The double standards for Lin are incredible and shameless. Lin literally has to put up all star numbers just keep people from calling him a "bust" or a "fluke" or questioning if he belongs in the NBA.
That's not true. The only people who seem to have those expectations for Lin reside in his fanbase. Folks in NY seemed to realize his spurt was not the norm for him. They didn't expect superstar play. Their only beef with Lin was him not playing in the playoffs when some thought he could gut it out. When he signed in Houston we weren't expecting superstar play. Going through this thread most here weren't expecting superstar play from him either. Most seem to think he is what his numbers/play have shown him to be....an average PG (at best) that could start for a few teams in the league but probably isn't a guy you want starting. There are just a lot of really good PG's in the league now. Folks can continue to point fingers at systems, coaches or other players, but what's consistently happening is Lin's play is saying that he is at best an average PG in this league.
JuanCesta wrote:
Here is some food for thought. At no time has any of the PGs that replaced Lin on teams, whose coaches felt were a better "fit", at no time have they ever put up better numbers than Lin in PPG, FG% FT% TS% or APG.
That goes for Felton, Beverley the dancing Scrub and of course Ronnie freaking Price.
I'm not really sure if that is the best way to look at it. Just taking Houston for example, Beverly wasn't expected to put up better numbers than Lin. He started because he was expected to give us better defensive pressure on PG's, and because we needed offense off the bench.
The Rockets are dead to me... no points digging up rotten corpses
Hes too worry about the rockets who lose 2 straight. Next 3 would be Portland, Grizzles and Spurs. They are in danger losing 5 straight. So he misses lin. lol.
Many props to the mods. I've returned after wandering into the cesspool of a certain lakers' blog that shall not be named. The ridiculous Lin flame wars are amazing there. The mods here have done a superb job keeping things pretty even keel here, even with some pretty crazy takes both ways.
We will see what Lin can do once Kobe takes a rest for a game.
he will probably come off the bench and play only 20mins
You just know that B.Scott will do that to! Don't underestimate B.Scott.
Why wouldn't he? It isn't like Lin has shown much of anything. He can't shoot, can't finish around decent bigs and turns the ball over frequently. He is a good playmaker but his turnovers offset even that.
Unless you can make Lin a top-dog on a team full of elite off-ball players, Lin can't really function on a talented team.
We will see what Lin can do once Kobe takes a rest for a game.
he will probably come off the bench and play only 20mins
You just know that B.Scott will do that to! Don't underestimate B.Scott.
Why wouldn't he? It isn't like Lin has shown much of anything. He can't shoot, can't finish around decent bigs and turns the ball over frequently. He is a good playmaker but his turnovers offset even that.
Unless you can make Lin a top-dog on a team full of elite off-ball players, Lin can't really function on a talented team.
Well the bench dug the starters out of that 1st quarter hole.
Again this stuff about Lin being "average" is boring to me. So is the "inconsistent" label because it all sounds like a narrative.
He might be above average, but he is most definitely inconsistent. He's the type of player that can't make it happen like the greats do - he needs everything to go right in order to be at his best. He's completely inflexible.
There can't be another good player on the perimeter. He can't be expected to catch and shoot. He has to play at a certain tempo.
Enough is enough. He's a good player but when the slightest thing goes wrong he gets in his own head. Not mentally strong enough to be a great player. Nothing to do with coaching.
We will see what Lin can do once Kobe takes a rest for a game.
he will probably come off the bench and play only 20mins
You just know that B.Scott will do that to! Don't underestimate B.Scott.
Why wouldn't he? It isn't like Lin has shown much of anything. He can't shoot, can't finish around decent bigs and turns the ball over frequently. He is a good playmaker but his turnovers offset even that.
Unless you can make Lin a top-dog on a team full of elite off-ball players, Lin can't really function on a talented team.
Well the bench dug the starters out of that 1st quarter hole.
He's a great second-unit player as he can be top-dog there. I do like his game, I'm just not sold on his ability to play with great players.
i do get a little sad about what could have been if we were under d'antoni.
can you imagine lin being the primary ball handler under d'antoni system again, with him pnr with ed davis on one possession for an alley oop. as the defenders adjust against it, he does a pick and pop with jordan hill on his new, improved mid range jumper. and then he digs in and kicks it out to young/ellington on the corner for a swish... or a long pass from top of the key to wes johnson who cuts to the board behind everyone for a nice jam? as lin picks up a turnover on one of the possession, kobe, who has adopted more of vince carter type of player in his later years, quickly grabs him and gives him some gritty veteran love. and in the last 5 minutes of the game, kobe comes in for his 25th minute after having the chance to get a good rest for a quarter for the game winner.
