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ringfinger
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 Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| ^ If they were unrealistic options to begin with, then the Lakers get penalized for wasting their own money, time and energy pursuing them to begin with. |
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onthafarm
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Joined: 25 Sep 2014
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | ^ If they were unrealistic options to begin with, then the Lakers get penalized for wasting their own money, time and energy pursuing them to begin with. |
we can always look at the cup half empty...moses coulda turned that staff into a dragon instead of a snake. if there was a 1% chance at getting them, that 1% is still worth pursuing. it didnt change anything. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| onthafarm wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | ^ If they were unrealistic options to begin with, then the Lakers get penalized for wasting their own money, time and energy pursuing them to begin with. |
we can always look at the cup half empty...moses coulda turned that staff into a dragon instead of a snake. if there was a 1% chance at getting them, that 1% is still worth pursuing. it didnt change anything. |
If you don't mind losing out on other players like Lowry and Parsons, I guess. The PR stunt that was Melo had them sifting through scraps at the end. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| onthafarm wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | ^ If they were unrealistic options to begin with, then the Lakers get penalized for wasting their own money, time and energy pursuing them to begin with. |
we can always look at the cup half empty...moses coulda turned that staff into a dragon instead of a snake. if there was a 1% chance at getting them, that 1% is still worth pursuing. it didnt change anything. |
A cup that is half full is also half empty. That's how I look at it. If it's true that the chance of landing Melo was 1% or 'unrealistic' as you claim, then was it smart to spend the time to pitch him, put together an offer and then wait for his response while other players were being signed?
Here's reality. We had a shot at Melo. Just didn't land him. |
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onthafarm
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Joined: 25 Sep 2014
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | onthafarm wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | ^ If they were unrealistic options to begin with, then the Lakers get penalized for wasting their own money, time and energy pursuing them to begin with. |
we can always look at the cup half empty...moses coulda turned that staff into a dragon instead of a snake. if there was a 1% chance at getting them, that 1% is still worth pursuing. it didnt change anything. |
If you don't mind losing out on other players like Lowry and Parsons, I guess. The PR stunt that was Melo had them sifting through scraps at the end. |
do you really think those guys are worth near-max contracts? because thats what they ended up doing....i rather take boozer @ the 3 million price tag than any of the borderline all-stars who wanted superstar money. |
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onthafarm
Sixth Man
Joined: 25 Sep 2014
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | onthafarm wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | ^ If they were unrealistic options to begin with, then the Lakers get penalized for wasting their own money, time and energy pursuing them to begin with. |
we can always look at the cup half empty...moses coulda turned that staff into a dragon instead of a snake. if there was a 1% chance at getting them, that 1% is still worth pursuing. it didnt change anything. |
A cup that is half full is also half empty. |
thats too bad, fam |
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TooMuchMajicBuss
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:09 am Post subject: |
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I'm glad Carmelo stuck to his hometown, he's another past-his-prime high dollar player who would have faded away by the time we sniff any title matches. For that matter, and Pau was DONE as a Laker. Stop crying about him. Let him rejuvinate his career elsewhere.
I think not having either on the team actually raises the grade. Lakers need to focus on getting a young core together, and take their time on getting the next high dollar superstar. Don't settle for overpriced crap that either can't or won't play defense just to make impatient people happy.
Lakers are under the cap, and they've pulled in some pretty decent pieces at good prices to take on new roles, and they're positioned quite well to keep looking for a superstar that we can actually build around.
Nice analysis DennisD. Lakers get an A. |
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Voices
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Location: Oxnard, Ca.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| lukewaltonsdad wrote: | | Voices wrote: | Giving the Lakers an A is a homer view. Drafting Randle was a no brainer going after Boozer was a no brainer and required no giving up of players. In order to pick up players on waivers you have to have a poor record which the Lakers had, so giving management credit for Boozer is not correct.
I do give management credit for not paying Gasol big bucks, Boozer and Gasol stats are almost identical, except Boozer does not require pampering like Gasol.
Hiring Scott was also a no brainer, he was the safe bet, management will not be criticize as much if Scott fails to produce a competitive team.
