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CelticBuster
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 Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| Larry Brown runs the flex. Post dominated. Inside out. It's a preference to how you run a team. You dont run into a zone every night. You certainly can run An inside out game at the college level. Dont quite know what you're saying. You're speaking to vaguely. Are you specifically asking as to why the zone was put in place in the NBA? It was to stop shaq. Minny was the first team to consistently implement it. Why the 5 second back down rule was put in place in 99? That was guys like Barkley eating up most of the24 backing down to the block and picking apart teams while 4 guys stood around. Again, are you saying a big won't dominate today's game? |
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CelticBuster
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| Your pop quiz was the most well known rule change in the past 25 years to go along with hand checking. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:12 am Post subject: |
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We've discussed it all over the board, but here is a quick synopsis:
Under the old rules, you had to double a guy with the ball, cover a single player without it (no matter where he went), or be in transit between the two. This allowed a team to spread the floor (you could send Dennis rodman to the weak side, for example, and his guy couldn't sag to double the post) and the post player to establish position against a single defender, and receive the ball in isolation. He could then either go quickly before the double, or see the rotation coming from a long distance and rotate the ball to the open man. This forced secondary rotations (because the defender couldn't sprint to the post, turn around, and then sprint back in time. Cuts and picks opening them up on the weak side were common because defenders couldn't sag to the in between areas off of them. The post feeder didn't even need to be a shooter because his defender couldn't sag back into the post player's lap when he had the ball, to deny the entry. The post defender couldn't front the post to disrupt the pass without giving up the pass over the top, because again, the defense couldn't station a guy just outside (or actually in for three seconds at a time) the lane on the weak side, where he could deny the rim and still be in position to rotate to his man.
All of that changed with zone rules. Not so much for teams to play traditional zone, but they can hedge off the weak side at will, leaving them a faster double and a quicker recovery. Virtually every team zones the weak side against a post entry, bringing extra defenders into the lane area. It is why the high screen and roll is favored (ball handler can pass to both sides, this no weak side to sag from, and why most positions are now manned by shooters (to penalize a slow recovery from a hedge or double). Evolution due to rules.
BTW, the flex is a motion offense that uses spacing and movement as opposed to traditional post play, and features posting on the move and farther out to facilitate ball movement, not a slow it down and slam it into the post.
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CelticBuster
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:17 am Post subject: |
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Are you saying the rules will prevent a big man from dominating or playing inside out?
West coast offense involved the running back and it was still short yardage play just done differently. There was balance
Jacking up 35 3s with a lack of interior presence when matched against a quality big with a quality team will lose over a 7 game span. If chi town were healthy they'd have a good shot to win the title. Memphis plays gs well. It's bc of their bigs. This is shortcut basketball.corner 3s. Stretch 4s. 35 3s a game. Vulnerable. There's no in between with this offense. Layup or 3. That can be taken advantage of easily.
There's a reason SAS never went back to back. Bounced in 1St rd. Why GS and atl could be early exits. |
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CelticBuster
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | We've discussed it all over the board, but here is a quick synopsis:
Under the old rules, you had to double a guy with the ball, cover a single player without it (no matter where he went), or be in transit between the two. This allowed a team to spread the floor (you could send Dennis rodman to the weak side, for example, and his guy couldn't sag to double the post) and the post player to establish position against a single defender, and receive the ball in isolation. He could then either go quickly before the double, or see the rotation coming from a long distance and rotate the ball to the open man. This forced secondary rotations (because the defender couldn't sprint to the post, turn around, and then sprint back in time. Cuts and picks opening them up on the weak side were common because defenders couldn't sag to the in between areas off of them. The post feeder didn't even need to be a shooter because his defender couldn't sag back into the post player's lap when he had the ball, to deny the entry. The post defender couldn't front the post to disrupt the pass without giving up the pass over the top, because again, the defense couldn't station a guy just outside (or actually in for three seconds at a time) the lane on the weak side, where he could deny the rim and still be in position to rotate to his man.
All of that changed with zone rules. Not so much for teams to play traditional zone, but they can hedge off the weak side at will, leaving them a faster double and a quicker recovery. Virtually every team zones the weak side against a post entry, bringing extra defenders into the lane area. It is why the high screen and roll is favored (ball handler can pass to both sides, this no weak side to sag from, and why most positions are now manned by shooters (to penalize a slow recovery from a hedge or double). Evolution due to rules.