We will see what Lin can do once Kobe takes a rest for a game.
he will probably come off the bench and play only 20mins
You just know that B.Scott will do that to! Don't underestimate B.Scott.
Why wouldn't he? It isn't like Lin has shown much of anything. He can't shoot, can't finish around decent bigs and turns the ball over frequently. He is a good playmaker but his turnovers offset even that.
Unless you can make Lin a top-dog on a team full of elite off-ball players, Lin can't really function on a talented team.
Lin's averaging 10.5 ppg, 5 apg, and 43% FG all while playing only 27 minutes a game. He's not the best PG, but his stats show he's a pretty good player.
We will see what Lin can do once Kobe takes a rest for a game.
he will probably come off the bench and play only 20mins
You just know that B.Scott will do that to! Don't underestimate B.Scott.
Why wouldn't he? It isn't like Lin has shown much of anything. He can't shoot, can't finish around decent bigs and turns the ball over frequently. He is a good playmaker but his turnovers offset even that.
Unless you can make Lin a top-dog on a team full of elite off-ball players, Lin can't really function on a talented team.
Lin's averaging 10.5 ppg, 5 apg, and 43% FG all while playing only 27 minutes a game. He's not the best PG, but his stats show he's a pretty good player.
10 and 5 on 43% isn't very good. He's on the borderline between decent starter/good backup. Look I'm not hating, I just don't understand the hype. He's a fine player, just not necessarily a starting-caliber NBA pg.
We will see what Lin can do once Kobe takes a rest for a game.
he will probably come off the bench and play only 20mins
You just know that B.Scott will do that to! Don't underestimate B.Scott.
Why wouldn't he? It isn't like Lin has shown much of anything. He can't shoot, can't finish around decent bigs and turns the ball over frequently. He is a good playmaker but his turnovers offset even that.
Unless you can make Lin a top-dog on a team full of elite off-ball players, Lin can't really function on a talented team.
Lin's averaging 10.5 ppg, 5 apg, and 43% FG all while playing only 27 minutes a game. He's not the best PG, but his stats show he's a pretty good player.
10 and 5 on 43% isn't very good. He's on the borderline between decent starter/good backup. Look I'm not hating, I just don't understand the hype. He's a fine player, just not necessarily a starting-caliber NBA pg.
We will see what Lin can do once Kobe takes a rest for a game.
he will probably come off the bench and play only 20mins
You just know that B.Scott will do that to! Don't underestimate B.Scott.
Why wouldn't he? It isn't like Lin has shown much of anything. He can't shoot, can't finish around decent bigs and turns the ball over frequently. He is a good playmaker but his turnovers offset even that.
Unless you can make Lin a top-dog on a team full of elite off-ball players, Lin can't really function on a talented team.
just not good with ball dominant SGs
Perhaps a good fit with dominant SGs.
Lin's averaging 10.5 ppg, 5 apg, and 43% FG all while playing only 27 minutes a game. He's not the best PG, but his stats show he's a pretty good player.
10 and 5 on 43% isn't very good. He's on the borderline between decent starter/good backup. Look I'm not hating, I just don't understand the hype. He's a fine player, just not necessarily a starting-caliber NBA pg.
Lin is certainly above average when he plays like he can and below average when he doesn't but does that make him average or does that mean someone can't bring out his best?
Your real life production is what makes you, not if's. Lin's production is:
2012 - 15/3/6/1.6 on 45%, 32% and 80% shooting
2013 - 13/3/6/1.6 on 44%, 34% and 79% shooting
2014 - 13/3/4/1 on 45%, 36% and 82% shooting
2015 - 11/3/5/0.9 on 43%, 33% and 82% shooting
The picture is pretty clear. That's average production for a PG in this league. Half the players in the league can say they are not playing under the right coach or system, but at the end of the day it's up to them to produce when they are on the court. You are your production....period. And his production is, at best, average.
bws94 wrote:
Why does it have to be on Lin, maybe it is the failure of someone to bring out a player's best.
Why is a players production ultimately on the player?
Those are a bunch of numbers. It doesn't deal with real-world situations of the circumstances around them. "Inconsistent" is a narrative, and so is average, and it is boring for me no matter how much you repeat it. Mere repetition is just that for me. He is an above average talent and sometimes you have to figure out how to utilize it and get it out. Sometimes it just takes time to get it out.
