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Omar Little
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 Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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I have to admit being torn. Part of me wants Nash and Boozer to regain some ofteir old form and the team to win a lot more than predicted. But another part of me wants Randle, Clarkson, Kelly, Davis, Hill, and Lin to get the most opportunity. Even at the cost of wins.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | I have to admit being torn. Part of me wants Nash and Boozer to regain some ofteir old form and the team to win a lot more than predicted. But another part of me wants Randle, Clarkson, Kelly, Davis, Hill, and Lin to get the most opportunity. Even at the cost of wins. |
Health permitting it seems the FO would rather shoot for the playoffs rather than tank to the bottom 2 (especially after we found out we suck at tanking, which isn't the worst thing).
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | I have to admit being torn. Part of me wants Nash and Boozer to regain some ofteir old form and the team to win a lot more than predicted. But another part of me wants Randle, Clarkson, Kelly, Davis, Hill, and Lin to get the most opportunity. Even at the cost of wins. |
Health permitting it seems the FO would rather shoot for the playoffs rather than tank to the bottom 2 (especially after we found out we suck at tanking, which isn't the worst thing). |
Im cool with trying to win, same as last year. I just want to do it with guys who either have futures for us, or are useful as trade assets.
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Gimme_the_rock
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Location: Looking outta the window, watching the asphalt grow ...
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | I have to admit being torn. Part of me wants Nash and Boozer to regain some ofteir old form and the team to win a lot more than predicted. But another part of me wants Randle, Clarkson, Kelly, Davis, Hill, and Lin to get the most opportunity. Even at the cost of wins. |
I'll take a bit of both, please.
Lightning in a bottle? Maybe. But a mix of vets and promising youngsters can sometimes find that surprising blend, chemistry-wise.
A lot of that is on Byron.
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MJST
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:26 am Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | I have to admit being torn. Part of me wants Nash and Boozer to regain some ofteir old form and the team to win a lot more than predicted. But another part of me wants Randle, Clarkson, Kelly, Davis, Hill, and Lin to get the most opportunity. Even at the cost of wins. |
I think Randle will get minutes, and as good as we feel he is would be starting sooner rather than later.
Clarkson I think will get a lot of minutes when Nash sits on the back to backs. |
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StatCoach
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | I have to admit being torn. Part of me wants Nash and Boozer to regain some ofteir old form and the team to win a lot more than predicted. But another part of me wants Randle, Clarkson, Kelly, Davis, Hill, and Lin to get the most opportunity. Even at the cost of wins. |
I hear what your saying, but would love to see this team exceed expectations. I've been impressed with what I've heard from coach Scott thus far and feel that we will be much more balanced this year in terms of playing both sides of the ball and more balanced in our approach offensively as well. I think this team is full of players that deserve time and that will be one of Scott's challenges. However, since he has said that he is trying to manage minutes for a few of his players, it might take care of itself. |
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Druggas
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | It's the company line. He has to say it. |
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gumby
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:24 am Post subject: |
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I am not part of team tank part deux, but I feel it would be harder if everyone stays relatively healthy to "tank" into the first five lottery slots. Both extremes of lottery and playoffs will be hard to get.
I just wonder which one would be more difficult?
Bye.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| gumby wrote: | I am not part of team tank part deux, but I feel it would be harder if everyone stays relatively healthy to "tank" into the first five lottery slots. Both extremes of lottery and playoffs will be hard to get.
I just wonder which one would be more difficult?
Bye. |
Tanking into a top 1 or 2 worst record (hate these contradicting terms) is exceedingly difficult, especially when teams like the 76ers are unabashedly doing it.
I think playoffs is easier than worst 2 records.
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MJST
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| LA_Lakers_Rule wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Alright let's look at these teams that are supposed to be so much better than the Lakers at the 7th and 8th spot
Let's match the Lakers up with the Pelicans, Kings, Grizzlies, Suns.
