There would have been one way to avoid the situation we're in now.
And that would have been to let Kobe Bryant walk in 2010
Letting Kobe walk has not and would not have ever been considered. Trading Bynum for Melo though...
I agree. But in hindsight, had we done that, we'd likely be in a much better position than we are today since we'd be in year 4 of a rebuild.
When you're rebuilding, you can afford to hit a lot of singles. When you have a megastar that has only a few years of elite play left, your window is small so you have to take some big risks and hope they pan out.
We took the right risk. It just didn't pan out. So the rebuild will have to start much later. We could have been whining about what should have been in 2011-2012 or in 2014-2015. We would be whining at some point or another.
Letting Kobe walk in 2010 would have been idiotic. I don't think they would have survived the backlash. That would be like Mark Cuban letting Chandler go in 2011 x1000000. We won the Championship in 2010 and you let Kobe walk? What player would come here when your star player gets treated like that?
Totally agree. It would have been idiotic. And I was completely on board with extending Kobe then at any price.
My point is that by re-signing Kobe, a player of his caliber, at his age, the FO had to go for a final home run shot and that almost always involves forgoing some future pieces (because that's what the asset holders you're trying to acquire, want).
I'm glad we have a FO that recognized that, and gave it a final go. Sure, it didn't pan out and obviously that sucks but the point is, they realized the situation they were in and went for it.
But you have to pay the piper at some point. We chose not to do it in 2011, which is fine, and so we're paying the piper now.
If we're going to play the hindsight game, then maybe the right thing to do would have been let Kobe walk. We haven't won a championship since that extension so we should have just started the rebuild then right? As for me, I'm glad we didn't, even if it didn't result in a ring. And I'm glad we reached for the stars in Dwight and Nash, even though it didn't result in a ring.
the Lakers front office has failed miserably. Since the last title in 2010 its been one disaster after another with very few positives in between.
Just reflect on that statement for a minute. The Knicks are 40+ years in waiting, and more than 65% of the rest of the NBA has not been in the Finals let alone won a ring.
It's been 4 years since our last back-to-back. Just soak in that for a minute...
I don't care about the Knicks and the rest of the NBA! I care about the Lakers. Just because its only been 4 years since the last title doesn't give them a pass to just drive the ship into the ground with horrible decision making after horrible decision making.
Make this sink in..... in 2010 we had a front court of Odom, Bynum and Pau. That was our CHAMPIONSHIP front court. Today they are all gone.... What exactly do we have to show for them? What did our front office get for them? The only "asset" we have from that front court is Nash... if you could call him an asset. So they basically disassembled a championship front court for NOTHING in return. So we should be Ok with this?
It's called equity. The FO has earned equity with me as a fan. When you have a FO that decade after decade deliver crap, then you have no equity and heads should roll.
But in the past 15 years, the Lakers have won 5 championships and been in the Finals 7 times.
I think they've earned that equity. I'm giving them at least until 2016 to start getting their ISH together.
fair enough... but some are less patient than others... your 2016 for me is now. They've had ample chances to get the ship sailing in the right direction but they've failed thus far.
We as fans have to realize that things have changed since Mitch built our last title teams, and drastically changed since West last built a winner. With today's CBA, we could have never signed Shaq or made the Kobe trade. The restrictions this FO is working under are greater than any previous Laker FO. They were forced to trade draft picks to fill holes and to build from scratch without picks, a cap space plan is the only one that makes rebuilding possible.
Quite simply you have a team that got it right with CP3, got that squashed, and got right back in with a huge risk/reward move a year later (the risk was largely based on the effects of the veto and having to go after Nash instead of Cp3, and trading and hoping with Howard as opposed to an easy transaction), which as we all know, blew up. Most teams never even get to the first of those two, much less pull both a year apart.
Given what happened, Nash and Howard set them back to actually below where they were when they got them, so I have them in year 2 of the rebuild this year.
That's my sentiment exactly. Year 2 of rebuild. I have the patience to wait. People expect a quick fix but, often when that happens, it hampers the team in the long run. _________________ Music is my medicine
the Lakers front office has failed miserably. Since the last title in 2010 its been one disaster after another with very few positives in between.
Just reflect on that statement for a minute. The Knicks are 40+ years in waiting, and more than 65% of the rest of the NBA has not been in the Finals let alone won a ring.
It's been 4 years since our last back-to-back. Just soak in that for a minute...
I don't care about the Knicks and the rest of the NBA! I care about the Lakers. Just because its only been 4 years since the last title doesn't give them a pass to just drive the ship into the ground with horrible decision making after horrible decision making.
