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Fruscas Star Player
Joined: 12 Mar 2013 Posts: 5130
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:41 am Post subject: |
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I'll say it loud and clear then:
If i was a professional player you put me through intensive running and high school drills... i find it cute after a session. If you repeat that sh*t for a week, i'll be hating your guts and i'll be completely tuned out by then, questioning why the hell are we not practicing like...actual basketball drills. Look at the name of the game: you put the ball in the basket, that's the goal. This isnt about running. |
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Fruscas Star Player
Joined: 12 Mar 2013 Posts: 5130
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:43 am Post subject: |
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Rivershow wrote: | Fruscas wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | Fruscas wrote: | Ok, i'm going to try to explain what the point i was trying to get across is:
For instance, old school soccer (football) coaches would take their team to the mountains or to a place with extreme heat in the pre-season, and would make them run for days, for conditioning purposes.
Nowadays, because the players are very well payed professionals and usually take good care of themselves, it is seen as a unnecessary measure, unless they all are out of shape. If only a couple of them are, you put them in the gym and they do specific training to get in shape, instead of or after regular training.
Modern sports training techniques promote a cohesive training style, you draw exercises where most of the skills needed are the ones that you will use in games. Cause that's the goal of training after all, to prepare you to play the game, so you put the players in very similar situations as the ones they'll face in competition.
The bits i saw from todays training consisted of a very segmented and "old school" regime of exercises. Even when the players were shooting from long range they were in some kind of military column, and rigid positioning. That, i dont like, cause it just smells outdated to me.
That's all really. I think we can move on peacefully, now
Edit: I do acknowledge that even conditioning heavy coaches tend to do most of that heavy lifting in the pre-season, yes. But i would argue that even that is kinda unnecessary. |
I see that applying concepts of psychology, as important as any system, is being ignored. |
In a modern system you use the same concepts as you basically use in a psychology session, you begin with very basic conceptual exercises, and you gradually step up the difficulty, while you monitor and make sure the players master all of them. Then you integrate those parts with playing drills, let the players fill the blanks, correct them, learn with them and so on.
This isn't the army, the players are not so naive anymore, so you gotta respect their intelligence. You conquer them by being a great basketball mind, an alpha dog doesnt have to say he is one nor mark a position. He is or he is not one. The players will recognize it immediately. |
You realize that not one person who talked about the drills sounded unhappy yesterday right? It's like you are trying to create a problem that's not there and you are annoying lakers fans on this forum who are trying to enjoy the first few days of lakers basketball before people are complaining about real issues. |
you realize that i had already shut up and some random dude brought me right back into the conversation, right? I dont wanna continue this conversation, but if y'all continue to quote me, i will. |
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Rivershow Star Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2011 Posts: 6731
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:45 am Post subject: |
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Fruscas wrote: | I'll say it loud and clear then:
If i was a professional player you put me through intensive running and high school drills... i find it cute after a session. If you repeat that sh*t for a week, i'll be hating your guts and i'll be completely tuned out by then, questioning why the hell are we not practicing like...actual basketball drills. Look at the name of the game: you put the ball in the basket, that's the goal. This isnt about running. |
Lol so you are equating your feelings to that of the lakers team? See that is your problem right there. You are not them, don't ever get that confused. They are professionals just like you said so they can handle some suicide conditioning drills on the first day of practice without it breaking them down and causing them to revolt against the coach. I honestly think you are living in some type of fantasy land. I am going to give you some advice stop with this because you are just annoying fellow members here who just want to talk positively about training camp. |
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The_Dynasty24 Star Player
Joined: 12 Jun 2013 Posts: 2840
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:46 am Post subject: |
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Fruscas wrote: | I'll say it loud and clear then:
If i was a professional player you put me through intensive running and high school drills... i find it cute after a session. If you repeat that sh*t for a week, i'll be hating your guts and i'll be completely tuned out by then, questioning why the hell are we not practicing like...actual basketball drills. Look at the name of the game: you put the ball in the basket, that's the goal. This isnt about running. | Wait, so you don't think that they are also going to be doing actual basketball drills? I highly doubt that the plan is to keep up condition into the season when players need rest, but this is training camp for god's sake. What you don't realize is that outside of very few players on our squad, they are all on one year deals. Either they cooperate, or they find their ass a new profession.
