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lukewaltonsdad
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Joined: 09 Jul 2014
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 Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| I don't want any part of Westbrook. I sure hope we don't go in that direction. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| Jim99187 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | Rivershow wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | I think wolf's Bynum analogy is a pretty good one, in terms of how the FO will approach Randle. We won't necessarily go out looking to deal him, but if a star hit the market, he'd be available.
Let's say, for arguments sake, that OKC struggles a bit this year in the wake of Durant's injury, and Russell Westbrook starts rumbling about wanting to come home to LA. You don't think we'd flip Randle + salary filler and a couple of picks for him? We'd do it in a heartbeat. |
That depends on how much the lakers value a pg over a pf. There a plenty of great pg's in the league but not many great pf's. They may prefer to hang onto Randle see how he develops and go after a guy like Rondo or some other pg. |
Westbrook's one of the 5 to 10 best players in the league, regardless of position. Simply put, he is what you hope Randle becomes in the best case scenario. If you get someone at 25 years old that's locked in for a couple of years and wants to be here full time, you pull the trigger and don't look back.
There's nothing in the Lakers history that suggests that they value one particular position over another, and certainly not PFs. I think highly of Randle and greatly value his rookie contract, but guys like Westbrook are considerably more difficult to acquire. |
If we were closer to a title I would be all over that, but Westbrook strikes me as a guy who will be spent at the age of 30. He relies so much on athleticism and, quite honestly, is ignorant of taking care of his body, which isn't a good thing for an athletic player. When I saw him take a spill trying to goal tend a shot after a foul was called last season, I saw a guy who made poor decisions. |
dude you keep complaining about every damm player...melo no..westbrook...no some random guy no....love..no
I bet you will find something to complain if we were in conversation to get the current lebron or melo...SMH |
I guess "names" don't impress me. Like I said, if we were in a position to compete for a title in the next 2-3 seasons, Randle for Westbrook would be a no brainer. But we aren't, so I would rather keep the yute than trade it away for a guy who will be in a decline when we are ready to compete. |
Westrbook + capspace will be more attractive for future free agents then randle + humongous cap space. |
Can we stop with the "more attractive for future free agents" angle? It doesn't work.
There is only one player in the NBA who attracts free agents and he just signed with the Cavs. |
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Rivershow
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Joined: 09 Dec 2011
Posts: 6731
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | I think the difference here is that you want an immediate return, while i'm advocating for a longer-term rebuild. Randle at nearly 1/5th or 1/6th of the price of a player like Westbrook allows the team to gradually upgrade. You throw Randle away, and it's all on Westbrook.
I hope the team elects to incrementally re-build while giving us a chance to nab a max slot player.
I know the Lakers typically swing for the fences, but the times Mitch/Buss have done it, they've had the luxury of Kobe Bean. Now that we are at the end of his career, we need to establish a foundation when he is gone. |
That's what I was saying. If the lakers trade Randle for westbrook that is putting a huge amount of pressure to win now when we honestly don't have the pieces. We should be looking at a long term building project with Randle as the foundation. Keep Randle, get a great pg in free agency and you have a solid foundation at two positions instead of just one in a westbrook trade. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| Rivershow wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | I think the difference here is that you want an immediate return, while i'm advocating for a longer-term rebuild. Randle at nearly 1/5th or 1/6th of the price of a player like Westbrook allows the team to gradually upgrade. You throw Randle away, and it's all on Westbrook.
I hope the team elects to incrementally re-build while giving us a chance to nab a max slot player.
I know the Lakers typically swing for the fences, but the times Mitch/Buss have done it, they've had the luxury of Kobe Bean. Now that we are at the end of his career, we need to establish a foundation when he is gone. |
That's what I was saying. If the lakers trade Randle for westbrook that is putting a huge amount of pressure to win now when we honestly don't have the pieces. We should be looking at a long term building project with Randle as the foundation. Keep Randle, get a great pg in free agency and you have a solid foundation at two positions instead of just one in a westbrook trade. |
With Randle, and assuming he projects to be a near or all star level player, that rookie deal is what will allow the team to grab free agents while keeping a good player on a small contract (Randle). Plus you establish some continuity and culture through Randle. If you have a band of free agents that come/go, where is the underlying culture? We have had Kobe as the constant here, with mixes of Fisher, Pau, Odom, etc. Continuity is important and that started/ended with Kobe. I hope Randle can be that piece.
