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Drifts
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 Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Fruscas wrote: | Guess Byron didnt watch the Spurs, Heat and Mavs, the last few years...it's a shame.
My bold prediction is that Byron will struggle to stay until christmas if this brand of miserable basketball continues |
it seems he didn't watch a lot of NBA at all... not only is his offense horrendous, his defense is pretty much none existent. I'd like to read a qoute on his defensive philosophy seeing opposing teams are having a field day in scoring.
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Don Draper
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| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | Just for a point of reference, 7 of the last 8 title winners led all teams in the playoffs in 3s attempted and made. And most of them ran 1 in 4 out as well.
Byron seems intent on running a 3 in 2 half out offense where no one can get to the basket, no one is set at 3, and a lot of contested and on the move 2s. |
Which would be fine if we had Shaq or Kareem down low, and Worthy or Silk backing up a 28 year old Kobe. But....we don't |
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Mini Mamba
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| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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Did the Laker teams Byron used to play for shoot a lot of threes? If not maybe that is why we don't shoot many as he wants to get back to that style of basketball.
The game has changed though and while we shouldn't take as many as we did last year we need to take more than we are currently. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Don Draper wrote: | | 24 wrote: | Just for a point of reference, 7 of the last 8 title winners led all teams in the playoffs in 3s attempted and made. And most of them ran 1 in 4 out as well.
Byron seems intent on running a 3 in 2 half out offense where no one can get to the basket, no one is set at 3, and a lot of contested and on the move 2s. |
Which would be fine if we had Shaq or Kareem down low, and Worthy or Silk backing up a 28 year old Kobe. But....we don't |
Actually, it wouldn't be good even then...
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Gimme_the_rock wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: |
How exactly are we supposed to get to the basket when our own guys are in the way? |
Play harder? |
More suicides?
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | ^ Great post. And no offense taken =)
There's a lot that confuses me about this preseason. The 3s, the statement of attacking the basket but not follow through from the players, and whatever happened to having Kobe play out of the post? He's almost never there.
Maybe it's just me, but I still don't really feel like I have a grasp on what we're trying to do out there. Like, you watch the Knicks, and they are struggling to pick up the tri, but ok, they're trying to run the tri and they will use the preseason to get through the struggles.
What are we trying to do? Are the mid-range and long 2s by Scott's design, or the result of a team with little direction? |
I am with you, though GT's excellent explanations have cleared things up somewhat. So what we are seeing is something that we should recognize, only it was popular back when I could still dunk 30 years ago. No wonder it looks so muddled, crowded and confusing.
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Jim99187 wrote: | | Quote: | Serena Winters @SerenaWinters 28m28 minutes ago
. (@) BaxterHolmes asked Byron Scott about his 3-point philosophy: "I don't believe it wins championships, get's you to the playoffs." |
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I'm sorry, but that's just dumb. If a manager in the corporate world was found to be this out of touch with the current state of his profession, he'd get pushed out immediately. |
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Don Draper
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| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Gimme_the_rock wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: |
How exactly are we supposed to get to the basket when our own guys are in the way? |
Play harder? |
More suicides? |
For every injury you get in practice, Scott gives you a gold star. |
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Treble Clef
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| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Mini Mamba wrote: | Did the Laker teams Byron used to play for shoot a lot of threes? If not maybe that is why we don't shoot many as he wants to get back to that style of basketball.
The game has changed though and while we shouldn't take as many as we did last year we need to take more than we are currently. |
Byron was somewhat of a 3 point specialist himself, and his previous teams were middle of the pack or higher in 3 point attempts. I don't understand where he's coming from with this. |
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Don Draper
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| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Treble Clef wrote: | | Mini Mamba wrote: | Did the Laker teams Byron used to play for shoot a lot of threes? If not maybe that is why we don't shoot many as he wants to get back to that style of basketball.