However outdated you may find the drills they are doing, it's far too premature to act so negatively towards them. |
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Fruscas Star Player
Joined: 12 Mar 2013 Posts: 5130
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:47 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, i admit that i overreacted, for sure. Give it a rest now, will ya |
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emz83 Sixth Man
Joined: 18 Jul 2014 Posts: 33
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:41 am Post subject: |
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re:basic drills
While I don't have basketball experience, I do know that all the sensei's at my dojo and all the higher level musicians swear by the basics. As a musician at the highest levels, you practice your scales at the beginning of every session and sometimes dedicate entire sessions to get fingering right, muscle memory beyond muscle memory. Martial artists at the highest levels, practice how to punch/kick until it's polished and then you practice it a thousand, a hundred thousand, a million times more until it's muscle memory; you're building in stamina so that even when you're tired you can still do that motion, as unconscious as to be like breathing, as basic as your heartbeat. Where you can still punch, or in this case run, even when you feel like falling over and dying. (or have a flu )
Because when crunch-time comes you don't have time to concentrate on the basics. You can't be fighting your body to run when you need to pay attention to what your opponent is doing and looking for openings; what I mean by fighting your body to run is that you don't have the time to yell at your body to do something though fatigue. And it's a constant fight to keep pushing further and further the limit where you need to 'coach' your body.
TLDR: I find that the people who tend to lean on drills and the basics are usually the beginners and the masters. The separation between amateurs and masters is an integration of (and constant return to) the fundamentals.
Along these lines, I really appreciate what I've seen/heard so far of training camp and from Scott. |
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The_Dynasty24 Star Player
Joined: 12 Jun 2013 Posts: 2840
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:02 am Post subject: |
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Fruscas wrote: | Yeah, i admit that i overreacted, for sure. Give it a rest now, will ya | My bad, didn't realize that the conversation had been going on the last couple of pages and that it was basically over already.
But yeah, I think we can all agree that we're excited about Lakers basketball starting up again. |
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Fruscas Star Player
Joined: 12 Mar 2013 Posts: 5130
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:10 am Post subject: |
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Yes, i am very excited to see Lakers basketball and Kobe play again, for sure |
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loki05 Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 1029 Location: MOON
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:11 am Post subject: |
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Fruscas wrote: | I'll say it loud and clear then:
If i was a professional player you put me through intensive running and high school drills... i find it cute after a session. If you repeat that sh*t for a week, i'll be hating your guts and i'll be completely tuned out by then, questioning why the hell are we not practicing like...actual basketball drills. Look at the name of the game: you put the ball in the basket, that's the goal. This isnt about running. |
this right here is an example of a 10day contract player and a player signed for the rest of the season |
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anpherknee Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Mar 2014 Posts: 16933
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2008 Posts: 6429
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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emz83 wrote: | re:basic drills
While I don't have basketball experience, I do know that all the sensei's at my dojo and all the higher level musicians swear by the basics. As a musician at the highest levels, you practice your scales at the beginning of every session and sometimes dedicate entire sessions to get fingering right, muscle memory beyond muscle memory. Martial artists at the highest levels, practice how to punch/kick until it's polished and then you practice it a thousand, a hundred thousand, a million times more until it's muscle memory; you're building in stamina so that even when you're tired you can still do that motion, as unconscious as to be like breathing, as basic as your heartbeat. Where you can still punch, or in this case run, even when you feel like falling over and dying. (or have a flu )
Because when crunch-time comes you don't have time to concentrate on the basics. You can't be fighting your body to run when you need to pay attention to what your opponent is doing and looking for openings; what I mean by fighting your body to run is that you don't have the time to yell at your body to do something though fatigue. And it's a constant fight to keep pushing further and further the limit where you need to 'coach' your body.
TLDR: I find that the people who tend to lean on drills and the basics are usually the beginners and the masters. The separation between amateurs and masters is an integration of (and constant return to) the fundamentals.
Along these lines, I really appreciate what I've seen/heard so far of training camp and from Scott. |
Excellent post and something along the lines of what I was going to post. Scales aren't Jazz, but every Jazz player spends a couple of hours a day going over them. And in any skill really fundamentals are really important to keep at no matter the level. In basketball, conditioning works exactly as you say about martial arts. _________________ “It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays |
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eagles nut Star Player
Joined: 06 Jul 2001 Posts: 6240 Location: Baltimore, MD
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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Fruscas wrote: | I'll say it loud and clear then:
If i was a professional player you put me through intensive running and high school drills... i find it cute after a session. If you repeat that sh*t for a week, i'll be hating your guts and i'll be completely tuned out by then, questioning why the hell are we not practicing like...actual basketball drills. Look at the name of the game: you put the ball in the basket, that's the goal. This isnt about running. |
If I was a coach, I'd make it clear: We get better by hard work and if you don't have a strong work ethic and a good attitude(actually being a professional basketball player) then you're not going to be here long. |
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City_Dawg Retired Number
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 Posts: 46878 Location: Coming soon and striking at your borders.
