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yinoma2001
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 Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:08 am Post subject: |
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Damn, Clev. looked good last night. Going to be a tough team to beat
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| Voices wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Of course he would have. Going for a 4 peat is historical. |
Understatement! Of course James would have stayed in Miami, that would have meant that Miami still had IT.
The bottom lone is CLE has IT, more talent than Miami and has a much better chance of winning a championship. It's a great move for James! I like CLE better than Chicago to represent the East. |
The Cavs don't have more talent than Miami would have had with him, or a better chance of winning the title this season. The Cavs do have the potential to have a better core long-term. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:35 am Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: | | Voices wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Of course he would have. Going for a 4 peat is historical. |
Understatement! Of course James would have stayed in Miami, that would have meant that Miami still had IT.
The bottom lone is CLE has IT, more talent than Miami and has a much better chance of winning a championship. It's a great move for James! I like CLE better than Chicago to represent the East. |
The Cavs don't have more talent than Miami would have had with him, or a better chance of winning the title this season. The Cavs do have the potential to have a better core long-term. |
That appears to have been LBJ's calculation. Stay with a core of Wade/Bosh (former who is declining) for 3 years or establish a new baseline with younger players?
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activeverb
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:57 am Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: |
The Cavs don't have more talent than Miami would have had with him, or a better chance of winning the title this season. . |
That's hard to judge. It depends a lot on how much Wade continues to slide.
The Heat was filled with a lot of old talent on its way down, while the Cavs have a lot of young talent on its way up. Difficult to say at which point the two trajectories would have passed, but we'll never know now. |
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Voices
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Location: Oxnard, Ca.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: | | Voices wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Of course he would have. Going for a 4 peat is historical. |
Understatement! Of course James would have stayed in Miami, that would have meant that Miami still had IT.
The bottom lone is CLE has IT, more talent than Miami and has a much better chance of winning a championship. It's a great move for James! I like CLE better than Chicago to represent the East. |
The Cavs don't have more talent than Miami would have had with him, or a better chance of winning the title this season. The Cavs do have the potential to have a better core long-term. |
I disagree, right now CLE better than Miami, Irving is better than off injured Wade, and Kevin Love is better than Bosh and Varejao is an energy machine either of the bench or starting. We all pretty much agree that long term CLE has more potential. I just think that Love and Irving are Dynamic young players, much better than Wade and Bosh
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:33 am Post subject: |
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Love is nowhere nearly as good as Bosh, let alone better. Love can't defend a 5th grader, his defense is downright ugly. And the chances are greater that he and Irving will miss 50 games than they are that they will play 50 games. Calling Wade oft-injured and not Irving as well is dishonest. I will be surprised if Cleveland plays in the ECFs this season and shocked if they play in the Finals.
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| Voices wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | Voices wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Of course he would have. Going for a 4 peat is historical. |
Understatement! Of course James would have stayed in Miami, that would have meant that Miami still had IT.
The bottom lone is CLE has IT, more talent than Miami and has a much better chance of winning a championship. It's a great move for James! I like CLE better than Chicago to represent the East. |
The Cavs don't have more talent than Miami would have had with him, or a better chance of winning the title this season. The Cavs do have the potential to have a better core long-term. |
I disagree, right now CLE better than Miami, Irving is better than off injured Wade, and Kevin Love is better than Bosh and Varejao is an energy machine either of the bench or starting. We all pretty much agree that long term CLE has more potential. I just think that Love and Irving are Dynamic young players, much better than Wade and Bosh |
Every Cav you mentioned is also oft-injured, and we have never seen two of them in a playoff game. They may fold like Harden has done 3 series in a row (and two postseasons). |
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jonnybravo
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: | | Voices wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | Voices wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Of course he would have. Going for a 4 peat is historical. |
Understatement! Of course James would have stayed in Miami, that would have meant that Miami still had IT.
The bottom lone is CLE has IT, more talent than Miami and has a much better chance of winning a championship. It's a great move for James! I like CLE better than Chicago to represent the East. |
The Cavs don't have more talent than Miami would have had with him, or a better chance of winning the title this season. The Cavs do have the potential to have a better core long-term. |
I disagree, right now CLE better than Miami, Irving is better than off injured Wade, and Kevin Love is better than Bosh and Varejao is an energy machine either of the bench or starting. We all pretty much agree that long term CLE has more potential. I just think that Love and Irving are Dynamic young players, much better than Wade and Bosh |
Every Cav you mentioned is also oft-injured, and we have never seen two of them in a playoff game. They may fold like Harden has done 3 series in a row (and two postseasons). |
Either Miami or the Cavs are going to the Finals with Lebron, let's not kid ourselves.