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Rivershow
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Posts: 6731
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Rivershow wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | I think the difference here is that you want an immediate return, while i'm advocating for a longer-term rebuild. Randle at nearly 1/5th or 1/6th of the price of a player like Westbrook allows the team to gradually upgrade. You throw Randle away, and it's all on Westbrook.
I hope the team elects to incrementally re-build while giving us a chance to nab a max slot player.
I know the Lakers typically swing for the fences, but the times Mitch/Buss have done it, they've had the luxury of Kobe Bean. Now that we are at the end of his career, we need to establish a foundation when he is gone. |
That's what I was saying. If the lakers trade Randle for westbrook that is putting a huge amount of pressure to win now when we honestly don't have the pieces. We should be looking at a long term building project with Randle as the foundation. Keep Randle, get a great pg in free agency and you have a solid foundation at two positions instead of just one in a westbrook trade. |
With Randle, and assuming he projects to be a near or all star level player, that rookie deal is what will allow the team to grab free agents while keeping a good player on a small contract (Randle). Plus you establish some continuity and culture through Randle. If you have a band of free agents that come/go, where is the underlying culture? We have had Kobe as the constant here, with mixes of Fisher, Pau, Odom, etc. Continuity is important and that started/ended with Kobe. I hope Randle can be that piece. |
Same here. |
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Dreamshake
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Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13712
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| Jim99187 wrote: | | I doubt anybody is coming here to play a rookie who maybe all star 1 day |
I doubt that too. I don't doubt seeing what we saw in the Miami and Cleveland situations....a team with a good piece and tons of cap space attracting a few top guys. I think LA can easily rebuild in the summer of 2016. |
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andree
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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In this moment I do the trade in a heartbeat.
I really like Randle and I believe and hope he will be an allstar in a few years. But Westbrook is an allstar and 25 years old. And a freak of nature.
I am with Jim here. Having Westbrook will atract other big fishes. In this moment Randle atract nobody. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| andree wrote: | In this moment I do the trade in a heartbeat.
I really like Randle and I believe and hope he will be an allstar in a few years. But Westbrook is an allstar and 25 years old. And a freak of nature.
I am with Jim here. Having Westbrook will atract other big fishes. In this moment Randle atract nobody. |
Who is even talking about Westbrook here? Even Jim the poster concedes there is no trade talk re: Westbrook.
It's not Randle attracting players on his own. It's Randle + cap space for a max player, as well as a chance to be the Man on the Lakers when Kobe is gone.
Westbrook will be 29-30 when he's a free agent in 2017.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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It isn't like we can sign anyone at this time anyway.
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Jim99187
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Joined: 03 Jan 2014
Posts: 22138
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | andree wrote: | In this moment I do the trade in a heartbeat.
I really like Randle and I believe and hope he will be an allstar in a few years. But Westbrook is an allstar and 25 years old. And a freak of nature.
I am with Jim here. Having Westbrook will atract other big fishes. In this moment Randle atract nobody. |
Who is even talking about Westbrook here? Even Jim the poster concedes there is no trade talk re: Westbrook.
It's not Randle attracting players on his own. It's Randle + cap space for a max player, as well as a chance to be the Man on the Lakers when Kobe is gone.
Westbrook will be 29-30 when he's a free agent in 2017. |
how did that work out for howard?
We had Randle + Kobe + Cap Space and nobody came. what makes u think Randle + Cap Space is going to get you anything? |
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Lakers_Jester
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Joined: 17 Sep 2012
Posts: 5366
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Bard207 wrote: | | Lakers_Jester wrote: |
Now, on another note, I'd like to see us strike a deal with Indiana for hibbert in a deal involving the Houston pick, and then turning around and involving j hill for Harrison barnes. Would need other teams to make salaries match but I think Indiana would see value in that pick and warriors really need a true backup center for when bogut gets hurt.
Maybe even a 3 team deal between those 3?
LAL out: jhill, henry, nash, Hou pick
LAL in: hibbert, barnes
GSW out: barnes, livingston, speights, kuzmic, a pick
GSW in: George hill, jordan hill
GSW has 2 trade exceptions I believe to make salaries match.
INDY out: Hibbert, George Hill
INDY in: livingston, nash, speights, henry, kuzmic, Hou pick, GSW pick.
Then we'd roll with lin, kobe, barnes, randle, hibbert. Or lin, kobe, johnson, boozer, hibbert. Or mix em up however you want.
Edit: Why does indy do this? They tank this lost season, get some cheap useful players, save money w nash as a big expiring, and get picks.
GSW upgrades at the backup pg and backup c position.