I think he's a developing player who isn't that far along in his career. I really don't care about those numbers much. When you play you play up to your capabilities or not. He may play average overall, or even below average. That is not the same as being average.
Lin is certainly above average when he plays like he can and below average when he doesn't but does that make him average or does that mean someone can't bring out his best?
Your real life production is what makes you, not if's. Lin's production is:
2012 - 15/3/6/1.6 on 45%, 32% and 80% shooting
2013 - 13/3/6/1.6 on 44%, 34% and 79% shooting
2014 - 13/3/4/1 on 45%, 36% and 82% shooting
2015 - 11/3/5/0.9 on 43%, 33% and 82% shooting
The picture is pretty clear. That's average production for a PG in this league. Half the players in the league can say they are not playing under the right coach or system, but at the end of the day it's up to them to produce when they are on the court. You are your production....period. And his production is, at best, average.
bws94 wrote:
Why does it have to be on Lin, maybe it is the failure of someone to bring out a player's best.
Why is a players production ultimately on the player?
Don't agree with that. Put a base stealing outfielder in the 5th slot in the batting order...stolen bases go down. Play a receiver in a triple option offense...less yards and catches. Lin has had the misfortune of playing with 3 ballstoppers (4 if you count Swaggy) and Kobe seems to be taking it to a new level.
In a different example, Goran Dragic's lifetime numbers aren't all that impressive but his last few years with the Suns, he's been getting 30+ minutes a game. He's gone from a decent shooter to an excellent shooter with good production.
Lin is certainly above average when he plays like he can and below average when he doesn't but does that make him average or does that mean someone can't bring out his best?
Your real life production is what makes you, not if's. Lin's production is:
2012 - 15/3/6/1.6 on 45%, 32% and 80% shooting
2013 - 13/3/6/1.6 on 44%, 34% and 79% shooting
2014 - 13/3/4/1 on 45%, 36% and 82% shooting
2015 - 11/3/5/0.9 on 43%, 33% and 82% shooting
The picture is pretty clear. That's average production for a PG in this league. Half the players in the league can say they are not playing under the right coach or system, but at the end of the day it's up to them to produce when they are on the court. You are your production....period. And his production is, at best, average.
bws94 wrote:
Why does it have to be on Lin, maybe it is the failure of someone to bring out a player's best.
Why is a players production ultimately on the player?
Don't agree with that. Put a base stealing outfielder in the 5th slot in the batting order...stolen bases go down. Play a receiver in a triple option offense...less yards and catches. Lin has had the misfortune of playing with 3 ballstoppers (4 if you count Swaggy) and Kobe seems to be taking it to a new level.
In a different example, Goran Dragic's lifetime numbers aren't all that impressive but his last few years with the Suns, he's been getting 30+ minutes a game. He's gone from a decent shooter to an excellent shooter with good production.
Dragic is a well above-average player that for seasons put up average numbers. Putting up average numbers doesn't make you average. You have to watch players to see what type of abilities they have and ask what are the total circumstances around these numbers. And Dragic is getting closer to his best in skill level. Lin is a ways off from his best in skill level in terms of handles, defense, ways to finish around the rim, variety of shots, reading defense and passing angles, clock management, he's still developing these aspects of his game. It is premature to say who he is as a player now. And a good coach or mentor can help his progress, that is what Steve Nash was supposed to do this season (mentor Lin).
We will see what Lin can do once Kobe takes a rest for a game.
he will probably come off the bench and play only 20mins
You just know that B.Scott will do that to! Don't underestimate B.Scott.
Why wouldn't he? It isn't like Lin has shown much of anything. He can't shoot, can't finish around decent bigs and turns the ball over frequently. He is a good playmaker but his turnovers offset even that.
Unless you can make Lin a top-dog on a team full of elite off-ball players, Lin can't really function on a talented team.
Lin's averaging 10.5 ppg, 5 apg, and 43% FG all while playing only 27 minutes a game. He's not the best PG, but his stats show he's a pretty good player.
10 and 5 on 43% isn't very good. He's on the borderline between decent starter/good backup. Look I'm not hating, I just don't understand the hype. He's a fine player, just not necessarily a starting-caliber NBA
pg.
WHo's your favourite player and why?
Cedric Ceballos.
The main reason is because I started following in 1990-91, Magic's last year. The first first four years I was a Laker fan were pretty dim. Cedric (in 1994-95) was our fist all-star since James Worthy. Hell, at the time I thought he was just as good as Worthy. I've since realized that Worthy was a true HOF player and Ced was merely an all-star, but being 11 and seeing your first new-generation Laker team is a powerful thing.
