OFFICIAL Media Bashing Kobe Bryant Discussion
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 32, 33, 34 ... 62, 63, 64  Next
 
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
fiendishoc
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 8488
Location: The (real) short corner

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:37 pm    Post subject:

cheesysapien wrote:
ExPatLkrFan wrote:
24 wrote:
I read the article from beginning to end, and what I saw was a ton of real, well thought out, factual analysis around a core of, "I'm going to stick it to Kobe", which ultimately takes a piece that could have been hard hitting if uncomfortable for Laker fans and turns it into an easy pinata. Haters will love it, and fans will have easy justification to dismiss it.

Specifically, talking about how Bryant flew in but inexplicably still missed Melo's pitch (omitting that it was because they moved it up at the last minute, at Melo's request), pretending Shaq was the whipping boy and Kobe the one of the two of them that didn't want to share with the other, conveniently forgetting the part about the CBA changes that make coming to LA less lucrative than before, acting like nothing specific (hint, Kobe's injured knee) happened in 2010-2011, leaving out the veto and the aftermath, acting as if Dwight really wanted to play in the pressure of LA (all evidence afterward to the contrary), these are all red flags of a guy turning a good piece into a hit piece. Not to mention acting like Sessions signing elsewhere didn't have anything to do with LA going and getting Nash.

LA got old in 2011. Kobe's knees were so shot he couldn't practice, PJ had only stayed out of loyalty to the team and was battling prostate cancer, and Pau apparently got a little satisfied and reverted in the playoffs to pre Laker Pau. So LA did the Laker thing. They pulled a miracle trade that would net them the next star to build around while still having Kobe and Bynum, and the ability to use Bynum to go after Howard. And even in the shambles of the post veto landscape, where they had to jettison an inconsolable Odom and deal with a fully regressed Pau while also having their coach depart (of his own will BTW), they still turned around in a single year and went and got Howard, along with Nash (the expensive and risky alternative to CP3). That blew up, for a lot of reasons, starting with a freak, apparently career ending injury to Nash, who had been extremely potent and durable for the last few years. And culminating with Dwight being Dwight. And make no mistake, he wanted no part of pressure and expectation, Kobe or no Kobe, and as has been demonstrated, wasn't exactly up to it. Oh, and Kobe blew his Achilles out.

Yeah, no star wants to come play in LA right now. They had to go through an absolute hell year losing Dwight and having no ability to replace him with anything, and struggling through the worst injury season I've ever seen. And no one knew or knows how much Kobe truly has left. LA has essentially rebooted their rebuild, having to reboot around the Dwight and Nash failure while not having the assets they cost. Last year's only value was the 7th pick in the draft. Everything else was a disaster. So the team, which had planned on cap room with a healthy Kobe and a scrappy team that had at least made some waves, has a question mark Kobe, a couple of promising rooks, and some cap room. Even Pau turned dopwn money to go play with a contender, and he certainly doesn't mind playing with Kobe.

Yeah, it's going to take a little while, and the team is going to have to develop their picks, make some judicious if not earthshattering transactions (starting with the Lin trade and buying the Clarkson pick), pick up some guys they can turn around or develop (like Davis), and keep rolling some cap room forward, using it only on pieces that will get them to the top, or placeholders until they improve enough to be a destination again. Or maybe they will hit the big piece in a trade. Who knows. But they will build smartly and deliberately, and seek the stars necessary to be a contender. That probably doesn't happen around Kobe. So be it. Some of that is on him and his style and age and what have you. Some of it is just on bad luck, timing, business, and the way of the world.

I'm going to enjoy Kobe, root for Randle and the youngsters to pan out, cheer the team on, and hope for good fortune and skill from Mitch.


QFT


Well said 24


Something like this needs to be heard from ESPN's ombudsman.

http://espn.go.com/blog/ombudsman

Not going to happen, I know.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Jim99187
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 03 Jan 2014
Posts: 22138

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:41 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
24 wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Jim99187 wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Rivershow wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
kobetimeeverytime wrote:
Mr. Abbott was on Max and Marcellus. hope they called him out on his bs


Marcellus didn't. Max did (kind of).

I thought there was an interesting point brought up (by Marcellus). And that was that a lot of the players brought in to play along Kobe, like the #2 guys, have become whipping boys. And that is a turn off for future free agents. I know we love messages here, but that "sends a message" to future free agents. I had to think back, I guess, it is kind of true.

Bynum, Odom (aka Odumb), Gasol (aka I like to call Lakers players stupid names), Howard (aka Coward).

The other part, it's not really Kobe's fault per se, but it's the idea that no matter what you do, it will never be enough. Maybe you work really hard. Like REALLY hard. Well, no one works harder than the Mamba. Stuff like that.

I actually prefer Abbott's writing style to how he sounds. He doesn't sound like an authority on basketball at all.


Good god how can you be so misinformed. Bynum is a cancer he can't even stay in the league. Odom crumbled both personally and professionally after leaving Kobe and the team. If mitch didn't try to trade him he would of still probably been on the team all these years. Pau left the team because he believed that the bulls had a better chance to win a championship. Pau still considers kobe his brother. And howard you might have a point but even that can be argued that howard didn't want to stay with an aging Kobe who couldn't get the team to a championship versus houston who had a young all star sg. It's like you are picking on one point and using it to reinforce your viewpoint. It's really biased and misinformed.

Kobe didn't treat players like pau, odom who deserved respect for their play badly.


I was just summarizing what Marcellus said. I don't share his viewpoint.


thats not summarizing. you were actually saying he had some interesting point


Huh? I was summarizing his point. Which I thought was interesting.


Come on Ring. You editorialized it with the interesting part. You implied, quite deliberately, that it had merit, not simply that "oh, gee, that's interesting, but whatever, could be wrong". Especially in light of your consistent take on Kobe, which, quite not coincidentally, mirrors the point you found interesting.


That's fair. I'm specifically referencing the outside perception players might have of Kobe. Personally, I prefer a guy who wants to put his hard hat on and get to work. That's one of the things I actually like about Kobe. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't preclude players from wanting to play with someone who appears to have that management style.

That's why I thought it was an interesting point.


ah change of heart within 30 mins? wow
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
KobeBryantCliffordBrown
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 6429

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:49 pm    Post subject:

LarryCoon wrote:
I guess this is becoming my annual post on this matter.

I was one of the voters. Let me clarify the criteria -- we were not asked to rank players relative to each other. We were asked to rate each player on a 0-10 scale, considering both quality and quantity of play.