Bolded means advantage, Non bolded means they're pretty much even.
Let's take a look.
Pelicans / Lakers
Starters:
Point Guard: Jrue Holiday / Jeremy Lin
Shooting Guard: Eric Gordon / Kobe Bryant
Small Forward: Tyreke Evans / Wes Johnson
Power Forward: Anthony Davis / Carlos Boozer
Center: Omer Asik / Jordan Hill
Bench:
Point Guard: Jimmer Fredette / Steve Nash
Shooting Guard: Austin Rivers / Nick Young
Small Forward: Luke Babbit / Julius Randle
Power Forward: Ryan Anderson / Ryan Kelly
Center: Jeff Withey / Ed Davis
Starting lineup: Advantage Pelicans 2-1, 2 even
Bench lineup: Advantage Lakers 4-1
Kings / Lakers
Starters:
Point Guard: Darren Collison / Jeremy Lin
Shooting Guard: Ben Mclemore / Kobe Bryant
Small Forward: Rudy Gay / Wes Johnson
Power Forward: Derrick Williams / Carlos Boozer
Center: DeMarcus Cousins / Jordan Hill
Bench:
Point Guard: Ramon Sessions / Steve Nash
Shooting Guard: Nik Stauskas / Nick Young
Small Forward: Omri Casspi / Julius Randle
Power Forward: Jason Thompson / Ryan Kelly
Center: Ryan Hollins / Ed Davis
Starting lineup: Advantage Lakers 3-2
Bench lineup: Advantage Lakers 4-0, 1 even
Suns / Lakers
Starters:
Point Guard: Goran Dragic / Jeremy Lin
Shooting Guard: Eric Bledsoe / Kobe Bryant
Small Forward: PJ Tucker / Wes Johnson
Power Forward: Markieff Morris / Carlos Boozer
Center: Miles Plumlee / Jordan Hill
Bench:
Point Guard: Isaiah Thomas / Steve Nash
Shooting Guard: Gerald Green / Nick Young
Small Forward: TJ Warren / Julius Randle
Power Forward: Marcus Morris / Ryan Kelly
Center: Alex Len / Ed Davis
Starting lineup: Tie 1-1, 3 even
Bench lineup: Advantage Lakers 3-1, 1 even
Grizzlies / Lakers
Starters:
Point Guard: Mike Conley / Jeremy Lin
Shooting Guard: Tony Allen / Kobe Bryant
Small Forward: Quincy Pondexter / Wes Johnson
Power Forward: Zach Randolph / Carlos Boozer
Center: Marc Gasol / Jordan Hill
Bench:
Point Guard: Beno Udrih / Steve Nash
Shooting Guard: Courtney Lee / Nick Young
Small Forward: Tayshaun Prince / Julius Randle
Power Forward: Michael Beasley / Ryan Kelly
Center: Kosta Koufos / Ed Davis
Starting lineup: Advantage Grizzlies 3-1, 1 even
Bench lineup: Advantage Lakers 4-1
Just for the heck of it though let's compare to Houston
Houston / Lakers
Starters:
Point Guard: Patrick Beverley / Jeremy Lin
Shooting Guard: James Harden / Kobe Bryant
Small Forward: Trevor Ariza / Wes Johnson
Power Forward: Terrence Jones / Carlos Boozer
Center: Dwight Howard / Jordan Hill
Bench:
Point Guard: Jason Terry / Steve Nash
Shooting Guard: Nick Johnson / Nick Young
Small Forward: Troy Daniels / Julius Randle
Power Forward: Joey Dorsey / Ryan Kelly
Center: Donatas Motiejunas / Ed Davis
Starting lineup: Advantage Rockets 2-1, 2 even
Bench lineup: Advantage Lakers 4-0, 1 even
So, when you actually break it down. The Lakers talent level isn't so far from the people that will be at that range, dare I say they are even with a lot of them, even those with a stronger starting lineup the Lakers have a stronger bench and against some an overwhelmingly stronger bench.