That leaves the point of contention being the Finals. Guess what, Miami DID fold last year so he already knew what he had going forward in Miami. |
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Basketball Fan
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Treble Clef wrote: | | City_Dawg wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | City_Dawg wrote: | | LeBron can go wherever he wants, but lets not attach some BS "feel good" narrative to it. |
A player returning home is a feel good narrative. A player trying to win a title for a franchise that has never won one, in his hometown that hasn't sniffed success in forever is a feel good narrative. |
A player that spurned his so-called best "best friends" is a feel good narrative? The same guy who counted how many times he and his BFFs were gonna have a parade and how easy it was going to be? The same guy who bailed when they were no longer good enough?
You write one letter and people just gloss over (bleep), must be nice. |
I see a lot more people grilling him for it than glossing over it. I'm not familiar with this world where everyone loves and praises LeBron. Everyone I know hates the guy. |
I believe they are talking about the media perception where everyone is praising LeBron for going back to Cleveland even though the great irony is that he did the same exact thing 4 years ago but with better packagng.
Abandoning his current team for something better.
Fine whatever his career he can do what he wants but as I said before spare me the BS feel good narrative.
As crappy as that Decision special was it was actually more sincere than all this was. |
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Basketball Fan wrote: | | Abandoning his current team for something better. |
Is a free agent not supposed to go with the situation that's best for them? Are all guys who sign, or force their way elsewhere via a trade, abandoners?
In this case he went home, to a place that hasn't won anything in forever. I don't think anyone thinks he would have gone back if the team was complete garbage. Wouldn't that be beyond idiotic?
Why do we knock these guys for doing what actually makes sense? Especially when they aren't lying about their intentions? |
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Frank The Tank
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Dreamshake"
What has LeBron done that has been inconsistent with what he has said, as far as where he decided to play? When he left he said he may want to come home someday. He never said he was staying in Miami. he actually did go back to Cleveland.[/quote]
In Febuary 2012, Lebron said about returning to Cleavland, ""I think it would be great. If I decide to come back, hopefully the fans will accept me."
Lebron was signalling that he was open and indeed wanted to come back to Cleavland. All along, I think Lebron always wanted to return to Cleavland; the only question was when.
In Feb 2012, Cleavland only had Kyrie Irving but hadn't gotten incredibly lucky and won the last 2 number one draft picks. Without those two draft picks and Miami falling apart in last year Finals, I think Lebron still would have returned to Cleavland but it wouldn't have been this year. Instead, it might have been a year later or a couple of years later. |
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Treble Clef
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| Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Basketball Fan wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | City_Dawg wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | City_Dawg wrote: | | LeBron can go wherever he wants, but lets not attach some BS "feel good" narrative to it. |
A player returning home is a feel good narrative. A player trying to win a title for a franchise that has never won one, in his hometown that hasn't sniffed success in forever is a feel good narrative. |
A player that spurned his so-called best "best friends" is a feel good narrative? The same guy who counted how many times he and his BFFs were gonna have a parade and how easy it was going to be? The same guy who bailed when they were no longer good enough?
You write one letter and people just gloss over (bleep), must be nice. |
I see a lot more people grilling him for it than glossing over it. I'm not familiar with this world where everyone loves and praises LeBron. Everyone I know hates the guy. |
I believe they are talking about the media perception where everyone is praising LeBron for going back to Cleveland even though the great irony is that he did the same exact thing 4 years ago but with better packagng.
Abandoning his current team for something better.
Fine whatever his career he can do what he wants but as I said before spare me the BS feel good narrative.
As crappy as that Decision special was it was actually more sincere than all this was. |
I dont really see people praising him for that. I can only speak for myself here but he's doing exactly what free agency is designed to do, get players into the salaries and destinations that suit them best. This decision was for himself, not for the city of Cleveland, and I don't think anyone honestly believes otherwise. |
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Basketball Fan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: | | Basketball Fan wrote: | | Abandoning his current team for something better. |
Is a free agent not supposed to go with the situation that's best for them? Are all guys who sign, or force their way elsewhere via a trade, abandoners?