In 2011-12 and 2012-13 I gave him a 10. In 2013-14 I gave him and 8, and as we all know, he came out #25. There were lots of complaints about that back then, too, including from Kobe. In retrospect, we voted him as a borderline all star. Considering both the quality and the quantity of play he produced last year, does anyone here still think we voted him too low? Where would you honestly, objectively (if you can be objective) rank him in retrospect?

This year I have him as an 8 again. I expect him to be better than last year, but I evaluated him too high last year. It's funny -- people complain about bias, but if anything, I was biased to vote him too high. He was coming off one of the worst injuries a basketball player can have, in his mid-30s, wasn't even running yet, and was certainly a long way away from appearing in a game. Still, I -- and we -- voted him a borderline all-star.

This year I expect the quality of his play to be much better than last year (duh), but I still have concerns over quantity. Given the quality of his teammates, either he will need to carry too much of the load (which will take an enormous toll on his body), or Scott will need to significantly curtail his minutes to prevent that from happening. Either way he can't (and won't) carry the sort of load he carried in years past.

So based on quality of play I'd put him at a 9 or 10, and given the pareto distribution I use, I would have ranked him with the 9's. But I don't see him providing the quantity of play we'd expect at that level; hence my final 8.

I didn't talk to him about it last night (I skipped the post-game), but I will at some point, I'm sure.



Dude, it's Kobe.
_________________
“It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
CBaller8
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 17 Feb 2002
Posts: 14876
Location: Reseda, CA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:05 pm    Post subject:

Kobe almost prevented the Nash deal. I don't see the problem with that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Reply with quote
saacman5033
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 786
Location: HNL

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:08 pm    Post subject:

Jim99187 wrote:
I just came home and read the article. what a load of crap. He starts with Ramon Sessions of all people?

Mike brown specifically told him to not even run let alone sprint up the court. He disappeared in playoffs.
got the LA over his head and decided to opt out. who in the right mind would have Sessions over nash?
pay sessions 5mil when we already steve blake? doesn't sound right.

next up:Bynum/odom/pau whipping boys?
because of kobe they got easy dunks and layups. Pau was what 0/16 before coming here and went to 3 straight championship finals.
Where is Odom now after he left kobe? ya right out of the league.
Where is bynum now after he left kobe? ya right out of the league.

what did Pau did in absence of kobe last yr? was he a leader getting paid 7th highest in the league? thats right way above lebron/durant.
Instead of being the leader he was constantly hear b!tching/cribing on how the coach is not using him right.

Nash: how many games did they play together? this is the same freaking guy who twisted his bag carrying bags last week. got injured 2nd game into the season and is stealing every penny of the 27million the lakers gave him
no comments here.

Paul George: Which rookie has rejected a max contract from his drafted team? nobody...what the heck?

Melo:
We all know melo is all about money. from his contract in Denver and from his days of forcing a trade 2months early so he can get a max contract from New York. he did so by making NYK trade most of their young pieces.

Lebron:
this guy is a MF. he joined prime wade/bosh and left them when he saw Irving/Love on the other side. coming home is BS reason he can give to cavs fans but i am NOT buying it. he wants to win at any cost even playing for a guy who ripped him apart for leaving.

Howard: lol come again, who?

look at the analyst at ESPN now. Amin video coordinator, homophobe Broussard and his sources & i don't even know else they have.

this article's sole reason was to create money and clicks. nothing else


Was the point of this essay to show you're just as big of a hater as Abbott, but spread the hate to many players? Otherwise, no clue as to the relevance here.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Truck Turner
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 28 Apr 2011
Posts: 3937

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:14 pm    Post subject:

rebirthoftheM wrote:
Unprofessional article i would say.. misrepresents history and only tells only one side of the story A good example of this is trying to claim that Shaq was a "whipping" boy and to bolster his argument.. he quotes the infamous Jim Gray interview by Kobe in 2004. But in reality, that was Kobe's first public response to Shaq after Shaq had been hounding and harassing him for years on end. We all remember Shaq saying he wouldn't play defense if he wasn't fed.. a direct shot at Kobe. They were both to blame for the eventual flame out but to suggest that Shaq was a whipping boy is disingenuous and indicative of the fact the author of this article is agenda driven.

Moving on.. he gives authority to the words of unnamed sources.. sources which clearly misrepresent the truth. For instance.. the "source" talking about why Dwight left LA.. that he had no problems with the pressure of being in LA. Rubbish and there is so much counter evidence out there to refute it. Or the whole Paul George hoopala. Or the Ramon Sessions story. All of this indicates that the journalist who wrote this article is not interested in the truth but merely to push an agenda and create hype for himself.

Some of what was said in the article is true.. by all accounts, it would seem that Kobe is a very difficult person to play with. And he seems to be an abrasive person. That can turn off a lot of people but, its those same qualities that have lifted Kobe to basketball's highest heights.

Side point: LG never changes lol.. the same Kobe haters pop out from their hiatus to bash Kobe, and then disappear when he plays well. Like clockwork..


It directly flies in the face of everything we know about Shaq and what Shaq himself has even admitted. Shaq was notorious both before and after playing with Kobe for publicly criticizing teammates and coaches.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Voices
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 07 Jul 2006
Posts: 8287
Location: Oxnard, Ca.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:15 pm    Post subject:

J.C. Smith wrote:
Voices wrote:
Kobe is just a player that makes a ton of deserved money, at first I thought Kobe was being paid too much, anymore, Mitch has not given Kobe a quality supporting cast.


In the past thee years The Lakers traded for Chris Paul (vetoed), Dwight Howard, and Steve Nash. Two of the very cream of the crop in the league, and another guy who was an All-Star. They unloaded Bynum and Odom right before their careers derailed, and managed to bring in Jamison (at the time coming off a good season), Meeks, Young and Davis for below market value. Grabbed a decent starting center for cheap in Boozer. They drafted a guy with the #7 pick who will likely have a better career than the majority of the guys taken ahead of him. Nabbed a promising young guy (Clarkson) for cash, and picked up two second rounders at #48 and #60 who look like they are going to stick around for the league for a while. Meanwhile they did that while preserving enough cap space to make a run at two max free agents next summer, despite Kobe's albatross contract.