The game has changed though and while we shouldn't take as many as we did last year we need to take more than we are currently. |
Byron was somewhat of a 3 point specialist himself, and his previous teams were middle of the pack or higher in 3 point attempts. I don't understand where he's coming from with this. |
Tank orders straight from Jimbo and Vitti. We'll be seeing Jordan Hill shoulder isos by game 3. |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| fiendishoc wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | Quote: | Serena Winters @SerenaWinters 28m28 minutes ago
. _at_ BaxterHolmes asked Byron Scott about his 3-point philosophy: "I don't believe it wins championships, get's you to the playoffs." |
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I'm sorry, but that's just dumb. If a manager in the corporate world was found to be this out of touch with the current state of his profession, he'd get pushed out immediately. |
Even if it was true, don't we need to make the playoffs to win a championship? Or did Byron find a warp pipe that skips you straight to the Finals? |
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LakerFan87
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| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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It's stupid to pre-define how many threes to shoot in a game. Take them as often as good opportunities present themselves. Some nights it might only be 10, some nights it might be 25.
Don't shoot them just for the sake of shooting them, but also, don't not shoot them for the sake of not shooting them.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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So Byron's getting 4 PS games before the doubts come in?
Anyone who thought Byron's system was nice on O didn't watch CLE, or NOR. Heck, I posted it ten times perhaps over the summer. That the knock on Byron in his career has been that he loses his guys for working them too hard and that his O isn't very creative. And here were are early on and we see that.
No biggie to me. To me the problems are much bigger than Scott.
#1 We need a second good player. Lets be honest. Kobe is our only good player. The rest of these guys wouldn't start for anyone good anywhere. Lin is a backup on a good team. Boozer was cut by a good team. Hill is a backup on a good team. Wesley may not even be a starter on a bad team. That's our starting 5, baby. We have no Center, no inside defensive presence. I would argue that this is the worst 2nd player Kobe has had to play with ever in his career. Lamar Odom and Caron in their primes smoke anyone on this team as a 2nd best player. So the one thing Byron can not avoid, he has no reliable 2nd option. Even D'Antoni had Pau, and Dwight/Pau the year before. Whose our 2nd best player? Lin. Please. HOU gave a pick to get rid of him (and yes I think Lin is a good player, just not a 2nd best player on a good team).
#2 Kobe. He's being paid like a superstar but so far he's played like the way he ought to considering his injuries/age etc. He's still a damn good player/scorer, still competitive as hell, but a lot like a wing sized Dirk or MJ in Washington. Unless Kobe improves dramatically we're going to be pretty mediocre this year.
The real issues need to be addressed above. Then we can focus on Byron. Certainly if the team looks this bad 30 games in, okay. But he's run a really hard physical camp. Guys are tired. Then there's new sets. This isn't easy quick learning basic run and gun D'Antoni O. These are sets that will take time to learn.
Byron deserves at least 30 (2 months of RS play) before a real evaluation can be made. And BTW, even then, I fully expect him to be lacking on O. I said that when he was hired. But even then, I expect him to succeed (for our mediocre current standards) as Laker HC. I know easy to say now, but if Byron had the talent MDA had in 2012 or Brown had, he'd get far more out of them. One word. They'd respect him. |
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Jim99187
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| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | So Byron's getting 4 PS games before the doubts come in?
Anyone who thought Byron's system was nice on O didn't watch CLE, or NOR. Heck, I posted it ten times perhaps over the summer. That the knock on Byron in his career has been that he loses his guys for working them too hard and that his O isn't very creative. And here were are early on and we see that.
No biggie to me. To me the problems are much bigger than Scott.
#1 We need a second good player. Lets be honest. Kobe is our only good player. The rest of these guys wouldn't start for anyone good anywhere. Lin is a backup on a good team. Boozer was cut by a good team. Hill is a backup on a good team. Wesley may not even be a starter on a bad team. That's our starting 5, baby. We have no Center, no inside defensive presence. I would argue that this is the worst 2nd player Kobe has had to play with ever in his career. Lamar Odom and Caron in their primes smoke anyone on this team as a 2nd best player. So the one thing Byron can not avoid, he has no reliable 2nd option. Even D'Antoni had Pau, and Dwight/Pau the year before. Whose our 2nd best player? Lin. Please. HOU gave a pick to get rid of him (and yes I think Lin is a good player, just not a 2nd best player on a good team).