So if you really break it down, Mitch has every right to feel that if this team is healthy they can make the playoffs or potentially do damage there. It's not far'fetched at all. The Lakers bench in particular is the reason for this. |
Great post.... I have to say, your winning me over... 
.... it comes down to the fact, like last year but arguably even more so this year, the Lakers have an exceptionally talented bench that can be very effective at wearing teams down.... the biggest problem with last years team was health issues.... It will come down to the same issue this year as well as you do realize that your match-ups depend upon a relatively healthy Laker roster... It does appear that a healthy Laker team has a better chance at making the post-season than I have previously thought thanks to your convincing breakdown.... |
No problem  health is gonna be a big factor because our team is built to be a spoiler with a deep bench. If we're healthy we should make the playoffs. If not then we most likely won't.
The best case scenario for us is to make the playoffs at 8 or 7 and Houston being 8th or 7th as well.
Why? Because that would mean that our pick that goes to Phoenix would virtually be in the same place that our pick from Houston would be so it wouldn't seem like such a big deal anymore.
Worst case would be us going to the bottom of the lottery again and getting the 6th or 7th pick which Phoenix would attain. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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^ Sorry, but those kinds of player comparisons are lazy and inaccurate. If you do it that way for the dynasty Lakers, our starters would lose out to most teams since in many cases, we're going to lose in 3 of 5 positions (PG, SF, PF). Most teams had a better point guard than Derek, small forward than Devean George and PF than Robert Horry.
Just an absolutely horrible way to compare teams. Sorry, not trying to be mean but it makes no sense to do it that way unless you're just trying to do a quick and dirty 10 second compare. |
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Staccatos
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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Odd that Kupchak on one hand says "our expectations are to win a championship" and then says this quote about Julius Randle:
"Julius is still 19 years old," Kupchak said. "You wouldn't know that by looking at him, because he's really a well-developed, big, strong, athletic kid. Over the years, I've never looked at a rookie and said, 'Hey, this guy's gonna bring us to the top.' It doesn't do any good to have high expectations."
http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/lakersnow/la-sp-ln-mitch-kupchak-julius-randle-20140926-story.html?track=rss
Kupchak seems to be throwing that word around a lot lately. Hope he knows what it means. |
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Rivershow
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | I have to admit being torn. Part of me wants Nash and Boozer to regain some ofteir old form and the team to win a lot more than predicted. But another part of me wants Randle, Clarkson, Kelly, Davis, Hill, and Lin to get the most opportunity. Even at the cost of wins. |
Those players you listed can very much replace the production of former nash and boozer if you combine them together. I don't see why they couldn't if given the minutes and if they live up to expectations. So it's not necessarily a zero sum game in which we lose production by giving those younger players heavy minutes if they you know actually produce. |
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dabask11
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | Alright let's look at these teams that are supposed to be so much better than the Lakers at the 7th and 8th spot
Let's match the Lakers up with the Pelicans, Kings, Grizzlies, Suns.
Bolded means advantage, Non bolded means they're pretty much even.
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You forgot denver in the mix:
Nuggets/Lakers
Starters:
Point Guard: Ty Lawson/ Jeremy Lin
Shooting Guard: Aaron Afflalo/ Kobe Bryant
Small Forward: Danillo Gallinari / Wes Johnson
Power Forward: Kenneth faried / Carlos Boozer
Center: Javale McGee/ Jordan Hill
Starting Lineup: Tie 2-2, 1 even
Bench:
Point Guard: Nate Robinson/Steve Nash
Shooting Guard: Gary harris/ Nick Young
Small Forward: Wilson Chandler / Julius Randle
Power Forward: JJ Hickson/ Ryan Kelly
Center: Timofey Mozgov / Ed Davis
Bench: Advantage Denver 3-1, 1 even
Guess that mean we're competing for 1 less spot. But that's besides the point: such a method is too simplistic to make any definitive statements. Regular season is about the grind more than the matchups.