Now I know you think the Lakers should be turning water into wine and all that jazz. But to make a statement that they haven't been able to build a team around him is ridiculous. Two years ago they were being picked by a lot of people to go all the way. They were a veto away three years ago from locking up two of the top ten players in the league to play alongside Kobe. The reality is the veto and the inability to appeal to Dwight set this franchise back in many ways. If Dwight stays, Pau is traded that summer when he still could have fetched something. Nash had missed a total of 29 games over his previous 7 seasons (all in his 30s). Yes, they knew they were getting an older player, but nobody expected him to break his leg to start the season and never recover. Nobody expected it to get to the deadline and nobody even offer a first round pick for Gasol. Or for the ridiculous number of injuries the team faced last season. The front office did their job. They surrounded Kobe with talent. It didn't work out and now the coffers are low as far as trade assets are concerned.


Two years ago the old Laker players broke down and some young players as well because they hired a coach that ran players into the ground.

Lakers management traded for a player that did not want to be a Laker, tell me that is good management?

I will not defend this management group they have made huge mistakes.
_________________
.....
.....
ALTHOUGH HE STANDS 6 FEET 2 INCHES, JIM BUSS ATTENDED JOCKEY SCHOOL WHEN HE WAS 20.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
GoldenThroat
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 37474

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:19 pm    Post subject:

KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:
LarryCoon wrote:
I guess this is becoming my annual post on this matter.

I was one of the voters. Let me clarify the criteria -- we were not asked to rank players relative to each other. We were asked to rate each player on a 0-10 scale, considering both quality and quantity of play.

In 2011-12 and 2012-13 I gave him a 10. In 2013-14 I gave him and 8, and as we all know, he came out #25. There were lots of complaints about that back then, too, including from Kobe. In retrospect, we voted him as a borderline all star. Considering both the quality and the quantity of play he produced last year, does anyone here still think we voted him too low? Where would you honestly, objectively (if you can be objective) rank him in retrospect?

This year I have him as an 8 again. I expect him to be better than last year, but I evaluated him too high last year. It's funny -- people complain about bias, but if anything, I was biased to vote him too high. He was coming off one of the worst injuries a basketball player can have, in his mid-30s, wasn't even running yet, and was certainly a long way away from appearing in a game. Still, I -- and we -- voted him a borderline all-star.

This year I expect the quality of his play to be much better than last year (duh), but I still have concerns over quantity. Given the quality of his teammates, either he will need to carry too much of the load (which will take an enormous toll on his body), or Scott will need to significantly curtail his minutes to prevent that from happening. Either way he can't (and won't) carry the sort of load he carried in years past.

So based on quality of play I'd put him at a 9 or 10, and given the pareto distribution I use, I would have ranked him with the 9's. But I don't see him providing the quantity of play we'd expect at that level; hence my final 8.

I didn't talk to him about it last night (I skipped the post-game), but I will at some point, I'm sure.



Dude, it's Kobe.


And even Kobe is susceptible to mortality, as unbelievable as that may seem.

As Larry said, in retrospect, Kobe was ranked too high last year.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Rivershow
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 09 Dec 2011
Posts: 6731

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:26 pm    Post subject:

saacman5033 wrote:
Jim99187 wrote:
I just came home and read the article. what a load of crap. He starts with Ramon Sessions of all people?

Mike brown specifically told him to not even run let alone sprint up the court. He disappeared in playoffs.
got the LA over his head and decided to opt out. who in the right mind would have Sessions over nash?
pay sessions 5mil when we already steve blake? doesn't sound right.

next up:Bynum/odom/pau whipping boys?
because of kobe they got easy dunks and layups. Pau was what 0/16 before coming here and went to 3 straight championship finals.
Where is Odom now after he left kobe? ya right out of the league.
Where is bynum now after he left kobe? ya right out of the league.

what did Pau did in absence of kobe last yr? was he a leader getting paid 7th highest in the league? thats right way above lebron/durant.
Instead of being the leader he was constantly hear b!tching/cribing on how the coach is not using him right.

Nash: how many games did they play together? this is the same freaking guy who twisted his bag carrying bags last week. got injured 2nd game into the season and is stealing every penny of the 27million the lakers gave him
no comments here.

Paul George: Which rookie has rejected a max contract from his drafted team? nobody...what the heck?

Melo:
We all know melo is all about money. from his contract in Denver and from his days of forcing a trade 2months early so he can get a max contract from New York. he did so by making NYK trade most of their young pieces.

Lebron:
this guy is a MF. he joined prime wade/bosh and left them when he saw Irving/Love on the other side. coming home is BS reason he can give to cavs fans but i am NOT buying it. he wants to win at any cost even playing for a guy who ripped him apart for leaving.

Howard: lol come again, who?

look at the analyst at ESPN now. Amin video coordinator, homophobe Broussard and his sources & i don't even know else they have.

this article's sole reason was to create money and clicks. nothing else


Was the point of this essay to show you're just as big of a hater as Abbott, but spread the hate to many players? Otherwise, no clue as to the relevance here.


I'm pretty sure the point of his post was to say that a lot of the evidence used in abbott's piece is circumstantial and has little to nothing to do with players not wanting to play with Kobe which Abott insinuates.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Luca Brasi
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 4207

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:32 pm    Post subject:

It bears repeating, the Laker didn't have cap space to even try an sign a superstar free agent till this year, sans Howard in 2012.

The Lakers are where we are today because of a confluence of events, none of which are related to Kobe.

First and foremost atop the list, the CBA signed in 2011. It completely hamstrung us. Not only was the goal of the CBA to keep big market teams (really just one actually) from poaching young superstar talent, with RFA. It was also very restrictive to teams over the cap, which made re-tooling our title teams from '09 and '10 almost impossible. Mitch repeatedly told reporters during interviews that the new CBA made it very difficult to improve the team. The main goal of these restrictions were to pretty suffocate long term dynasties from staying afloat. We bit our lip over the CBA and followed Jerry advice of waiting patiently for an opportunity present itself.

It did, but the trade we felt set us up for the short term and long term was vetoed when certain owners, who had championed the CBA, complained we were making a mockery of the just signed agreement. How exactly? I have no idea. We never did anything illegal or broke any rules. Once again, we didn't make a fuss, waited for an opportunity to seize upon.

We made two trades that any org would've made without blinking twice. But this time our efforts were felled by freak injuries. When we finally got up from underneath the cap, this summer we had two targets. Both we thought were extreme long shots, one more so than the other.

As far as Anthony goes, he and Kobe had conversation prior to the meeting. Kobe missing the meeting had nothing to do with why Melo ultimately chose the Knicks. If he leaves NY and fails to win a championship like he did leaving Denver, he'd get crucified. He's beloved in NY. As for why he didn't choose Chicago if winning is important, he's like most players, he wants to win but get paid, too. Why do you think James only signed a two year contract?

