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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58336
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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Yes and in the Lakers history - as hard as it has been - they have won championships paying those top players. Shaq/Kobe. Kobe/Gasol. Magic/Kareem.
The Lakers made a great trade in 2008 that brought them a 2nd max player in Gasol. IIRC Gasol was making 16-17 M a year at the time. Memphis was wary of his salary in part. We were willing to make the deal. It turned out great.
I am just a bit less eager to blow mega dollars of capspace on players who I think will be 3rd or 4th best types on a ring team. I feel the Lakers have 2 pressing needs. 1) A low post Center or impact big guy. 2) A #1 option to replace Kobe. Arguably Thompson could be that third critical piece which is a #2 option (although I'm not sure he's a championship #2). Ideally he'd be your 3rd option. If we had some of the key pieces in place, no problem in paying Klay. As is? I don't quite get the eagerness.
In contrast, GST is in position to pay. They have some core pieces. Curry is their #1. They had Lee/Bogut as bigs. They've got quite a lot to trade in those bigs, Harrison Barnes and Iggy.Basically if the Lakers were in their position, I'd be more than okay with seeing Klay get a big contract. GST can pay Klay 15+ M and still make trades or what not to become a contender eventually. With the Lakers OTOH, assuming they also have to sign a Center/Impact Big, and find a #1 option, I'm not sure we could pull it off. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:25 am Post subject: |
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Wolf, with the likely increase of the salary cap due to TV deals, Klay's contract will be slightly more than Odom's (from a salary cap standpoint) in 2016 and beyond. I think he's worth an Odom slot.
I think folks get to emotionally tied to the "max" language when compared to true non-rookie max contracts, it's a good deal.
I don't see a #1 option next year, and we will need to get lucky to get a low post threat via free agency. I think the lesson from free agency is that players want: 1) to get paid; 2) play on teams with established foundations.
We lack #2 and it makes it hard for players to cough up some $ to come here. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Dave20 Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2013 Posts: 11333
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Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:03 am Post subject: |
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SG's are a dime a dozen, it's been the easiest position to find in the league. Harden and Derozan are the only SG's worth max money because they can do more then just shoot. Harden can drive and is a great playmaker. Derozan is super athletic, can drive and pass. Max money should be for C's and superstars, not spot up shooters. Klay is one of the best shooters, but his game doesn't offer anything else. |
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-Showtime- Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Jul 2014 Posts: 324
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Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:04 am Post subject: |
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Really good player but not worth the max. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:11 am Post subject: |
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Again, don't get caught up with the "MAX" tag.
There are three max categories: rookie max (Hayward), and basically the post-rookie max contract (George), and the max contract after that (Kobe). There are a few wrinkles in the CBA depending on # of all-star games and all-NBA teams.
But the rookie max really isn't that devastating on the cap, especially considering the possibility of the cap going from mid-60s to possibly low 90s in a few years. Klay's rookie "max" will feel like 11-13m (depending on the annual cap raises) in a few years. He's EASILY worth that. That's Lamar Odom range from a cap standpoint and Klay as a 2 way player who is lights out as a shooter is worth that.