In this case he went home, to a place that hasn't won anything in forever. I don't think anyone thinks he would have gone back if the team was complete garbage. Wouldn't that be beyond idiotic?
Why do we knock these guys for doing what actually makes sense? Especially when they aren't lying about their intentions? |
Of course but as I said before which you apparently refuse to listen to is spare me the BS narrative about coming home.
Would he have come home if the Heat 3 peated and had a shot at a 4th title?
No so home must not really not matter to him as much as he claims. |
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Gwyn
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Telleris
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:41 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Love is nowhere nearly as good as Bosh, let alone better. Love can't defend a 5th grader, his defense is downright ugly. And the chances are greater that he and Irving will miss 50 games than they are that they will play 50 games. Calling Wade oft-injured and not Irving as well is dishonest. I will be surprised if Cleveland plays in the ECFs this season and shocked if they play in the Finals. |
I'm not sure I'd go that far, but i feel like this is the worst defensive big 3 (their only healthy positive on d is the guy who needs to carry the o load, and he's going on 30) i've ever seen and they don't really have any defensive specialists around them to take some load either. Waiters and Irving might be the worst defensive back court in the nba, throw in love and well...
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KobeDunk
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:09 am Post subject: |
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| Lebron's a scared child... scared of advesity and a real challenge. Now that he won in Miami and Wade is getting older he knows that soon there will be a rebuilding stage there, he obviously wanted nothing to do with that challenge so he jumped ship and when to a "stacked" Cleveland team. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:15 am Post subject: |
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| KobeDunk wrote: | | Lebron's a scared child... scared of advesity and a real challenge. Now that he won in Miami and Wade is getting older he knows that soon there will be a rebuilding stage there, he obviously wanted nothing to do with that challenge so he jumped ship and when to a "stacked" Cleveland team. |
I've rooted against him every time, but not sure he's a "scared child." He's an opportunist. Jumped to Miami when he and his pals colluded together (since Clev. was a sinking ship at that point).
After winning 2 rings, he saw the handwriting on the wall with Wade playing poorly and Bosh being less effective (and the team was salary-capped).
So with the "fortuitous" luck of Clev. getting 3 #1 picks in 4 years, he saw another opportunity to return home (I think this is genuine, but if the team sucked, he wouldn't have come back) with a younger core to make a new 5 year run.
It's opportunism. Lots of players are opportunistic (remember Kobe in the mid-2000s, thank God he didn't leave, or Shaq coming from Orlando, etc.). But Lebron is openly praised for it while others are chastised. Therein lies the disconnect.
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| Basketball Fan wrote: | Of course but as I said before which you apparently refuse to listen to is spare me the BS narrative about coming home.
Would he have come home if the Heat 3 peated and had a shot at a 4th title?
No so home must not really not matter to him as much as he claims. |
Coming home is a part of the narrative. He has always stated that it was hard to leave Cleveland and he wanted to come back eventually. Now was a good time to go back. If Miami had a shot to 4-peat then he still would have had a chance to chase history and come home eventually. |
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | It's opportunism. Lots of players are opportunistic (remember Kobe in the mid-2000s, thank God he didn't leave, or Shaq coming from Orlando, etc.). But Lebron is openly praised for it while others are chastised. Therein lies the disconnect. |
What other free agents have been chastised for being opportunisitc? |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | It's opportunism. Lots of players are opportunistic (remember Kobe in the mid-2000s, thank God he didn't leave, or Shaq coming from Orlando, etc.). But Lebron is openly praised for it while others are chastised. Therein lies the disconnect. |
What other free agents have been chastised for being opportunisitc? |
How about that Dwight Howard guy?
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | It's opportunism. Lots of players are opportunistic (remember Kobe in the mid-2000s, thank God he didn't leave, or Shaq coming from Orlando, etc.). But Lebron is openly praised for it while others are chastised. Therein lies the disconnect. |
What other free agents have been chastised for being opportunisitc? |
How about that Dwight Howard guy? |
Howard was chastised for doing what LeBron did not do...trying to force a trade to another team and being dishonest about his intentions, when he was not a free agent. When Howard decided to come to Houston as a free agent he really wasn't chastised outside of LA. I'm not referring to situations where former teams'fans are upset that someone left them. For example, Celtic fans were upset at Ray Allen. No one else really was.
