



Yep. I regret not getting anything for Howard and Pau on their way out but teams are very cautious not to help the Lakers get back on their feet. It'll work out, but some picks for those guys would have been nice to have in our pockets right now...


The rumors were that the Clippers were offering Bledsoe and Jordan for Dwight but that the Lakers were holding out for Blake instead. If there is any truth to that rumor, the Clippers seemed more than willing to help the Lakers salvage something.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 3:29 pm    Post subject:

Treble Clef wrote:
deal wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Yes Mitch should stop getting top 5-10 defensive centers and a then-top 10 pg. I understand what Mitch did and supported it. It just didn't work out.



Yep. I regret not getting anything for Howard and Pau on their way out but teams are very cautious not to help the Lakers get back on their feet. It'll work out, but some picks for those guys would have been nice to have in our pockets right now...


The rumors were that the Clippers were offering Bledsoe and Jordan for Dwight but that the Lakers were holding out for Blake instead. If there is any truth to that rumor, the Clippers seemed more than willing to help the Lakers salvage something.


Every connected guy I know of with either organization claims that that is false. It was speculation concocted by a "journalist" and put out there as a "sourced" rumor to give it legs with fans and other journalists. Laker fans have jumped on it because it fits the "they should have gotten something for him" meme that replaced the "if they had hired Phil, Howard would have stayed" as the reality of who Howard is has continued to surface.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 3:35 pm    Post subject:

K0BEE 2.0 wrote:
LB- Any reason why the Lakers didn't aggressively pursue Stephenson when we needed a SF in the worse way?


The lakers, like almost all teams, feared giving a large, long term deal to Stevenson based on his apparent personality issues. Stevenson was forced to go for a short term deal to Charlotte (with the option year being an insult to injury team option), which is very telling. He could have gotten that with LA IMO, but likely feels he'll get to do more in Charlotte.

Bottom line is that he's a very useful player, but not in the way he thinks of himself, and that conflict, along with the interpersonal issues, makes him dangerous. Overspending would have put the team not only in a hole if he imploded, but also would keep them from spending that money on true free agent value.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 3:44 pm    Post subject:

Alright let's look at these teams that are supposed to be so much better than the Lakers at the 7th and 8th spot


Let's match the Lakers up with the Pelicans, Kings, Grizzlies, Suns.
Bolded means advantage, Non bolded means they're pretty much even.

Let's take a look.

Pelicans / Lakers
Starters:
Point Guard: Jrue Holiday / Jeremy Lin
Shooting Guard: Eric Gordon / Kobe Bryant
Small Forward: Tyreke Evans / Wes Johnson
Power Forward: Anthony Davis / Carlos Boozer
Center: Omer Asik / Jordan Hill

Bench:
Point Guard: Jimmer Fredette / Steve Nash
Shooting Guard: Austin Rivers / Nick Young
Small Forward: Luke Babbit / Julius Randle
Power Forward: Ryan Anderson / Ryan Kelly
Center: Jeff Withey / Ed Davis

Starting lineup: Advantage Pelicans 2-1, 2 even
Bench lineup: Advantage Lakers 4-1


Kings / Lakers
Starters:
Point Guard: Darren Collison / Jeremy Lin
Shooting Guard: Ben Mclemore / Kobe Bryant
Small Forward: Rudy Gay / Wes Johnson
Power Forward: Derrick Williams / Carlos Boozer
Center: DeMarcus Cousins / Jordan Hill

Bench:
Point Guard: Ramon Sessions / Steve Nash
Shooting Guard: Nik Stauskas / Nick Young
Small Forward: Omri Casspi / Julius Randle
Power Forward: Jason Thompson / Ryan Kelly
Center: Ryan Hollins / Ed Davis

Starting lineup: Advantage Lakers 3-2
Bench lineup: Advantage Lakers 4-0, 1 even

Suns / Lakers
Starters:
Point Guard: Goran Dragic / Jeremy Lin
Shooting Guard: Eric Bledsoe / Kobe Bryant
Small Forward: PJ Tucker / Wes Johnson
Power Forward: Markieff Morris / Carlos Boozer
Center: Miles Plumlee / Jordan Hill

Bench:
Point Guard: Isaiah Thomas / Steve Nash
Shooting Guard: Gerald Green / Nick Young
Small Forward: TJ Warren / Julius Randle
Power Forward: Marcus Morris / Ryan Kelly
Center: Alex Len / Ed Davis