Drafting Clarkson by buying the 46th pick required Lakers management to give up nothing, it remains to be seen if he pans out, if not, it's not a big deal. I know some think he should of been a 1st round pick, again, remains to be seen if he does pan out, it will be the best move by management because he is a young player.
I would give Lakers management a B |
Agreed. If Clarkson does pan out, (which we won't know for a couple of years at least) then this off-season would go up to an A for me; also, considering how we use that 1st round pick of Houston is still yet to be determined.
Overall, though, a good job by the FO, IMO...I think we'll be competitive on most nights, play hard, and while the wins and losses might not be there, we'll have at least have the flexibility moving forward to draft improve the team by the trade deadline this year if an opportunity comes up, be drafting next summer with Houston's pick, and have cap space to add an impact FA. |
Yea, the 1st round pick from Houston is extremely valuable, although Houston will probably finish with a decent record so the pick will probably be between 20 and 25 I will take that pick unless some very good player is available and the Lakers are contenders.
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ALTHOUGH HE STANDS 6 FEET 2 INCHES, JIM BUSS ATTENDED JOCKEY SCHOOL WHEN HE WAS 20. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| onthafarm wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | onthafarm wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | ^ If they were unrealistic options to begin with, then the Lakers get penalized for wasting their own money, time and energy pursuing them to begin with. |
we can always look at the cup half empty...moses coulda turned that staff into a dragon instead of a snake. if there was a 1% chance at getting them, that 1% is still worth pursuing. it didnt change anything. |
If you don't mind losing out on other players like Lowry and Parsons, I guess. The PR stunt that was Melo had them sifting through scraps at the end. |
do you really think those guys are worth near-max contracts? because thats what they ended up doing....i rather take boozer @ the 3 million price tag than any of the borderline all-stars who wanted superstar money. |
Lowry is a bargain at $11 mil if you look at his WAR. Parsons, based on previous production, would be overpaid, but that's a price you pay for any good young player. It's exactly how the Rockets were able to get Harden.
Also during the Melo waiting game we let Meeks walk and actually commit more years to the one-dimensional Swag machine. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | onthafarm wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | ^ If they were unrealistic options to begin with, then the Lakers get penalized for wasting their own money, time and energy pursuing them to begin with. |
we can always look at the cup half empty...moses coulda turned that staff into a dragon instead of a snake. if there was a 1% chance at getting them, that 1% is still worth pursuing. it didnt change anything. |
A cup that is half full is also half empty. That's how I look at it. If it's true that the chance of landing Melo was 1% or 'unrealistic' as you claim, then was it smart to spend the time to pitch him, put together an offer and then wait for his response while other players were being signed?
Here's reality. We had a shot at Melo. Just didn't land him. |
The thing is, you or I don't know if it was one percent or more, but it was a shot, and I agree with laker management going after impact stars, even melo. I wanted Lowry too, but LA didn't lose out on him or Parsons (who got overpaid imo by an owner who is willing to overpay to put a good team that won't ever win it all out there) because they were pitching melo and lbj. Even if they had, probably still the thing to do. But parsons was on his way to Dallas the whole time, and Lowry only briefly considered leaving Toronto, and then only possibly to join the big three in Miami.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | onthafarm wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | onthafarm wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | ^ If they were unrealistic options to begin with, then the Lakers get penalized for wasting their own money, time and energy pursuing them to begin with. |
we can always look at the cup half empty...moses coulda turned that staff into a dragon instead of a snake. if there was a 1% chance at getting them, that 1% is still worth pursuing. it didnt change anything. |
If you don't mind losing out on other players like Lowry and Parsons, I guess. The PR stunt that was Melo had them sifting through scraps at the end. |
do you really think those guys are worth near-max contracts? because thats what they ended up doing....i rather take boozer @ the 3 million price tag than any of the borderline all-stars who wanted superstar money. |
Lowry is a bargain at $11 mil if you look at his WAR. Parsons, based on previous production, would be overpaid, but that's a price you pay for any good young player. It's exactly how the Rockets were able to get Harden.
Also during the Melo waiting game we let Meeks walk and actually commit more years to the one-dimensional Swag machine. |
I agree on Lowry being worth the money, although WAR is kind of a worthless stat since there really isn't any actual formula to create it.