BTW, the flex is a motion offense that uses spacing and movement as opposed to traditional post play, and features posting on the move and farther out to facilitate ball movement, not a slow it down and slam it into the post. |
Dude, I know the rules ins and out. I just cited them. The flex is centered around the post play. Watch smu play today at 12 and Larry Brown's interpretation of it. Smu has 4 bigs they go inside to first. It's been the same for the past 35 years. |
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CelticBuster
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | We've discussed it all over the board, but here is a quick synopsis:
Under the old rules, you had to double a guy with the ball, cover a single player without it (no matter where he went), or be in transit between the two. This allowed a team to spread the floor (you could send Dennis rodman to the weak side, for example, and his guy couldn't sag to double the post) and the post player to establish position against a single defender, and receive the ball in isolation. He could then either go quickly before the double, or see the rotation coming from a long distance and rotate the ball to the open man. This forced secondary rotations (because the defender couldn't sprint to the post, turn around, and then sprint back in time. Cuts and picks opening them up on the weak side were common because defenders couldn't sag to the in between areas off of them. The post feeder didn't even need to be a shooter because his defender couldn't sag back into the post player's lap when he had the ball, to deny the entry. The post defender couldn't front the post to disrupt the pass without giving up the pass over the top, because again, the defense couldn't station a guy just outside (or actually in for three seconds at a time) the lane on the weak side, where he could deny the rim and still be in position to rotate to his man.
All of that changed with zone rules. Not so much for teams to play traditional zone, but they can hedge off the weak side at will, leaving them a faster double and a quicker recovery. Virtually every team zones the weak side against a post entry, bringing extra defenders into the lane area. It is why the high screen and roll is favored (ball handler can pass to both sides, this no weak side to sag from, and why most positions are now manned by shooters (to penalize a slow recovery from a hedge or double). Evolution due to rules.
BTW, the flex is a motion offense that uses spacing and movement as opposed to traditional post play, and features posting on the move and farther out to facilitate ball movement, not a slow it down and slam it into the post. |
The stuff about the zone is common knowledge. why are writing this? |
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CelticBuster
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | We've discussed it all over the board, but here is a quick synopsis:
Under the old rules, you had to double a guy with the ball, cover a single player without it (no matter where he went), or be in transit between the two. This allowed a team to spread the floor (you could send Dennis rodman to the weak side, for example, and his guy couldn't sag to double the post) and the post player to establish position against a single defender, and receive the ball in isolation. He could then either go quickly before the double, or see the rotation coming from a long distance and rotate the ball to the open man. This forced secondary rotations (because the defender couldn't sprint to the post, turn around, and then sprint back in time. Cuts and picks opening them up on the weak side were common because defenders couldn't sag to the in between areas off of them. The post feeder didn't even need to be a shooter because his defender couldn't sag back into the post player's lap when he had the ball, to deny the entry. The post defender couldn't front the post to disrupt the pass without giving up the pass over the top, because again, the defense couldn't station a guy just outside (or actually in for three seconds at a time) the lane on the weak side, where he could deny the rim and still be in position to rotate to his man.
All of that changed with zone rules. Not so much for teams to play traditional zone, but they can hedge off the weak side at will, leaving them a faster double and a quicker recovery. Virtually every team zones the weak side against a post entry, bringing extra defenders into the lane area. It is why the high screen and roll is favored (ball handler can pass to both sides, this no weak side to sag from, and why most positions are now manned by shooters (to penalize a slow recovery from a hedge or double). Evolution due to rules.
BTW, the flex is a motion offense that uses spacing and movement as opposed to traditional post play, and features posting on the move and farther out to facilitate ball movement, not a slow it down and slam it into the post. |
The stuff about the zone is common knowledge. NBA Basketball 101.why are you writing this?
Last edited by CelticBuster on Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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CelticBuster
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:05 am Post subject: |
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The zone doesn't even stop the big bc of defense 3 second. Even without the zone doesnt stop the big. Theyre just aren't that many bugs besides the gasols, cousins.
Again are you saying that today's rules won't allow a big man to dominate? |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| CelticBuster wrote: | | 24 wrote: | We've discussed it all over the board, but here is a quick synopsis:
Under the old rules, you had to double a guy with the ball, cover a single player without it (no matter where he went), or be in transit between the two. This allowed a team to spread the floor (you could send Dennis rodman to the weak side, for example, and his guy couldn't sag to double the post) and the post player to establish position against a single defender, and receive the ball in isolation. He could then either go quickly before the double, or see the rotation coming from a long distance and rotate the ball to the open man. This forced secondary rotations (because the defender couldn't sprint to the post, turn around, and then sprint back in time. Cuts and picks opening them up on the weak side were common because defenders couldn't sag to the in between areas off of them. The post feeder didn't even need to be a shooter because his defender couldn't sag back into the post player's lap when he had the ball, to deny the entry. The post defender couldn't front the post to disrupt the pass without giving up the pass over the top, because again, the defense couldn't station a guy just outside (or actually in for three seconds at a time) the lane on the weak side, where he could deny the rim and still be in position to rotate to his man.