Starting lineup: Tie 1-1, 3 even
Bench lineup: Advantage Lakers 3-1, 1 even


Grizzlies / Lakers
Starters:
Point Guard: Mike Conley / Jeremy Lin
Shooting Guard: Tony Allen / Kobe Bryant
Small Forward: Quincy Pondexter / Wes Johnson
Power Forward: Zach Randolph / Carlos Boozer
Center: Marc Gasol / Jordan Hill

Bench:
Point Guard: Beno Udrih / Steve Nash
Shooting Guard: Courtney Lee / Nick Young
Small Forward: Tayshaun Prince / Julius Randle
Power Forward: Michael Beasley / Ryan Kelly
Center: Kosta Koufos / Ed Davis

Starting lineup: Advantage Grizzlies 3-1, 1 even
Bench lineup: Advantage Lakers 4-1



Just for the heck of it though let's compare to Houston

Houston / Lakers
Starters:
Point Guard: Patrick Beverley / Jeremy Lin
Shooting Guard: James Harden / Kobe Bryant
Small Forward: Trevor Ariza / Wes Johnson
Power Forward: Terrence Jones / Carlos Boozer
Center: Dwight Howard / Jordan Hill

Bench:
Point Guard: Jason Terry / Steve Nash
Shooting Guard: Nick Johnson / Nick Young
Small Forward: Troy Daniels / Julius Randle
Power Forward: Joey Dorsey / Ryan Kelly
Center: Donatas Motiejunas / Ed Davis

Starting lineup: Advantage Rockets 2-1, 2 even
Bench lineup: Advantage Lakers 4-0, 1 even


So, when you actually break it down. The Lakers talent level isn't so far from the people that will be at that range, dare I say they are even with a lot of them, even those with a stronger starting lineup the Lakers have a stronger bench and against some an overwhelmingly stronger bench.


So if you really break it down, Mitch has every right to feel that if this team is healthy they can make the playoffs or potentially do damage there. It's not far'fetched at all. The Lakers bench in particular is the reason for this.


Last edited by MJST on Sun Sep 28, 2014 3:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 3:53 pm    Post subject:

Of course potential for injuries aren't factored in here and degrees of dominance/influence. So for example Anthony Davis will be feasting on boozer but he just counts for "1".

Like saying prime Shaq only counted for "1" over rik smits even though we know he dominated that pacers team.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 3:56 pm    Post subject:

The lakers don't have the top end talent of the elite teams, but when you get below that level, so many other factors come into play. How a team meshes, effort, health, surprise guys (see dragic for Phoenix last year) playing above expectations, schemes. All of that comes into play and it becomes difficult to accurately gauge the teams looking for the last spot or two in the dance. There are always teams that rise out of nowhere, and teams that fall off, for any number of reasons.

LA needs a lot to go right for them, but there is a lot that could go right. They certainly aren't favorites for a playoff spot, but they certainly aren't terrible long shots either.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:02 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Of course potential for injuries aren't factored in here and degrees of dominance/influence. So for example Anthony Davis will be feasting on boozer but he just counts for "1".


Yes but if we wanna go on dominance/influence that's where the bench factors in

Young could feast on Rivers
Nash could feast on Fredette
Randle could feast on Babbit
Davis could feast on Withey.

and if we go by degrees of dominance/influence the Lakers also would have Kobe which can go many degrees as we've seen.

That's pretty much why Mitch factors in health when it comes to his prediction.


But even look to the Trailblazers vs the Spurs in the playoffs.

The Trailblazers starting lineup could hang or outdo the Spurs starting lineup, but the Spurs bench vs the Blazers bench always trumped them and that is why the Spurs were able to dominate that series, cause Aldridge and Lillard could have their dominant moments.. but when they were off the floor the Spurs entire bench had theirs vs Portland.

So when it comes to dominance/influence you'd need to factor into those things as well.

That's why the comparative of matchup advantages is probably as fair as you'd get right now anyway.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:10 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Of course potential for injuries aren't factored in here and degrees of dominance/influence. So for example Anthony Davis will be feasting on boozer but he just counts for "1".


Yes but if we wanna go on dominance/influence that's where the bench factors in

Young could feast on Rivers
Nash could feast on Fredette
Randle could feast on Babbit
Davis could feast on Withey.

and if we go by degrees of dominance/influence the Lakers also would have Kobe which can go many degrees as we've seen.

That's pretty much why Mitch factors in health when it comes to his prediction.


But even look to the Trailblazers vs the Spurs in the playoffs.

The Trailblazers starting lineup could hang or outdo the Spurs starting lineup, but the Spurs bench vs the Blazers bench always trumped them and that is why the Spurs were able to dominate that series, cause Aldridge and Lillard could have their dominant moments.. but when they were off the floor the Spurs entire bench had theirs vs Portland.