Fwiw, I think they picked the right guy to give a sub mid ,even contract to. Loves la, great in the locker room, microwave off the bench, scorer if you have an injury to your starters. Meeks got overpaid.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | onthafarm wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | onthafarm wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | ^ If they were unrealistic options to begin with, then the Lakers get penalized for wasting their own money, time and energy pursuing them to begin with. |
we can always look at the cup half empty...moses coulda turned that staff into a dragon instead of a snake. if there was a 1% chance at getting them, that 1% is still worth pursuing. it didnt change anything. |
If you don't mind losing out on other players like Lowry and Parsons, I guess. The PR stunt that was Melo had them sifting through scraps at the end. |
do you really think those guys are worth near-max contracts? because thats what they ended up doing....i rather take boozer @ the 3 million price tag than any of the borderline all-stars who wanted superstar money. |
Lowry is a bargain at $11 mil if you look at his WAR. Parsons, based on previous production, would be overpaid, but that's a price you pay for any good young player. It's exactly how the Rockets were able to get Harden.
Also during the Melo waiting game we let Meeks walk and actually commit more years to the one-dimensional Swag machine. |
I agree on Lowry being worth the money, although WAR is kind of a worthless stat since there really isn't any actual formula to create it.
Fwiw, I think they picked the right guy to give a sub mid ,even contract to. Loves la, great in the locker room, microwave off the bench, scorer if you have an injury to your starters. Meeks got overpaid. |
I liked meeks but i take young too. Need that guy who really wants to be here.
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Steve007
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think the Clippers bench got much weaker like the OP suggests. Dudley,Granger and Hollins are all bad players that are no longer on the team. They basically replaced Collison with Farmar and added a backup center that's basically the opposite of DeAndre Jordan (the things that Jordan does poorly are all things he does well and the things that Jordan does well, he does poorly). They got worse at PG and improved at center. That team needs a good athletic player on the wings like Ariza but they weren't going to pick up a player like him.
I laughed at the Rockets getting an F because I agree with that. I think that team got worse.
I also laughed at the Lakers getting an A when I first saw that grade, but I guess I sort of understand why you gave out that grade after reading what you wrote down. |
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DSF_27
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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You couldnt be more biased with that Lakers write up.
Every other team was given a simple summary such as "missed playoffs, lost first round etc." The Lakers get "a rebuilding team with aging stars that were ravaged by injuries".
Well since Kobe, Nash and Boozer are still old they'll probably be "ravaged" by injuries again.
Lakers goals should have been:
1) Get Nash to retire - Failed
2) Get a good draft pick - Success
3) Get another superstar (Carmelo, Lebron, Love etc) to come play with Kobe - Failed
4) Re-sign Gasol for cheap or do a sign-and-trade to get something back - Failed
5) Get a defensive, athletic point guard who can play off Kobe and not need the ball to be successful - Failed
6) Dont take on any bad contracts - Success
7) Hire a new head coach - Success
All in all it was a pretty weak off-season for the Lakers, |
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DSF_27
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Minnesota probably had the best off-season. They couldnt have gotten anything better for Love. Even if Love DIDNT want out I think they make that trade. |
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Treble Clef
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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I like the detail and effort but the grading system is way off in my opinion and I also think an awful lot of spin was used on the Lakers writeup. The Lakers were NOT rebuilding. They purposely set up their contracts to be able to buy a championship roster this offseason and they missed on all of the big targets. LeBron, Love, Irving, Wade, Bosh, Carmelo, George, Bledsoe, Lowry, etc will not be Lakers anytime soon. If they get an A by missing out on all of their targets, what grade would they have received had they actually landed one or more of them?
The consolation prize is that they filled their roster with short term deals and they get a do-over for the free agent marker next year or the year after. Other than Randle and Clarkson, the players on this team are not part of the future. They are space fillers for the present and that is OK. As many have said, it's better to wait for a guy that is really worth it than to give a long term deal to someone who doesn't.
