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Shaqtin
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Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 635
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 Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| We will see what Lin can do once Kobe takes a rest for a game. |
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timo
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Joined: 07 Dec 2014
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Shaqtin wrote: | | We will see what Lin can do once Kobe takes a rest for a game. |
he will probably come off the bench and play only 20mins |
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LIN17
Sixth Man
Joined: 17 Jul 2014
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | Richmond wrote: | | bws94 wrote: | | Captain America wrote: | | bws94 wrote: | | Bruhhh24 wrote: | | kfkilla wrote: | | Is Lin starting again or what? I never get the hate for Lin. I still think he's an above average PG. Not sure why people hate on him so much. |
Because people expect more out of him for what he's getting paid.
He is a good player, he is just mentally weak. If he just gave no (bleep) and went out there and balled, he'd play great, albeit with tons of turnovers probably.
Then again, people are expecting too much. Some of you need to realize he went undrafted out of friggen Harvard, and nobody expected this guy to even make it into the league, let alone get this far. So if you look at it this way, he is technically a scrub lol, if that makes sense. |
I think it is more because of a portion of over-zealous fans that blame others and not mention how Lin has to help himself and perform better. The stuff about him being "mentally weak" is highly debatable. He's one of those guys that can perform when he puts his mind to it, so he shows mental strength at times, the fact that he is in the league shows he has some mental toughness. So he shouldn't be dismissed as mentally weak. There's something else going on, and it isn't that simple. It's a number of things involved, some internal and some external responsible for Lin's underwhelming overall play as a Laker. |
If Lins been underwhelming what do we call the play of the rest of this team? I actually think he's been one of the brighter spots of our roster. |
He's definitely underwhelming. His PPG is and his defense isn't as good as it could be. He has no 25 plus scoring games, this time last year he had at least 3 and 2 back-to-back 30 plus games with big assists. He did nothing against Houston yet as a Rocket he burned his former team the Knicks almost every time he played them.
When people think of Lin they think of a penetrator, I think that is his signature quality. He doesn't seem to be using that quality well in most games. Now, are there reasons for it? Sure, there are some but he is in a contract year and needs to put up some stats. This is underwhelming play by Lin. He hasn't had big 4th quarters for the Lakers like he is capable of doing (aside from the last game), hasn't taken charge on the court as a floor general, has played so-so defense at times, hasn't showed the Laker fans just how good and strong a player he is. If most people are saying Lin is only a backup, he hasn't performed well although for some, that's all he'll ever be.
The other guys should go in their thread, but I like what I've seen from Davis and most of what I've seen from Hill. Young is mostly good, but he's a chucker that needs to pass the ball more. And yes, others have been underwhelming as well. Scott has been the most underwhelming Laker in my book. |
Watch Lin...when he starts taking off for the hoop in transition, he'll pull up and wait for his team. Scott seemingly doesn't like run and gun ball and this has absolutely impacted Lin's game. |
Scott doesn't mind running and pushing the pace on fast breaks at all. He just doesn't want Kobe to have to do it or Boozer.
That said Scott has said multiple times that the point of that bench unit is to push the pace and put pressure on 2nd units. That's the unit he wants to get out and run more.
ALSO keep in mind that Scott's vision of that second unit is a bit different than the one he had at the beginning of the year.
Our 2nd unit was originally to be
Jeremy Lin
Nick Young
Wayne Ellington
Julius Randle
Ed Davis
That was the original idea.
Then Young injured his hand, then Nash went down.
Scott still wanted Lin running the End faster unit although the fans were crucifying Scott for even bringing Lin off the bench despite the fact he'd usually finish games with Kobe regardless.
That was still his plan ending the pre-season.
But that game both Ronnie Price AND Wayne Ellington got injured.
So it changed a lot.
Then the first game of the season Randle was hit with a season ending injury.
And suddenly the 2nd unit Scott wanted Lin to be leading was completely destroyed in a single pre-season and first of the season.
So think about that too.
Because we have no Randle(who would have taken the starting spot from Boozer by now) and no Kelly. Davis now starts at the 4 which means he isn't in the End unit and Sacre has to get minutes because of it.
