A critical part to our offense: Kobe watching
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22
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:29 pm    Post subject: A critical part to our offense: Kobe watching

I'm highly encouraged by the fact that Kobe still commands a double team. Especially against good defenders like Thompson and AI today. When Kobe is operating at the elbow, low post, etc and that double comes it opens up opportunities for other guys.

But the team CANNOT stand still and Kobe watch. It makes the offense stagnant and predictable. Only when other players are diving or cutting or popping out for a jumper does it become a lethal weapon that is hard to defend.

In today's game you really only saw boozer taking advantage of this. It got him several open looks. I remember Lamar used to be the dive man off of these sets and got plenty of buckets at the rim from it. Lin, Johnson, and Randle are all players who need to be making a move when Kobe gets doubled. I hope the team executes this better as the season progresses.
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Rivershow
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:41 pm    Post subject:

Agreed especially for a system that like the princeton that is supposed to feature player movement. There is too much watching.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:59 pm    Post subject:

Umm excuse me but ummm has this topic not been brought up like over the course of 8 seasons?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:07 pm    Post subject:

Kobe is officially back!
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:11 pm    Post subject:

the spacing is horrible. Hill and Wesley are left open clanking everything
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:30 pm    Post subject:

Kobe played well tonight overall. I just wish his vert was few inches higher that would mean getting his shoot off would be so much easier for him.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:30 am    Post subject:

Nightwalker wrote:
Kobe played well tonight overall. I just wish his vert was few inches higher that would mean getting his shoot off would be so much easier for him.


Unfortunately his vert will continue to suffer. Father Time will win this one...
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:47 am    Post subject:

Forget double teams he got tripled a ton. I don't see a defense freak like that on other people
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:53 am    Post subject:

ReaListik wrote:
Forget double teams he got tripled a ton. I don't see a defense freak like that on other people


He gets doubled because why not ? Teams can do that without penalty. I don't think Kobe has put that much pressure on defenses so far.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:12 am    Post subject: Re: A critical part to our offense: Kobe watching

22 wrote:
I'm highly encouraged by the fact that Kobe still commands a double team. Especially against good defenders like Thompson and AI today. When Kobe is operating at the elbow, low post, etc and that double comes it opens up opportunities for other guys.

But the team CANNOT stand still and Kobe watch. It makes the offense stagnant and predictable. Only when other players are diving or cutting or popping out for a jumper does it become a lethal weapon that is hard to defend.

In today's game you really only saw boozer taking advantage of this. It got him several open looks. I remember Lamar used to be the dive man off of these sets and got plenty of buckets at the rim from it. Lin, Johnson, and Randle are all players who need to be making a move when Kobe gets doubled. I hope the team executes this better as the season progresses.


Kobe's offensive IQ and prowess is truly remarkable. Physically he looks amazing, even with the noticeable decrease in elevation. Teams will have to put their best wing defender on him, even at his age. In this specific case, however, I believe the double teaming was due to Kerr wanting to protect Klay, and of Golden State's complete lack of respect for most of Kobe's teammates at the moment.

Klay, if left in single coverage on Kobe in the mid-to-low post, would have fouled out (or gotten in foul trouble) with the way Kobe was fooling him into reaching and being over-aggressive on defense. Klay was falling for Kobe's trap and Golden State made the very smart move to try to take the ball out of Kobe's hands (by sending a hard double) when he posted him up.

Unfortunately we will see this a lot unless we get much better, and more consistent offensive production from Hill, Johnson, and Lin (if he starts). Like you said, Boozer was really the only one to figure out how to take advantage of this defensive strategy (hard doubles on Kobe in the post) GS was employing...
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:16 am    Post subject:

I only watched the first half. Was Kobe attacking the rim more or more of the mid-range pull up or post game (fade aways)?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:24 am    Post subject:

This is why the team needs a great PG. If we had Rondo, Kobe watching wouldn't have happened. The offense would be started by Rondo, Kobe would still get touches but it would be in the flow of the offense.

Last edited by Dave20 on Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:30 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
I only watched the first half. Was Kobe attacking the rim more or more of the mid-range pull up or post game (fade aways)?


No, pretty much all mid-range, mostly fadeaway shots. Kobe didn't really try to impose his offensive will on the game in the second half, almost as if he was trying to see how his teammates would respond to being down and how they would react when GS started sending hard doubles at him (Kobe).

I don't know about anyone else but I got the feeling that the preseason game meant more to GS than it did to the Lakers...
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The Lebrons
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:30 am    Post subject:

This has always been an issue. But now we have 3 other non-threats (Hill, Boozer, and Johnson can't create their own shot) and Kobe can't create like he used to. A lot of pressure will fall on Lin. Honestly, Clarkson and Randle are the only other guys on the roster that can consistently create a shot for themselves. Not good...

Forgot Young is out, so that's one more guy.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:58 am    Post subject:

Hoop_Knowledge wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I only watched the first half. Was Kobe attacking the rim more or more of the mid-range pull up or post game (fade aways)?