So again, when you get hung up on "max," remember, it's a rookie max that will be diluted by the TV deal salary cap bump. It's actually a great time to max out guys IMO. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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ch3cky0selff00 Star Player
Joined: 29 Dec 2009 Posts: 4392
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Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:54 am Post subject: |
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I wonder how effective Klay Thompson would be without a Stephen Curry handling the ball who attracts as much attention and gets into the paint as easy as he does. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:57 am Post subject: |
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ch3cky0selff00 wrote: | I wonder how effective Klay Thompson would be without a Stephen Curry handling the ball who attracts as much attention and gets into the paint as easy as he does. |
One could make the case for Steph too. Klay demands attention due to his ridiculous shooting so Steph gets single coverage. Perfect Yin/Yang. Can't double off either. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144461 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:09 am Post subject: |
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ch3cky0selff00 wrote: | I wonder how effective Klay Thompson would be without a Stephen Curry handling the ball who attracts as much attention and gets into the paint as easy as he does. |
Maybe we would see the Klay who would be driving and dishing instead of just shooting jumpers? I think some of those complaining about Klay being just a shooter were also complaining that Randle was just a post player in college. Identifying that players play roles the team defines for them, sometimes to the detriment of other parts of their game, seems to be something that the average fan has a hard time understanding. Take Ron Harper for example. He came out of college as being just a shooter, but soon was the PG and defensive player for the champion Bulls. Do you think that he couldn't have been that type of player in college, or do you think he filled the role his college coach asked of him? _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:11 am Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | ch3cky0selff00 wrote: | I wonder how effective Klay Thompson would be without a Stephen Curry handling the ball who attracts as much attention and gets into the paint as easy as he does. |
Maybe we would see the Klay who would be driving and dishing instead of just shooting jumpers? I think some of those complaining about Klay being just a shooter were also complaining that Randle was just a post player in college. Identifying that players play roles the team defines for them, sometimes to the detriment of other parts of their game, seems to be something that the average fan has a hard time understanding. Take Ron Harper for example. He came out of college as being just a shooter, but soon was the PG and defensive player for the champion Bulls. Do you think that he couldn't have been that type of player in college, or do you think he filled the role his college coach asked of him? |
I think Curry would be go differ with people who think Klay is a one dimensional and overrated player. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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22 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 17063
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Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:25 am Post subject: |
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I'm with yinomes on this one. People are getting too caught up in the term 'Max". His max is less than other max contracts and he is absolutely worth it when you consider the salary cap will be increasing.
The Lakers can't keep looking to hit a home run every time. They need to get some singles to load the bases and set things up for a grand slam. Having a player like KT on the roster will attract other FAs/stars |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:41 am Post subject: |
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22 wrote: | I'm with yinomes on this one. People are getting too caught up in the term 'Max". His max is less than other max contracts and he is absolutely worth it when you consider the salary cap will be increasing.
The Lakers can't keep looking to hit a home run every time. They need to get some singles to load the bases and set things up for a grand slam. Having a player like KT on the roster will attract other FAs/stars |
I'm fairly certain we're not getting Klay. But just imagine if we did and we ended up with a core of Klay/Randle/Kobe/(big man).
Then say Kobe retires in 2016, Durant sees Klay/Randle/big man (and tons of additional cap space even after signing Durant). I know the chances Durant comes here are probably slim, but just for purposes of this argument, you see how having a rim protector, a bruiser PF, and a deadly SG sets you up nicely going forward. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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zoogz Starting Rotation
Joined: 01 Dec 2013 Posts: 242
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Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:46 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | 22 wrote: | I'm with yinomes on this one. People are getting too caught up in the term 'Max". His max is less than other max contracts and he is absolutely worth it when you consider the salary cap will be increasing.
The Lakers can't keep looking to hit a home run every time. They need to get some singles to load the bases and set things up for a grand slam. Having a player like KT on the roster will attract other FAs/stars |
I'm fairly certain we're not getting Klay. But just imagine if we did and we ended up with a core of Klay/Randle/Kobe/(big man).
Then say Kobe retires in 2016, Durant sees Klay/Randle/big man (and tons of additional cap space even after signing Durant). I know the chances Durant comes here are probably slim, but just for purposes of this argument, you see how having a rim protector, a bruiser PF, and a deadly SG sets you up nicely going forward. |
Pretty much this, if we have most of the pieces together, it will be harder for big name FA's to overlook the Lakers when choosing their destination. |
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22 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 17063
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Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:50 am Post subject: |
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zoogz wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | 22 wrote: | I'm with yinomes on this one. People are getting too caught up in the term 'Max". His max is less than other max contracts and he is absolutely worth it when you consider the salary cap will be increasing.