We never got to see what Scott's vision of the End unit was gonna be bar a few times in the pre-season when they looked devastating and the lin/davis pick and roll unstoppable. And that was even without Young.
But things didn't turn out that way and stuff had to be improvised and still is being improvised till Kelly gets back.
But we'll never see the End unit Lin was supposed to lead.
Not this year anyway.
What should be paid attention to but hasn't is that the Lakers were willing to put up nash's contract and jordan hill in a trade for Rondo but weren't willing to put up Lin or Davis.
That says enough right there about how the Lalkers feel about them. |
If the starters underperform their opponents every night with a slower pace, would it not be better to bring them off the bench to let the first group player faster and have longer rest? |
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Shaqtin
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Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 635
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| timo wrote: | | Shaqtin wrote: | | We will see what Lin can do once Kobe takes a rest for a game. |
he will probably come off the bench and play only 20mins |
Line up will probably change since starters alway get into a 10 pt deficit. Byron Scott is getting a lot of heat with every loss. |
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fafan
Star Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2014
Posts: 1476
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Shaqtin wrote: | | timo wrote: | | Shaqtin wrote: | | We will see what Lin can do once Kobe takes a rest for a game. |
he will probably come off the bench and play only 20mins |
Line up will probably change since starters alway get into a 10 pt deficit. Byron Scott is getting a lot of heat with every loss. |
BS made very stupid change. Only Kobe run the offense in the 1 unit with 4 slow players. How on earth this will work!
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"Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." --Sarah Cook. |
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timo
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Joined: 07 Dec 2014
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Shaqtin wrote: | | timo wrote: | | Shaqtin wrote: | | We will see what Lin can do once Kobe takes a rest for a game. |
he will probably come off the bench and play only 20mins |
Line up will probably change since starters alway get into a 10 pt deficit. Byron Scott is getting a lot of heat with every loss. |
I already lost my faith in BS. None of his dumb move will surprise me anymore. |
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jenopogi
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Joined: 11 Jul 2014
Posts: 253
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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relax guys. just signed in today for TEAM TANK. It makes losses more bearable.
My wish is now just to Fast Forward the season and take it from there.
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kastuul
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Joined: 22 Jul 2014
Posts: 197
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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Lin did play well in HOU without Harden.
Will Linsanity happen if Kobe sit out?
I don't think so. GSW is a great team.
BS won't start Lin. He will put Young to the starting lineup. |
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fafan
Star Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2014
Posts: 1476
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| kastuul wrote: | Lin did play well in HOU without Harden.
Will Linsanity happen if Kobe sit out?
I don't think so. GSW is a great team.
BS won't start Lin. He will put Young to the starting lineup. |
Now, it doesn't matter if Lin be a starter. Just hope he can play enough time and in the right way like last game. That will be fine.
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"Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." --Sarah Cook. |
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xenojoey
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Joined: 18 Nov 2014
Posts: 635
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeremy Lin is the only one calling out selfish play in his post game interviews. Although he is cautious not to direct his statements towards Kobe, he always talks about how the team should play unselfishly and play team basketball. His statements probably earned him the bench and limited minutes, but atleast he is standing up for the team. Everyone else just says Kobe is Kobe in their interviews cause they know what will happen if they were to criticize Kobe. We need more players to stand up to Kobe and hopefully Kobe will get the memo and start adjusting his game to be more efficient |
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fafan
Star Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2014
Posts: 1476
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| xenojoey wrote: | | Jeremy Lin is the only one calling out selfish play in his post game interviews. Although he is cautious not to direct his statements towards Kobe, he always talks about how the team should play unselfishly and play team basketball. His statements probably earned him the bench and limited minutes, but atleast he is standing up for the team. Everyone else just says Kobe is Kobe in their interviews cause they know what will happen if they were to criticize Kobe. We need more players to stand up to Kobe and hopefully Kobe will get the memo and start adjusting his game to be more efficient |
Lin said was correct.
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"Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." --Sarah Cook. |
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Lorenzomax
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Joined: 11 Nov 2014
Posts: 660
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| JLinfanJoe wrote: | Lakers down by 2 when Lin sub'd out with 5 minutes remaining.
Lakers lost game by 7 points.
