Hard to guard a guy like Isiah Thomas, one of the quickest PG around. He did make him work for those points.
Why isn't anyone talking about how Price got torched by Bledsoe? That was the much bigger problem. jeremy D-ing up Bledsoe would have been much better. The whole thing about Ronnie Price being better to match up with other teams' starting 1s is ridiculous. Horry is high.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144461 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:12 am Post subject:
24 wrote:
Dondre wrote:
Lin + 12
Lin 6 fouls in 23 minutes..
Needs to play smarter defense.
He's being more aggressive. Refs will adjust.
Yes, Jeremy mentioned that as well after the game. Games like last night are why I was so excited when the Lakers traded for him, even if the critics think it was a panic move. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144461 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:17 am Post subject:
hopandskip wrote:
DJ Slik wrote:
you're not getting it. like airshooter said above, you KNOW that Lin is going to be playing SIGNIFICANT minutes with the first unit players--in particular kobe. he should definitely start, but let's forget that for the moment. regardless of whether or not he starts or finishes or whatever, he NEEDS PRACTICE TIME with the first unit running the offense and communicating on defense. he's going to be playing with them in crucial periods of the game A LOT.
Looks like the rotational approach was to have Price start the game and 2nd half, and then put Lin in later when Kobe was taking a breather (sitting along with the other starters), then bring back the starters while leaving Lin on the floor to finish the 2nd and 4th quarters. Seemed to work to some degree.
Maybe Scott thinks that he needs Lin out there with the 2nd stringers to have an offense at all when the starters sit. Plus, maybe it gives Lin time to study the game from the bench - and get 'mentally' warmed up - before he hits the floor.
Just as long as Lin is in with Davis I will be fine with it. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Byron's defensive philosophy is to commit a lot of fouls...I do not kid.
Not to commit a lot of fouls but to play aggressively pushing the boundaries of physical defense and waiting for the refs to adjust to our play style so we can stay aggressive. The philosophy is sound and it does not mean that he wants us to foul.
Exactly. Some of the best defenders in the NBA do things that would be considered fouls if done by others. But it's mainly because they have already established a rep and a "hard nosed defender".
yes, except we don't have any of those. asking a bunch of mediocre-to-poor defenders to be more physically aggressive can easily backfire.
When you have someone without a rep as a defender, they will get fouls called on them for a while. But they can eventually establish the rep even if they don't currently have it.
Can they? The Jazz (Stockton mostly) weren't very athletic but got away with a lot of dirty tactics because they were sneaky and their coach taught them how to get away with it. If that's what Byron wants to do I'm all for it.
Agreed. I remember the Pistons in their heyday having multiple players fouling at all times on every play, followed by the Knicks in the 90's. The "ground" Jazz were always setting dirty picks, grabbing, and holding as well, especially in the paint. You just can't call a foul on every play, and aggressive defense eventually gets rewarded, especially down the stretch (with a few exceptions, such as the odd call on Lin last night, but hey, it's preseason--much less likely that call gets made in the playoffs).
Also... I know that many here don't realize it... but Nash sets some mean picks sometimes. I mean... full on blatant against the rules moving picks using his hands with arms extended. He's basically pushing guys. But since he's known as a p&r master he gets away with it.
Lin's defense has been top-notch preseason and the portland series. We all know he can play offense but damn, that's an eye-opener to me. I guess the media really bashed on him for no reason.
Forget Davis, Lin was the real steal of this off-season. I'm seriously seeing hope for the Lakers this year....
I think Lin's defence has been underrated. I saw an article that talks about this sometime ago. http://raining3s.com/2014/07/30/jeremy-lins-defense-far-better/ This is probably because people especially the media just recycle the criticism about his defence during the Linsanity era. While googling for this article, I found other sources. One of the sources talked about that when Warriors got him, they actually viewed him as a defense specialist. Yes, you read that right I listened to this video partially but this guy is boring. You can listen to if you want He also mentioned other reasons.
People also tend to forget that a good or great point guard only need to be a good defender within the system (and they also can only be as good as the system allows them to). Byron pointed this out. Given what Byron, Kobe, and Mitch have said so far, I think Lin will bleed purple and gold for a long time, hopefully till he retires ... _________________ "We have a lot of guys that have been kinda discarded ... Myself with the injury and the age. Jeremy ... a bunch of players who other teams really felt they had no use for. So we have that kind of attitude built into ourselves" -- Kobe Bryant
Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 3820 Location: Anaheim, CA
Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:48 am Post subject:
DJ Slik wrote:
bandiger wrote:
Dondre wrote:
Lin + 12
Lin 6 fouls in 23 minutes..
Needs to play smarter defense.
Hard to guard a guy like Isiah Thomas, one of the quickest PG around. He did make him work for those points.