But you see, the reasons I put forth do not sell magazines; they do not make for good sports radio. The truth is always nuanced, and in today's media saturated-multi-platform-age, nuance will not get you the eye balls or the ears.

I told you this last year, there are plenty of good sports journalist. But often times to generate stories and clicks, they manufacture trade rumors that are completely bogus. Last year two were laker related, by the same network. The Cavs trade scenario was real but never close to materializing. Chris called Mitch and asked Gasol's. The only reason why situation was kept a float for so long was because the Cavs thought the Lakers would cave. Now some of you believed we should've just traded him for expiring contracts and a draft pick. But that's no our M.O. - not for players the caliber of Pau who was instrumental in securing titles for us. We traded Pau and Lamar for Chris Paul, traded Andrew for Howard. We're not going to give players jettison players like this for nothing.

Interestingly enough, the team the Lakers did end up as a trading partner with wasn't leaked by this network, but rather members of this site were clued in long before the deal was finalized who the team was. And it was done without chest pounding conjecture. You do it quietly, you drop crumbs, lead by the nose.

Lastly, I want to get something off my chest. I've been here since 2005. I only joined to calm laker fan's anger about the Shaq departure and to convince people that the lakers made the right choice and that Kobe and Lamar would one day be part of a core that put the lakers back on top. Of course this was met with derision. My back and forth with Wolfpacker were pretty intense. He's someone I've come to admire greatly, as a lot of posters and mods here.

But recently, the tone has changed it's gone from measured and pragmatic to down right cynical. Every move the Lakers make is somehow seen through the prism of cynicism, and it breaks my heart. Do we have obligations to our media partners? Absolutely. It's par for the course. But every move the Lakers make is not done to suffice the bottom line. We're actually trying to improve the team while maintaining the most important weapon we have, which is cap flexibility.

You know, Jerry was pragmatic, he was realistic, most children who grew up during the depression had to be. But one thing about Jerry, he was never cynical. With each CBA, the other owners made it more difficult for the Lakers to operate, and every time Jerry could've thrown up his hands and become cynical about the state of the franchise, but he never did. He always used to say, Don't worry, we'll find a way. We'll find a way.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
kikanga
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29152
Location: La La Land

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:36 pm    Post subject:

Poor Jim Buss. He's forced to accept that ratings dependent Time Warner money. He has to have one of the biggest fan draws in the league play for his team (which is the family's primary means of income). He can't build a winner because Kobe, a proven winner, keeps getting in his way. .

Since when did a winner's mentality become a bad thing?

Also, Abbott insulted all Laker fans in general. So Kobe has used his Mamba powers to fool laker fans into throwing Shaq, Bynum, Pau, and Dwight under the bus? . If Kobe has these mind trick powers why didn't he use them on the aforementioned players, to bend them to his will. Seems a lot simpler.
The notion that Kobe's a mafioso-like Laker's sabotager is comical.

I can imagine a funny sketch where Kobe bullies Jim Buss. He gives him purple nurples and indian burns. But that's not reality, it's entertainment
_________________
"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”


Last edited by kikanga on Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
laker4life
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 26 Nov 2001
Posts: 7317

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:41 pm    Post subject:

what is sad is that this idiot writes this article as we start this season with the likelihood that we will be pretty bad. (good job Jimbo Buss)

Therefore throughout this season Abbott will be able to point out to this article as a reference point.

Typical article as Kobe is in the twilight of his career.

We will just have get used to it.
.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
KobeBryantCliffordBrown
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 6429

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:43 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:
LarryCoon wrote:
I guess this is becoming my annual post on this matter.

I was one of the voters. Let me clarify the criteria -- we were not asked to rank players relative to each other. We were asked to rate each player on a 0-10 scale, considering both quality and quantity of play.

In 2011-12 and 2012-13 I gave him a 10. In 2013-14 I gave him and 8, and as we all know, he came out #25. There were lots of complaints about that back then, too, including from Kobe. In retrospect, we voted him as a borderline all star. Considering both the quality and the quantity of play he produced last year, does anyone here still think we voted him too low? Where would you honestly, objectively (if you can be objective) rank him in retrospect?

This year I have him as an 8 again. I expect him to be better than last year, but I evaluated him too high last year. It's funny -- people complain about bias, but if anything, I was biased to vote him too high. He was coming off one of the worst injuries a basketball player can have, in his mid-30s, wasn't even running yet, and was certainly a long way away from appearing in a game. Still, I -- and we -- voted him a borderline all-star.

This year I expect the quality of his play to be much better than last year (duh), but I still have concerns over quantity. Given the quality of his teammates, either he will need to carry too much of the load (which will take an enormous toll on his body), or Scott will need to significantly curtail his minutes to prevent that from happening. Either way he can't (and won't) carry the sort of load he carried in years past.

So based on quality of play I'd put him at a 9 or 10, and given the pareto distribution I use, I would have ranked him with the 9's. But I don't see him providing the quantity of play we'd expect at that level; hence my final 8.

I didn't talk to him about it last night (I skipped the post-game), but I will at some point, I'm sure.



Dude, it's Kobe.


And even Kobe is susceptible to mortality, as unbelievable as that may seem.

As Larry said, in retrospect, Kobe was ranked too high last year.



25/5/5 Book it. And Kobe's 6 game sample was hardly enough of a sample size to make a legitimate statement about where he would have been had he not broken his leg.
_________________
“It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays


Last edited by KobeBryantCliffordBrown on Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
dmills
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 18 Aug 2005
Posts: 3711

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:43 pm    Post subject:

BASKETBALL REASONS. That's the single biggest factor as to what is going on right now. That trade veto set this franchise back 7 years.
_________________
A key that has the ability to unlock many locks is a master key. But a lock that can be opened with any key is useless.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
67ShelbyGT
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 11 May 2008
Posts: 4048

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:45 pm    Post subject:

Treble Clef wrote:
Rivershow wrote:
Treble Clef wrote:
67ShelbyGT wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Rivershow wrote:
Who Takes The Blame wrote:
Hate to say this but it feels like nobody wants to play with Kobe.


The post right above yours shows that there are a whole bunch of stars in the league you can make that about and it would have the same shaky foundatiom that this abbott article had about kobe. Dirk, dwight, harden, durant etc. What stars did these players lure? See what's so stupid about that line of reasoning?


Are you really arguing that players are lining up to play with Kobe though?

I just find that hard to believe because where are they.

I actually believe most players don't want to play with him, I kind of get why, but I do think their logic is misplaced.