If we use such logic, our starting lineup and bench were better than miami's last season. Yet the heat were the better team given by their record. |
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Luca Brasi
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | I have to admit being torn. Part of me wants Nash and Boozer to regain some ofteir old form and the team to win a lot more than predicted. But another part of me wants Randle, Clarkson, Kelly, Davis, Hill, and Lin to get the most opportunity. Even at the cost of wins. |
"I know it was you, Fredo. You broke my heart."
Not gonna lie, given the poster, this one hurts. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Staccatos wrote: | Odd that Kupchak on one hand says "our expectations are to win a championship" and then says this quote about Julius Randle:
"Julius is still 19 years old," Kupchak said. "You wouldn't know that by looking at him, because he's really a well-developed, big, strong, athletic kid. Over the years, I've never looked at a rookie and said, 'Hey, this guy's gonna bring us to the top.' It doesn't do any good to have high expectations."
http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/lakersnow/la-sp-ln-mitch-kupchak-julius-randle-20140926-story.html?track=rss
Kupchak seems to be throwing that word around a lot lately. Hope he knows what it means. |
I agree with Mitch, we shouldn't have expectations that Randle will lead the team to the top this season.
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mhan00
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| diando wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | Setting the expectations unreasonably high is not going to work out well for Jim, Mitch and Baron. I remember last year some posters were expecting to win 50 games, and even tormenting posters who expected to only 38. |
Could have happened if Kobe was playing and the injury bug didn't plague the whole team. |
The worst was Kobe snapping his Achilles when he was playing his best basketball in three years. Us missing a top five player in Kobe and the Spurs regaining Manu Ginobili was the difference between us beating them in the regular season and getting swept in the first round. We could have pushed them to at least six, maybe stolen it in seven, and history could have changed. |
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Rivershow
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Joined: 09 Dec 2011
Posts: 6731
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Staccatos wrote: | Odd that Kupchak on one hand says "our expectations are to win a championship" and then says this quote about Julius Randle:
"Julius is still 19 years old," Kupchak said. "You wouldn't know that by looking at him, because he's really a well-developed, big, strong, athletic kid. Over the years, I've never looked at a rookie and said, 'Hey, this guy's gonna bring us to the top.' It doesn't do any good to have high expectations."
http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/lakersnow/la-sp-ln-mitch-kupchak-julius-randle-20140926-story.html?track=rss
Kupchak seems to be throwing that word around a lot lately. Hope he knows what it means. |
I agree with Mitch, we shouldn't have expectations that Randle will lead the team to the top this season. |
I don't have expectations that Randle will lead us to the top but I do have expectations that Randle will contribute for what he was worth as a lottery pick and the potential he has shown in summer league. Basically I am not focusing on him particularly but his production as a part of the pie that the lakers team needs to be competitive this season. And that is what I expect from Randle. |
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The Shadow King
Star Player
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Posts: 4363
Location: Dallas, Texas
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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Expletive deleted.
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ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Rivershow wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Staccatos wrote: | Odd that Kupchak on one hand says "our expectations are to win a championship" and then says this quote about Julius Randle:
"Julius is still 19 years old," Kupchak said. "You wouldn't know that by looking at him, because he's really a well-developed, big, strong, athletic kid. Over the years, I've never looked at a rookie and said, 'Hey, this guy's gonna bring us to the top.' It doesn't do any good to have high expectations."
http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/lakersnow/la-sp-ln-mitch-kupchak-julius-randle-20140926-story.html?track=rss
Kupchak seems to be throwing that word around a lot lately. Hope he knows what it means. |
I agree with Mitch, we shouldn't have expectations that Randle will lead the team to the top this season. |
I don't have expectations that Randle will lead us to the top but I do have expectations that Randle will contribute for what he was worth as a lottery pick and the potential he has shown in summer league. Basically I am not focusing on him particularly but his production as a part of the pie that the lakers team needs to be competitive this season. And that is what I expect from Randle. |
So around 11/9 or so? |
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Omar Little
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Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90306
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Luca Brasi wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | I have to admit being torn. Part of me wants Nash and Boozer to regain some ofteir old form and the team to win a lot more than predicted. But another part of me wants Randle, Clarkson, Kelly, Davis, Hill, and Lin to get the most opportunity. Even at the cost of wins. |
"I know it was you, Fredo. You broke my heart."