So when it comes to dominance/influence you'd need to factor into those things as well.

That's why the comparative of matchup advantages is probably as fair as you'd get right now anyway.


Sure if the benches always played only against each other and the starters sit out.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:13 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Alright let's look at these teams that are supposed to be so much better than the Lakers at the 7th and 8th spot


Let's match the Lakers up with the Pelicans, Kings, Grizzlies, Suns.
Bolded means advantage, Non bolded means they're pretty much even.

Let's take a look.

Pelicans / Lakers
Starters:
Point Guard: Jrue Holiday / Jeremy Lin
Shooting Guard: Eric Gordon / Kobe Bryant
Small Forward: Tyreke Evans / Wes Johnson
Power Forward: Anthony Davis / Carlos Boozer
Center: Omer Asik / Jordan Hill

Bench:
Point Guard: Jimmer Fredette / Steve Nash
Shooting Guard: Austin Rivers / Nick Young
Small Forward: Luke Babbit / Julius Randle
Power Forward: Ryan Anderson / Ryan Kelly
Center: Jeff Withey / Ed Davis

Starting lineup: Advantage Pelicans 2-1, 2 even
Bench lineup: Advantage Lakers 4-1


Kings / Lakers
Starters:
Point Guard: Darren Collison / Jeremy Lin
Shooting Guard: Ben Mclemore / Kobe Bryant
Small Forward: Rudy Gay / Wes Johnson
Power Forward: Derrick Williams / Carlos Boozer
Center: DeMarcus Cousins / Jordan Hill

Bench:
Point Guard: Ramon Sessions / Steve Nash
Shooting Guard: Nik Stauskas / Nick Young
Small Forward: Omri Casspi / Julius Randle
Power Forward: Jason Thompson / Ryan Kelly
Center: Ryan Hollins / Ed Davis

Starting lineup: Advantage Lakers 3-2
Bench lineup: Advantage Lakers 4-0, 1 even

Suns / Lakers
Starters:
Point Guard: Goran Dragic / Jeremy Lin
Shooting Guard: Eric Bledsoe / Kobe Bryant
Small Forward: PJ Tucker / Wes Johnson
Power Forward: Markieff Morris / Carlos Boozer
Center: Miles Plumlee / Jordan Hill

Bench:
Point Guard: Isaiah Thomas / Steve Nash
Shooting Guard: Gerald Green / Nick Young
Small Forward: TJ Warren / Julius Randle
Power Forward: Marcus Morris / Ryan Kelly
Center: Alex Len / Ed Davis

Starting lineup: Tie 1-1, 3 even
Bench lineup: Advantage Lakers 3-1, 1 even


Grizzlies / Lakers
Starters:
Point Guard: Mike Conley / Jeremy Lin
Shooting Guard: Tony Allen / Kobe Bryant
Small Forward: Quincy Pondexter / Wes Johnson
Power Forward: Zach Randolph / Carlos Boozer
Center: Marc Gasol / Jordan Hill

Bench:
Point Guard: Beno Udrih / Steve Nash
Shooting Guard: Courtney Lee / Nick Young
Small Forward: Tayshaun Prince / Julius Randle
Power Forward: Michael Beasley / Ryan Kelly
Center: Kosta Koufos / Ed Davis

Starting lineup: Advantage Grizzlies 3-1, 1 even
Bench lineup: Advantage Lakers 4-1



Just for the heck of it though let's compare to Houston

Houston / Lakers
Starters:
Point Guard: Patrick Beverley / Jeremy Lin
Shooting Guard: James Harden / Kobe Bryant
Small Forward: Trevor Ariza / Wes Johnson
Power Forward: Terrence Jones / Carlos Boozer
Center: Dwight Howard / Jordan Hill

Bench:
Point Guard: Jason Terry / Steve Nash
Shooting Guard: Nick Johnson / Nick Young
Small Forward: Troy Daniels / Julius Randle
Power Forward: Joey Dorsey / Ryan Kelly
Center: Donatas Motiejunas / Ed Davis

Starting lineup: Advantage Rockets 2-1, 2 even
Bench lineup: Advantage Lakers 4-0, 1 even


So, when you actually break it down. The Lakers talent level isn't so far from the people that will be at that range, dare I say they are even with a lot of them, even those with a stronger starting lineup the Lakers have a stronger bench and against some an overwhelmingly stronger bench.


So if you really break it down, Mitch has every right to feel that if this team is healthy they can make the playoffs or potentially do damage there. It's not far'fetched at all. The Lakers bench in particular is the reason for this.


Great post.... I have to say, your winning me over...