Why isn't anyone talking about how Price got torched by Bledsoe? That was the much bigger problem. jeremy D-ing up Bledsoe would have been much better. The whole thing about Ronnie Price being better to match up with other teams' starting 1s is ridiculous. Horry is high.
Honestly, it's much more to do with Boozer and Hill more so than Price. Lin runs with Davis and Randle who are both quick of foot and can recover better than the other 2 bigs I mentioned. It was really dumb how they were playing Bledsoe yesterday. Hill or Boozer's man would set the pick(mostly Hill's) and both Hill and Price would be so far up on Bledsoe. When Bledsoe turns the corner on the pick, Hill is basically stuck with Price and the guy setting the pick. Bledsoe is not a known jumpshooter yet they kept crowding him over and over. Bledsoe had an open lane to the basket everytime. The Suns played small and you just can't play Boozer and Hill together because Boozer's man stands at the 3 pt line and Hills man sets the pick which basically opens up the middle. Boozer and Hill are too slow to impede the guy driving to the basket and also get back to their man at the 3 pt line.
Yes, Jeremy mentioned that as well after the game. Games like last night are why I was so excited when the Lakers traded for him, even if the critics think it was a panic move.
I thought that the consensus was the trade was a home run for the Lakers? We got a quality player on an expiring contract as well as two draft picks for nothing.
Lin's defense has been top-notch preseason and the portland series. We all know he can play offense but damn, that's an eye-opener to me. I guess the media really bashed on him for no reason.
Forget Davis, Lin was the real steal of this off-season. I'm seriously seeing hope for the Lakers this year....
I think Lin's defence has been underrated. I saw an article that talks about this sometime ago. http://raining3s.com/2014/07/30/jeremy-lins-defense-far-better/ This is probably because people especially the media just recycle the criticism about his defence during the Linsanity era. While googling for this article, I found other sources. One of the sources talked about that when Warriors got him, they actually viewed him as a defense specialist. Yes, you read that right I listened to this video partially but this guy is boring. You can listen to if you want He also mentioned other reasons.
People also tend to forget that a good or great point guard only need to be a good defender within the system (and they also can only be as good as the system allows them to). Byron pointed this out. Given what Byron, Kobe, and Mitch have said so far, I think Lin will bleed purple and gold for a long time, hopefully till he retires ...
The jury is still out on how well Lin will do offensively with the amount of energy he is expending on defense.
Great defense is a black hole for draining your batteries and making your offense suffer. There are probably only a handful of PG that play great D and O like CP3.
I think once his minutes go up his defense or offense will take a hit but I think this is where Nash and Kobe can mentor him. But more importantly, I think this focus on D will probably help Lin become the player he always envisioned himself to be - a true PG, a floor general, a facilitator, someone who will get everyone touches and feeding the hot hand. Which means he won't be calling his own number unless he has to take over.
I guess like many players, there are good matchups and bad ones. He has done great defense on great offensive guards like Tony Parker and Lillard, but struggles against CP3 or Steph Curry.
you play against good players, they're going to get their points. you just want to make it is difficult as possible. curry scored 20 points in 27 minutes. lin scored 14 points in 21 minutes. it's not like curry is that great a defender either.
Well, for one thing, Lin only played vs. their starters, not the case with Curry. They had their 1st team out there against the Lakers' 3rd team for an extended period of time. But it's pre-season and all, so any stats like the ones you cited should be taken with a grain of salt.
Also, if you follow the thread up, I was responding to the point about Lin's defense. I was talking about Lin's defense of those point guards in those match-ups I referenced, not his scoring. Besides which, Lin had near perfect scoring, his only miss was a single free throw. Curry took a lot more shots (and misses) as 1st option, while Lin has near perfect 100% efficiency with only 1 missed free throw to get those 14 pts on 4-4 shooting.
My reference to the Tony Parker/Lillard/CP3/Curry matchups with Lin are about the games he played while on the Rockets (not preseason ones).
He's had good defensive games vs. Parker and Lillard. Like when he did a lot of work keeping Parker's shooting subpar, including chasing down Tony Parker for a block, or when he held Lillard scoreless for an entire 4th quarter till McHale subbed him out on the final possession for Lillard to hit the gamewinner to end the playoff series. But he always had trouble defending against Curry's quick trigger, and CP3 is almost impossible to guard, especially when paired with bigs like Blake Griffin to lob to or set screens for him. Dragic was also a hard one to guard, too, since the Suns like to run him off multiple screens (in contrast, Lin got comparatively fewer screens from the Rockets, where they prefer guys to take their man 1 on 1 off the dribble).