Not gonna lie, given the poster, this one hurts. |
How so? I'd love to have both, but I'd rather the guys who are going to be assets going forward to emerge and shine.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Rivershow
Star Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2011
Posts: 6731
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Rivershow wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Staccatos wrote: | Odd that Kupchak on one hand says "our expectations are to win a championship" and then says this quote about Julius Randle:
"Julius is still 19 years old," Kupchak said. "You wouldn't know that by looking at him, because he's really a well-developed, big, strong, athletic kid. Over the years, I've never looked at a rookie and said, 'Hey, this guy's gonna bring us to the top.' It doesn't do any good to have high expectations."
http://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/lakersnow/la-sp-ln-mitch-kupchak-julius-randle-20140926-story.html?track=rss
Kupchak seems to be throwing that word around a lot lately. Hope he knows what it means. |
I agree with Mitch, we shouldn't have expectations that Randle will lead the team to the top this season. |
I don't have expectations that Randle will lead us to the top but I do have expectations that Randle will contribute for what he was worth as a lottery pick and the potential he has shown in summer league. Basically I am not focusing on him particularly but his production as a part of the pie that the lakers team needs to be competitive this season. And that is what I expect from Randle. |
So around 11/9 or so? |
Depends on the minutes he gets. If he is around 25-28 minutes then around 13-15ppg/7-9rpg |
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Luca Brasi
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Posts: 4207
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | Luca Brasi wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | I have to admit being torn. Part of me wants Nash and Boozer to regain some ofteir old form and the team to win a lot more than predicted. But another part of me wants Randle, Clarkson, Kelly, Davis, Hill, and Lin to get the most opportunity. Even at the cost of wins. |
"I know it was you, Fredo. You broke my heart."
Not gonna lie, given the poster, this one hurts. |
How so? I'd love to have both, but I'd rather the guys who are going to be assets going forward to emerge and shine. |
"Nothing's gained from losing, except losses." ~ DJB
If we want to be serious players in the free agent market this summer, we need to win as many games as possible.
If we want to land the biggest fish in 2016 we need to secure a big fish in 2015. |
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Omar Little
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Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90306
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Luca Brasi wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | Luca Brasi wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | I have to admit being torn. Part of me wants Nash and Boozer to regain some ofteir old form and the team to win a lot more than predicted. But another part of me wants Randle, Clarkson, Kelly, Davis, Hill, and Lin to get the most opportunity. Even at the cost of wins. |
"I know it was you, Fredo. You broke my heart."
Not gonna lie, given the poster, this one hurts. |
How so? I'd love to have both, but I'd rather the guys who are going to be assets going forward to emerge and shine. |
"Nothing's gained from losing, except losses." ~ DJB
If we want to be serious players in the free agent market this summer, we need to win as many games as possible.
If we want to land the biggest fish in 2016 we need to secure a big fish in 2015. |
OK. I got ya. And that's why I'm torn. Because, yes we need the wins to attract big fish, but we also need our youngsters to take a step forward. My dream is that Randle forces Boozer to the bench and we win a lot with the youngsters and a rejuvenated Kobe.
Fwiw, the guys I have pegged for a step forward are Wes, Lin, and Hill. I think all three are going to have good years.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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BTW, I meant a few wins here and there, not that I'd rather play the kids and lose like last year. But a few wins vs some real impact for the young guys?
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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