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LA_Lakers_Rule
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 Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | LA_Lakers_Rule wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | LA_Lakers_Rule wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | We'll be better defensively than last year, but we won't be a good defensive team. |
So what do you think ringfinger.... is there a chance that the Lakers can possibly improve to "at best average" this year defensively?  
.... that is considering they happened to be 3rd worst in this category last year.... |
It's doubtful. We lack size inside and speed on the perimeter. And not one lockdown defender to carry us defensively. I'm not sure we have a single player that poses a matchup nightmare to any opposing offensive player. |
Your probably right, but then you would agree that "defense" impact is inherently more critical to overall team success as opposed to the impact of 3-pt shooting so with that in mind a more moderate improvement defensively in general will have a greater positive impact overall than the negative impact of an even worse decline in 3-pt shooting as far as getting W's is concerned, right? |
Sure. That's in part why I project a 40% improvement in season over season win totals. |
Pretty conservative prediction, I don't see how you can go wrong with predicting a 38-44 record.... I'd have to say that I actually believe the Lakers have an excellent chance at playing at least 500 ball and probably even slightly better this year.... that is of course assuming the team remains reasonably healthy....
.... Now I would take it a bit further if in fact Kobe, Nash, Boozer and Hill were to actually all be able to stay totally healthy as well as the team in general overall and thus all of these players along with Lin would have exceptionally good years this season then this team with the deep bench they DO clearly have could certainly accomplish a lower end seed in the post-season..... but of course all of this lining up would be a long-shot....
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Last edited by LA_Lakers_Rule on Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Roon
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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Lin and Clarkson are definitely an improvement over Marshal and Nash/Farmar(always hurt too).
Let's look at our projected(serious) starting line-up. If Nash is healthy enough to play, he will play off the bench. It will be easier on offense, and defense, and he can really make our bench dangerous. He may get some run with certain starters, but Lin is and will be the right choice.
Lin/Kobe/Johnson/Boozer/Hill
Lin said he's been working on is defense. He's young and hustles, and if you take his post-season defense against Damian Lilliard, he should hopefully be at least an average, if not above average defender.
For the first time in a long time, we will have both an above average scorer, passer, and defender in the point guard slot. He might not win the battle, but for the first time in awhile, I'm not fearful facing the top tier point guards in the league(especially the west.)
When we don't have to hide our point guard defensively, things get a bit easier match-up wise. Because it's still time for optimism, we can hope that Wes Johnson will continue to improve defensively, he can take and handle(contain) the first or second best offensive threat on the opposing team. Kobe will not have a problem guarding the third best wing on the opposing team, who is usually a spot up shooter.
I don't know about Boozer, I don't know what to expect. Talk assumes he will be bad, but I doubt much worse than Gasol as a PF, but hopefully with a much improved wing defense, we'll work it out.
A lot of the season will depend on what and how much Jordan Hill can contribute, both on offense and defense. With better lifestyle choices, we can hope for improved health and durability, seeing him on the court for a productive 30 mins of a game will be HUGE.
Comparing this team to last year we easily show improvement in our capacity to defend other teams. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| LA_Lakers_Rule wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | LA_Lakers_Rule wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | LA_Lakers_Rule wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | We'll be better defensively than last year, but we won't be a good defensive team. |
So what do you think ringfinger.... is there a chance that the Lakers can possibly improve to "at best average" this year defensively?
.... that is considering they happened to be 3rd worst in this category last year.... |
It's doubtful. We lack size inside and speed on the perimeter. And not one lockdown defender to carry us defensively. I'm not sure we have a single player that poses a matchup nightmare to any opposing offensive player. |
Your probably right, but then you would agree that "defense" impact is inherently more critical to overall team success as opposed to the impact of 3-pt shooting so with that in mind a more moderate improvement defensively in general will have a greater positive impact overall than the negative impact of an even worse decline in 3-pt shooting as far as getting W's is concerned, right? |
Sure. That's in part why I project a 40% improvement in season over season win totals. |
Pretty conservative prediction, I don't see how you can go wrong with predicting a 38-44 record.... I'd have to say that I actually believe the Lakers have an excellent chance at playing at least 500 ball or probably even slightly better this year.... that is of course assuming the team remains reasonably healthy.... |
I don't think .500 is out of the question either. To your point, things would need to go right in that department for us to get there. I'm also assuming some ramp up time for Kobe to be Kobe again. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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Defense is made up of three main things: the physical talent of the players, the scheme, and the intelligence and effort expended running it. If you can get the last two things working, you can take poor individual guys and fashion a decent team defense. la should be able to get into the middle third of teams.