Lal obviously upgrades at starting c position and gain a wing with potential. |
That trade impairs roster flexibility for the Warriors and I doubt they would be interested in doing it even if they didn't have to send out a pick as per your suggested scenario.
In regards to the Warriors having two trade exceptions, how would they be used in a trade scenario with J Hill ($9 million) and G Hill ($8 million) coming in? |
You're right. How about:
LAL out: nash, jhill, Hou pick, future 2nd rounder
LAL in: barnes, hibbert
GSW out: barnes, speights
GSW in: jordan hill
Indy out: hibbert
indy in: nash, speights, Hou pick, future 2nd
Salaries match. INDY saves money w nash as a huge expiring, gets some picks, and tanks the lost season. GSW upgrades backup center which is important for when bogut gets inevitably hurt. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Jim99187 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | andree wrote: | In this moment I do the trade in a heartbeat.
I really like Randle and I believe and hope he will be an allstar in a few years. But Westbrook is an allstar and 25 years old. And a freak of nature.
I am with Jim here. Having Westbrook will atract other big fishes. In this moment Randle atract nobody. |
Who is even talking about Westbrook here? Even Jim the poster concedes there is no trade talk re: Westbrook.
It's not Randle attracting players on his own. It's Randle + cap space for a max player, as well as a chance to be the Man on the Lakers when Kobe is gone.
Westbrook will be 29-30 when he's a free agent in 2017. |
how did that work out for howard?
We had Randle + Kobe + Cap Space and nobody came. what makes u think Randle + Cap Space is going to get you anything? |
How do you know what kind of player Randle will be in 2 years? You don't. As for Howard, he didn't want to be the man, Randle is already showing more fire than Howard ever did.
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Jim99187
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Joined: 03 Jan 2014
Posts: 22138
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | andree wrote: | In this moment I do the trade in a heartbeat.
I really like Randle and I believe and hope he will be an allstar in a few years. But Westbrook is an allstar and 25 years old. And a freak of nature.
I am with Jim here. Having Westbrook will atract other big fishes. In this moment Randle atract nobody. |
Who is even talking about Westbrook here? Even Jim the poster concedes there is no trade talk re: Westbrook.
It's not Randle attracting players on his own. It's Randle + cap space for a max player, as well as a chance to be the Man on the Lakers when Kobe is gone.
Westbrook will be 29-30 when he's a free agent in 2017. |
how did that work out for howard?
We had Randle + Kobe + Cap Space and nobody came. what makes u think Randle + Cap Space is going to get you anything? |
How do you know what kind of player Randle will be in 2 years? You don't. As for Howard, he didn't want to be the man, Randle is already showing more fire than Howard ever did. |
exactly my point. Even in 2 yrs Randle wont be a finished product. why would any star come play with him? |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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That isn't your point, your point is that he won't be good enough for other players to want to play with.
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Jim99187
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | That isn't your point, your point is that he won't be good enough for other players to want to play with. |
even if he is on the rise nobody will come cause you need to have a better team then having cap fodders in hill @9mil and others on 1 yr deal.
somebody will come if that 1 player is westbrook or that type. not a rookie |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Jim99187 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | That isn't your point, your point is that he won't be good enough for other players to want to play with. |
even if he is on the rise nobody will come cause you need to have a better team then having cap fodders in hill @9mil and others on 1 yr deal.
somebody will come if that 1 player is westbrook or that type. not a rookie |
Or "that type?" As if getting a top 5 player like Westbrook is possible with our current assets. I think this line of argument is a bit disingenous. Before you tell us that players will flock to play with Westbrook "or that type," do tell us how we get that player. Why not replace Westbrook with Lebron or Durant? (There is not even a hint of Westbrook being on the block).
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Lakers_Jester
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Who the hell cares. Randle at this moment won't even yield a westbrook caliber player so the argument is pointless, regardless if it should be done or not. |
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Jim99187
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Joined: 03 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | That isn't your point, your point is that he won't be good enough for other players to want to play with. |
even if he is on the rise nobody will come cause you need to have a better team then having cap fodders in hill @9mil and others on 1 yr deal.
somebody will come if that 1 player is westbrook or that type. not a rookie |
Or "that type?" As if getting a top 5 player like Westbrook is possible with our current assets. I think this line of argument is a bit disingenous. Before you tell us that players will flock to play with Westbrook "or that type," do tell us how we get that player. Why not replace Westbrook with Lebron or Durant? (There is not even a hint of Westbrook being on the block). |
we have 2 different perspectives. mine is to treat randle as an asset and flip him for a star/superstar which will attract other stars with capspace
your perspective is to build through randle and try to attract FA which i think is not going to work.
also I am not Nostradamus to tell you what type of players will be available or their names.
westbrook was taken as an example by GT and it didnt mean u have to take westbrook literally. nobody said there is a hint. |
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Jim99187
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakers_Jester wrote: | | Who the hell cares. Randle at this moment won't even yield a westbrook caliber player so the argument is pointless, regardless if it should be done or not. |
agreed 100%. people are literally taking westbrook as a name and asking if he is on the block SMH |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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Only way Randle fetches a superstar if he's playing like one this year. Implausible as that scenario is, id rather keep him and pay him a fraction of what a guy like Westbrook is making AND have cap space to improve.
