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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
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 Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | I fail to see how you spouting untruthful things advance the conversation. |
Then why do you keep saying the Lakers were the ones that turned down the Pau/Odom for CP3 deal when everyone knows that was Stern, not the Lakers? |
I have never said that, another thing you made up. |
I fail to see how you spouting untruthful things advance the conversation.
You said: "In fact, they reportedly turned down deals for him because they wanted to keep him as a Laker."
NOT TRUE. They did NOT turn down the Pau/Odom for CP3 deal. |
They did turn down offers for him, which is exactly what I said. I never said they turned down every offer, again you just made that up.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| P.K. wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | With that being said, Vegas isn't dumb either. In the end the house usually wins. There will be fans hoping to take that bet hoping they are the lucky ones to beat the odds. |
Someone already explained this, but to cover it again
WRT sports betting, in Vegas the house neither wins nor losses - they TIE, and they want it that way. They want to put the odds or the over/under line at exactly the point where they will totally balance the bets coming in from the public. in other words, they want the total $$ bet on OVER to exactly equal the total $$ bet on UNDER - so the house neither wins nor loses.
The house makes a commission on every single bet placed - this is where they make their money. They make the same commission % on a OVER bet as they do on an UNDER bet.
so, the house gets paid regardless of who wins or losses - and they make every effort to place the line so that the money bet exactly evens out so they have no exposure on this
this is why you'll see the line on sports bets moving over time- the house set the line too high or too low for public sentiment, and too much money is coming in on one side of it and now the house has exposure that they'd have to cover...so, they move the line to balance out the betting and cover their risk |
Exactly. I bet $20, and when I won I was paid $17 in addition to my original $20. So the juice on my win was $3.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | I fail to see how you spouting untruthful things advance the conversation. |
Then why do you keep saying the Lakers were the ones that turned down the Pau/Odom for CP3 deal when everyone knows that was Stern, not the Lakers? |
I have never said that, another thing you made up. |
I fail to see how you spouting untruthful things advance the conversation.
You said: "In fact, they reportedly turned down deals for him because they wanted to keep him as a Laker."
NOT TRUE. They did NOT turn down the Pau/Odom for CP3 deal. |
They did turn down offers for him, which is exactly what I said. I never said they turned down every offer, again you just made that up. |
You said you just made that up.
You realize that right? |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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It is pointless having a discussion with a mindless person who can't handle reading what one posts and instead makes up things they think were posted. Last word, the Lakers were offered deals for Pau post-CP3 and turned them down because they wanted Pau to remain a Laker. Along with paying him much more than his own contributions. If that is treating him poorly, then most players wish they were that mistreated.
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P.K.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | P.K. wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | 24KaratGold wrote: | | How do I bet online on this? Can't seem to find anything |
Can somebody answer this? I wanna know too. |
It's a violation of federal law for any US company to accept bets that cross state lines either through the web or by phone. It's also a violation of US law for any bank or credit card company to process any transaction to any online gambling company...
because of these 2 laws, all online gambling that US residents engage in is with companies that have legal presence in a so called "safe haven" - ie. Caracao, Belize, Gibraltar, certain native indian reservations in Canada, etc.
This includes when you're doing online gambling with Harrahs, Ballys Casino's, etc - you're actually gambling with a separate entity that's based in one of the safe haven's.
Because of this, when you gamble with one of the online companies, it's pretty hit & miss whether they're real or whether they're scams and will take you money and not pay your winnings. Even worse, a lot of them will rack up huge charges on your credit cards or sell the #'s to organized criminal rings
better to either fly/drive to Vegas or NJ and place the bet in person, unless you know someone who's successfully used a online company multiple times.
After I retired from the dotcom biz in the early 2000's, I was co-founder & CTO of a startup that was going to be in the casino & online poker arena....in 2003 or 2004 George Bush pushed through that law regarding no credit card companies being allowed to process transactions for any online gaming establishment - which kind of pulled the rug out from under us |
I think the only exception is MSG and paramutual horse racing wagering. |
Yes, and no
when they do parimutuel betting, you can place a bet with a legal parlor in another state (ie. you can place a bet at Santa Anita for the Kentucky derby)
this is legal because you as an individual aren't placing the bet across state lines - you're placing the bet at Santa Anita, who is in the parimutuel partnership with Churchill Downs in Kentucky.
