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22
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:09 pm    Post subject:

Dragic >> Lin
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Hurrican
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:15 pm    Post subject:

22 wrote:
Dragic >> Lin


Don't think anyone is stating otherwise. People are just saying their play style is quite similar.
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maomao
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:18 pm    Post subject:

what would be a "great" game for lin if he plays 25 minutes to you guys stat wise?
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maomao
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:20 pm    Post subject:

22 wrote:
Dragic >> Lin


well today sure, Lin has much better first 4 seasons than dragic by far.

but I bet scott will play price over dragic since dragic doesn't have the cred for being tough on defense.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:31 pm    Post subject:

maomao wrote:
22 wrote:
Dragic >> Lin


well today sure, Lin has much better first 4 seasons than dragic by far.

but I bet scott will play price over dragic since dragic doesn't have the cred for being tough on defense.


My bad

Head of the Snake >>> Dragic >> Lin
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SIT_GOODWIN_SIT!
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:33 pm    Post subject:

ISOM wrote:


That's not true. Dragic is a much better outside shooter than Lin. He's not nearly dependent as Lin in needing the ball in his hand to succeed.


Uhh...by outside shot, if you are implying the 3PT game, then you might want to go check it out again. In comparing the last few years, side by side when both were playing meaningful minutes for their respective teams, I don't know if "much better" would apply. Now granted Dragic had a better year for the 2013-2014 season but the way his numbers are trending, those numbers could end up looking like an anomoly/outlier data point down the road if he himself doesn't improve. Furthermore, let's not forget that last year, his coach played him like a primary option - in other words, he had been getting sets that were more conducive for him.

I applaud your faith in Dragic, however misguided. But he won't be the significant difference (vs. Lin) that you think he will be...well certainly not for the money that he might think he deserves.


Last edited by SIT_GOODWIN_SIT! on Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:37 pm    Post subject:

ISOM wrote:
trunkz08 wrote:


Hah do you even watch the Suns games? Earlier in the season Dragic had a big fit when IT was taking all the shots. It's no coincidence now that IT's points are going down that Dragic's are going up.


What are you talking about? Thomas is only averaging three less shots than Dragic.

To expand on what I said Thomas has a usage rate of 25.7 and Dragic has a usage rate of 21.6. So just by going by statistics it proves that has had been able to work effectively without the ball in his hand compared to the other pgs on the roster.


Like I said, do you even watch their games? They run up and down the floor. He gets a lot of his points on fast breaks. Imagine if Lin was running up and down the floor what do you think his stats would be? All the Lakers do is walk it up and do curls and high post crap.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:43 pm    Post subject:

Reflexx wrote:
At least it would make for more entertaining games.

It would also be a reason to offer a contract to Lin, since he'd do best in a similar system.

The worst thing that could happen to the Lakers would be to let Lin go and then have him play very well elsewhere.


A three guard rotation of Dragic, Lin and Clarkson would be competitive and good for the Lakers. Not going to happen as long as BS is the coach though.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:48 pm    Post subject:

qiantom wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
At least it would make for more entertaining games.

It would also be a reason to offer a contract to Lin, since he'd do best in a similar system.

The worst thing that could happen to the Lakers would be to let Lin go and then have him play very well elsewhere.


A three guard rotation of Dragic, Lin and Clarkson would be competitive and good for the Lakers. Not going to happen as long as BS is the coach though.


Not affordable either unless Lin takes a massive paycut
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maomao
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:52 pm    Post subject:

so what are your expectations for lin's stat for 25 minutes to be considered good?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:53 pm    Post subject:

Reflexx wrote:
villavs wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
Mikster wrote:
Atm Lin's putting up 10.6ppg 4.5assist FG 44% 3Point 37% 8 FGA 23min PerGame...That's pretty much what a 5-7million player getting paid...I'm pretty sure he'll be getting a few offers during the off season. People calling him a scrub and all are just frustrated he's not putting up Linsanity the truth is with this roaster ain't nobody gonna do well look at Kobe's career low numbers this year. Lakers will probably make him a 5-7mil offer to play back up I hope he takes it if BS isn't the HS but if he is then I hope Lin goes elsewhere cause it hurts to watch this slow ass boring BS system that's so predictable.