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Jim99187 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | That isn't your point, your point is that he won't be good enough for other players to want to play with. |
even if he is on the rise nobody will come cause you need to have a better team then having cap fodders in hill @9mil and others on 1 yr deal.
somebody will come if that 1 player is westbrook or that type. not a rookie |
They won't have those guys, they will have cap space instead
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dcarter4kobe
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Joined: 30 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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Not going after Bledsoe & Stephenson will hurt for a while. Could of had both if we striked early
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Jeffs
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | Rivershow wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | I think wolf's Bynum analogy is a pretty good one, in terms of how the FO will approach Randle. We won't necessarily go out looking to deal him, but if a star hit the market, he'd be available.
Let's say, for arguments sake, that OKC struggles a bit this year in the wake of Durant's injury, and Russell Westbrook starts rumbling about wanting to come home to LA. You don't think we'd flip Randle + salary filler and a couple of picks for him? We'd do it in a heartbeat. |
That depends on how much the lakers value a pg over a pf. There a plenty of great pg's in the league but not many great pf's. They may prefer to hang onto Randle see how he develops and go after a guy like Rondo or some other pg. |
Westbrook's one of the 5 to 10 best players in the league, regardless of position. Simply put, he is what you hope Randle becomes in the best case scenario. If you get someone at 25 years old that's locked in for a couple of years and wants to be here full time, you pull the trigger and don't look back.
There's nothing in the Lakers history that suggests that they value one particular position over another, and certainly not PFs. I think highly of Randle and greatly value his rookie contract, but guys like Westbrook are considerably more difficult to acquire. |
If we were closer to a title I would be all over that, but Westbrook strikes me as a guy who will be spent at the age of 30. He relies so much on athleticism and, quite honestly, is ignorant of taking care of his body, which isn't a good thing for an athletic player. When I saw him take a spill trying to goal tend a shot after a foul was called last season, I saw a guy who made poor decisions. |
dude you keep complaining about every damm player...melo no..westbrook...no some random guy no....love..no
I bet you will find something to complain if we were in conversation to get the current lebron or melo...SMH |
I guess "names" don't impress me. Like I said, if we were in a position to compete for a title in the next 2-3 seasons, Randle for Westbrook would be a no brainer. But we aren't, so I would rather keep the yute than trade it away for a guy who will be in a decline when we are ready to compete. |
Westrbook + capspace will be more attractive for future free agents then randle + humongous cap space. |
Can we stop with the "more attractive for future free agents" angle? It doesn't work.
There is only one player in the NBA who attracts free agents and he just signed with the Cavs. |
That's a load of crap.
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Jeffs
I feel like I just watched someone TRULY give 100%. Not the BS I'm-gonna-give-a-110%-just-like-everyone-else-says platitudes, but someone that went until he just....broke. - GT |
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frenchbullcho
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Jim99187 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | That isn't your point, your point is that he won't be good enough for other players to want to play with. |
even if he is on the rise nobody will come cause you need to have a better team then having cap fodders in hill @9mil and others on 1 yr deal.
somebody will come if that 1 player is westbrook or that type. not a rookie |
Or "that type?" As if getting a top 5 player like Westbrook is possible with our current assets. I think this line of argument is a bit disingenous. Before you tell us that players will flock to play with Westbrook "or that type," do tell us how we get that player. Why not replace Westbrook with Lebron or Durant? (There is not even a hint of Westbrook being on the block). |
we have 2 different perspectives. mine is to treat randle as an asset and flip him for a star/superstar which will attract other stars with capspace
your perspective is to build through randle and try to attract FA which i think is not going to work.
also I am not Nostradamus to tell you what type of players will be available or their names.
westbrook was taken as an example by GT and it didnt mean u have to take westbrook literally. nobody said there is a hint. |
Why wouldn't it work? |
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Palin
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Wonder if Nash, rockets pick and clarkson can land us rondo. |
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