That's more or less the way it works....although the exact details might be different (ie I don't bet on horses, so I have no idea if you can actually place a bet at Santa Anita for the Kentucky Derby)
I don't know anything about MSG, so you've got me there...
There are probably other outlying cases where inter-state gaming may be allowed, since I'm sure the legal case-law on this could fill a bookshelf. I was just giving the generic answer that's accurate the vast majority of cases.
_________________
LBJ + AD = More rings
Never argue with a fool - listeners can't tell you apart
Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI
Last edited by P.K. on Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | It is pointless having a discussion with a mindless person who can't handle reading what one posts and instead makes up things they think were posted. Last word, the Lakers were offered deals for Pau post-CP3 and turned them down because they wanted Pau to remain a Laker. Along with paying him much more than his own contributions. If that is treating him poorly, then most players wish they were that mistreated. |
Post-CP3? How arbitrary.
It's pretty simple. It should be no surprise to anyone that Pau would have lost some motivation after essentially being traded. And then seemingly placed on the block again.
If you were/are surprised by it, you might be right but you'd also be alone so you get points for creativity, but not accuracy. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| P.K. wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | P.K. wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | 24KaratGold wrote: | | How do I bet online on this? Can't seem to find anything |
Can somebody answer this? I wanna know too. |
It's a violation of federal law for any US company to accept bets that cross state lines either through the web or by phone. It's also a violation of US law for any bank or credit card company to process any transaction to any online gambling company...
because of these 2 laws, all online gambling that US residents engage in is with companies that have legal presence in a so called "safe haven" - ie. Caracao, Belize, Gibraltar, certain native indian reservations in Canada, etc.
This includes when you're doing online gambling with Harrahs, Ballys Casino's, etc - you're actually gambling with a separate entity that's based in one of the safe haven's.
Because of this, when you gamble with one of the online companies, it's pretty hit & miss whether they're real or whether they're scams and will take you money and not pay your winnings. Even worse, a lot of them will rack up huge charges on your credit cards or sell the #'s to organized criminal rings
better to either fly/drive to Vegas or NJ and place the bet in person, unless you know someone who's successfully used a online company multiple times.
After I retired from the dotcom biz in the early 2000's, I was co-founder & CTO of a startup that was going to be in the casino & online poker arena....in 2003 or 2004 George Bush pushed through that law regarding no credit card companies being allowed to process transactions for any online gaming establishment - which kind of pulled the rug out from under us |
I think the only exception is MSG and paramutual horse racing wagering. |
Yes, and no
when they do parimutuel betting, you can place a bet with a legal parlor in another state (ie. you can place a bet at Santa Anita for the Kentucky derby)
this is legal because you as an individual aren't placing the bet across state lines - you're placing the bet at Santa Anita, who is in the parimutuel partnership with Churchill Downs in Kentucky.
That's more or less the way it works....although the exact details might be different (ie I don't bet on horses, so I have no idea if you can actually place a bet at Santa Anita for the Kentucky Derby)
I don't know anything about MSG, so you've got me there...
There are probably other outlying cases where inter-state gaming may be allowed, since I'm sure the legal case-law on this could fill a bookshelf. I was just giving the generic answer that's accurate the vast majority of cases. |
Actually it isn't MSG, it is TVG. They market themselves as a US-Licensed provider of online horse racing betting.
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P.K.
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Joined: 10 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | P.K. wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | With that being said, Vegas isn't dumb either. In the end the house usually wins. There will be fans hoping to take that bet hoping they are the lucky ones to beat the odds. |
Someone already explained this, but to cover it again
WRT sports betting, in Vegas the house neither wins nor losses - they TIE, and they want it that way. They want to put the odds or the over/under line at exactly the point where they will totally balance the bets coming in from the public. in other words, they want the total $$ bet on OVER to exactly equal the total $$ bet on UNDER - so the house neither wins nor loses.