I think Lin will make the upper range of that or more.

His numbers are coming from a system that does not suit him and limited minutes. If a team intends to play him 30 min a game, then they know those numbers will go up significantly. Maybe $8 mil a year.


The Houston (poison pill) contract was $25 mil for 3 years and that was right after Linsanity. I think Lin has been so marginalized, I doubt he'll get that kind of money.


The market has changed. He's also a more well-rounded player than befoe. And there's no more worrying about the possibility of the poison pill.

8 mil/yr is about market value for a player like Lin.


No chance he gets 8 mil. The market is even more crowded now with quality point guards. A mediocre back up PG or a bottom tier starting PG isn't sniffing 8 mil.


Last edited by jonnybravo on Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:53 pm    Post subject:

ISOM wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
ISOM wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
ISOM wrote:

The lakers drafted Clarkson. They didn't draft Lin. The only reason Lin is even on the lakers is because of the Houston pick. So of course Lin is not a priority for the lakers. If Lin doesn't produce both in points and assist then he is of no use to the team. They would rather see Clarkson develop then trying to continue to develop Lin.


Why do people insist on perpetuating such a narrative?

Mitch wanted to get Lin twice before. He saw something in Lin's game that he felt would benefit the team.

Mitch did take advantage of a Rockets team that was pressed for time, so he got all he could. Lin's $15 million last year is prohibitive for most teams.

But saying that Lin is only here because of the pick is disingenuous.


Well lin has already shown the best of his abilities for this team. An inconsistent player who can get hot at times. Lin will never be the starting pg for this team going forward. I think the FO would rather see clarkson develop than continue to watch Lin try to develop into a reliable starter.


And how do you know these things you state?

Have we seen the best of his abilities for this team? Has he had enough games with enough minutes with the lineups that are best matched with him?

How do you know that he'll never be the starting PG going forward? Right now he has the best ability of our 3 PGs.

I do agree that the FO wants to see Clarkson develop. But Lin doesn't need to "develop" to be a reliable starter. He just has to work in a system where the floor is spread and he can reliably predict the movements of teammates.

What we've seen so far is a coach that has chosen not to use Lin efficiently and instead chosen to start inferior PGs.

We can only guess at the reasoning. And that reasoning may change later.

But "never" is a strong word that too many people use liberally so that they can act like they know something for sure instead of admitting the truth is that there is a lot going on behind the scenes that we don't know.


If he has to work in a certain system to be effective than I don't see how he starts for the lakers going forward. Whether it's going after a free agent like Dragic or drafting one of the lottery pgs. Both options seem better than continuing to see Lin struggle on this team.


if they intent on keeping byron and letting him run this system, then the best pg fit for this system are ronnie price, and rajon rondo. signing dragic would be a huge waste of money. would be like buying a ferrari for a 1 mile commute on dirt road.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:55 pm    Post subject:

22 wrote:
qiantom wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
At least it would make for more entertaining games.

It would also be a reason to offer a contract to Lin, since he'd do best in a similar system.

The worst thing that could happen to the Lakers would be to let Lin go and then have him play very well elsewhere.


A three guard rotation of Dragic, Lin and Clarkson would be competitive and good for the Lakers. Not going to happen as long as BS is the coach though.


Not affordable either unless Lin takes a massive paycut


I actually would not mind a massive Lin pay cut so as long as the difference does not go toward lining Dragic's coffers.
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ISOM
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:56 pm    Post subject:

tirebiter wrote:
ISOM wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
ISOM wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
ISOM wrote:

The lakers drafted Clarkson. They didn't draft Lin. The only reason Lin is even on the lakers is because of the Houston pick. So of course Lin is not a priority for the lakers. If Lin doesn't produce both in points and assist then he is of no use to the team. They would rather see Clarkson develop then trying to continue to develop Lin.