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dont_be_a_wuss
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| LA_Lakers_Rule wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
I say 22nd. Better next year once we get a true center. |
This sounds like a good assesment. With my homer glasses I see 17-19 being possible with a consistent system and trust. |
So then perhaps with our "homer glasses" at work we might be able to say the Laker could possibly improve to "average at best" defensively. |
By my math, that's below average. Average would be generous. |
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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I wouldn't be surprised if we cracked the top 20 defensively. With how bad the East is, we should be a top 15-20 team.
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Hard_Butter
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| LA_Lakers_Rule wrote: | A lot of people in the Will the Lakers be a good three point shooting team? thread think the Lakers will drop from 3rd best 3 point shooting team last year to "at best average this year" in 3-pt shooting this year.....
.... so with that in mind considering the Lakers were ironically ranked the exact opposite in defense last year as the 3rd worst in defensive efficiency as contrasted to the fact that last year they were the 3rd best three point shooting team (see link above)....
.... Could the Lakers end up improving from 3rd to last in defense to "at best average this year" in defensive efficiency just as so many feel they will drop in the very same manner in 3-pt shooting?
Here we go on the very first page of this topic:
| EchoZulu wrote: | | pio2u wrote: | | I doubt if they could be any worse than they were last year. |
Exactly. I think just by simply putting an emphasis on defense will make a tremendous difference. I predict we'll be somewhere in the middle of the pack defensively this year. |
Is there a consensus developing that the Lakers might come close to perhaps improving equally in defense as they will drop-off in 3-pt shooting according to this thread and another on the topic of 3-pt shooting?
.... If so it would end up very ironically sort of balancing things out between the two team stats of 3-pt shooting versus defense it would seem.... |
The obvious and simple answer to all this is HC change and the difference in coaching philosophies that come with it.
MDA's objective has always been outscoring the opponent while running the 1-4 Euro offense predicated on pick and rolls and 3 point shooting. Scott, judging from history, will be more methodical offensively-- using ball movement from the Princeton O's principles while taking advantage of mismatches. This alone will improve the overall team's defense and lead to a drop off in 3 point shooting-- in volume certainly, but efficiency may remain the same, perhaps even improve. The fact that the team will be taking less 3 point shots, which often leads to missed long rebounds and run outs, is a huge plus. Add this to Scott instilling a defensive mindset, leads me to believe that the team will improve greatly defensively.
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70sdude
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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The 2015 Lakers - defensively - will be statistically indistinguishable from the 2014 Lakers.  |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| 70sdude wrote: | | The 2015 Lakers - defensively - will be statistically indistinguishable from the 2014 Lakers. |
Would you like a friendly wager on that? Loser has to rock a sig written by the winner for 2 weeks? use basketball reference defensive ratings?
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iggypop123
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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the answer to the question will be related to health.
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Treble Clef
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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Well Byron's Cleveland teams usually ranked around 26th in defense so they should be at least a little bit better. |
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lakersgirl
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Nightwalker wrote: | | pio2u wrote: | | I doubt if they could be any worse than they were last year. |
Pretty much. I expect them to be better. |
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Cup-of-noodles
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:11 am Post subject: |
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last year = 0 defense
this year = ? |
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mporter
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:47 am Post subject: |
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| Depends on how you measure defense...Likely a slower pace, less possessions, less long three pointers leading to long rebounds and opponent breaks, floor balance on offense should help rebounding (a departure from some of Dantoni's 4 out 1 in sets) will all factor into less ppg and lower opponent fg%. |
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B_P
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:05 am Post subject: |
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| Treble Clef wrote: |
Well Byron's Cleveland teams usually ranked around 26th in defense so they should be at least a little bit better. |
What about Byron's NJ and NO teams? Where were they usually ranked?
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:14 am Post subject: |
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Assuming the Lakers finish in the 8-10 range, they should likely be low-20s, maybe high teens in "defensive ratings." Last year is such a poor measuring stick. I don't think this team will be elite defensively, nor will they be the laughingstock they were last year. But our starting lineup will be below average defensively, and if we are to finish in the slightly below defensive average, it'll take a lot of work from the bench unit to help on that end.
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:16 am Post subject: |
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| Treble Clef wrote: |
Well Byron's Cleveland teams usually ranked around 26th in defense so they should be at least a little bit better. |
It would also be fair to acknowledge that Scott's Nets and Hornets teams were top half to top 10 in the League defensively. Both teams improved when he arrived, stayed consistently in that range and declined when he left. He does coach defense.
Perhaps I am being too optimistic but IMO the Lakers improve to a mid-teens rating defensively. Much will depend on team chemistry and player buy-in to the system. They seem to be saying the right things and approaching the season with the right attitude. Going to be interesting to see the defensive intensity when they roll the ball out onto the court.
Basing my prediction on these speculations:
- As mentioned before, I agree that improved offensive efficiency leads to less opponents fast breaks and easy baskets. Floor balance.
- Lin is an improvement at PG. Perhaps not great but athletic enough to harass at the point of attack. And smart enough to play good team defense.
