Byron's Practices taking short term toll, but will yield long term success; According to Kobe
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MJST
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 3:32 pm    Post subject:

Byron Scott reveals the method to his madness; says he'll begin reigning back practices a little now
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“I have to be smarter about pushing them that much harder,” Scott said. “I pushed them pretty hard thus far. Now it’s time to take the reigns off a little bit. Let them get their legs back and then go from there.”

Clearly, the Lakers have plenty of players to monitor with care. But even if Scott scaled back Monday’s practice, he argued his heavy emphasis on conditioning fulfilled a specific purpose even if it did not help the Lakers avoid two double-digit losses to Golden State.

”The one thing I wanted to do against Golden State: We had a good, hard practice that morning, and then we had to play against a very good basketball team, so mentally it was a challenge," the coach explained.

"And also physically it was a challenge. But I think the guys understand or they’ll start to understand, and in a week from here they’ll start feeling so much better about their legs and they’ll be in so much better shape, and physically and mentally they’ll be in a better place."
http://www.insidesocal.com/lakers/2014/10/13/lakers-rest-kobe-bryant-steve-nash-jeremy-lin-in-mondays-practice/
http://www.nba.com/lakers/141310_BryantScott


http://cdn.nextimpulsesports.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/PAT.gif

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/--0r3wUwCfSw/Ua2YPj8DKtI/AAAAAAAANDQ/XCozOcLtWlg/s1600/ClappingPatRileygame7.gif


Last edited by MJST on Mon Oct 13, 2014 3:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 3:33 pm    Post subject:

yeah it's just preseason blah blah but it's still good for the team to win some games, pick up momentum going into regular season
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 3:34 pm    Post subject:

Well, Byron IS one win ahead of Brown's preseason, and Brown had healthy Kobe, Dwight, and Gasol...
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 3:37 pm    Post subject:

I'm just happy that Byron is listening to his players and reigning back a little(read first post above). It shows to me at least thus far that he's taken a bit from the mistakes he made in Cleveland etc. back then Byron would have kept running them. What he did and said today shows at least some growth from him as a coach from the stubborn guy he was in New Orleans and Cleveland. So, that's a very good sign imo.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:28 pm    Post subject:

The real news is that the Lakers aren't all that good right now. Is Kobe playing like a superstar? Nope. Do we have a second all-star? Nope.

Until Lakers get some actual 1-2 punch and a team that has talent to be good, even good coaching won't get this team to the playoffs.

The Lakers really need at least an all-star version (23/5) of Kobe this year. Without, they'll be hitting 30 wins at best.

Byron to me has made only 1 mistake so far. I mentioned this maybe on another board, but seems like he is going the extreme route. D'Antoni was in love with 3 ball (wanting them to shoot 25-30) and Byron is taking a 180 and we're shooting less than 10. How about some balance? A good offense has spacing. Even in the Triangle in Jackson era, and a lot of talented bigs, Lakers shot close to 20 three pointers. Lakers just need a balanced offense. I don't get the Mike Brown, MDA or Byron mentality on offense, to be honest. Brown just wanted to run it through his star. MDA wanted too much 3 point and high tempo without the talent. And now Scott wants mid-range and long 2's instead of much needed 3's. I simply don't get why coaches ignore the way Phil and Pop have won rings running balanced offenses. BTW, guys like that didn't always have championship teams, yet their teams still played balanced O. I don't get the "We have to only drive or attack the basket" mindset. It's a bad plan, Byron.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:49 pm    Post subject:

I look forward to to the last few pre-season games when the team isn't tired from the hard practices, is slightly more gelled, and features Lin and Davis getting a lot of minutes.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:01 pm    Post subject:

i think this team is somewhere in the middle how well they played against nuggets and how they played against GS the 1st night. once everyone gets healthy it won't seem so doom and gloom but a little surprised to see so many throwing in the towel already.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:04 pm    Post subject:

autoprt wrote:
i think this team is somewhere in the middle how well they played against nuggets and how they played against GS the 1st night. once everyone gets healthy it won't seem so doom and gloom but a little surprised to see so many throwing in the towel already.


If they were playing without a starter I'd be more amenable to the injury excuse. Sure I like Ryan Kelly, but I'm not convinced the coach has any idea how to use him.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:14 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
autoprt wrote:
i think this team is somewhere in the middle how well they played against nuggets and how they played against GS the 1st night. once everyone gets healthy it won't seem so doom and gloom but a little surprised to see so many throwing in the towel already.