The Lakers can't keep looking to hit a home run every time. They need to get some singles to load the bases and set things up for a grand slam. Having a player like KT on the roster will attract other FAs/stars |
I'm fairly certain we're not getting Klay. But just imagine if we did and we ended up with a core of Klay/Randle/Kobe/(big man).
Then say Kobe retires in 2016, Durant sees Klay/Randle/big man (and tons of additional cap space even after signing Durant). I know the chances Durant comes here are probably slim, but just for purposes of this argument, you see how having a rim protector, a bruiser PF, and a deadly SG sets you up nicely going forward. |
Pretty much this, if we have most of the pieces together, it will be harder for big name FA's to overlook the Lakers when choosing their destination. |
Yup agreed. We won't have a shot at Klay, but its moves like this that will set us up to be championship level again. Piece by piece |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:53 am Post subject: |
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22 wrote: | zoogz wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | 22 wrote: | I'm with yinomes on this one. People are getting too caught up in the term 'Max". His max is less than other max contracts and he is absolutely worth it when you consider the salary cap will be increasing.
The Lakers can't keep looking to hit a home run every time. They need to get some singles to load the bases and set things up for a grand slam. Having a player like KT on the roster will attract other FAs/stars |
I'm fairly certain we're not getting Klay. But just imagine if we did and we ended up with a core of Klay/Randle/Kobe/(big man).
Then say Kobe retires in 2016, Durant sees Klay/Randle/big man (and tons of additional cap space even after signing Durant). I know the chances Durant comes here are probably slim, but just for purposes of this argument, you see how having a rim protector, a bruiser PF, and a deadly SG sets you up nicely going forward. |
Pretty much this, if we have most of the pieces together, it will be harder for big name FA's to overlook the Lakers when choosing their destination. |
Yup agreed. We won't have a shot at Klay, but its moves like this that will set us up to be championship level again. Piece by piece |
And I firmly believe this...that FAs don't dislike Kobe. But are waiting for him to retire so they can be the Man on the Lakers. Kobe's too big of a presence for another superstar to share (insecurity on their end IMO). And FAs will gladly flock to assume that mantle once Kobe moves on.
That is why you want to have a solid foundation of players so when that player is available as a FA, you can bring him in. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Fruscas Star Player
Joined: 12 Mar 2013 Posts: 5130
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Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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ch3cky0selff00 wrote: | I wonder how effective Klay Thompson would be without a Stephen Curry handling the ball who attracts as much attention and gets into the paint as easy as he does. |
Yeah...i see Klay as a complementary player, you cant build anything great around him, i dont think, but he can be the missing piece, 2nd or 3rd player on a championship team, sure |
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K0BEE 2.0 Franchise Player
Joined: 17 May 2013 Posts: 10949 Location: I wish I knew
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Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | The 76ers are expected to repeat the exercise in trading Carter-Williams as he recovers from offseason surgery.
The 76ers do like Carter-Williams, but point guard is the most replaceable position in today's NBA and they continue to seek additional high-value draft picks. |
LINK
I would love to have MCW... but we have nothing to offer....... MCW/Randle would be a good young building block for the future. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144461 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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wolfpaclaker wrote: | Yes and in the Lakers history - as hard as it has been - they have won championships paying those top players. Shaq/Kobe. Kobe/Gasol. Magic/Kareem.
The Lakers made a great trade in 2008 that brought them a 2nd max player in Gasol. IIRC Gasol was making 16-17 M a year at the time. Memphis was wary of his salary in part. We were willing to make the deal. It turned out great.
I am just a bit less eager to blow mega dollars of capspace on players who I think will be 3rd or 4th best types on a ring team. I feel the Lakers have 2 pressing needs. 1) A low post Center or impact big guy. 2) A #1 option to replace Kobe. Arguably Thompson could be that third critical piece which is a #2 option (although I'm not sure he's a championship #2). Ideally he'd be your 3rd option. If we had some of the key pieces in place, no problem in paying Klay. As is? I don't quite get the eagerness.