Make this sink in..... in 2010 we had a front court of Odom, Bynum and Pau. That was our CHAMPIONSHIP front court. Today they are all gone.... What exactly do we have to show for them? What did our front office get for them? The only "asset" we have from that front court is Nash... if you could call him an asset. So they basically disassembled a championship front court for NOTHING in return. So we should be Ok with this?
It's called equity. The FO has earned equity with me as a fan. When you have a FO that decade after decade deliver crap, then you have no equity and heads should roll.
But in the past 15 years, the Lakers have won 5 championships and been in the Finals 7 times.
I think they've earned that equity. I'm giving them at least until 2016 to start getting their ISH together.
fair enough... but some are less patient than others... your 2016 for me is now. They've had ample chances to get the ship sailing in the right direction but they've failed thus far.
We as fans have to realize that things have changed since Mitch built our last title teams, and drastically changed since West last built a winner. With today's CBA, we could have never signed Shaq or made the Kobe trade. The restrictions this FO is working under are greater than any previous Laker FO. They were forced to trade draft picks to fill holes and to build from scratch without picks, a cap space plan is the only one that makes rebuilding possible.
Quite simply you have a team that got it right with CP3, got that squashed, and got right back in with a huge risk/reward move a year later (the risk was largely based on the effects of the veto and having to go after Nash instead of Cp3, and trading and hoping with Howard as opposed to an easy transaction), which as we all know, blew up. Most teams never even get to the first of those two, much less pull both a year apart.
Given what happened, Nash and Howard set them back to actually below where they were when they got them, so I have them in year 2 of the rebuild this year.
That's my sentiment exactly. Year 2 of rebuild. I have the patience to wait. People expect a quick fix but, often when that happens, it hampers the team in the long run.
Isiah Thomqw and Lance with Randle would be nice building blocks and didnt get absurd contracts...Mitch has failed people use cp3 fiasco but hes failed sice 2008 not king this team better
That's my sentiment exactly. Year 2 of rebuild. I have the patience to wait. People expect a quick fix but, often when that happens, it hampers the team in the long run.
Likewise, I'm 100% on board with rebuilding. Except the ownership was too proud and arrogant to accept that finality. You want to rebuild, you send away older players away to get assets. Kaman, Hill were valuable pieces for playoff teams. Pau shoulda been dealt for a high pick years ago. Drummond was easily in your hand because Wizards desperately wanted a Center to go with undersized Nene. Pau was that piece, instead they went for Okafor.
Rebuilding also means you sacrifice meaningless wins to better your chances at a higher pick. Randle will eventually be a good player but he doesn't have the high ceiling Exum has. 2 less wins woulda gotten Exum. Exum under Kobe's mentorship would be on the fast track to be a monster. Randle - what Kobe tells him isn't 100% translatable as he plays a much different position. Randle naturally would lean on Boozer on how to play the position.
Well we have plenty of below average PF on this team with the big rookie pickup playing...PF. Thin everywhere else....what is wrong with this picture? Oh wait why is Nash still listed on the roster?
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 8488 Location: The (real) short corner
Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:38 am Post subject:
What I'm wondering is did ANY X's and O's discussion go on during Jim and Mitch's three interviews with Byron? Did he just say he'd do the opposite of Mike D and that sold them??
Joined: 23 Aug 2004 Posts: 19482 Location: The X-Files
Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:41 am Post subject:
ringfinger wrote:
cKPayasoLoco wrote:
City_Dawg wrote:
Is this going to be the "Hindsight is 20/20" thread?
no 80% of this board has been saying how terrible our moves have been as they happened..
We were supposedly a playoff team 2 weeks ago. Not sure what has changed in that time.
The sentiment has changed dramatically since preseason started. Why?
Besides injuries which are a factor to some extent I think this Laker team is going to miss what has been lost as a result of Pau Gasol's departure and more so than many of the fans on this board thought would be the case I might add.... _________________ Rule = win titles
Good judgment comes from experience and a lot of that comes from bad judgment. - Will Rogers ...
Is this going to be the "Hindsight is 20/20" thread?
no 80% of this board has been saying how terrible our moves have been as they happened..
We were supposedly a playoff team 2 weeks ago. Not sure what has changed in that time.
The sentiment has changed dramatically since preseason started. Why?
Besides injuries which are a factor to some extent I think this Laker team is going to miss what has been lost as a result of Pau Gasol's departure and more so than many of the fans on this board thought would be the case I might add....
Well regardless of how many games anybody thought we would win, there should be no change after 4 preseason games. That would be ridiculous.
So I'm still unclear as to what event has transpired in the past 2 weeks to cause people here to bash on the offseason moves. You had all offseason to do that. Why now?