The scary part about today's media are not how shady or yellow the journalists have turned... it's that even in today's Information Age there are still people that buy it and oblivious to the blatant agenda. The sheets regugitate things like non wants to play with KOBE but everyone wants to play with LBj.

Ironically, this very week, LBJ's bffs basically said they hated playing with him. Even Wade said he hated last season. LeBron even admitted how no one wanted to play with him and he failed in his many FA recruits.

Let's examine now the great FAs that came to join espns golden boy. So even tho both came via trades, it's funny Love counts but Pau doesn't. Nash doesnt count but couple of scrub shooters like Miller and Jones do! Espn sweeps Butler, Ariza, PG, Shannon or anyone that praised Kobe under the rug to concentrate on fat or soft stars that can't handle LA.

It's like the other myth Espn tries to shove down people's throat that LBJ makes everybody better even the ballboy and Kobe stifles. Things Pau being 0-12 in playoffs before Kobe doesn't fit their agenda. Their MO is old and simple: don't let facts get in the way of a good story. Selective Amnesia! Scary part is all the simpletons that it rings true with.


You're doing the exact same thing you are criticizing the media for doing. Bosh and Wade hated playing with LeBron? Talk about an agenda.

You seem to be forgetting how nice ESPN and the media was when Kobe and the Lakers were winning. Meanwhile, they said LeBron just didn't have that "it" factor and wasnt a championship player. They mocked him and used Skip Bayless to cater to the "I hate LeBron" crowd.

ESPN hasn't changed, but now LeBron is the one on top and Kobe is the one struggling and unlikely to win championships. ESPN is something I have always only been able to stomach in smaller portions but they're what they always were. If you didnt think it was yellow journalism when the Lakers were treated like the toast of the town and ESPN had a guy on TV in a LeBron jersey holding a brick, why criticize it now?


There are actual quotes out there from wade that he is happier now then when he was playing with lebron. And bosh seems to have no emotional attachment towards lebron even after 4 finals trips and two rings. Espn won't cover that though or spin it negatively for lebron since he's their golden child.


Is the existence of these quotes proof that the media hates LeBron?

The quotes are very similar to the 2011 Lakers quotes to be honest. It is mentally draining to have the championship or failure expectations year after year. I'm sure Wade is happy to play loose again but I don't think he'd give up those championships he won.


You are missing one major point... it wasnt ESPN that was blasting LBJ. That was the rest of the media. Led by Yahoo Sports and Woj. It was following yet another choke job in the playoffs. That to me deserving. If we lost that Gm7 Kobe shouldve been blasted too. ESPN actually defended LBJ through and through. Through the decision, choke job after choke job.

ESPN invested in him since Junior HS they are gonna shove him down your throat whether you like it or not. While the rest of the media covered Bosh and Wade's not so kind words, funny how ESPN left it out. Might explain why some here missed it.
_________________
Alltime lineup: Magic | Kobe | MJ | Hakeem | KAJ
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Jim99187
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 03 Jan 2014
Posts: 22138

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:46 pm    Post subject:

saacman5033 wrote:
Jim99187 wrote:
I just came home and read the article. what a load of crap. He starts with Ramon Sessions of all people?

Mike brown specifically told him to not even run let alone sprint up the court. He disappeared in playoffs.
got the LA over his head and decided to opt out. who in the right mind would have Sessions over nash?
pay sessions 5mil when we already steve blake? doesn't sound right.

next up:Bynum/odom/pau whipping boys?
because of kobe they got easy dunks and layups. Pau was what 0/16 before coming here and went to 3 straight championship finals.
Where is Odom now after he left kobe? ya right out of the league.
Where is bynum now after he left kobe? ya right out of the league.

what did Pau did in absence of kobe last yr? was he a leader getting paid 7th highest in the league? thats right way above lebron/durant.
Instead of being the leader he was constantly hear b!tching/cribing on how the coach is not using him right.

Nash: how many games did they play together? this is the same freaking guy who twisted his bag carrying bags last week. got injured 2nd game into the season and is stealing every penny of the 27million the lakers gave him
no comments here.

Paul George: Which rookie has rejected a max contract from his drafted team? nobody...what the heck?

Melo:
We all know melo is all about money. from his contract in Denver and from his days of forcing a trade 2months early so he can get a max contract from New York. he did so by making NYK trade most of their young pieces.

Lebron:
this guy is a MF. he joined prime wade/bosh and left them when he saw Irving/Love on the other side. coming home is BS reason he can give to cavs fans but i am NOT buying it. he wants to win at any cost even playing for a guy who ripped him apart for leaving.

Howard: lol come again, who?

look at the analyst at ESPN now. Amin video coordinator, homophobe Broussard and his sources & i don't even know else they have.

this article's sole reason was to create money and clicks. nothing else


Was the point of this essay to show you're just as big of a hater as Abbott, but spread the hate to many players? Otherwise, no clue as to the relevance here.


my job here is to not educate people or to dicepher my post so a baby can understand.

if you don't, just ignore it
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Jim99187
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 03 Jan 2014
Posts: 22138

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:48 pm    Post subject:

Rivershow wrote:
saacman5033 wrote:
Jim99187 wrote:
I just came home and read the article. what a load of crap. He starts with Ramon Sessions of all people?

Mike brown specifically told him to not even run let alone sprint up the court. He disappeared in playoffs.
got the LA over his head and decided to opt out. who in the right mind would have Sessions over nash?
pay sessions 5mil when we already steve blake? doesn't sound right.

next up:Bynum/odom/pau whipping boys?
because of kobe they got easy dunks and layups. Pau was what 0/16 before coming here and went to 3 straight championship finals.
Where is Odom now after he left kobe? ya right out of the league.
Where is bynum now after he left kobe? ya right out of the league.

what did Pau did in absence of kobe last yr? was he a leader getting paid 7th highest in the league? thats right way above lebron/durant.
Instead of being the leader he was constantly hear b!tching/cribing on how the coach is not using him right.

Nash: how many games did they play together? this is the same freaking guy who twisted his bag carrying bags last week. got injured 2nd game into the season and is stealing every penny of the 27million the lakers gave him
no comments here.

Paul George: Which rookie has rejected a max contract from his drafted team? nobody...what the heck?

Melo:
We all know melo is all about money. from his contract in Denver and from his days of forcing a trade 2months early so he can get a max contract from New York. he did so by making NYK trade most of their young pieces.

Lebron:
this guy is a MF. he joined prime wade/bosh and left them when he saw Irving/Love on the other side. coming home is BS reason he can give to cavs fans but i am NOT buying it. he wants to win at any cost even playing for a guy who ripped him apart for leaving.