All of that changed with zone rules. Not so much for teams to play traditional zone, but they can hedge off the weak side at will, leaving them a faster double and a quicker recovery. Virtually every team zones the weak side against a post entry, bringing extra defenders into the lane area. It is why the high screen and roll is favored (ball handler can pass to both sides, this no weak side to sag from, and why most positions are now manned by shooters (to penalize a slow recovery from a hedge or double). Evolution due to rules.
BTW, the flex is a motion offense that uses spacing and movement as opposed to traditional post play, and features posting on the move and farther out to facilitate ball movement, not a slow it down and slam it into the post. |
The stuff about the zone is common knowledge. Basketball 101.why are writing this? |
Because if this is as you say common knowledge, and more succinctly, known to you, then your argument for post play becomes very very curious. Why would you play a style that is so easily defended under zone rules?
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kikanga
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | We've discussed it all over the board, but here is a quick synopsis:
Under the old rules, you had to double a guy with the ball, cover a single player without it (no matter where he went), or be in transit between the two. This allowed a team to spread the floor (you could send Dennis rodman to the weak side, for example, and his guy couldn't sag to double the post) and the post player to establish position against a single defender, and receive the ball in isolation. He could then either go quickly before the double, or see the rotation coming from a long distance and rotate the ball to the open man. This forced secondary rotations (because the defender couldn't sprint to the post, turn around, and then sprint back in time. Cuts and picks opening them up on the weak side were common because defenders couldn't sag to the in between areas off of them. The post feeder didn't even need to be a shooter because his defender couldn't sag back into the post player's lap when he had the ball, to deny the entry. The post defender couldn't front the post to disrupt the pass without giving up the pass over the top, because again, the defense couldn't station a guy just outside (or actually in for three seconds at a time) the lane on the weak side, where he could deny the rim and still be in position to rotate to his man.
All of that changed with zone rules. Not so much for teams to play traditional zone, but they can hedge off the weak side at will, leaving them a faster double and a quicker recovery. Virtually every team zones the weak side against a post entry, bringing extra defenders into the lane area. It is why the high screen and roll is favored (ball handler can pass to both sides, this no weak side to sag from, and why most positions are now manned by shooters (to penalize a slow recovery from a hedge or double). Evolution due to rules.
BTW, the flex is a motion offense that uses spacing and movement as opposed to traditional post play, and features posting on the move and farther out to facilitate ball movement, not a slow it down and slam it into the post. |
Kobe brought up what you're talking about in the Grantland hour special he did.
Mamba said the new rules catalyzed the new "SOS defense" teams are running.
Quick question, how has Memphis found so much success in their post offense?
My guess is it has something to do with Randolph converting difficult, contested paint shots with regularity, and Marc and Randolph mastering interior post passing. But admittedly, I haven't watched enough of them this year to be sure.
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jonnybravo
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | 24 wrote: | We've discussed it all over the board, but here is a quick synopsis:
Under the old rules, you had to double a guy with the ball, cover a single player without it (no matter where he went), or be in transit between the two. This allowed a team to spread the floor (you could send Dennis rodman to the weak side, for example, and his guy couldn't sag to double the post) and the post player to establish position against a single defender, and receive the ball in isolation. He could then either go quickly before the double, or see the rotation coming from a long distance and rotate the ball to the open man. This forced secondary rotations (because the defender couldn't sprint to the post, turn around, and then sprint back in time. Cuts and picks opening them up on the weak side were common because defenders couldn't sag to the in between areas off of them. The post feeder didn't even need to be a shooter because his defender couldn't sag back into the post player's lap when he had the ball, to deny the entry. The post defender couldn't front the post to disrupt the pass without giving up the pass over the top, because again, the defense couldn't station a guy just outside (or actually in for three seconds at a time) the lane on the weak side, where he could deny the rim and still be in position to rotate to his man.
All of that changed with zone rules. Not so much for teams to play traditional zone, but they can hedge off the weak side at will, leaving them a faster double and a quicker recovery. Virtually every team zones the weak side against a post entry, bringing extra defenders into the lane area. It is why the high screen and roll is favored (ball handler can pass to both sides, this no weak side to sag from, and why most positions are now manned by shooters (to penalize a slow recovery from a hedge or double). Evolution due to rules.
BTW, the flex is a motion offense that uses spacing and movement as opposed to traditional post play, and features posting on the move and farther out to facilitate ball movement, not a slow it down and slam it into the post. |
Kobe brought up what you're talking about in the Grantland hour special he did.
Mamba said the new rules catalyzed the new "SOS defense" teams are running.
Quick question, how has Memphis found so much success in their post offense?
My guess is it has something to do with Randolph converting difficult, contested paint shots with regularity, and Marc and Randolph mastering interior post passing. But admittedly, I haven't watched enough of them this year to be sure. |
Their success is because of their defense. They're #3 in DRT and #2 in OPPG. Their offense is actually mediocre at #14 ORT. They sputter in their playoffs because they can't generate points (one of the reasons they grabbed Jeff Green).