If they were playing without a starter I'd be more amenable to the injury excuse.


Well they did hard running 1/2 hours before the game. Wesley, probably our most athletic player, miss a simple dunk(tired legs). And I think Nash should not be the starting PG.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:20 pm    Post subject:

ryan_c wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
autoprt wrote:
i think this team is somewhere in the middle how well they played against nuggets and how they played against GS the 1st night. once everyone gets healthy it won't seem so doom and gloom but a little surprised to see so many throwing in the towel already.


If they were playing without a starter I'd be more amenable to the injury excuse.


Well they did hard running 1/2 hours before the game. Wesley, probably our most athletic player, miss a simple dunk(tired legs). And I think Nash should not be the starting PG.


I don't think Wes is that important. Kobe has not been moving well at all IMO in this preseason. Yeah I know he's shot the ball well at times and shown craftiness, but athletically he's looked horrible. For instance the steal he had against Curry where he dribbled it home for a "dunk". I've seen centers handle the ball end to end faster than that. I honestly think Nash could beat him in a foot race.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:41 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
craftiness, but athletically he's looked horrible.


This few games into the pre season will not really gauge how Kobe will play for the rest of the season(I will at least give it a month(or more)) I have seen Kobe before in practice games,pre season games and regular season game athletically/slow/no lift like this,but only to turn it around later. I even saw many games of Kobe in his historical 35 ppg season where he is slow and seems can't drive anymore. I even remember a play in his 35 ppg season where he could have drive easily for a layup but instead opted for a lower percentage jump shot.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:50 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
ryan_c wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
autoprt wrote:
i think this team is somewhere in the middle how well they played against nuggets and how they played against GS the 1st night. once everyone gets healthy it won't seem so doom and gloom but a little surprised to see so many throwing in the towel already.


If they were playing without a starter I'd be more amenable to the injury excuse.


Well they did hard running 1/2 hours before the game. Wesley, probably our most athletic player, miss a simple dunk(tired legs). And I think Nash should not be the starting PG.


I don't think Wes is that important. Kobe has not been moving well at all IMO in this preseason. Yeah I know he's shot the ball well at times and shown craftiness, but athletically he's looked horrible. For instance the steal he had against Curry where he dribbled it home for a "dunk". I've seen centers handle the ball end to end faster than that. I honestly think Nash could beat him in a foot race.


Otoh, at least you are already in mid season form...
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 7:31 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
The real news is that the Lakers aren't all that good right now. Is Kobe playing like a superstar? Nope. Do we have a second all-star? Nope.

Until Lakers get some actual 1-2 punch and a team that has talent to be good, even good coaching won't get this team to the playoffs.

The Lakers really need at least an all-star version (23/5) of Kobe this year. Without, they'll be hitting 30 wins at best.

Byron to me has made only 1 mistake so far. I mentioned this maybe on another board, but seems like he is going the extreme route. D'Antoni was in love with 3 ball (wanting them to shoot 25-30) and Byron is taking a 180 and we're shooting less than 10. How about some balance? A good offense has spacing. Even in the Triangle in Jackson era, and a lot of talented bigs, Lakers shot close to 20 three pointers. Lakers just need a balanced offense. I don't get the Mike Brown, MDA or Byron mentality on offense, to be honest. Brown just wanted to run it through his star. MDA wanted too much 3 point and high tempo without the talent. And now Scott wants mid-range and long 2's instead of much needed 3's. I simply don't get why coaches ignore the way Phil and Pop have won rings running balanced offenses. BTW, guys like that didn't always have championship teams, yet their teams still played balanced O. I don't get the "We have to only drive or attack the basket" mindset. It's a bad plan, Byron.


I was initially excited to see Kobe play because the way sports commentators made it sound he was in need of a walker to get around so i was pumped to see he can run and jump still. Now, I'm noticing he has to rely heavily on the jumpshot and observers are constantly saying he looks like the old Kobe. He hasn't yet, he has to rely almost solely on that jumpshot which is not Kobe's game. He's built a legacy on footwork and unbelievable moves to get to the basket and dunk, layup, pass, or get fouled to get to the line. While I realize the age and injury I hope he can play at a similar level as 2012 Kobe. That would prevent the 30 win season.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 7:50 pm    Post subject:

ReaListik wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
The real news is that the Lakers aren't all that good right now. Is Kobe playing like a superstar? Nope. Do we have a second all-star? Nope.