Lin has a lot of thing to learn on the defensive end: tricks he can use, etc
Lin's defense has been top-notch preseason and the portland series. We all know he can play offense but damn, that's an eye-opener to me. I guess the media really bashed on him for no reason.
Forget Davis, Lin was the real steal of this off-season. I'm seriously seeing hope for the Lakers this year....
I think Lin's defence has been underrated. I saw an article that talks about this sometime ago. http://raining3s.com/2014/07/30/jeremy-lins-defense-far-better/ This is probably because people especially the media just recycle the criticism about his defence during the Linsanity era. While googling for this article, I found other sources. One of the sources talked about that when Warriors got him, they actually viewed him as a defense specialist. Yes, you read that right I listened to this video partially but this guy is boring. You can listen to if you want He also mentioned other reasons.
People also tend to forget that a good or great point guard only need to be a good defender within the system (and they also can only be as good as the system allows them to). Byron pointed this out. Given what Byron, Kobe, and Mitch have said so far, I think Lin will bleed purple and gold for a long time, hopefully till he retires ...
The jury is still out on how well Lin will do offensively with the amount of energy he is expending on defense.
Great defense is a black hole for draining your batteries and making your offense suffer. There are probably only a handful of PG that play great D and O like CP3.
I think once his minutes go up his defense or offense will take a hit but I think this is where Nash and Kobe can mentor him. But more importantly, I think this focus on D will probably help Lin become the player he always envisioned himself to be - a true PG, a floor general, a facilitator, someone who will get everyone touches and feeding the hot hand. Which means he won't be calling his own number unless he has to take over.
Yes, I was thinking about this the other day, energy distribution in D and O. You are right that most guards usually try to out play the other guard offensively and are mostly so so on the defensive end. It is inevitable that Lin's D and O will take a hit once his minuets increase and the season gets going. It is about a balance. I was thinking that his bread and butter would be the facilitator, then takes shots when he is open or when he needs to. It is fun basketball when all the guys are involve.
One good thing about Lin is that he is very keen on improving himself, and he is still single. That means more time on improving his craft ... _________________ "We have a lot of guys that have been kinda discarded ... Myself with the injury and the age. Jeremy ... a bunch of players who other teams really felt they had no use for. So we have that kind of attitude built into ourselves" -- Kobe Bryant
Lin's defense has been top-notch preseason and the portland series. We all know he can play offense but damn, that's an eye-opener to me. I guess the media really bashed on him for no reason.
Forget Davis, Lin was the real steal of this off-season. I'm seriously seeing hope for the Lakers this year....
I think Lin's defence has been underrated. I saw an article that talks about this sometime ago. http://raining3s.com/2014/07/30/jeremy-lins-defense-far-better/ This is probably because people especially the media just recycle the criticism about his defence during the Linsanity era. While googling for this article, I found other sources. One of the sources talked about that when Warriors got him, they actually viewed him as a defense specialist. Yes, you read that right I listened to this video partially but this guy is boring. You can listen to if you want He also mentioned other reasons.
People also tend to forget that a good or great point guard only need to be a good defender within the system (and they also can only be as good as the system allows them to). Byron pointed this out. Given what Byron, Kobe, and Mitch have said so far, I think Lin will bleed purple and gold for a long time, hopefully till he retires ...
The jury is still out on how well Lin will do offensively with the amount of energy he is expending on defense.
Great defense is a black hole for draining your batteries and making your offense suffer. There are probably only a handful of PG that play great D and O like CP3.
I think once his minutes go up his defense or offense will take a hit but I think this is where Nash and Kobe can mentor him. But more importantly, I think this focus on D will probably help Lin become the player he always envisioned himself to be - a true PG, a floor general, a facilitator, someone who will get everyone touches and feeding the hot hand. Which means he won't be calling his own number unless he has to take over.
Yes, I was thinking about this the other day, energy distribution in D and O. You are right that most guards usually try to out play the other guard offensively and are mostly so so on the defensive end. It is inevitable that Lin's D and O will take a hit once his minuets increase and the season gets going. It is about a balance. I was thinking that his bread and butter would be the facilitator, then takes shots when he is open or when he needs to. It is fun basketball when all the guys are involve.
One good thing about Lin is that he is very keen on improving himself, and he is still single. That means more time on improving his craft ...
He did well in both ends last night in 32 minutes while directing the show. He probably wasn't prepared for playing that many minutes. He will gets even better.
Just want to come out and say I used to think Lin was way overrated, but seeing him play few games here, he definitely has talent and i'm glad we got him. Now lets just lin lin
Just want to come out and say I used to think Lin was way overrated, but seeing him play few games here, he definitely has talent and i'm glad we got him. Now lets just lin lin
Yes it is just more exciting to watch the game if nothing else. Maybe defense win the game and ISO is more effective for some team but I look for entertainment in sports.