In Houston, Lin would be portrayed as the reason Rockets lost a game like this (even though his simple plus minus for whole game was -1). It was very easy to do because 60% of Houston couldn't watch Rockets games on their tvs for the whole time Lin was a Rocket (http://www.khou.com/story/news/2014/07/22/11861564/)
Darren Collison also suddenly seemed to start being more of a force on offense immediately after Price got sub'd for Lin (assists and own individual scoring).
Lin's on ball defense also looks a bit different last few games (the low crouch, and also how he trails hugging his player with his hand out). Wonder if an assistant coach is actually working with him, trying to make him a better on ball defender. |
FIFY. 5:05 Jordan Hill enters the game for Jeremy Lin 91-93 |
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BigislandHank
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Joined: 08 Oct 2014
Posts: 219
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Shaqtin wrote: | | We will see what Lin can do once Kobe takes a rest for a game. |
I predict that BS will play him LESS. |
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DJ Slik
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Joined: 11 Jul 2014
Posts: 432
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| i can get a better winning percentage than byron scott with very simple (bleep) level adjustments--play davis with lin, bench ronnie price completely and play clarkson (clarkson will be net positive over RP within 3 or 4 games). play kobe 30 min max. DJ Slik > byron scott as coach. end of story. |
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fafan
Star Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2014
Posts: 1476
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| DJ Slik wrote: | | i can get a better winning percentage than byron scott with very simple (bleep) level adjustments--play davis with lin, bench ronnie price completely and play clarkson (clarkson will be net positive over RP within 3 or 4 games). play kobe 30 min max. DJ Slik > byron scott as coach. end of story. |
BS=< No coach!
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"Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." --Sarah Cook. |
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cheesysapien
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Joined: 15 Oct 2014
Posts: 357
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: |
What should be paid attention to but hasn't is that the Lakers were willing to put up nash's contract and jordan hill in a trade for Rondo but weren't willing to put up Lin or Davis.
That says enough right there about how the Lalkers feel about them. |
That is a very good point
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"We have a lot of guys that have been kinda discarded ... Myself with the injury and the age. Jeremy ... a bunch of players who other teams really felt they had no use for. So we have that kind of attitude built into ourselves" -- Kobe Bryant |
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Reflexx
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Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 11163
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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I bet that the front office wants to see Lin/Davis too.
Buy on may be afraid to have them on the floor too much because if they are effective it may undermine things he's said about why he didn't do it earlier. |
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Dreamshake
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13712
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| JuanCesta wrote: | | The double standards for Lin are incredible and shameless. Lin literally has to put up all star numbers just keep people from calling him a "bust" or a "fluke" or questioning if he belongs in the NBA. |
That's not true. The only people who seem to have those expectations for Lin reside in his fanbase. Folks in NY seemed to realize his spurt was not the norm for him. They didn't expect superstar play. Their only beef with Lin was him not playing in the playoffs when some thought he could gut it out. When he signed in Houston we weren't expecting superstar play. Going through this thread most here weren't expecting superstar play from him either. Most seem to think he is what his numbers/play have shown him to be....an average PG (at best) that could start for a few teams in the league but probably isn't a guy you want starting. There are just a lot of really good PG's in the league now. Folks can continue to point fingers at systems, coaches or other players, but what's consistently happening is Lin's play is saying that he is at best an average PG in this league.
| JuanCesta wrote: |
Here is some food for thought. At no time has any of the PGs that replaced Lin on teams, whose coaches felt were a better "fit", at no time have they ever put up better numbers than Lin in PPG, FG% FT% TS% or APG.
That goes for Felton, Beverley the dancing Scrub and of course Ronnie freaking Price. |
I'm not really sure if that is the best way to look at it. Just taking Houston for example, Beverly wasn't expected to put up better numbers than Lin. He started because he was expected to give us better defensive pressure on PG's, and because we needed offense off the bench. |
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rookie75094
Sixth Man
Joined: 11 Nov 2014
Posts: 41
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: | | JuanCesta wrote: | | The double standards for Lin are incredible and shameless. Lin literally has to put up all star numbers just keep people from calling him a "bust" or a "fluke" or questioning if he belongs in the NBA. |
That's not true. The only people who seem to have those expectations for Lin reside in his fanbase. Folks in NY seemed to realize his spurt was not the norm for him. They didn't expect superstar play. Their only beef with Lin was him not playing in the playoffs when some thought he could gut it out. When he signed in Houston we weren't expecting superstar play. Going through this thread most here weren't expecting superstar play from him either. Most seem to think he is what his numbers/play have shown him to be....an average PG (at best) that could start for a few teams in the league but probably isn't a guy you want starting. There are just a lot of really good PG's in the league now. Folks can continue to point fingers at systems, coaches or other players, but what's consistently happening is Lin's play is saying that he is at best an average PG in this league.