#2 Kobe. He's being paid like a superstar but so far he's played like the way he ought to considering his injuries/age etc. He's still a damn good player/scorer, still competitive as hell, but a lot like a wing sized Dirk or MJ in Washington. Unless Kobe improves dramatically we're going to be pretty mediocre this year.
The real issues need to be addressed above. Then we can focus on Byron. Certainly if the team looks this bad 30 games in, okay. But he's run a really hard physical camp. Guys are tired. Then there's new sets. This isn't easy quick learning basic run and gun D'Antoni O. These are sets that will take time to learn.
Byron deserves at least 30 (2 months of RS play) before a real evaluation can be made. And BTW, even then, I fully expect him to be lacking on O. I said that when he was hired. But even then, I expect him to succeed (for our mediocre current standards) as Laker HC. I know easy to say now, but if Byron had the talent MDA had in 2012 or Brown had, he'd get far more out of them. One word. They'd respect him. |
but but we decided not to sign Stephenson/deng for a 2 yr deal for the same amount as the pathetic J Hill. & paid 3.25 to boozer.
they prefer to spend their cap space on lin + 1st which is going to be 18-25
our FO lacks creativity. they are still try through the same path that worked in the 80/90's.
I don't know whats their deal with hanging onto showtime is. no matter if they even brought Magic back fans will go against him if he is not winning |
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KobeButler
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| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Jim99187 wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | So Byron's getting 4 PS games before the doubts come in?
Anyone who thought Byron's system was nice on O didn't watch CLE, or NOR. Heck, I posted it ten times perhaps over the summer. That the knock on Byron in his career has been that he loses his guys for working them too hard and that his O isn't very creative. And here were are early on and we see that.
No biggie to me. To me the problems are much bigger than Scott.
#1 We need a second good player. Lets be honest. Kobe is our only good player. The rest of these guys wouldn't start for anyone good anywhere. Lin is a backup on a good team. Boozer was cut by a good team. Hill is a backup on a good team. Wesley may not even be a starter on a bad team. That's our starting 5, baby. We have no Center, no inside defensive presence. I would argue that this is the worst 2nd player Kobe has had to play with ever in his career. Lamar Odom and Caron in their primes smoke anyone on this team as a 2nd best player. So the one thing Byron can not avoid, he has no reliable 2nd option. Even D'Antoni had Pau, and Dwight/Pau the year before. Whose our 2nd best player? Lin. Please. HOU gave a pick to get rid of him (and yes I think Lin is a good player, just not a 2nd best player on a good team).
#2 Kobe. He's being paid like a superstar but so far he's played like the way he ought to considering his injuries/age etc. He's still a damn good player/scorer, still competitive as hell, but a lot like a wing sized Dirk or MJ in Washington. Unless Kobe improves dramatically we're going to be pretty mediocre this year.
The real issues need to be addressed above. Then we can focus on Byron. Certainly if the team looks this bad 30 games in, okay. But he's run a really hard physical camp. Guys are tired. Then there's new sets. This isn't easy quick learning basic run and gun D'Antoni O. These are sets that will take time to learn.
Byron deserves at least 30 (2 months of RS play) before a real evaluation can be made. And BTW, even then, I fully expect him to be lacking on O. I said that when he was hired. But even then, I expect him to succeed (for our mediocre current standards) as Laker HC. I know easy to say now, but if Byron had the talent MDA had in 2012 or Brown had, he'd get far more out of them. One word. They'd respect him. |
but but we decided not to sign Stephenson/deng for a 2 yr deal for the same amount as the pathetic J Hill. & paid 3.25 to boozer.
they prefer to spend their cap space on lin + 1st which is going to be 18-25
our FO lacks creativity. they are still try through the same path that worked in the 80/90's.
I don't know whats their deal with hanging onto showtime is. no matter if they even brought Magic back fans will go against him if he is not winning |
Yea cause we all know every one and their mommas would love to play here. Why cant people accept the fact that the lakers aren't that attractive to play for anymore? Why would Stephenson come here on a 2 year contract when he plays the same position as kobe? Common sense people.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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We're just 4 preseason games into Byron's tenure. It feels too early to judge his coaching philosophy and his offensive system. The drastic changes in coaching staff and roster merit a period of growing pains. I wish I could blame the Lakers FO for not hiring him sooner to give him more time in the offseason to prepare. But our roster was so in flux it wouldn't have mattered that much.