Teams like Portland and Denver did little to nothing this offseason and got nice grades yet teams like Dallas who I thought did well is sitting on an incomplete that is leaning toward an F. I cant find much consistency in the grading. I think the Lakers are the team that most earned an incomplete. They got a couple draft picks that might become something but most of their work is yet to be seen. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know quite what you mean by WARP not having an actual formula. It does tend to favor point guards, I'll admit.
http://i.imgur.com/KaMmLCk.jpg [screenshot of the article]
Lowry is right behind Harden. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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I know it has a formula, but that formula is not empirically able to tell us how many wins above a replacement player any particular player provides. It produces a number, but that number could be off by an unknown amount, because it measures and quantifies stats, not winning.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | And Pau? Really? "Punch me in the chest because I'm not even here for Phil, you tried to trade me, I quit, you made Howard the main post guy so I'm done, oh now I'm the main post guy, sorry, I don't want it" Pau? |
Yet, the Lakers FO offered Pau 2 contracts. One was a 3 year deal 27 M range, the other 20 M 2 year deal. Fail to see how offering him that contract means they share any of your opinion on him or that they didn't want to see him go. If anything it shows they badly wanted to keep him, but Pau wanted to move on. That is a loss on the Laker end. They lost yet another key piece for nothing. |
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | And Pau? Really? "Punch me in the chest because I'm not even here for Phil, you tried to trade me, I quit, you made Howard the main post guy so I'm done, oh now I'm the main post guy, sorry, I don't want it" Pau? |
Yet, the Lakers FO offered Pau 2 contracts. One was a 3 year deal 27 M range, the other 20 M 2 year deal. Fail to see how offering him that contract means they share any of your opinion on him or that they didn't want to see him go. If anything it shows they badly wanted to keep him, but Pau wanted to move on. That is a loss on the Laker end. They lost yet another key piece for nothing. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | ^ If they were unrealistic options to begin with, then the Lakers get penalized for wasting their own money, time and energy pursuing them to begin with. |
Right because it cost them............ nothing.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | onthafarm wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | ^ If they were unrealistic options to begin with, then the Lakers get penalized for wasting their own money, time and energy pursuing them to begin with. |
we can always look at the cup half empty...moses coulda turned that staff into a dragon instead of a snake. if there was a 1% chance at getting them, that 1% is still worth pursuing. it didnt change anything. |
If you don't mind losing out on other players like Lowry and Parsons, I guess. The PR stunt that was Melo had them sifting through scraps at the end. |
They talked to Lowry and seemed to have no interest in Parsons. So, no.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | And Pau? Really? "Punch me in the chest because I'm not even here for Phil, you tried to trade me, I quit, you made Howard the main post guy so I'm done, oh now I'm the main post guy, sorry, I don't want it" Pau? |
Yet, the Lakers FO offered Pau 2 contracts. One was a 3 year deal 27 M range, the other 20 M 2 year deal. Fail to see how offering him that contract means they share any of your opinion on him or that they didn't want to see him go. If anything it shows they badly wanted to keep him, but Pau wanted to move on. That is a loss on the Laker end. They lost yet another key piece for nothing. |
They offered Pau the Hill contract. When he declined, they gave it to Hill. They wanted that big short term.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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Iirc when lakers stood pat last summer (lost Dwight) there were similar assurances that we had a master plan for 2014 and tremendous cap space ergo the widespread excitement. So I hope we fare better next summer. I understand punting for next summer but we have to hit at some point if we keep the superstar or bust free agency strategy.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | And Pau? Really? "Punch me in the chest because I'm not even here for Phil, you tried to trade me, I quit, you made Howard the main post guy so I'm done, oh now I'm the main post guy, sorry, I don't want it" Pau? |
Yet, the Lakers FO offered Pau 2 contracts. One was a 3 year deal 27 M range, the other 20 M 2 year deal. Fail to see how offering him that contract means they share any of your opinion on him or that they didn't want to see him go. If anything it shows they badly wanted to keep him, but Pau wanted to move on. That is a loss on the Laker end. They lost yet another key piece for nothing. |
I don't think or espouse that the Lakers didn't want him. They had pretty good loyalty to him (trading him for a no brainer superstar notwithstanding), although they wanted him at a serious discount. I think Mitch always had faith that he'd come around. But he went where he thinks he has a better shot to win, which is OK, but not going to change much about the Lakers short term prospects.
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