Until Lakers get some actual 1-2 punch and a team that has talent to be good, even good coaching won't get this team to the playoffs.

The Lakers really need at least an all-star version (23/5) of Kobe this year. Without, they'll be hitting 30 wins at best.

Byron to me has made only 1 mistake so far. I mentioned this maybe on another board, but seems like he is going the extreme route. D'Antoni was in love with 3 ball (wanting them to shoot 25-30) and Byron is taking a 180 and we're shooting less than 10. How about some balance? A good offense has spacing. Even in the Triangle in Jackson era, and a lot of talented bigs, Lakers shot close to 20 three pointers. Lakers just need a balanced offense. I don't get the Mike Brown, MDA or Byron mentality on offense, to be honest. Brown just wanted to run it through his star. MDA wanted too much 3 point and high tempo without the talent. And now Scott wants mid-range and long 2's instead of much needed 3's. I simply don't get why coaches ignore the way Phil and Pop have won rings running balanced offenses. BTW, guys like that didn't always have championship teams, yet their teams still played balanced O. I don't get the "We have to only drive or attack the basket" mindset. It's a bad plan, Byron.


I was initially excited to see Kobe play because the way sports commentators made it sound he was in need of a walker to get around so i was pumped to see he can run and jump still. Now, I'm noticing he has to rely heavily on the jumpshot and observers are constantly saying he looks like the old Kobe. He hasn't yet, he has to rely almost solely on that jumpshot which is not Kobe's game. He's built a legacy on footwork and unbelievable moves to get to the basket and dunk, layup, pass, or get fouled to get to the line. While I realize the age and injury I hope he can play at a similar level as 2012 Kobe. That would prevent the 30 win season.



I've seen flashes of the lift and lateral movement to warrant optimism, yet, until he starts to score around the paint, it'll be troubling. Of course, if I remember correctly, early in his epic 2012-2013 campaign, he wasn't doing much rim attacking or dunking either, then he turned on the afterburners and started to dominate, so, given that, who he is, and the intensity of training camp, I'll hold off judgement until a month or so into the season.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:28 pm    Post subject:

the teams spacing is pathetic. so dont count on kobe attacking the paint, even if he could.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:55 pm    Post subject:

Team's spacing looks the way it does because the only three point shooter on our bench is Wayne Ellington

When Ryan Kellyt and Nick Young come back you'll see more threes. Aside from that there's no reason for Kobe to sit on the perimeter jacking up threes.

There's only three players on this team of the people active and playing who should be shooting threes

Steve Nash
Wesley Johnson
Wayne Ellington

Everybody else didn't play last night and Nash only played a quarter.

We'd have looked stupid jacking up threes last night and with our legs gone and shots falling short does anyone seriously think going 0-20 on threes would have helped serve any purpose but give Golden State more fast break points?
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 12:21 am    Post subject:

do you think it's also worth considering how coach byron has been controlling players' minutes so far during the pre-season?

even though total minutes played by all the players have been lower than regular season... they've been playing longer minutes per rotation. for example all the starters (minus j.hill and nash) have been playing 10+ minutes or more before being subbed near the end (or even to the end) of the first and third quarters. i notied they ended up playeng against the 2nd units of denver and warriors for all three games becuase they stayed out longer. anyone else notice this?

seems like scott's really trying to push the conditioning and playing the players under tough conditions during the pre-season. whether it pays off in the long run... we'll have to wait till the regular season.

what do you all think?
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 2:53 am    Post subject:

People here are looking too much into these pre-season games

last game, the team was flat out tired from practices and just didn't have any energy to consistently drive to the rim, ball wasn't moving at all and GSW killed us on the other end. We took 48 shots from mid-range, yet only 19 at the rim.

Come regular season, you'll see a much more balanced offense with set rotations.


The conditioning drills Scott is making the players run are so that they wouldn't be so inconsistent in the regular season in terms of having energy. 2013 was exactly that. young guys ran our team out of the gym most of the time. It's why our team looked good in the first half and then proceeded to get mauled in the 3rd quarter or down the stretch, shots falling short, etc.

These guys are professionals and I take their word for it.



And as far as success goes, the season mostly rides on Kobe's health. He looks good for a 36-year-old that's coming off two major leg injuries. He seems to be in his typical pre-season shape (talking about past-prime Kobe here). He'll amp it up and look much better during the season.