Why do people insist on perpetuating such a narrative?

Mitch wanted to get Lin twice before. He saw something in Lin's game that he felt would benefit the team.

Mitch did take advantage of a Rockets team that was pressed for time, so he got all he could. Lin's $15 million last year is prohibitive for most teams.

But saying that Lin is only here because of the pick is disingenuous.


Well lin has already shown the best of his abilities for this team. An inconsistent player who can get hot at times. Lin will never be the starting pg for this team going forward. I think the FO would rather see clarkson develop than continue to watch Lin try to develop into a reliable starter.


And how do you know these things you state?

Have we seen the best of his abilities for this team? Has he had enough games with enough minutes with the lineups that are best matched with him?

How do you know that he'll never be the starting PG going forward? Right now he has the best ability of our 3 PGs.

I do agree that the FO wants to see Clarkson develop. But Lin doesn't need to "develop" to be a reliable starter. He just has to work in a system where the floor is spread and he can reliably predict the movements of teammates.

What we've seen so far is a coach that has chosen not to use Lin efficiently and instead chosen to start inferior PGs.

We can only guess at the reasoning. And that reasoning may change later.

But "never" is a strong word that too many people use liberally so that they can act like they know something for sure instead of admitting the truth is that there is a lot going on behind the scenes that we don't know.


If he has to work in a certain system to be effective than I don't see how he starts for the lakers going forward. Whether it's going after a free agent like Dragic or drafting one of the lottery pgs. Both options seem better than continuing to see Lin struggle on this team.


if they intent on keeping byron and letting him run this system, then the best pg fit for this system are ronnie price, and rajon rondo. signing dragic would be a huge waste of money. would be like buying a ferrari for a 1 mile commute on dirt road.


No it seems to me that he wants a player that can score as well as set guys up at a consistent rate. It's why he said to Kobe that even though he liked his change in style when he was assisting at a high rate he still wanted him to score. Rondo doesn't solve that.


Last edited by ISOM on Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 2:56 pm    Post subject:

22 wrote:
qiantom wrote:

A three guard rotation of Dragic, Lin and Clarkson would be competitive and good for the Lakers. Not going to happen as long as BS is the coach though.


Not affordable either unless Lin takes a massive paycut


Yeah, money is an issue. I am just saying salary is not the biggest issue here.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:02 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:


No chance he gets 8 mil. The market is even more crowded now with quality point guards. A mediocre back up PG or a bottom tier starting PG isn't sniffing 8 mil.


Well hallelujah! At least someone isn't afraid to have the gumption to imply that Lin could be a starter, albeit bottom tier.
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Reflexx
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:04 pm    Post subject:

ISOM wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
ISOM wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
ISOM wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
ISOM wrote:

The lakers drafted Clarkson. They didn't draft Lin. The only reason Lin is even on the lakers is because of the Houston pick. So of course Lin is not a priority for the lakers. If Lin doesn't produce both in points and assist then he is of no use to the team. They would rather see Clarkson develop then trying to continue to develop Lin.


Why do people insist on perpetuating such a narrative?

Mitch wanted to get Lin twice before. He saw something in Lin's game that he felt would benefit the team.

Mitch did take advantage of a Rockets team that was pressed for time, so he got all he could. Lin's $15 million last year is prohibitive for most teams.

But saying that Lin is only here because of the pick is disingenuous.


Well lin has already shown the best of his abilities for this team. An inconsistent player who can get hot at times. Lin will never be the starting pg for this team going forward. I think the FO would rather see clarkson develop than continue to watch Lin try to develop into a reliable starter.


And how do you know these things you state?

Have we seen the best of his abilities for this team? Has he had enough games with enough minutes with the lineups that are best matched with him?

How do you know that he'll never be the starting PG going forward? Right now he has the best ability of our 3 PGs.