In contrast, GST is in position to pay. They have some core pieces. Curry is their #1. They had Lee/Bogut as bigs. They've got quite a lot to trade in those bigs, Harrison Barnes and Iggy.Basically if the Lakers were in their position, I'd be more than okay with seeing Klay get a big contract. GST can pay Klay 15+ M and still make trades or what not to become a contender eventually. With the Lakers OTOH, assuming they also have to sign a Center/Impact Big, and find a #1 option, I'm not sure we could pull it off. |
What is sad is that we couldn't get Shaq or Kobe with the current CBA. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Bard207 Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2013 Posts: 7713
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Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: |
What is sad is that we couldn't get Shaq or Kobe with the current CBA. |
What is significantly different from the trade that the Lakers did with Charlotte close to two decades ago for the rights to Kobe and the trade that Philadelphia did with New Orleans in Summer 2013 for the rights to Nerlens Noel and a future draft pick? |
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dmorans1 Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Sep 2012 Posts: 11669
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Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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K0BEE 2.0 wrote: | Quote: | The 76ers are expected to repeat the exercise in trading Carter-Williams as he recovers from offseason surgery.
The 76ers do like Carter-Williams, but point guard is the most replaceable position in today's NBA and they continue to seek additional high-value draft picks. |
LINK
I would love to have MCW... but we have nothing to offer....... MCW/Randle would be a good young building block for the future. |
Kelly Clarkson and the HOU pick would be our best offer and that wouldn't be enough unfortunately. |
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LakerLand247 Star Player
Joined: 26 Sep 2009 Posts: 4809
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Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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I hate to break it to you guys. Even if you just add Klay Thompson to our current roster without having to give anything up; we would still have a hard time making the playoffs. Klay is the ideal 3rd superstar on a contender.
I'd rather spend my cap space maxing out a "Big" (Roy Hibbert). |
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Lakers_Jester Star Player
Joined: 17 Sep 2012 Posts: 5366
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Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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Things will be interesting if klay doesn't get the offer (max) he's seeking. Another guy whom might not get the offer (max) he's seeking is kawhi leonard, seeing as how the last guy sas has maxed out has been duncan. The SAS just rarely max out their players. |
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USCandLakers Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Mar 2008 Posts: 19955
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Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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Lakers_Jester wrote: | Things will be interesting if klay doesn't get the offer (max) he's seeking. Another guy whom might not get the offer (max) he's seeking is kawhi leonard, seeing as how the last guy sas has maxed out has been duncan. The SAS just rarely max out their players. |
I hope they do get stingy. Then again, the big 3 and Pop may have gotten in the poor kid's head and are probably already peer pressuring him into taking less. _________________ A banana is killed every time a terrible thread or post is made. Save the bananas. Stop creating terrible posts! |
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Nightwalker Star Player
Joined: 09 May 2013 Posts: 2739
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Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 12:06 am Post subject: |
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Fruscas wrote: | ch3cky0selff00 wrote: | I wonder how effective Klay Thompson would be without a Stephen Curry handling the ball who attracts as much attention and gets into the paint as easy as he does. |
Yeah...i see Klay as a complementary player, you cant build anything great around him, i dont think, but he can be the missing piece, 2nd or 3rd player on a championship team, sure |
Yup, Klay great 2nd or 3rd player on a contender but no way franchise player you can build your team around as the #1 option. |
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Lakers_Jester Star Player
Joined: 17 Sep 2012 Posts: 5366
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Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 1:01 am Post subject: |
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I consider klay as new school ray allen. Demeanor, shot, etc. They have differences but that's my comparison. Prime allen did more than just shoot btw.
While we're at it anthony davis game reminds me a ton of a new school duncan. Kawhi pippen? |
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RI Laker Star Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 7147
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Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 1:21 am Post subject: |
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Everyone is forgetting his age and the fact that he is a two way player. We would be LUCKY to sign him for any amount of $. |
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