Unlike his predecessor, I'm confident Scott will stay flexible with his offense. He will build it around our rosters strengths (whenever we find a semi-dependable 2nd and 3rd option behind Kobe). I imagine the things he won't bend on are conditioning, pace, and physical defense. I can live with that.
Scott has championship pedigree. He knows first hand a team can't play one way for 48 minutes every game and win a chip. If our players get on a hot streak from downtown, he will encourage them and plan for them to shoot more 3's. Matchups and team chemistry will also play a role in how the offense evolves.
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Jim99187
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| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| KobeButler wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | So Byron's getting 4 PS games before the doubts come in?
Anyone who thought Byron's system was nice on O didn't watch CLE, or NOR. Heck, I posted it ten times perhaps over the summer. That the knock on Byron in his career has been that he loses his guys for working them too hard and that his O isn't very creative. And here were are early on and we see that.
No biggie to me. To me the problems are much bigger than Scott.
#1 We need a second good player. Lets be honest. Kobe is our only good player. The rest of these guys wouldn't start for anyone good anywhere. Lin is a backup on a good team. Boozer was cut by a good team. Hill is a backup on a good team. Wesley may not even be a starter on a bad team. That's our starting 5, baby. We have no Center, no inside defensive presence. I would argue that this is the worst 2nd player Kobe has had to play with ever in his career. Lamar Odom and Caron in their primes smoke anyone on this team as a 2nd best player. So the one thing Byron can not avoid, he has no reliable 2nd option. Even D'Antoni had Pau, and Dwight/Pau the year before. Whose our 2nd best player? Lin. Please. HOU gave a pick to get rid of him (and yes I think Lin is a good player, just not a 2nd best player on a good team).
#2 Kobe. He's being paid like a superstar but so far he's played like the way he ought to considering his injuries/age etc. He's still a damn good player/scorer, still competitive as hell, but a lot like a wing sized Dirk or MJ in Washington. Unless Kobe improves dramatically we're going to be pretty mediocre this year.
The real issues need to be addressed above. Then we can focus on Byron. Certainly if the team looks this bad 30 games in, okay. But he's run a really hard physical camp. Guys are tired. Then there's new sets. This isn't easy quick learning basic run and gun D'Antoni O. These are sets that will take time to learn.
Byron deserves at least 30 (2 months of RS play) before a real evaluation can be made. And BTW, even then, I fully expect him to be lacking on O. I said that when he was hired. But even then, I expect him to succeed (for our mediocre current standards) as Laker HC. I know easy to say now, but if Byron had the talent MDA had in 2012 or Brown had, he'd get far more out of them. One word. They'd respect him. |
but but we decided not to sign Stephenson/deng for a 2 yr deal for the same amount as the pathetic J Hill. & paid 3.25 to boozer.
they prefer to spend their cap space on lin + 1st which is going to be 18-25
our FO lacks creativity. they are still try through the same path that worked in the 80/90's.
I don't know whats their deal with hanging onto showtime is. no matter if they even brought Magic back fans will go against him if he is not winning |
Yea cause we all know every one and their mommas would love to play here. Why cant people accept the fact that the lakers aren't that attractive to play for anymore? Why would Stephenson come here on a 2 year contract when he plays the same position as kobe? Common sense people. |
Maybe u can use the same common sense and know that stephenson is a 2/3 and can play the 3 v well.
He guarded lebron pretty goood in the playoffs.
But oh wait u quickly did a google search on stephenson, saw his position as sg and sprinted here to tell people to use common sense isnt it?
Also do u know stephenson contract with charlotte is 2yr with 3rd yr as team option?
Last edited by Jim99187 on Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jim99187
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| Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | We're just 4 preseason games into Byron's tenure. It feels too early to judge his coaching philosophy and his offensive system. The drastic changes in coaching staff and roster merit a period of growing pains. I wish I could blame the Lakers FO for not hiring him sooner to give him more time in the offseason to prepare. But our roster was so in flux it wouldn't have mattered that much.