.... it comes down to the fact, like last year but arguably even more so this year, the Lakers have an exceptionally talented bench that can be very effective at wearing teams down.... the biggest problem with last years team was health issues.... It will come down to the same issue this year as well as you do realize that your match-ups depend upon a relatively healthy Laker roster... It does appear that a healthy Laker team has a better chance at making the post-season than I have previously thought thanks to your convincing breakdown....
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:30 pm    Post subject:

K0BEE 2.0 wrote:
we acquired Boozer who had take a step-back from his game because the Bulls were more focused on developing Noah/Gibson which means he should have an all-star type year.


You're in for a BIG surprise. And not the good type of ones
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:41 pm    Post subject:

To be honest, boozer is the one acquisition that puzzles me. I don't see what the value was. Slows development of the younger guys, and I don't see him being a huge factor in winning games.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:54 pm    Post subject:

Carlos was brought in to make up for the rebounding void left by Gasol's departure.

Last year Carlos grabbed just over 8 rebs in 28 minutes, Pau 9.7 rebs in 31 minutes.

The Lakers were awful in rebounding last year, especially surrendering offensive rebounds.

If someone can produce a free agent available for only 3.25 mil that rebounds as well as Carlos, I'm all ears.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:57 pm    Post subject:

Luca Brasi wrote:
Carlos was brought in to make up for the rebounding void left by Gasol's departure.

Last year Carlos grabbed just over 8 rebs in 28 minutes, Pau 9.7 rebs in 31 minutes.

The Lakers were awful in rebounding last year, especially surrendering offensive rebounds.

If someone can produce a free agent available for only 3.25 mil that rebounds as well as Carlos, I'm all ears.
that I get. I'm just not sure why you go after that when you drafted Randle, re-signed Hill and Kelly, and signed Ed Davis. Creates a crowd, and I'm not sure rebounds for a season are the reason.

My only guesses would be they don't think Randle is ready, or they like him more at three than many think.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:04 pm    Post subject:

24 wrote:
To be honest, boozer is the one acquisition that puzzles me. I don't see what the value was. Slows development of the younger guys, and I don't see him being a huge factor in winning games.


I guess veteran presence, a fall back in case Randle struggle. As I told before,Boozer is very effective when he is paired with good players/play makers like Deron and Rose(they are not even as good as Kobe). When he played with Rose in two seasons, he shot 51 fg% on 18 ppg and 53 fg% on 15 ppg. But when Rose went down, Boozer's effectiveness suffered. With the Lakers,we have Lin, Nash(if healthy), Kobe(if healthy) as good play makers. Boozer could surprise many people this upcoming season. Plus, Boozer is a good rebounder too.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:09 pm    Post subject:

24 wrote:
Luca Brasi wrote:
Carlos was brought in to make up for the rebounding void left by Gasol's departure.

Last year Carlos grabbed just over 8 rebs in 28 minutes, Pau 9.7 rebs in 31 minutes.

The Lakers were awful in rebounding last year, especially surrendering offensive rebounds.

If someone can produce a free agent available for only 3.25 mil that rebounds as well as Carlos, I'm all ears.
that I get. I'm just not sure why you go after that when you drafted Randle, re-signed Hill and Kelly, and signed Ed Davis. Creates a crowd, and I'm not sure rebounds for a season are the reason.

My only guesses would be they don't think Randle is ready, or they like him more at three than many think.


It's not that the Lakers don't think Julius can be productive, we just don't want to pin our wins and losses on him. That said, he could still very well win the starting gig.

What looks like a log jam to fans, the front office sees at an opportunity for versatility.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:12 pm    Post subject:

Luca Brasi wrote:
24 wrote:
Luca Brasi wrote:
Carlos was brought in to make up for the rebounding void left by Gasol's departure.

Last year Carlos grabbed just over 8 rebs in 28 minutes, Pau 9.7 rebs in 31 minutes.

The Lakers were awful in rebounding last year, especially surrendering offensive rebounds.

If someone can produce a free agent available for only 3.25 mil that rebounds as well as Carlos, I'm all ears.
that I get. I'm just not sure why you go after that when you drafted Randle, re-signed Hill and Kelly, and signed Ed Davis. Creates a crowd, and I'm not sure rebounds for a season are the reason.

My only guesses would be they don't think Randle is ready, or they like him more at three than many think.


It's not that the Lakers don't think Julius can be productive, we just don't want to pin our wins and losses on him. That said, he could still very well win the starting gig.

What looks like a log jam to fans, the front office sees at an opportunity for versatility.