More specifically, I loved how efficient he was. He didn't need plays drawn up for him. He didn't even need the ball to score. He averaged eight boards as a small forward (along with 20 points) on +50% shooting without needing the ball. He was a freak. Not a dynasty-level freak, but a basketball freak nonetheless.
I miss Cedric Ceballos. I miss Eddie Jones and Van Exel, too.
We will see what Lin can do once Kobe takes a rest for a game.
he will probably come off the bench and play only 20mins
You just know that B.Scott will do that to! Don't underestimate B.Scott.
Why wouldn't he? It isn't like Lin has shown much of anything. He can't shoot, can't finish around decent bigs and turns the ball over frequently. He is a good playmaker but his turnovers offset even that.
Unless you can make Lin a top-dog on a team full of elite off-ball players, Lin can't really function on a talented team.
I agree. Scott has no faculties to realize how to utilize his players strengths. Any average jv coach would know, Lin will succeed if you put him in screen and roll situations. Even better if you pair him with Ed Davis, a guy who dives to the basket.. . But Byron is all so clueless, probably an idiot, that he wants Lin to be a catch and shoot shooting guard. The only way Lin can get into Byron's good side is to probably turn himself into some modern day version of Reggie Miller or Ray Allen. ..until then, its going to be tough for Lin. _________________ "Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it."
We will see what Lin can do once Kobe takes a rest for a game.
he will probably come off the bench and play only 20mins
You just know that B.Scott will do that to! Don't underestimate B.Scott.
Why wouldn't he? It isn't like Lin has shown much of anything. He can't shoot, can't finish around decent bigs and turns the ball over frequently. He is a good playmaker but his turnovers offset even that.
Unless you can make Lin a top-dog on a team full of elite off-ball players, Lin can't really function on a talented team.
We will see what Lin can do once Kobe takes a rest for a game.
he will probably come off the bench and play only 20mins
You just know that B.Scott will do that to! Don't underestimate B.Scott.
Why wouldn't he? It isn't like Lin has shown much of anything. He can't shoot, can't finish around decent bigs and turns the ball over frequently. He is a good playmaker but his turnovers offset even that.
Unless you can make Lin a top-dog on a team full of elite off-ball players, Lin can't really function on a talented team.
Lin's averaging 10.5 ppg, 5 apg, and 43% FG all while playing only 27 minutes a game. He's not the best PG, but his stats show he's a pretty good player.
10 and 5 on 43% isn't very good. He's on the borderline between decent starter/good backup. Look I'm not hating, I just don't understand the hype. He's a fine player, just not necessarily a starting-caliber NBA pg.
We will see what Lin can do once Kobe takes a rest for a game.
he will probably come off the bench and play only 20mins
You just know that B.Scott will do that to! Don't underestimate B.Scott.
Why wouldn't he? It isn't like Lin has shown much of anything. He can't shoot, can't finish around decent bigs and turns the ball over frequently. He is a good playmaker but his turnovers offset even that.
Unless you can make Lin a top-dog on a team full of elite off-ball players, Lin can't really function on a talented team.
I am a Lin fan.
I did not really watch basketball since MJ's retire. But Linsanity draw my attention back. The best about Linsanity is how a group of second or third tier players transformed into a top team with a player added.
Some may argue that given the chance playing PG role under MDA system, it's not difficult to get 20/8 a night. But, good stats doesn't always get you win.
For Lin's case, it's not only stats, wins, but also sublimation of the whole team. Everyone in the team looks so energetic, confident, selfless, and joyful. Every opponents is beatable. That's no coincidence that Jeremy's Harvard beat Boston College twice.
"2008 -- Just days after BC knocked off top ranked North Carolina, the #24th ranked Eagles were stunned at home by the 8-6 Crimson. This was the ultimate buzz kill game. Who killed the Eagles that night? Jeremy Lin of course.
But it was Lin's poise that helped Harvard maintain control down the stretch.
"We were glad we had this opportunity to play them after they took out UNC," Lin said. Lin continually isolated against a number of BC defenders that tried to stop him, driving the lane and setting up teammates.
"He got in a rhythm," Skinner said.
Lin finished the game with 27 points, 8 assists and 6 steals.
2009 -- In a game where Harvard trailed by four at the half, it was Lin who led the Crimson back to beat BC 74-67 at Conte Forum.