Unlike his predecessor, I'm confident Scott will stay flexible with his offense. He will build it around our rosters strengths (whenever we find a semi-dependable 2nd and 3rd option behind Kobe). I imagine the things he won't bend on are conditioning, pace, and physical defense. I can live with that.
Scott has championship pedigree. He knows first hand a team can't play one way for 48 minutes every game and win a chip. If our players get on a hot streak from downtown, he will encourage them and plan for them to shoot more 3's. Matchups and team chemistry will also play a role in how the offense evolves. |
Its not only the 4 preseason games but what they did in those preseason games.
Its not that they r losing but how they r losing it |
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MJST
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:29 am Post subject: |
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How they are losing games shouldn't worry you either. Their starters do fine(with the exception of the 'no legs' game) and when their bench comes in it's their 3rd string + Randle and Davis who perform the best. The other 5 guys on the bench that play are guys trying to make a roster spot.
So what are we expecting? The starters are getting more chemistry despite 3 of the 4 games being different starting lineups.
The bench that comes in is the 3rd stringers sans Davis and Randle because Xavier, Kelly, Lin, Nick Young are injured.
The Lakers bench would look like this during the season
Steve Nash / Ronnie Price
Xavier Henry
Nick Young
Julius Randle
Ed Davis
the only people on that list that have played more than one game are Randle and Davis, and Price started last game.
So I dunno what people are expecting. Our 3rd string of guys who are playing for a contract but would serve as the 15th-20th men playing better against another teams starters or 2nd string? If our 3rd stringers kept up with Utah's bench then Utah would have a serious problem.
What we need to really start analyzing is for Xavier, Nick Young, Jeremy Lin and Ryan Kelly to come back and play a few games gaining chemistry. Then we can fully know. Till then the 15th-20th guys are gonna be our bench sans the times Davis and Randle play. |
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:42 am Post subject: |
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Injuries, youth, lineups whatever- all excuses. That was Utah, the worst team in the west.
It's more of everyone being able to see the outdated philosophy getting the team pounded in games, and then seeing the coach doubling down on said outdated philosophy.
It's like your new boss comes in on his first day and tells everyone that computers make people less productive and that the office will be paper, pencil, and snail mail only going forward. You don't need to wait a few weeks to know that someone made a big mistake. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:51 am Post subject: |
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| fiendishoc wrote: | Injuries, youth, lineups whatever- all excuses. That was Utah, the worst team in the west.
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No, it's reality. Clippers have gone life or death with the Jazz twice with Exum lighting them up on both occasions this pre-season with a full roster. Is it time for them to panic too? Is CP3 done because he can't guard Dante Exum? Is he done because he's only averaging 11 points and 7 assists on 39% shooting?
It's the pre-season, pre-season is pre-season and where you'll see the most mistakes made. When your entire bench sans Randle and Davis is made up of the 3rd/4th string guys that have no contract and are camp fodder, expect that team to get blown out by another teams established 2nd unit and starters. Expecting anything else is silly.
The Lakers have injuries to their bench and are basically putting the 3rd and 4th stringers out there with only one legitimate three point shooter on the team who's been horrible.
It's not 'excuses' it's logical reality and in reality you'll have to wait till guys are back healthy to successfully judge this team. Because I can guarantee you that betting on how we'll be based on a bench of Keith Appling, Wayne Ellington, Jabari Brown, Roscoe Smith and Jeremy Tyler isn't going to get anyone very far nor legitimately be taken seriously. Unless you're going to next argue why they'll be our bench next year rather than
Nash/ Price
Xavier Henry
Nick Young
Julius Randle / Ryan Kelly
and Ed Davis
Our actual 2nd string we intend to have next season playing minutes is about 7 players deep
So to put it into further perspective let's look at who played last night and who didn't
Nash(nope) / Ronnie Price(our 3rd string PG, started)
Xavier Henry (nope) / Clarkson (nope)
Nick Young (nope)
Julius Randle(yes) / Ryan Kelly(nope)
and Ed Davis (yes)
So out of our entire 7 2nd string bench only 2 people played(1 started and has no business starting but had to due to injuries). While the other 5 players were the end of the bench camp fodder trying to make something happen.