- Kaman and Gasol both were slow to react in the paint. Hill and Davis are not. Expect much better defensive rotations this year from the big men. .
- Boozer is average and not very athletic. But the guy is the ultimate professional. His experience with Chicago is going to help with concepts and communication on defense. Randle can be a very good player. Very athletic and plays with a lot of energy. Can that translate to the defensive side in the pros will be fun to see.
- Encouraged to hear the stories of Kobe working with Johnson over the summer. Should help both on both ends of the floor. Helps Kobe get back into not only physical but mental shape. Johnson gets some valuable defensive fundamentals and experience defending Kobe daily and developing the chemistry together for the season.
- Some interesting bench players in Young, Sacre, Clarkson, Kelly, Ellington and Price could add some competitive attitude in practice and in specific roles on the court.
- Specifically leaving Nash out because he is a defensive liability. He has his strengths that can help the team but defense is not one of them.
As I said, I may be overly optimistic but I am expecting a much improved defense. Much will depend on health and player chemistry. Also will they play with defensive intensity on the floor or is it just lip service for the reporters. Certainly should be an entertaining year if nothing else! |
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King Randle
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:34 am Post subject: |
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No question they will be better...Just the mind set and the priority being put on defense will improve the team. This league is not about individual defenders it's more about a defensive scheme. Miami was outstanding on defense, sure Lebron is a great defender, but Wade, Chalmers, Bosh and Allen? Please. The team played pressure defense on the perimeter through a defensive scheme they plotted.
Will the Lakers be one of the top defensive teams? No..but improved? Yes. |
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70sdude
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:09 am Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | 70sdude wrote: | | The 2015 Lakers - defensively - will be statistically indistinguishable from the 2014 Lakers. |
Would you like a friendly wager on that? Loser has to rock a sig written by the winner for 2 weeks? use basketball reference defensive ratings? |
I stopped betting anything on the Lakers in 1986, for some reason. |
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GreekTrojan
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| They will be better through sheer effort and practice. That said, better /= good and this team as a rather low ceiling. If we hit middle of the pack defensively (FG% not PPG/pace effected stats), I would be impressed. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| mporter wrote: | | Depends on how you measure defense...Likely a slower pace, less possessions, less long three pointers leading to long rebounds and opponent breaks, floor balance on offense should help rebounding (a departure from some of Dantoni's 4 out 1 in sets) will all factor into less ppg and lower opponent fg%. |
Points per possession (usually represented as points per 100 possessions) is a pretty fair way to do it. That encompasses everything including pace.
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Voices
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:59 am Post subject: |
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Scott is all about defense according to the comments from players and Scott himself.
The first practice included defense and running and Scott was quoted in the Ventura Star and I would assume the LA Times as well that defense will be the priority in practice through out the season. Players also commented on how hard the conditioning/running was.
If this team is going to have a chance or at least get the most of the teams talent, defense and conditioning should be the number one priority IMO.
Realistically this team is not championship material, however being a scrappy effort team will go a long way in pleasing the fan base. Last season it was difficult to watch for me because trying to outscore the opponent without playing defense was not NBA basketball, it was more like watching school yard basketball.
I believe the players will buy into Scott and his philosophy, he was a Lakers player on championship teams and now is the Coach that has the support of former Lakers greats. I hope the Lakers greats become, again, part of the Lakers PUBLICLY, I think that will happen because of Scott.
Go Lakers and go Coach Scott.
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LoyalLakerfan44
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| Honestly I cannot see this team being worse defensively than last year. Last year's team played zero defense, it was the worse defensive team ever. They allowed 109 ppg! that's insane I'm surprised they won 27 games! |
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LoyalLakerfan44
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | Defense is made up of three main things: the physical talent of the players, the scheme, and the intelligence and effort expended running it. If you can get the last two things working, you can take poor individual guys and fashion a decent team defense. la should be able to get into the middle third of teams. |
Defense is Effort, communication and anticipation, also understanding that if your man gets beaten you have to be there. You don't need to be super athletic or anything like that you have to be a unit that doesn't miss a beat on rotations. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:45 am Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: |
As I said, I may be overly optimistic but I am expecting a much improved defense. Much will depend on health and player chemistry. Also will they play with defensive intensity on the floor or is it just lip service for the reporters. Certainly should be an entertaining year if nothing else! |
They have no last line of defense nor a first line of defense. About all Scott can reasonable do is provide lip service and motivation to borderline defensive players. The Nick Young comments I think already fall under that category. All the defensive scheming in the world can't help you if you're constantly chasing your man. I don't even think the opposition needs to run pick and rolls to get into the "teeth" of this defense.
While less threes may lead to fewer fastbreaks and runouts, adding two turnover machines to the roster in Kobe and Lin will negate that to some extent.
Last edited by greenfrog on Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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