With small sample size,
Ed Davis is the best player during regular season with PER 26.58.
Guess who the a better defender,
Lin's DRtg is 106.1 while Price and Clarkson are both 108.6
You are saying our eye test failed us? But there are thing not showing on stat sheet, people will say.
eye test fail at all times. if it goes too fast you didnt see it clearly nor you hear it from commentators, u probably completely ignore it and go on with the next thing happens. do you remember how many fast break easy basket Lin prevented? estimate a number and just go rewatch the games.
With small sample size,
Ed Davis is the best player during regular season with PER 26.58.
Guess who the a better defender,
Lin's DRtg is 106.1 while Price and Clarkson are both 108.6
You are saying our eye test failed us? But there are thing not showing on stat sheet, people will say.
eye test fail at all times. if it goes too fast you didnt see it clearly nor you hear it from commentators, u probably completely ignore it and go on with the next thing happens. do you remember how many fast break easy basket Lin prevented? estimate a number and just go rewatch the games.
Defensively, remember Price has played with less than stellar defenders in the starting lineup the past few games where the team was regularly down at the 1st quarter.
Lin got to play primarily with Ed Davis. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 8488 Location: The (real) short corner
Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:40 am Post subject:
In Lin's postgame interview, was that a veiled shot at Byron's offense? Talking about how tough the Rockets would be, he mentioned specifically "the way they space", and "their principles on offense". Keep in mind that Morey ball is pretty much the polar opposite of Byron ball.
Last edited by fiendishoc on Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:48 am; edited 1 time in total
With small sample size,
Ed Davis is the best player during regular season with PER 26.58.
Guess who the a better defender,
Lin's DRtg is 106.1 while Price and Clarkson are both 108.6
You are saying our eye test failed us? But there are thing not showing on stat sheet, people will say.
eye test fail at all times. if it goes too fast you didnt see it clearly nor you hear it from commentators, u probably completely ignore it and go on with the next thing happens. do you remember how many fast break easy basket Lin prevented? estimate a number and just go rewatch the games.
Defensively, remember Price has played with less than stellar defenders in the starting lineup the past few games where the team was regularly down at the 1st quarter.
Lin got to play primarily with Ed Davis.
btw I love ed davis...that dude has fun on the court...his little shimmy dance he does after a big play is awesome...lol
With small sample size,
Ed Davis is the best player during regular season with PER 26.58.
Guess who the a better defender,
Lin's DRtg is 106.1 while Price and Clarkson are both 108.6
You are saying our eye test failed us? But there are thing not showing on stat sheet, people will say.
eye test fail at all times. if it goes too fast you didnt see it clearly nor you hear it from commentators, u probably completely ignore it and go on with the next thing happens. do you remember how many fast break easy basket Lin prevented? estimate a number and just go rewatch the games.
Defensively, remember Price has played with less than stellar defenders in the starting lineup the past few games where the team was regularly down at the 1st quarter.
Lin got to play primarily with Ed Davis.
Lin got to play a lot of minutes with those 2nd/3rd unit inferior defenders too, including Randle, Ellington, and Roscoe Smith(did i spell his name right?).
and if ED and Lin together produce good defense just start them both, fit right in the coaches plan while increase the starting unit's fire power.
Yeah, I thought Lin was overhyped but then you see how easily he can drive to the basket and he's pretty smart with the ball most times. Once he can get that turnovers down, he'll be a force to reckon with. He can be like Parker, I guess.
In Lin's postgame interview, was that a veiled shot at Byron's offense? Talking about how tough the Rockets would be, he mentioned specifically "the way they space", and "their principles on offense". Keep in mind that Morey ball is pretty much the polar opposite of Byron ball.
Lin's sometimes overly honest in interviews, imo. But he doesn't seem the kind of guy to take shots, especially at Scott, who it seems he genuinely likes
In Lin's postgame interview, was that a veiled shot at Byron's offense? Talking about how tough the Rockets would be, he mentioned specifically "the way they space", and "their principles on offense". Keep in mind that Morey ball is pretty much the polar opposite of Byron ball.
u r reaching, I think he just answered the question honestly.
This is an interview of Jeremy's high school coach. What's interesting is what Diepenbrock says after 1 minute mark about how Lin's strength is running the show, how being a leader out there, that is his game. This interview was soon after Lin got signed by the Warriors -- way before linsanity, any of that.
.. it just brings me back to ... does Scott know what he is doing by letting Lin play with second unit, where there is noone like Kobe that Lin has to defer to. Letting Lin develop his confidence and chemistry with the guys who are probably in the Lakers' long range future. And letting Lin play more the leader role.
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I listened to this video partially but this guy is boring. You can listen to if you want He also mentioned other reasons.