So taking the stance of "I'm going to judge our bench of Appling, Tyler and Ellington cause I want to get all my panic in early" and judge our success on that bench rather than "I'm going to wait till Xavier, Kelly, Young, Nash come back and then I can make a fair assessment" isn't going to go very far. Be aware at one point the Jazz bench vs ours was 44-8 advantage and 6 of those points were from Randle(whom only played a quarter) and Davis. That should tell you all you need to know about how much stock you need put into those games where we actually have to play our 3rd stringers significant minutes.
We'll need a good week of our 2nd string actually playing together before we can make any type of fair assessment. Till then there's nothing to gather except for Randle is still getting used to the NBA and Ed Davis is good. That's it.
If Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love suffered season ending three weeks in and go from 14-2 to 14-10 if someone says "we'd have won if Kyrie and Love weren't injured." is the answer gonna be "EXCUSES EXCUSES!!" from anyone other than someone that's hating for the sake of hating and throwing logic out the window cause they don't like the team? Probably not.
So why do it to your own team then. |
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FreakofNature
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | fiendishoc wrote: | Injuries, youth, lineups whatever- all excuses. That was Utah, the worst team in the west.
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No, it's reality. Clippers have gone life or death with the Jazz twice with Exum lighting them up on both occasions this pre-season with a full roster. |
But the Clips did beat them once,and the other game was a nail biter. Big difference from the lakers whom are already a suspect team. And the 33 point loss is far and away a major difference from the Clips games. But you then look at the game just before this, the 41 point loss, and you just cannot overlook this.... minus -74 points in 2 games?
It will be another two long years at the very least, the Buss family will collect over 200 million for a team that gets no more than 65 wins combined in the next two seasons.
The lakers can now only hope to land one of the top 5/10 FA's in 16'/17/ to join Randle and that top 4 pick next season. Without a FA of real impact and that top 4 pick? The wait will be even longer. |
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MJST
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Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26309
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 2:29 am Post subject: |
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| FreakofNature wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | fiendishoc wrote: | Injuries, youth, lineups whatever- all excuses. That was Utah, the worst team in the west.
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No, it's reality. Clippers have gone life or death with the Jazz twice with Exum lighting them up on both occasions this pre-season with a full roster. |
But the Clips did beat them once,and the other game was a nail biter. Big difference from the lakers whom are already a suspect team. And the 33 point loss is far and away a major difference from the Clips games. But you then look at the game just before this, the 41 point loss, and you just cannot overlook this.... minus -74 points in 2 games?
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It's already been covered that the 2nd warriors game and loss was a product of Byron intentionally running guys before the game so they'd have tired legs so he'd force them to have to play through it. It was by design.
The game against the Jazz, the Lakers had a close first quarter. Their 3rd string unit got decimated in the 2nd quarter, the Lakers starters vs the Jazz starters had the Lakers winning the 3rd quarter by 4 till Byron put the 3rd stringers back in and then we lost the 3rd quarter.
Then Byron played the 4th quarter starting the 3rd and 4th stringers who stunk up the place so Byron said 'screw them' and started filing in starters one by one and Utah started doing the same. Then the Lakers starters mix pretty much went even with the Jazz starters mix till Byron and Snyder both put their last strings in, in which case the Lakers 3rd string still did nothing.
So like I said, there's nothing you can take from these games other than the fact that the starting unit is starting to get the offense more despite having 3 different starting lineups in 4 games, and that the 3rd stringers are garbage. That's literally all you can take from that Jazz game.
The Lakers starters vs the Jazz starters looked like this
Starters:
Lakers 68
Jazz 56
The Lakers 3rd stringers vs the Jazz bench looked like this
Lakers 18
Jazz 63
Remove Davis and Randle from the bench points and it looks like this instead
Lakers 10
Jazz 63
Remove Exum from the bench points of the Jazz and it still looks like this
Lakers 10
Jazz 50
It's VERY obvious where the problem was. It lays with the fact our 3rd stringers have played like garbage and that is where the problems started and began and the fact that we don't have Young, Kelly, Xavier, Nash, Clarkson right now. That's 5 players that fill our bench. To overlook that in the face of such obvious evidence is silly.