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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Trapped in the injury closet!
Quote: | Los Angeles Lakers @Lakers 3m3 minutes ago
Injury Update: Ryan Kelly suffered a moderate left hamstring strain. He is out indefinitely. |
_________________ *sighs*
!... |
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PROPHET Star Player
Joined: 05 Jul 2001 Posts: 4356 Location: Oxnard, CA - The Nard
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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City_Dawg wrote: | Trapped in the injury closet!
Quote: | Los Angeles Lakers @Lakers 3m3 minutes ago
Injury Update: Ryan Kelly suffered a moderate left hamstring strain. He is out indefinitely. |
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Its like the 1989 finals again! |
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emz83 Sixth Man
Joined: 18 Jul 2014 Posts: 33
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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fun news:
Quote: | Lakers practice - Day 2 - VIDEO: http://t.co/2XKeCJy6H3
— Lakers Nation (@LakersNation) October 1, 2014 |
and
and
Quote: | Mike Trudell @LakersReporter · 11m 11 minutes ago
Scrimmage to end practice is: (Purple) Nash, Kobe, Johnson, Boozer and Hill; (White) Lin, Clarkson, Young, Davis and Sacre. |
and
Quote: | Mike Trudell @LakersReporter · 2m 2 minutes ago
Kobe just dropped a turnaround J from the elbow. He and Nash are both moving very well on both ends of the court. |
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The Joker Starting Rotation
Joined: 09 Jul 2009 Posts: 725
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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Some 5 on 5 action
https://twitter.com/lakers _________________ twitter.com/MasteredJedi |
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emz83 Sixth Man
Joined: 18 Jul 2014 Posts: 33
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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emz83 wrote: | fun news:
Quote: | Lakers practice - Day 2 - VIDEO: http://t.co/2XKeCJy6H3
— Lakers Nation (@LakersNation) October 1, 2014 |
and
and
Quote: | Mike Trudell @LakersReporter · 11m 11 minutes ago
Scrimmage to end practice is: (Purple) Nash, Kobe, Johnson, Boozer and Hill; (White) Lin, Clarkson, Young, Davis and Sacre. |
and
Quote: | Mike Trudell @LakersReporter · 2m 2 minutes ago
Kobe just dropped a turnaround J from the elbow. He and Nash are both moving very well on both ends of the court. |
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Quote: | Mike Trudell @LakersReporter · 11m 11 minutes ago
Quick change: Julius Randle is actually working with the second team right now, and Ed Davis with Wayne Ellington on the 3rd team. |
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K28 Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2012 Posts: 10038
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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Well that didn't take long. TBH though, I don't know where Kelly fits on this team. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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I think Kelly and Randle at SF and PF for a few minutes makes sense. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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anpherknee Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Mar 2014 Posts: 16933
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LakesGnrLake Star Player
Joined: 07 Apr 2011 Posts: 1292
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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WOW get over it people, this forum is ridiculous sometimes. These guys are paid millions to play. They are in shape when they come into camp or they should be. Some conditioning drills aren't going to make anyone hate anyone. If your saying you'd hate the coach after this there's a reason they are the pros and we are sitting typing on our computer talking about their training. |
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lakurluv Star Player
Joined: 17 May 2010 Posts: 2529
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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If you've played or coached this game at any level you understand, that all athletes need conditioning, especially professional ones. You understand that you can't rely on everyone on the team to do their part over the summer in terms of staying in shape and improving their skills. Some only do one or the other, very seldom do most do both.
Since this is the NBA it's not a coach's job to teach them fundamental skills, but it is his job to make sure they are prepared to play at a high level for 82 games plus the playoffs and the only way to do that is to assess their conditioning.
Scott is starting off on the right track. These players need discipline, we have a young group and an older group that he needs to assess to fully see what this team is capable of. Hats off to BScott to start the camp off.
Unfortunately there will be casualties like Kelly who as you can see probably didn't do his part in conditioning over the summer.
This separates the wheat from the tares and will allow Scott to finalize certain aspects of his camp.
Fingers are crossed that Tyler makes the team
Dribble, layup, shooting and defensive drills are taught in Travel basketball from Elementary-High School, the NBA is not the place for that. Individual improvement is done just as that individually!
Good job BScott, now get us some wins this year! |
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City_Dawg Retired Number
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 Posts: 46878 Location: Coming soon and striking at your borders.
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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Like buttah. _________________ *sighs*
!... |
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Rivershow Star Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2011 Posts: 6731
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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Those Kobe highlights are beautiful. Hopefully we get some Randle highlights soon. |
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anpherknee Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Mar 2014 Posts: 16933
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