Howard: lol come again, who?

look at the analyst at ESPN now. Amin video coordinator, homophobe Broussard and his sources & i don't even know else they have.

this article's sole reason was to create money and clicks. nothing else


Was the point of this essay to show you're just as big of a hater as Abbott, but spread the hate to many players? Otherwise, no clue as to the relevance here.


I'm pretty sure the point of his post was to say that a lot of the evidence used in abbott's piece is circumstantial and has little to nothing to do with players not wanting to play with Kobe which Abott insinuates.


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
DJ Slik
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 11 Jul 2014
Posts: 432

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:49 pm    Post subject:

CBaller8 wrote:
Kobe almost prevented the Nash deal. I don't see the problem with that.

...except that it DIDN'T HAPPEN!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Omar Little
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90299
Location: Formerly Known As 24

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:49 pm    Post subject:

Voices wrote:
J.C. Smith wrote:
Voices wrote:
Kobe is just a player that makes a ton of deserved money, at first I thought Kobe was being paid too much, anymore, Mitch has not given Kobe a quality supporting cast.


In the past thee years The Lakers traded for Chris Paul (vetoed), Dwight Howard, and Steve Nash. Two of the very cream of the crop in the league, and another guy who was an All-Star. They unloaded Bynum and Odom right before their careers derailed, and managed to bring in Jamison (at the time coming off a good season), Meeks, Young and Davis for below market value. Grabbed a decent starting center for cheap in Boozer. They drafted a guy with the #7 pick who will likely have a better career than the majority of the guys taken ahead of him. Nabbed a promising young guy (Clarkson) for cash, and picked up two second rounders at #48 and #60 who look like they are going to stick around for the league for a while. Meanwhile they did that while preserving enough cap space to make a run at two max free agents next summer, despite Kobe's albatross contract.

Now I know you think the Lakers should be turning water into wine and all that jazz. But to make a statement that they haven't been able to build a team around him is ridiculous. Two years ago they were being picked by a lot of people to go all the way. They were a veto away three years ago from locking up two of the top ten players in the league to play alongside Kobe. The reality is the veto and the inability to appeal to Dwight set this franchise back in many ways. If Dwight stays, Pau is traded that summer when he still could have fetched something. Nash had missed a total of 29 games over his previous 7 seasons (all in his 30s). Yes, they knew they were getting an older player, but nobody expected him to break his leg to start the season and never recover. Nobody expected it to get to the deadline and nobody even offer a first round pick for Gasol. Or for the ridiculous number of injuries the team faced last season. The front office did their job. They surrounded Kobe with talent. It didn't work out and now the coffers are low as far as trade assets are concerned.


Two years ago the old Laker players broke down and some young players as well because they hired a coach that ran players into the ground.

Lakers management traded for a player that did not want to be a Laker, tell me that is good management?

I will not defend this management group they have made huge mistakes.


Just out of curiosity, im wondering how mda ran his players into the ground in a general sense. we can argue about kobe's late run of obscene minutes, but who else? Nash, who got hurt before he got there? The other guys, playing at or below their normal minutes?
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Cancun Van Exel
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 15 Oct 2014
Posts: 203

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:50 pm    Post subject:

dmills wrote:
BASKETBALL REASONS. That's the single biggest factor as to what is going on right now. That trade veto set this franchise back 7 years.


I'll agree it was unfair and a major detriment but a good management group could have possibly recovered from it by letting their aging superstar walk, not trading for Nash and attempting to build around Dwight, who CP3 may have considered coming to play with anyway as a free agent in 2013. Then you keep Gasol for a Chicago style discount and boom you at least have a chance.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Jim99187
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 03 Jan 2014
Posts: 22138

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:58 pm    Post subject:

Cancun Van Exel wrote:
dmills wrote:
BASKETBALL REASONS. That's the single biggest factor as to what is going on right now. That trade veto set this franchise back 7 years.


I'll agree it was unfair and a major detriment but a good management group could have possibly recovered from it by letting their aging superstar walk, not trading for Nash and attempting to build around Dwight, who CP3 may have considered coming to play with anyway as a free agent in 2013. Then you keep Gasol for a Chicago style discount and boom you at least have a chance.


wow wow wow...hold on their tiger

to sign CP3, Lakers would have to amnesty kobe, Trade Gasol and trade nash.

how the hell would you keep gasol after trading him? all this for a guy who hasn't won sh!t? and is a clown?

get ur facts straight before posting
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Jeffs
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 25274

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:03 pm    Post subject:

Luca Brasi wrote:
It bears repeating, the Laker didn't have cap space to even try an sign a superstar free agent till this year, sans Howard in 2012.

The Lakers are where we are today because of a confluence of events, none of which are related to Kobe.

First and foremost atop the list, the CBA signed in 2011. It completely hamstrung us. Not only was the goal of the CBA to keep big market teams (really just one actually) from poaching young superstar talent, with RFA. It was also very restrictive to teams over the cap, which made re-tooling our title teams from '09 and '10 almost impossible. Mitch repeatedly told reporters during interviews that the new CBA made it very difficult to improve the team. The main goal of these restrictions were to pretty suffocate long term dynasties from staying afloat. We bit our lip over the CBA and followed Jerry advice of waiting patiently for an opportunity present itself.

It did, but the trade we felt set us up for the short term and long term was vetoed when certain owners, who had championed the CBA, complained we were making a mockery of the just signed agreement. How exactly? I have no idea. We never did anything illegal or broke any rules. Once again, we didn't make a fuss, waited for an opportunity to seize upon.

We made two trades that any org would've made without blinking twice. But this time our efforts were felled by freak injuries. When we finally got up from underneath the cap, this summer we had two targets. Both we thought were extreme long shots, one more so than the other.

As far as Anthony goes, he and Kobe had conversation prior to the meeting. Kobe missing the meeting had nothing to do with why Melo ultimately chose the Knicks. If he leaves NY and fails to win a championship like he did leaving Denver, he'd get crucified. He's beloved in NY. As for why he didn't choose Chicago if winning is important, he's like most players, he wants to win but get paid, too. Why do you think James only signed a two year contract?

But you see, the reasons I put forth do not sell magazines; they do not make for good sports radio. The truth is always nuanced, and in today's media saturated-multi-platform-age, nuance will not get you the eye balls or the ears.