The house makes a commission on every single bet placed - this is where they make their money. They make the same commission % on a OVER bet as they do on an UNDER bet.
so, the house gets paid regardless of who wins or losses - and they make every effort to place the line so that the money bet exactly evens out so they have no exposure on this
this is why you'll see the line on sports bets moving over time- the house set the line too high or too low for public sentiment, and too much money is coming in on one side of it and now the house has exposure that they'd have to cover...so, they move the line to balance out the betting and cover their risk |
Exactly. I bet $20, and when I won I was paid $17 in addition to my original $20. So the juice on my win was $3. |
Yep, exactly
For those that haven't been paying attention, if you take the $3 that VLF effectively paid in juice (aka Vig, or commission) and multiply that by the 100,000's of sports bets placed each week that adds up to a ton of money - that is where the casino makes it money on sports betting...on the Vig.
the average rate for Vig at Vegas sports books is about 9%..
for every $100 placed as a bet, the house is getting $9 commission.
according to estimates, gross revenue for Nevada's legal sports books was almost $200 million last year - so, that 9% really adds up
_________________
LBJ + AD = More rings
Never argue with a fool - listeners can't tell you apart
Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI |
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ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| ^ Everybody knows all that already. The point remains that the "line" is typically quite accurate. |
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P.K.
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Joined: 10 Jul 2003
Posts: 29713
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | P.K. wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | P.K. wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | 24KaratGold wrote: | | How do I bet online on this? Can't seem to find anything |
Can somebody answer this? I wanna know too. |
It's a violation of federal law for any US company to accept bets that cross state lines either through the web or by phone. It's also a violation of US law for any bank or credit card company to process any transaction to any online gambling company...
because of these 2 laws, all online gambling that US residents engage in is with companies that have legal presence in a so called "safe haven" - ie. Caracao, Belize, Gibraltar, certain native indian reservations in Canada, etc.
This includes when you're doing online gambling with Harrahs, Ballys Casino's, etc - you're actually gambling with a separate entity that's based in one of the safe haven's.
Because of this, when you gamble with one of the online companies, it's pretty hit & miss whether they're real or whether they're scams and will take you money and not pay your winnings. Even worse, a lot of them will rack up huge charges on your credit cards or sell the #'s to organized criminal rings
better to either fly/drive to Vegas or NJ and place the bet in person, unless you know someone who's successfully used a online company multiple times.
After I retired from the dotcom biz in the early 2000's, I was co-founder & CTO of a startup that was going to be in the casino & online poker arena....in 2003 or 2004 George Bush pushed through that law regarding no credit card companies being allowed to process transactions for any online gaming establishment - which kind of pulled the rug out from under us |
I think the only exception is MSG and paramutual horse racing wagering. |
Yes, and no
when they do parimutuel betting, you can place a bet with a legal parlor in another state (ie. you can place a bet at Santa Anita for the Kentucky derby)
this is legal because you as an individual aren't placing the bet across state lines - you're placing the bet at Santa Anita, who is in the parimutuel partnership with Churchill Downs in Kentucky.
That's more or less the way it works....although the exact details might be different (ie I don't bet on horses, so I have no idea if you can actually place a bet at Santa Anita for the Kentucky Derby)
I don't know anything about MSG, so you've got me there...
There are probably other outlying cases where inter-state gaming may be allowed, since I'm sure the legal case-law on this could fill a bookshelf. I was just giving the generic answer that's accurate the vast majority of cases. |
Actually it isn't MSG, it is TVG. They market themselves as a US-Licensed provider of online horse racing betting. |
I'd defer to your greater knowledge in this case - I don't know much about horse betting other then how parimutuel works. I've just never been interested.
_________________
LBJ + AD = More rings
Never argue with a fool - listeners can't tell you apart
Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI |
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King beef
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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There are 3 three teams who will be worse than the Lakers next year for sure and one question mark (in no particular order).