I do agree that the FO wants to see Clarkson develop. But Lin doesn't need to "develop" to be a reliable starter. He just has to work in a system where the floor is spread and he can reliably predict the movements of teammates.

What we've seen so far is a coach that has chosen not to use Lin efficiently and instead chosen to start inferior PGs.

We can only guess at the reasoning. And that reasoning may change later.

But "never" is a strong word that too many people use liberally so that they can act like they know something for sure instead of admitting the truth is that there is a lot going on behind the scenes that we don't know.


If he has to work in a certain system to be effective than I don't see how he starts for the lakers going forward. Whether it's going after a free agent like Dragic or drafting one of the lottery pgs. Both options seem better than continuing to see Lin struggle on this team.


Lin and Dragic aren't very different. Dragic is a little more polished, but he also is system dependent.

He's also going to be a lot more expensive.

If we want to decide to run a system that will fit Dragic, then it would make a lot of sense to keep Lin as a backup because he would excel in that same system. If we don't run a system that Dragic would excel in, then that's spending a lot of money for frustration.


That's not true. Dragic is a much better outside shooter than Lin. He's not nearly dependent as Lin in needing the ball in his hand to succeed.


Dragic has an open floor and a spread out offense. The nature of what they run gives him more room to shoot.

Look at Lin's numbers when he has more room. Heck, just look at his time in Houston. He's not bad at all.

Also, Lin played decently well off-ball in Houston. It wasn't Linsanity... but it was good.

Dragic hasn't been stellar this year. He's been good. But we know that he can play better when he's the primary ball handler and doesn't have to share the back court with other ball dominant guards.
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Reflexx
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:05 pm    Post subject:

22 wrote:
Dragic >> Lin


Ok.

This offseason...

Dragic $$$$
Lin $$

I'd love to get both and actually run an offense that can take advantage of them.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:06 pm    Post subject:

ISOM wrote:
Lin has a usage rate of 20.8 just barely below Dragic's. Yet Dragic is more efficient and a better scorer than Lin. Yet people are trying to say they are just somewhat the same player?


The offense they run is completely different than what we run.

Their offense is geared towards using the advantages their guards give them.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:11 pm    Post subject:

Reflexx wrote:
22 wrote:
Dragic >> Lin


Ok.

This offseason...

Dragic $$$$
Lin $$

I'd love to get both and actually run an offense that can take advantage of them.


Too much money for both. More than likely we wind up with neither
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Reflexx
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:37 pm    Post subject:

22 wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
22 wrote:
Dragic >> Lin


Ok.

This offseason...

Dragic $$$$
Lin $$

I'd love to get both and actually run an offense that can take advantage of them.


Too much money for both. More than likely we wind up with neither


I agree that's the most likely result.

I just hold out hope that this has been some strange experiment by Byron, and he'll start implementing something more reasonable for the personnel soon.

If the Lakers become entertaining, spread out, and faster paced I can see Dragic open to coming and I can see Lin willing to return.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:51 pm    Post subject:

maomao wrote:
so what are your expectations for lin's stat for 25 minutes to be considered good?


Dunno, but Lin got a triple-double in 29 minutes last season...
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:05 pm    Post subject:

philnyc wrote:
maomao wrote:
so what are your expectations for lin's stat for 25 minutes to be considered good?


Dunno, but Lin got a triple-double in 29 minutes last season...


uh..so how are we even evaluating lin? give me a good enough stat for 25 minutes that worth $8 mil a year.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:50 pm    Post subject:

Lin will not be on this team if Dragic comes here
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meows a lot
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:07 pm    Post subject:

maomao wrote:
philnyc wrote:
maomao wrote:
so what are your expectations for lin's stat for 25 minutes to be considered good?


Dunno, but Lin got a triple-double in 29 minutes last season...


uh..so how are we even evaluating lin? give me a good enough stat for 25 minutes that worth $8 mil a year.


lol i know eh. hes maybe worth 2mil a year right now...at least hes making money.
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