That's cool, and I trust they have a plan, I just admit on this one I can't accurately divine it. The guy I think gets hurt most by boozer is Davis btw.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:12 pm    Post subject:

24 wrote:
Luca Brasi wrote:
Carlos was brought in to make up for the rebounding void left by Gasol's departure.

Last year Carlos grabbed just over 8 rebs in 28 minutes, Pau 9.7 rebs in 31 minutes.

The Lakers were awful in rebounding last year, especially surrendering offensive rebounds.

If someone can produce a free agent available for only 3.25 mil that rebounds as well as Carlos, I'm all ears.
that I get. I'm just not sure why you go after that when you drafted Randle, re-signed Hill and Kelly, and signed Ed Davis. Creates a crowd, and I'm not sure rebounds for a season are the reason.

My only guesses would be they don't think Randle is ready, or they like him more at three than many think.


Hill/Davis can play 4 and 5.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:14 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:

Just for the heck of it though let's compare to Houston

Houston / Lakers
Starters:
Point Guard: Patrick Beverley / Jeremy Lin
Shooting Guard: James Harden / Kobe Bryant
Small Forward: Trevor Ariza / Wes Johnson
Power Forward: Terrence Jones / Carlos Boozer
Center: Dwight Howard / Jordan Hill

Bench:
Point Guard: Jason Terry / Steve Nash
Shooting Guard: Nick Johnson / Nick Young
Small Forward: Troy Daniels / Julius Randle
Power Forward: Joey Dorsey / Ryan Kelly
Center: Donatas Motiejunas / Ed Davis

Starting lineup: Advantage Rockets 2-1, 2 even
Bench lineup: Advantage Lakers 4-0, 1 even



I have doubts that Troy Daniels will be spending much time on the court as a SF.

Troy Daniels

6'4"
205 lbs


From my POV, a somewhat comparable player in size/build and style of play for Troy would be Jodie Meeks.

Jodie Meeks

6'4"
208 lbs
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:15 pm    Post subject:

Otoh, boozer and Davis are a pretty well matched pair defensively, with boozer taking the post player and Davis taking the athlete and being the weak side shot blocker.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:26 pm    Post subject:

24 wrote:
To be honest, boozer is the one acquisition that puzzles me. I don't see what the value was. Slows development of the younger guys, and I don't see him being a huge factor in winning games.


24; getting Boozer was a great acquisition... only because it makes the younger guys work harder to earn there minutes and also.... Boozer could play a vital role in helping Hill/Davis become better low-post players... I think we got great value....... like I said I think Chicago did a poor job using Boozer during his prime years.... thankfully he is still in his prime so we should still see high level of play from him.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:48 pm    Post subject:

nevitt_smrek wrote:
This is just delusional and rather disrespectful to the other teams in the conference. I'm not so sure the team they are fielding is better than the 06 squad, and the competition is stronger now than it was back then.


They all put their pants on one leg at a time. If you believe you have lost before the fight begins, then my fellow... all is lost. Get in a punch or two, and that will get you opponent's attention then they start to doubt.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:49 pm    Post subject:

24 wrote:
The lakers don't have the top end talent of the elite teams, but when you get below that level, so many other factors come into play. How a team meshes, effort, health, surprise guys (see dragic for Phoenix last year) playing above expectations, schemes. All of that comes into play and it becomes difficult to accurately gauge the teams looking for the last spot or two in the dance. There are always teams that rise out of nowhere, and teams that fall off, for any number of reasons.

LA needs a lot to go right for them, but there is a lot that could go right. They certainly aren't favorites for a playoff spot, but they certainly aren't terrible long shots either.


I think last years Phoenix team is a good comparison for us this season.

They were 25-57 two seasons ago and were 48-34 last season which was a 23 game improvement despite trading away an above average starting C in Gortat.

Phoenix's turnaround last season was largely due to hiring a new coach, staying healthy, and having a deep team(8 players averaged at least 8 ppg).

We are just as talented as them if not more so, have good depth like them, and hired Scott who is an upgrade over D'Antoni.

If we can stay healthy I don't see why we can't make the playoffs this season even though the West is loaded with good teams.

We may not be a championship team but we are not as far away as some people think.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:51 pm    Post subject:

K0BEE 2.0 wrote:
LB- Any reason why the Lakers didn't aggressively pursue Stephenson when we needed a SF in the worse way?


Stephenson isn't a SF?
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:58 pm    Post subject:

I do think the team has certainly increased its playoff chances as compared to last season (I had us more in the 10-12 range last year) as I have them in the 8-11 range now. If things go right (namely health and Randle's development) we do have a puncher's chance at getting the 8th seed, which truly would be an amazing job by Scott and the team.
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