So not overlooking that before panicking would likely do wonders. |
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 2:43 am Post subject: |
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I admire your optimism, but you had to stretch really hard to get those numbers there.
+/- Vs Jazz vs Warriors
Boozer -17 -30
Hill -13 -23
Johnson -16 -26
Price -16 Nash -26
Kobe -6 -39 |
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MJST
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 3:28 am Post subject: |
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| fiendishoc wrote: | I admire your optimism, but you had to stretch really hard to get those numbers there.
+/- Vs Jazz vs Warriors
Boozer -17 -30
Hill -13 -23
Johnson -16 -26
Price -16 Nash -26
Kobe -6 -39 |
The Jazz one is really the only one you need to highlight if you want to do that. However + / - is one of the most useless statistics in the league. +/- deemed Larry Sanders the best defender in the league in a year he only played 23 games and Darren Collison the 20th most important player on both ends of the court in the entire NBA and with the edition of RAPM to enhance things it lists Kobe as a defensive NEGATIVE for the Lakers in every year of his career except 08-10... does anyone really believe that?
It would also list Jeremy Tyler as having as great an impact on the game as Kobe and Keith Appling the 2nd most productive player of the night...and Ed Davis as our 2nd worst player of the night second only to Wayne Ellington.
So I don't put much stock into +/- at all. It's also effected by the lineup you're in and considering the fact that Scott put in Kobe and Boozer with the scrubs and 3rd stringers in the 4th for significant time so despite the fact Boozer and Kobe were our most productive on the court and Kobe shot 4/5 in the 4th quarter and scored 10 points he's gonna wind up in the negative anyway as he played some minutes with that terrible lineup that still gave up points that weren't his fault in giving up till Scott eventually switched everyone with the starters for about a minute before sitting Kobe and the rest of the starters for the night.
So again, I wouldn't put much stock into that.
The truth is the Lakers lost the first quarter 20-25, the game got out of hand due to the third string in the 2nd quarter, the Lakers starters outplayed the Jazz starters in the 3rd till Byron put in the 3rd string unit, and when Scott played the starters mixed with the scrubs for a little in the 4th it was pretty much even. Didn't move the needle either way.
The very apparent problem was that our third stringers were completely non productive and unfortunately that's going to be the case till we get guys back.
Hard to get back into the game when your 3rd stringers get a 20+ point cushion built upon them in the 2nd quarter, and then get about 10 more in the 4th before your coach has had enough.
Having 3 different starting lineups in 4 games doesn't help either as Ronnie is never looking to pass or penetrate to open the perimeter, but it doesn't change the fact that our third stringers lost this game and our starters seem to be getting more of a feel for the offense and the chemistry between Kobe and Boozer is also getting good.
Unfortunately with 3 straight point guard changes in the starting lineup in 4 games it's hard for any other chemistry aside from the one Kobe and Boozer are building to be built. Ed Davis and Jeremy Lin have NEVER shared the floor since their first game. That's how far away that was.
So in truth we won't have a fair barometer for our team in totality till guys come back with the bench and that's how it is. Other than that we'll just have to watch and see if the starting lineup gets the offense better, and even that is a task considering the 3 point guards in 4 different games situation they are dealing with and the one starting last game was the one we'd have as the 3rd stringer and inactive on the team even if he made it.
We will need a good solid week of our bench back(sans Young till mid November) and EVERYONE playing a solid week together. Then we can get a barometer for what this team can do.
Till then there's really nothing much you can look for as 3/4ths of the bench that has played the last 2 games aren't making the team. So we have to wait and see because all the games are worth watching for at that point is to see if Davis continues to play well, if Randle's adjusting to the NBA game, how Kobe and Boozer look and who is getting the offense(starters only). Because that's literally all you can take from it at this point for the most part.
I look forward to getting some guys back for a solid week and more so I can actually make some judgments. Fortunately Kelly and maybe Lin return on Sunday. Nothing new on Clarkson, X or Nash as of yet though so no idea if they are playing. |
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