I can't think of another situation where a free agent actually did what was best for them and they caught flack for it. Um, isn't that exactly what a free agent is supposed to do (be opportunistic)? Even if we say LeBron just went to the best situation for him....um, wouldn't it be kinda dumb to choose to put yourself in a worse situation to achieve your goals? It's akin to us losing Parsons. His top priority seemed to be money. Doesn't it make sense that he went to a decent team that was willing to....shocker....pay him the most money? |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | It's opportunism. Lots of players are opportunistic (remember Kobe in the mid-2000s, thank God he didn't leave, or Shaq coming from Orlando, etc.). But Lebron is openly praised for it while others are chastised. Therein lies the disconnect. |
What other free agents have been chastised for being opportunisitc? |
How about that Dwight Howard guy? |
Howard was chastised for doing what LeBron did not do...trying to force a trade to another team and being dishonest about his intentions, when he was not a free agent. When Howard decided to come to Houston as a free agent he really wasn't chastised outside of LA. I'm not referring to situations where former teams'fans are upset that someone left them. For example, Celtic fans were upset at Ray Allen. No one else really was.
I can't think of another situation where a free agent actually did what was best for them and they caught flack for it. Um, isn't that exactly what a free agent is supposed to do (be opportunistic)? Even if we say LeBron just went to the best situation for him....um, wouldn't it be kinda dumb to choose to put yourself in a worse situation to achieve your goals? It's akin to us losing Parsons. His top priority seemed to be money. Doesn't it make sense that he went to a decent team that was willing to....shocker....pay him the most money? |
My larger point is that Lebron isn't a "coward" of "scared of the moment." He is simply (and ultimately) wise in making that move. Now that should also be a part of his legacy too. Whether it's the GM's fault he decided to bolt or whether that is just how he is built, it's worth noting.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| KobeDunk wrote: | | Lebron's a scared child... scared of advesity and a real challenge. Now that he won in Miami and Wade is getting older he knows that soon there will be a rebuilding stage there, he obviously wanted nothing to do with that challenge so he jumped ship and when to a "stacked" Cleveland team. |
I think the idea of a "stacked" Cleveland team only comes from those who what to disparage Lebron. Fact is, they aren't stacked. And Lebron went from a team that was in 4 Finals to a team that has lived in the lottery the past half of a decade. I think that doesn't come close to being "scared".
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22
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:28 am Post subject: |
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LOL I see some are still naive on this.
Miami was done. That's why Lebron left. If he thought they could have won the title there this year he would have signed the same contract he did in Cle w/ a 1 year opt out to see what they could do.
Cle has a better roster right now than Miami would have if Lebron would have stayed. It's not even a question on which team has a better setup for the future.
The only debate is whether you respect him for doing that or not. Some people will call it just being opportunistic. Some people will call it cowardice. The choice is yours.
I tend to think he is both. Which makes me not like him very much. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | It's opportunism. Lots of players are opportunistic (remember Kobe in the mid-2000s, thank God he didn't leave, or Shaq coming from Orlando, etc.). But Lebron is openly praised for it while others are chastised. Therein lies the disconnect. |
What other free agents have been chastised for being opportunisitc? |
How about that Dwight Howard guy? |
Howard was chastised for doing what LeBron did not do...trying to force a trade to another team and being dishonest about his intentions, when he was not a free agent. When Howard decided to come to Houston as a free agent he really wasn't chastised outside of LA. I'm not referring to situations where former teams'fans are upset that someone left them. For example, Celtic fans were upset at Ray Allen. No one else really was.
I can't think of another situation where a free agent actually did what was best for them and they caught flack for it. Um, isn't that exactly what a free agent is supposed to do (be opportunistic)? Even if we say LeBron just went to the best situation for him....um, wouldn't it be kinda dumb to choose to put yourself in a worse situation to achieve your goals? It's akin to us losing Parsons. His top priority seemed to be money. Doesn't it make sense that he went to a decent team that was willing to....shocker....pay him the most money? |
My larger point is that Lebron isn't a "coward" of "scared of the moment." He is simply (and ultimately) wise in making that move. Now that should also be a part of his legacy too. Whether it's the GM's fault he decided to bolt or whether that is just how he is built, it's worth noting. |
I think it's also the new way of the world. The Internet, endorsement money, and personal branding are, in my opinion, making the connection between a player and the team he happens to play for at a given moment less important.
I think fans are getting used to the notion that a player is simply renting his services to a team for a certain period of time and the player will happily move on if a better situation arises. |
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