Joined: 23 Aug 2004 Posts: 19482 Location: The X-Files
Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:08 am Post subject:
ringfinger wrote:
LA_Lakers_Rule wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
cKPayasoLoco wrote:
City_Dawg wrote:
Is this going to be the "Hindsight is 20/20" thread?
no 80% of this board has been saying how terrible our moves have been as they happened..
We were supposedly a playoff team 2 weeks ago. Not sure what has changed in that time.
The sentiment has changed dramatically since preseason started. Why?
Besides injuries which are a factor to some extent I think this Laker team is going to miss what has been lost as a result of Pau Gasol's departure and more so than many of the fans on this board thought would be the case I might add....
Well regardless of how many games anybody thought we would win, there should be no change after 4 preseason games. That would be ridiculous.
So I'm still unclear as to what event has transpired in the past 2 weeks to cause people here to bash on the offseason moves. You had all offseason to do that. Why now?
It's an attempt at trying to explain what would appear to be a devastatingly bad start in the preseason. .... beyond that really no rhyme or reason for the change....
It has everything to do with the fact that the Lakers have now lost their last 3 games and more importantly for the most part by wide margins and as a result of this happen to currently have a devastatingly bad scoring differential of -22 which is as a matter of fact to a large extent merely a reflection of the brevity of the preseason so far which is unfortunately a fact ignored....
.... However, regardless of the small number of games so far... I mean when as it currently stands the Lakers on paper as far as putting up points versus giving up points is not only the horrendously worst in the NBA but amounts to nearly 3x's worse than the next worst team then all your going to hear on this board is how down right terrible everything that as been done for this team in the off-season happens to be regardless of earlier perceptions to the contrary....
.... It's one thing to reach conclusions based on what we might think we see on paper versus what we actually see on the court....
.... The reality regarding this team probably falls somewhere in-between the earlier euphoric conclusions drawn on the broad and the current "sky is falling" conclusions we hear all the time now.... But for now all we'll hear will ultimately amount to nothing more than expressions of frustration lashed out in all kinds of directions by fans many of which one could argue amount to nothing more than the "fair weather" types.... _________________ Rule = win titles
Good judgment comes from experience and a lot of that comes from bad judgment. - Will Rogers ...
Is this going to be the "Hindsight is 20/20" thread?
no 80% of this board has been saying how terrible our moves have been as they happened..
We were supposedly a playoff team 2 weeks ago. Not sure what has changed in that time.
The sentiment has changed dramatically since preseason started. Why?
Besides injuries which are a factor to some extent I think this Laker team is going to miss what has been lost as a result of Pau Gasol's departure and more so than many of the fans on this board thought would be the case I might add....
Pau at $7-8m vs Pau at $19m. Big difference. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144468 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:51 pm Post subject:
mugwump wrote:
Meh, without Jerry West feeding Mitch top talent, Kobe, Shaq, Pau -- Mitch is proving to achieve little. Without Phil Jackson as coach, Mitch is basically losing.
He got Dwight Howard, possibly the last star to choose to come here, and the guy ran away when the defensive kryptonite Mike D'Antoni was chosen unanimously with Mitch's vote thereby insuring Howard would leave after one year.
Mitch is proving to be the status quo -- great when everything is in place, and the worst Lakers records ever when he's not benefiting from Jerry West or Phil Jackson.
He tows the company line, which is proving to be disastrous now.
What did the Dodgers do when they lost in the first round? Why are the Lakers doing nothing to this FO when they just had the worst year in franchise history?
Nice make believe story on West feeding the Lakers Pau. Always best to base your opinion on wrong facts. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144468 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:54 pm Post subject:
fiendishoc wrote:
What I'm wondering is did ANY X's and O's discussion go on during Jim and Mitch's three interviews with Byron? Did he just say he'd do the opposite of Mike D and that sold them??
It is more like he and some other former Laker greats sold Jeannie. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
I will join him......mitch kupchek was good in his day when you could spend a lot of money but he is not good in this cap world. He doesn't get the small talent. The role players that also need to come along. My dream would be to get the portlands gm to come to the lakers. He has built two teams. The clippers and the Portland trailblazers. Mitch is a patchwork gm. He cant build his own team from scratch.
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35853 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:16 am Post subject:
clutchkobe wrote:
I will join him......mitch kupchek was good in his day when you could spend a lot of money but he is not good in this cap world. He doesn't get the small talent. The role players that also need to come along. My dream would be to get the portlands gm to come to the lakers. He has built two teams. The clippers and the Portland trailblazers. Mitch is a patchwork gm. He cant build his own team from scratch.
What I'm starting to think more and more of Mitch is that he's just a guy who has repeatedly gotten extremely lucky. Hell, even during the Gasol trade, he initially called to offer Odom in exchange for Mike Miller. I believe it was the Grizzlies' GM who offered Pau. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
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