Remember 2013? Kobe started off looking a bit slow, but his jumper was money early in the season. Then the 2nd half of the season, he was playing 40 mpg and dunking on guys 10+ years younger than him. If there's anyone who knows anything about conditioning on this roster, it's Kobe. Young guys need to step it up and get on his level. That's what I believe Scott is trying to do right now.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:20 am    Post subject:

waldzell wrote:
do you think it's also worth considering how coach byron has been controlling players' minutes so far during the pre-season?

even though total minutes played by all the players have been lower than regular season... they've been playing longer minutes per rotation. for example all the starters (minus j.hill and nash) have been playing 10+ minutes or more before being subbed near the end (or even to the end) of the first and third quarters. i notied they ended up playeng against the 2nd units of denver and warriors for all three games becuase they stayed out longer. anyone else notice this?

seems like scott's really trying to push the conditioning and playing the players under tough conditions during the pre-season. whether it pays off in the long run... we'll have to wait till the regular season.

what do you all think?


Pretty much what he's doing.

He sent us out there with no legs against a fresh Warriors team that was trying their hardest.

No matchup in the regular season is gonna match that kind of pace they put on us.

The key is that these kind of trevails and tests and having our legs gone are all a part of the physical and mental challenge.

The key is that when we play teams in the season and we actually HAVE legs that it's easy in comparison to what we had to deal with in camp and pre-season. That's Scott's plan anyway.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:11 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
waldzell wrote:
do you think it's also worth considering how coach byron has been controlling players' minutes so far during the pre-season?

even though total minutes played by all the players have been lower than regular season... they've been playing longer minutes per rotation. for example all the starters (minus j.hill and nash) have been playing 10+ minutes or more before being subbed near the end (or even to the end) of the first and third quarters. i notied they ended up playeng against the 2nd units of denver and warriors for all three games becuase they stayed out longer. anyone else notice this?

seems like scott's really trying to push the conditioning and playing the players under tough conditions during the pre-season. whether it pays off in the long run... we'll have to wait till the regular season.

what do you all think?


Pretty much what he's doing.

He sent us out there with no legs against a fresh Warriors team that was trying their hardest.

No matchup in the regular season is gonna match that kind of pace they put on us.

The key is that these kind of trevails and tests and having our legs gone are all a part of the physical and mental challenge.

The key is that when we play teams in the season and we actually HAVE legs that it's easy in comparison to what we had to deal with in camp and pre-season. That's Scott's plan anyway.


That is unless players can't get to the regular season without nagging injuries.

I don't see the utility right now in having "hell weeks" style camps. Right now you have a 40 y.o. PG, a 36 y.o. SG coming off two major injuries, an older player in Boozer. Let's work on implementing the system and making these guys do P90x/Insanity. Conditioning is important, but so is making sure the older players survive camp.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 9:06 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
MJST wrote:
waldzell wrote:
do you think it's also worth considering how coach byron has been controlling players' minutes so far during the pre-season?

even though total minutes played by all the players have been lower than regular season... they've been playing longer minutes per rotation. for example all the starters (minus j.hill and nash) have been playing 10+ minutes or more before being subbed near the end (or even to the end) of the first and third quarters. i notied they ended up playeng against the 2nd units of denver and warriors for all three games becuase they stayed out longer. anyone else notice this?

seems like scott's really trying to push the conditioning and playing the players under tough conditions during the pre-season. whether it pays off in the long run... we'll have to wait till the regular season.

what do you all think?


Pretty much what he's doing.

He sent us out there with no legs against a fresh Warriors team that was trying their hardest.

No matchup in the regular season is gonna match that kind of pace they put on us.

The key is that these kind of trevails and tests and having our legs gone are all a part of the physical and mental challenge.

The key is that when we play teams in the season and we actually HAVE legs that it's easy in comparison to what we had to deal with in camp and pre-season. That's Scott's plan anyway.


That is unless players can't get to the regular season without nagging injuries.

I don't see the utility right now in having "hell weeks" style camps. Right now you have a 40 y.o. PG, a 36 y.o. SG coming off two major injuries, an older player in Boozer. Let's work on implementing the system and making these guys do P90x/Insanity. Conditioning is important, but so is making sure the older players survive camp.


Interesting though that the injuries seem to be with the younger guys -- X, Kelly, Lin, Clarkson, Young. I think he's giving the 3 old timers the rest they need.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 9:24 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
The real news is that the Lakers aren't all that good right now. Is Kobe playing like a superstar? Nope. Do we have a second all-star? Nope.