No, pretty much all mid-range, mostly fadeaway shots. Kobe didn't really try to impose his offensive will on the game in the second half, almost as if he was trying to see how his teammates would respond to being down and how they would react when GS started sending hard doubles at him (Kobe).

I don't know about anyone else but I got the feeling that the preseason game meant more to GS than it did to the Lakers...


With the rate of our guys falling to injuries, the time will come to shut Kobe down in preseason. These games mean nothing. We are game # -6.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:13 am    Post subject:

zePokar wrote:
ReaListik wrote:
Forget double teams he got tripled a ton. I don't see a defense freak like that on other people


He gets doubled because why not ? Teams can do that without penalty. I don't think Kobe has put that much pressure on defenses so far.


They know the imposing threat that's there.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:10 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
I only watched the first half. Was Kobe attacking the rim more or more of the mid-range pull up or post game (fade aways)?


He was mixing it up... He was definately a little more aggressive this game but I don't think he's playing at full speed right now.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:30 am    Post subject:

In the preseason and early season, let's find some patience with regard to guys learning their roles. There's a new staff's systems being taught and learned, on top of any typical Summer rust.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:17 am    Post subject:

good insight fellas! I hope to see this team develop their offense as the season progresses.

With our defensive personnel we can't afford to be terrible on O
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:33 pm    Post subject: Re: A critical part to our offense: Kobe watching

22 wrote:
I'm highly encouraged by the fact that Kobe still commands a double team. Especially against good defenders like Thompson and AI today. When Kobe is operating at the elbow, low post, etc and that double comes it opens up opportunities for other guys.

But the team CANNOT stand still and Kobe watch. It makes the offense stagnant and predictable. Only when other players are diving or cutting or popping out for a jumper does it become a lethal weapon that is hard to defend.

In today's game you really only saw boozer taking advantage of this. It got him several open looks. I remember Lamar used to be the dive man off of these sets and got plenty of buckets at the rim from it. Lin, Johnson, and Randle are all players who need to be making a move when Kobe gets doubled. I hope the team executes this better as the season progresses.


When a player is isolating, you're supposed to spread out and stand around and watch so the spacing doesn't get clogged. If they send an extra defender or cheat in one direction, that's when cuts can happen. If teams are expecting Kobe to settle for a jumper, the cutting lanes are not going to open up.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:54 pm    Post subject: Re: A critical part to our offense: Kobe watching

Treble Clef wrote:
22 wrote:
I'm highly encouraged by the fact that Kobe still commands a double team. Especially against good defenders like Thompson and AI today. When Kobe is operating at the elbow, low post, etc and that double comes it opens up opportunities for other guys.

But the team CANNOT stand still and Kobe watch. It makes the offense stagnant and predictable. Only when other players are diving or cutting or popping out for a jumper does it become a lethal weapon that is hard to defend.

In today's game you really only saw boozer taking advantage of this. It got him several open looks. I remember Lamar used to be the dive man off of these sets and got plenty of buckets at the rim from it. Lin, Johnson, and Randle are all players who need to be making a move when Kobe gets doubled. I hope the team executes this better as the season progresses.


When a player is isolating, you're supposed to spread out and stand around and watch so the spacing doesn't get clogged. If they send an extra defender or cheat in one direction, that's when cuts can happen. If teams are expecting Kobe to settle for a jumper, the cutting lanes are not going to open up.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 3:27 pm    Post subject: Re: A critical part to our offense: Kobe watching

Treble Clef wrote:
22 wrote:
I'm highly encouraged by the fact that Kobe still commands a double team. Especially against good defenders like Thompson and AI today. When Kobe is operating at the elbow, low post, etc and that double comes it opens up opportunities for other guys.

But the team CANNOT stand still and Kobe watch. It makes the offense stagnant and predictable. Only when other players are diving or cutting or popping out for a jumper does it become a lethal weapon that is hard to defend.

In today's game you really only saw boozer taking advantage of this. It got him several open looks. I remember Lamar used to be the dive man off of these sets and got plenty of buckets at the rim from it. Lin, Johnson, and Randle are all players who need to be making a move when Kobe gets doubled. I hope the team executes this better as the season progresses.


When a player is isolating, you're supposed to spread out and stand around and watch so the spacing doesn't get clogged. If they send an extra defender or cheat in one direction, that's when cuts can happen. If teams are expecting Kobe to settle for a jumper, the cutting lanes are not going to open up.


Exactly. They need to move when the double comes.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:21 pm    Post subject:

The reality is that there is no space to do anything with all 5 players standing beneath the arc.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:36 pm    Post subject:

I've always been a fan of "Kobe-Magic"; always wanted him to give it a try for longer. How can you effectively change your style of play in 5-7 games; that's all he would try it for until everyone got fed up. But he showed potential as a passer IMO.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:43 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
I've always been a fan of "Kobe-Magic"; always wanted him to give it a try for longer. How can you effectively change your style of play in 5-7 games; that's all he would try it for until everyone got fed up. But he showed potential as a passer IMO.


He is tougher to guard when he is a willing passer but it seems unnatural for him to play that role long term even when its effective. It's not who he is.
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