"Despite an eight-minute scoring drought, Harvard trailed by just four at the break and the Crimson methodically got back into the game by converting 9-of-12 shots to start the second stanza. A steal and a gliding layup from Lin followed by two free throws made it a 43-42 game with under 13 minutes to play. Another driving layup kept it a one-point affair, 45-44, as he started 6-of-6 from the floor. Those freebies kicked off an 11-0 run that saw Harvard grab a 53-45 lead."
Lin led Harvard with 25 points, 4 assists, and 3 rebounds."
AN HISTORIC basketball game was played on January 8 in Chestnut Hill, Massachusetts. Harvard beat Boston College, ranked seventeenth in the nation, 82-70, recording its first-ever win over a nationally ranked opponent. What is more, BC had just defeated the University of North Carolina, then the nation’s top team. (Harvard’s last game against such elite competition, with twenty-third-ranked Stanford, was a 111-56 blowout, the opener of 2007-08’s struggling 8-22 season, when the Crimson tied with Princeton and Dartmouth for last in the Ivies.)
That January night, shooting guard Jeremy Lin ’10 put on a magic show, throwing in 27 points and making eight assists and six steals. On defense, he held BC’s all-American guard (and projected NBA draft pick) Tyrese Rice, who had scorched UNC for 25 points, scoreless in the first half. When Lin finally fouled out with 40 seconds left, there were none of the mocking chants one often hears in college gyms at such moments; instead, the crowd made the air alive with applause. “That game was something I’ll never forget, an emotional high,” says Lin. “It was something our players and coaches deserve—we’ve all worked very hard. We earned it.”
In mid January, when Harvard was 9-6 (1-0 Ivy), Lin was the only college basketball player in the United States who ranked among the top 10 players of his conference in points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, field-goal percentage, free-throw percentage, and three-point percentage. That pretty much covers the game of basketball: it’s an extraordinary display of versatility. Lin was averaging 17.9 points and 5.5 rebounds per game, while hitting field goals at a .500 clip, free throws at .802, and three-pointers at .424. Characteristically, he credits his teammates for those high-flying stats. Regarding steals, for example (last year he led the Ivies with 58), Lin notes, “When other guys on the floor are doing a good job defending, that can force a bad pass, and I can grab the ball.”
“I’m trying to do whatever the team needs me to do in that particular game,” Lin explains. “A lot of the time, it’s not going to be scoring, even though that’s what’s most valued when people talk about a game. Sometimes it’s going to be rebounding or passing. It’s a credit to the other guys on our team that I don’t have to be scoring every game: we have several players who can score.”
“I haven’t coached anyone I would regard higher [than Lin],” says Tommy Amaker, who coached 19 years at Duke, Seton Hall, and Michigan before arriving at Harvard’s helm in 2007. “Jeremy is a hard worker, a passionate ball player, a student of the game who loves the game. He’s an unselfish young man, sometimes to a fault. Jeremy’s a complete player, a throwback to the days of yesteryear. He could play basketball in any era. I love coaching him; it’s great to have a player you sometimes have to ask to slow down, instead of ‘Please, take it up a notch.’”
The six-foot, three-inch Lin built his game amid a hoop-playing family. Both parents are Taiwanese immigrants and computer engineers who eventually settled in Palo Alto, California. His father, Gie-Ming, had never heard of the sport when he arrived in the United States in 1977, but soon became a basketball junkie. Though only five feet six, he plays recreationally and collects basketball DVDs. Lin’s mother, Shirley, fell in love with the game as her sons did, and is now a major fan. Older brother Joshua played for Henry M. Gunn High School in Palo Alto; Jeremy played for the rival Palo Alto High School, where his younger brother Joseph is on the team now. “Anyplace we could find a hoop and a ball, we would play,” Lin says. After their Friday-night youth group at the Chinese Church of Christ, for example, the Lin brethren would adjourn to a gym at Stanford for some pick-up games that might last until 2:00 a.m. Lin came to Harvard—not Stanford, Cal, or UCLA—in part because he wanted to play college basketball. Now Amaker feels Lin is skilled enough to have a career after college if he wants one. (Lin admits that playing in the NBA would be “a dream come true”—his youthful idol was Michael Jordan—but the economics concentrator considers pro ball a long shot. He aspires to work for a church (and serving an underprivileged urban community.)
But for now there is the holy grail of Harvard basketball—an Ivy League championship—which the Crimson has yet to bag. Last year Cornell ran the table at 14-0 and graduated no starters; in preseason polls, Harvard wasn’t picked to finish higher than third. On the other hand, before this season, Harvard had never beaten a team like Boston College.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