I told you this last year, there are plenty of good sports journalist. But often times to generate stories and clicks, they manufacture trade rumors that are completely bogus. Last year two were laker related, by the same network. The Cavs trade scenario was real but never close to materializing. Chris called Mitch and asked Gasol's. The only reason why situation was kept a float for so long was because the Cavs thought the Lakers would cave. Now some of you believed we should've just traded him for expiring contracts and a draft pick. But that's no our M.O. - not for players the caliber of Pau who was instrumental in securing titles for us. We traded Pau and Lamar for Chris Paul, traded Andrew for Howard. We're not going to give players jettison players like this for nothing.

Interestingly enough, the team the Lakers did end up as a trading partner with wasn't leaked by this network, but rather members of this site were clued in long before the deal was finalized who the team was. And it was done without chest pounding conjecture. You do it quietly, you drop crumbs, lead by the nose.

Lastly, I want to get something off my chest. I've been here since 2005. I only joined to calm laker fan's anger about the Shaq departure and to convince people that the lakers made the right choice and that Kobe and Lamar would one day be part of a core that put the lakers back on top. Of course this was met with derision. My back and forth with Wolfpacker were pretty intense. He's someone I've come to admire greatly, as a lot of posters and mods here.

But recently, the tone has changed it's gone from measured and pragmatic to down right cynical. Every move the Lakers make is somehow seen through the prism of cynicism, and it breaks my heart. Do we have obligations to our media partners? Absolutely. It's par for the course. But every move the Lakers make is not done to suffice the bottom line. We're actually trying to improve the team while maintaining the most important weapon we have, which is cap flexibility.

You know, Jerry was pragmatic, he was realistic, most children who grew up during the depression had to be. But one thing about Jerry, he was never cynical. With each CBA, the other owners made it more difficult for the Lakers to operate, and every time Jerry could've thrown up his hands and become cynical about the state of the franchise, but he never did. He always used to say, Don't worry, we'll find a way. We'll find a way.


Thank you, Luca. Great post. I can only speak for myself, but I have always enjoyed your takes and the small glimpses into the FO's thinking process that you have given us over the years. I absolutely agree with your take on the change in demeanor on LG over the past two years, and that's a big part of why I have been so much less active than I used to be. It's downright depressing to be bombarded with so much cynicism and negativity every time I visit.
_________________
Jeffs

I feel like I just watched someone TRULY give 100%. Not the BS I'm-gonna-give-a-110%-just-like-everyone-else-says platitudes, but someone that went until he just....broke. - GT
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Treble Clef
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 23745

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:04 pm    Post subject:

KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:
LarryCoon wrote:
I guess this is becoming my annual post on this matter.

I was one of the voters. Let me clarify the criteria -- we were not asked to rank players relative to each other. We were asked to rate each player on a 0-10 scale, considering both quality and quantity of play.

In 2011-12 and 2012-13 I gave him a 10. In 2013-14 I gave him and 8, and as we all know, he came out #25. There were lots of complaints about that back then, too, including from Kobe. In retrospect, we voted him as a borderline all star. Considering both the quality and the quantity of play he produced last year, does anyone here still think we voted him too low? Where would you honestly, objectively (if you can be objective) rank him in retrospect?

This year I have him as an 8 again. I expect him to be better than last year, but I evaluated him too high last year. It's funny -- people complain about bias, but if anything, I was biased to vote him too high. He was coming off one of the worst injuries a basketball player can have, in his mid-30s, wasn't even running yet, and was certainly a long way away from appearing in a game. Still, I -- and we -- voted him a borderline all-star.

This year I expect the quality of his play to be much better than last year (duh), but I still have concerns over quantity. Given the quality of his teammates, either he will need to carry too much of the load (which will take an enormous toll on his body), or Scott will need to significantly curtail his minutes to prevent that from happening. Either way he can't (and won't) carry the sort of load he carried in years past.

So based on quality of play I'd put him at a 9 or 10, and given the pareto distribution I use, I would have ranked him with the 9's. But I don't see him providing the quantity of play we'd expect at that level; hence my final 8.

I didn't talk to him about it last night (I skipped the post-game), but I will at some point, I'm sure.



Dude, it's Kobe.


And even Kobe is susceptible to mortality, as unbelievable as that may seem.

As Larry said, in retrospect, Kobe was ranked too high last year.



25/5/5 Book it. And Kobe's 6 game sample was hardly enough of a sample size to make a legitimate statement about where he would have been had he not broken his leg.


from what I have read, every single person that has spoken on Kobes rating has said it was the injury concerns that caused them to rank him lower than he had been ranked in the past.

You can't rank him based on his full health if he's not fully healthy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Omar Little
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90299
Location: Formerly Known As 24

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:09 pm    Post subject:

Jeffs wrote:
Luca Brasi wrote:
It bears repeating, the Laker didn't have cap space to even try an sign a superstar free agent till this year, sans Howard in 2012.

The Lakers are where we are today because of a confluence of events, none of which are related to Kobe.

First and foremost atop the list, the CBA signed in 2011. It completely hamstrung us. Not only was the goal of the CBA to keep big market teams (really just one actually) from poaching young superstar talent, with RFA. It was also very restrictive to teams over the cap, which made re-tooling our title teams from '09 and '10 almost impossible. Mitch repeatedly told reporters during interviews that the new CBA made it very difficult to improve the team. The main goal of these restrictions were to pretty suffocate long term dynasties from staying afloat. We bit our lip over the CBA and followed Jerry advice of waiting patiently for an opportunity present itself.

It did, but the trade we felt set us up for the short term and long term was vetoed when certain owners, who had championed the CBA, complained we were making a mockery of the just signed agreement. How exactly? I have no idea. We never did anything illegal or broke any rules. Once again, we didn't make a fuss, waited for an opportunity to seize upon.

We made two trades that any org would've made without blinking twice. But this time our efforts were felled by freak injuries. When we finally got up from underneath the cap, this summer we had two targets. Both we thought were extreme long shots, one more so than the other.

As far as Anthony goes, he and Kobe had conversation prior to the meeting. Kobe missing the meeting had nothing to do with why Melo ultimately chose the Knicks. If he leaves NY and fails to win a championship like he did leaving Denver, he'd get crucified. He's beloved in NY. As for why he didn't choose Chicago if winning is important, he's like most players, he wants to win but get paid, too. Why do you think James only signed a two year contract?

But you see, the reasons I put forth do not sell magazines; they do not make for good sports radio. The truth is always nuanced, and in today's media saturated-multi-platform-age, nuance will not get you the eye balls or the ears.