| JuanCesta wrote: |
Here is some food for thought. At no time has any of the PGs that replaced Lin on teams, whose coaches felt were a better "fit", at no time have they ever put up better numbers than Lin in PPG, FG% FT% TS% or APG.
That goes for Felton, Beverley the dancing Scrub and of course Ronnie freaking Price. |
I'm not really sure if that is the best way to look at it. Just taking Houston for example, Beverly wasn't expected to put up better numbers than Lin. He started because he was expected to give us better defensive pressure on PG's, and because we needed offense off the bench. |
The Rockets are dead to me... no points digging up rotten corpses |
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bws94
Star Player
Joined: 28 Oct 2014
Posts: 1563
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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Again this stuff about Lin being "average" is boring to me. So is the "inconsistent" label because it all sounds like a narrative. Lin is certainly above average when he plays like he can and below average when he doesn't but does that make him average or does that mean someone can't bring out his best? Why does it have to be on Lin, maybe it is the failure of someone to bring out a player's best. That's what we've seen in the last 2 coaches.
Lin isn't the story tonight. Tonight is a story of incredible incompetence displayed by a head coach. A head coach that is making the journalist watching basketball rather disturbed by what they see. A head coach that is destroying a basketball legend and making a mockery of this player. A head coach that has overloaded this player, overusing him, and driving his legacy to making him look like a shell of his former brilliant self.
So this coach that thinks Clarkson is invisible or unusable can help develop a still developing player in Lin? This coach is pulling stuff out of thin air in false belief that if he keeps repeating something and using a worn out player, he'll strike gold.
Whatever any player does on the Lakers is despite the coach. And nobody is doing anything particularly consistently, except try to win when their coach sets them up to lose. They even pull it off sometimes. |
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zambia
Star Player
Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 1192
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Are the Lakers paying the full 14.8 mil to Lin. Does not make sense to basically pay 14.8 mil for a 1st round pick in the later round. |
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Dreamshake
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13712
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| bws94 wrote: | | Lin is certainly above average when he plays like he can and below average when he doesn't but does that make him average or does that mean someone can't bring out his best? |
Your real life production is what makes you, not if's. Lin's production is:
2012 - 15/3/6/1.6 on 45%, 32% and 80% shooting
2013 - 13/3/6/1.6 on 44%, 34% and 79% shooting
2014 - 13/3/4/1 on 45%, 36% and 82% shooting
2015 - 11/3/5/0.9 on 43%, 33% and 82% shooting
The picture is pretty clear. That's average production for a PG in this league. Half the players in the league can say they are not playing under the right coach or system, but at the end of the day it's up to them to produce when they are on the court. You are your production....period. And his production is, at best, average.
| bws94 wrote: | | Why does it have to be on Lin, maybe it is the failure of someone to bring out a player's best. |
Why is a players production ultimately on the player? |
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Reflexx
Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 11163
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| Out of players that play at least 8 min a game, is there any 2 player combo that shares the floor less tan Lin/Davis? |
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rayfantastic
Sixth Man
Joined: 06 Oct 2014
Posts: 47
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:30 am Post subject: |
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| Reflexx wrote: | | Out of players that play at least 8 min a game, is there any 2 player combo that shares the floor less tan Lin/Davis? |
So BS's stealth tank is not so stealth after all. |
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fafan
Star Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2014
Posts: 1476
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:39 am Post subject: |
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| Reflexx wrote: | | Out of players that play at least 8 min a game, is there any 2 player combo that shares the floor less tan Lin/Davis? |
Nash/Randle 
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"Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." --Sarah Cook. |
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