1.Boston
2.Philly
3.Utah
4.Minnesota
I only question Minny beacuse I have no idea how good Levine, Bennet, Glenn RObinson III or Andrew Wiggins will be. If those players pan out, they will be better than the Lakers also. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| ^ What about Sac? |
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j-wolf
Sixth Man
Joined: 22 Jul 2014
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Location: AB, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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wow. underdog it is.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | ^ Everybody knows all that already. The point remains that the "line" is typically quite accurate. |
0-2
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | ^ Everybody knows all that already. The point remains that the "line" is typically quite accurate. |
0-2 |
The line is 0-2? |
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Omar Little
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Posts: 90306
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | ^ Everybody knows all that already. The point remains that the "line" is typically quite accurate. |
0-2 |
The line is 0-2? |
Batting average on your last post.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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KobeRe-Loaded
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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Barring injuries, this team will win 40 games.
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#Avatar-gate |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | ^ Everybody knows all that already. The point remains that the "line" is typically quite accurate. |
0-2 |
The line is 0-2? |
Batting average on your last post. |
Haha. Yeah, I guess everybody doesn't know that else we wouldn't be having this discussion to begin with.
Frankly, I think the 35-win mark on the LG Fundraiser was perfectly set. Curious how you guys came to that mark. |
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P.K.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | ^ Everybody knows all that already. The point remains that the "line" is typically quite accurate. |
Actually, everybody doesn't know that - since I joined in 2001 I've probably had to explain this at least 3 times a season.
and there are 4-5 other guys that understand odds and betting (and are willing to try to explain it) that probably post a correction about it just as often.
always in relation to someone thinking that the sports books are either totally clueless because of where the line or odds are, or that with such a extreme line the books must know something we don't.
so, there's enough posters on this board that do not understand it enough that it comes up at least 15 times a season that I've seen, and probably more
_________________
LBJ + AD = More rings
Never argue with a fool - listeners can't tell you apart
Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI |
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Scoffs
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| I admit to being a big homer but I think the Lakers are as good as any Eastern Conf team with the exception of Cleveland and Chicago, especially with the injury to Paul George and the decline of Miami. If the Lakers sweep the bad Eastern teams, that's about 30 wins right there. |
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LakerLanny
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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31 seems awfully low, but there is a reason that is the figure.
My guess is the Lakers win 41 games, but I am still not planning to put a lot of money on them winning more than the 31 Vegas has set as the figure.
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Treble Clef
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | ^ Everybody knows all that already. The point remains that the "line" is typically quite accurate. |
Pretty much. If Vegas really felt like the Lakers were significantly better than a 31 win team, they could slide their over/under a little bit and take the entire pot from the pessimists instead of the little 5-10% cut.
It's true that Vegas is trying to accurately predict popular opinion and not the Lakers win total but in general the two things tend to line up relatively closely. |
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golaker
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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I'd be happy taking the over not only because I think the lakers will win more than 31 games, but the lakers will jump at any opportunity to acquire a big name star at any point in the season. Vegas, here I come.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Treble Clef wrote: | Pretty much. If Vegas really felt like the Lakers were significantly better than a 31 win team, they could slide their over/under a little bit and take the entire pot from the pessimists instead of the little 5-10% cut.
It's true that Vegas is trying to accurately predict popular opinion and not the Lakers win total but in general the two things tend to line up relatively closely. |
Right. If they were way off all the time, they'd be out of business. It's not literally a prediction but it's just as good as one. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | Pretty much. If Vegas really felt like the Lakers were significantly better than a 31 win team, they could slide their over/under a little bit and take the entire pot from the pessimists instead of the little 5-10% cut.
It's true that Vegas is trying to accurately predict popular opinion and not the Lakers win total but in general the two things tend to line up relatively closely. |
Right. If they were way off all the time, they'd be out of business. It's not literally a prediction but it's just as good as one. |
I don't think either of you actually understand how a Vegas sports book works. They don't gamble on sports. They match bettors against each other and rake off fees. They aren't slot machines, they're poker dealers. They don't care how many games LA wins, and they don't care if they get it right. They only care about setting and moving the line until they get equal bets on both sides.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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