I told you this last year, there are plenty of good sports journalist. But often times to generate stories and clicks, they manufacture trade rumors that are completely bogus. Last year two were laker related, by the same network. The Cavs trade scenario was real but never close to materializing. Chris called Mitch and asked Gasol's. The only reason why situation was kept a float for so long was because the Cavs thought the Lakers would cave. Now some of you believed we should've just traded him for expiring contracts and a draft pick. But that's no our M.O. - not for players the caliber of Pau who was instrumental in securing titles for us. We traded Pau and Lamar for Chris Paul, traded Andrew for Howard. We're not going to give players jettison players like this for nothing.

Interestingly enough, the team the Lakers did end up as a trading partner with wasn't leaked by this network, but rather members of this site were clued in long before the deal was finalized who the team was. And it was done without chest pounding conjecture. You do it quietly, you drop crumbs, lead by the nose.

Lastly, I want to get something off my chest. I've been here since 2005. I only joined to calm laker fan's anger about the Shaq departure and to convince people that the lakers made the right choice and that Kobe and Lamar would one day be part of a core that put the lakers back on top. Of course this was met with derision. My back and forth with Wolfpacker were pretty intense. He's someone I've come to admire greatly, as a lot of posters and mods here.

But recently, the tone has changed it's gone from measured and pragmatic to down right cynical. Every move the Lakers make is somehow seen through the prism of cynicism, and it breaks my heart. Do we have obligations to our media partners? Absolutely. It's par for the course. But every move the Lakers make is not done to suffice the bottom line. We're actually trying to improve the team while maintaining the most important weapon we have, which is cap flexibility.

You know, Jerry was pragmatic, he was realistic, most children who grew up during the depression had to be. But one thing about Jerry, he was never cynical. With each CBA, the other owners made it more difficult for the Lakers to operate, and every time Jerry could've thrown up his hands and become cynical about the state of the franchise, but he never did. He always used to say, Don't worry, we'll find a way. We'll find a way.


Thank you, Luca. Great post. I can only speak for myself, but I have always enjoyed your takes and the small glimpses into the FO's thinking process that you have given us over the years. I absolutely agree with your take on the change in demeanor on LG over the past two years, and that's a big part of why I have been so much less active than I used to be. It's downright depressing to be bombarded with so much cynicism and negativity every time I visit.


Indeed. I just can't get to the point where my traditional entertainment becomes like a horrible ex wife to me. Heck, i watched the blowout loss to utah after it happened just to see a bit of the new guys, and i didn't lose my lunch or have a coronary. This is supposed to be fun. And Luca is good at reminding about that. Kudos friend.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Treble Clef
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 23745

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:10 pm    Post subject:

67ShelbyGT wrote:
Treble Clef wrote:
Rivershow wrote:
Treble Clef wrote:
67ShelbyGT wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Rivershow wrote:
Who Takes The Blame wrote:
Hate to say this but it feels like nobody wants to play with Kobe.


The post right above yours shows that there are a whole bunch of stars in the league you can make that about and it would have the same shaky foundatiom that this abbott article had about kobe. Dirk, dwight, harden, durant etc. What stars did these players lure? See what's so stupid about that line of reasoning?


Are you really arguing that players are lining up to play with Kobe though?

I just find that hard to believe because where are they.

I actually believe most players don't want to play with him, I kind of get why, but I do think their logic is misplaced.


The scary part about today's media are not how shady or yellow the journalists have turned... it's that even in today's Information Age there are still people that buy it and oblivious to the blatant agenda. The sheets regugitate things like non wants to play with KOBE but everyone wants to play with LBj.

Ironically, this very week, LBJ's bffs basically said they hated playing with him. Even Wade said he hated last season. LeBron even admitted how no one wanted to play with him and he failed in his many FA recruits.

Let's examine now the great FAs that came to join espns golden boy. So even tho both came via trades, it's funny Love counts but Pau doesn't. Nash doesnt count but couple of scrub shooters like Miller and Jones do! Espn sweeps Butler, Ariza, PG, Shannon or anyone that praised Kobe under the rug to concentrate on fat or soft stars that can't handle LA.

It's like the other myth Espn tries to shove down people's throat that LBJ makes everybody better even the ballboy and Kobe stifles. Things Pau being 0-12 in playoffs before Kobe doesn't fit their agenda. Their MO is old and simple: don't let facts get in the way of a good story. Selective Amnesia! Scary part is all the simpletons that it rings true with.


You're doing the exact same thing you are criticizing the media for doing. Bosh and Wade hated playing with LeBron? Talk about an agenda.

You seem to be forgetting how nice ESPN and the media was when Kobe and the Lakers were winning. Meanwhile, they said LeBron just didn't have that "it" factor and wasnt a championship player. They mocked him and used Skip Bayless to cater to the "I hate LeBron" crowd.

ESPN hasn't changed, but now LeBron is the one on top and Kobe is the one struggling and unlikely to win championships. ESPN is something I have always only been able to stomach in smaller portions but they're what they always were. If you didnt think it was yellow journalism when the Lakers were treated like the toast of the town and ESPN had a guy on TV in a LeBron jersey holding a brick, why criticize it now?


There are actual quotes out there from wade that he is happier now then when he was playing with lebron. And bosh seems to have no emotional attachment towards lebron even after 4 finals trips and two rings. Espn won't cover that though or spin it negatively for lebron since he's their golden child.


Is the existence of these quotes proof that the media hates LeBron?

The quotes are very similar to the 2011 Lakers quotes to be honest. It is mentally draining to have the championship or failure expectations year after year. I'm sure Wade is happy to play loose again but I don't think he'd give up those championships he won.


You are missing one major point... it wasnt ESPN that was blasting LBJ. That was the rest of the media. Led by Yahoo Sports and Woj. It was following yet another choke job in the playoffs. That to me deserving. If we lost that Gm7 Kobe shouldve been blasted too. ESPN actually defended LBJ through and through. Through the decision, choke job after choke job.

ESPN invested in him since Junior HS they are gonna shove him down your throat whether you like it or not. While the rest of the media covered Bosh and Wade's not so kind words, funny how ESPN left it out. Might explain why some here missed it.


Go to google and type in "ESPN Wade Bosh fun". I just did and found a bunch of articles that cover all of the quotes in question.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 32, 33, 34 ... 62, 63, 64  Next
Page 33 of 64
Jump to:  

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum






Graphics by uberzev
© 1995-2018 LakersGround.net. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy. Terms of Use.
LakersGround is an unofficial news source serving the fan community since 1995.
We are in no way associated with the Los Angeles Lakers or the National Basketball Association.


Powered by phpBB