Until Lakers get some actual 1-2 punch and a team that has talent to be good, even good coaching won't get this team to the playoffs.

The Lakers really need at least an all-star version (23/5) of Kobe this year. Without, they'll be hitting 30 wins at best.

Byron to me has made only 1 mistake so far. I mentioned this maybe on another board, but seems like he is going the extreme route. D'Antoni was in love with 3 ball (wanting them to shoot 25-30) and Byron is taking a 180 and we're shooting less than 10. How about some balance? A good offense has spacing. Even in the Triangle in Jackson era, and a lot of talented bigs, Lakers shot close to 20 three pointers. Lakers just need a balanced offense. I don't get the Mike Brown, MDA or Byron mentality on offense, to be honest. Brown just wanted to run it through his star. MDA wanted too much 3 point and high tempo without the talent. And now Scott wants mid-range and long 2's instead of much needed 3's. I simply don't get why coaches ignore the way Phil and Pop have won rings running balanced offenses. BTW, guys like that didn't always have championship teams, yet their teams still played balanced O. I don't get the "We have to only drive or attack the basket" mindset. It's a bad plan, Byron.


It's important to get the team into the drive, short jumpers, and create interior shots mentality first, instead of looking for 3s early and get players chucking shots that only create easy opportunity for the opponents. The Golden State game was an aberration very few teams have that kind of perimeter shooting. I'm sure once the players begin to understand the offense the three's will come at a greater pace.

I liked the way the NO hornets ran their offense when CP3 was their pg. They had a good balance of 3's and interior offense, unfortunately the Lakers don't have good talent to do that. At this point Byron is really trying to figure out what is that these guys actually do well if anything. Do they have any decent 3 pt shooters besides Ellington and Young?
Time will tell what this team's identity is right now it's pretty blurry to blame Scott.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 9:47 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Team's spacing looks the way it does because the only three point shooter on our bench is Wayne Ellington

When Ryan Kellyt and Nick Young come back you'll see more threes. Aside from that there's no reason for Kobe to sit on the perimeter jacking up threes.

There's only three players on this team of the people active and playing who should be shooting threes

Steve Nash
Wesley Johnson
Wayne Ellington

Everybody else didn't play last night and Nash only played a quarter.

We'd have looked stupid jacking up threes last night and with our legs gone and shots falling short does anyone seriously think going 0-20 on threes would have helped serve any purpose but give Golden State more fast break points?


I think going 20-20 on threes would have helped.

You seriously think that would hurt the team?
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 9:57 am    Post subject:

Atticus wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
MJST wrote:
waldzell wrote:
do you think it's also worth considering how coach byron has been controlling players' minutes so far during the pre-season?

even though total minutes played by all the players have been lower than regular season... they've been playing longer minutes per rotation. for example all the starters (minus j.hill and nash) have been playing 10+ minutes or more before being subbed near the end (or even to the end) of the first and third quarters. i notied they ended up playeng against the 2nd units of denver and warriors for all three games becuase they stayed out longer. anyone else notice this?

seems like scott's really trying to push the conditioning and playing the players under tough conditions during the pre-season. whether it pays off in the long run... we'll have to wait till the regular season.

what do you all think?


Pretty much what he's doing.

He sent us out there with no legs against a fresh Warriors team that was trying their hardest.

No matchup in the regular season is gonna match that kind of pace they put on us.

The key is that these kind of trevails and tests and having our legs gone are all a part of the physical and mental challenge.

The key is that when we play teams in the season and we actually HAVE legs that it's easy in comparison to what we had to deal with in camp and pre-season. That's Scott's plan anyway.


That is unless players can't get to the regular season without nagging injuries.

I don't see the utility right now in having "hell weeks" style camps. Right now you have a 40 y.o. PG, a 36 y.o. SG coming off two major injuries, an older player in Boozer. Let's work on implementing the system and making these guys do P90x/Insanity. Conditioning is important, but so is making sure the older players survive camp.


Interesting though that the injuries seem to be with the younger guys -- X, Kelly, Lin, Clarkson, Young. I think he's giving the 3 old timers the rest they need.


having a nagging injury to start off the year is one of the worst ways for young players to decline through the course of a season. So players can run a 6:30 mile instead of 6:55. If the price is nagging injuries, not worth IMO.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:09 am    Post subject:

Jodie Meeks out several months with a stress reaction in his back.

If he were still a Laker, how crazy would the whining be at this point?
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