When we were going to the Finals with Pau, our offense only occsaionally actually hit Pau in the post. Points in the paint =/= points from post ups. Pau is like Marc in that he's a triple threat guy from 20 feet in. There was tons of cutting, passing etc between Kobe/Pau/Lamar.
Our offense took a dive when we began to force the ball into Bynum. Bynum is the perfect example of a dinosaur big that seems good on paper but whose net effect is to bog down the offense.
Last edited by jonnybravo on Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| jonnybravo wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | 24 wrote: | We've discussed it all over the board, but here is a quick synopsis:
Under the old rules, you had to double a guy with the ball, cover a single player without it (no matter where he went), or be in transit between the two. This allowed a team to spread the floor (you could send Dennis rodman to the weak side, for example, and his guy couldn't sag to double the post) and the post player to establish position against a single defender, and receive the ball in isolation. He could then either go quickly before the double, or see the rotation coming from a long distance and rotate the ball to the open man. This forced secondary rotations (because the defender couldn't sprint to the post, turn around, and then sprint back in time. Cuts and picks opening them up on the weak side were common because defenders couldn't sag to the in between areas off of them. The post feeder didn't even need to be a shooter because his defender couldn't sag back into the post player's lap when he had the ball, to deny the entry. The post defender couldn't front the post to disrupt the pass without giving up the pass over the top, because again, the defense couldn't station a guy just outside (or actually in for three seconds at a time) the lane on the weak side, where he could deny the rim and still be in position to rotate to his man.
All of that changed with zone rules. Not so much for teams to play traditional zone, but they can hedge off the weak side at will, leaving them a faster double and a quicker recovery. Virtually every team zones the weak side against a post entry, bringing extra defenders into the lane area. It is why the high screen and roll is favored (ball handler can pass to both sides, this no weak side to sag from, and why most positions are now manned by shooters (to penalize a slow recovery from a hedge or double). Evolution due to rules.
BTW, the flex is a motion offense that uses spacing and movement as opposed to traditional post play, and features posting on the move and farther out to facilitate ball movement, not a slow it down and slam it into the post. |
Kobe brought up what you're talking about in the Grantland hour special he did.
Mamba said the new rules catalyzed the new "SOS defense" teams are running.
Quick question, how has Memphis found so much success in their post offense?
My guess is it has something to do with Randolph converting difficult, contested paint shots with regularity, and Marc and Randolph mastering interior post passing. But admittedly, I haven't watched enough of them this year to be sure. |
Their success is because of their defense. They're #3 in DRT and #2 in OPPG. Their offense is actually mediocre at #14 ORT. They sputter in their playoffs because they can't generate points (one of the reasons they grabbed Jeff Green). |
That figures. Thanks for enlightening me.
I do think the fact that the bigs "get to eat first" offensively, helps their engagement on the boards and defensively.
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jonnybravo
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | jonnybravo wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | 24 wrote: | We've discussed it all over the board, but here is a quick synopsis:
Under the old rules, you had to double a guy with the ball, cover a single player without it (no matter where he went), or be in transit between the two. This allowed a team to spread the floor (you could send Dennis rodman to the weak side, for example, and his guy couldn't sag to double the post) and the post player to establish position against a single defender, and receive the ball in isolation. He could then either go quickly before the double, or see the rotation coming from a long distance and rotate the ball to the open man. This forced secondary rotations (because the defender couldn't sprint to the post, turn around, and then sprint back in time. Cuts and picks opening them up on the weak side were common because defenders couldn't sag to the in between areas off of them. The post feeder didn't even need to be a shooter because his defender couldn't sag back into the post player's lap when he had the ball, to deny the entry. The post defender couldn't front the post to disrupt the pass without giving up the pass over the top, because again, the defense couldn't station a guy just outside (or actually in for three seconds at a time) the lane on the weak side, where he could deny the rim and still be in position to rotate to his man.
All of that changed with zone rules. Not so much for teams to play traditional zone, but they can hedge off the weak side at will, leaving them a faster double and a quicker recovery. Virtually every team zones the weak side against a post entry, bringing extra defenders into the lane area. It is why the high screen and roll is favored (ball handler can pass to both sides, this no weak side to sag from, and why most positions are now manned by shooters (to penalize a slow recovery from a hedge or double). Evolution due to rules.
BTW, the flex is a motion offense that uses spacing and movement as opposed to traditional post play, and features posting on the move and farther out to facilitate ball movement, not a slow it down and slam it into the post. |
Kobe brought up what you're talking about in the Grantland hour special he did.
Mamba said the new rules catalyzed the new "SOS defense" teams are running.
Quick question, how has Memphis found so much success in their post offense?
My guess is it has something to do with Randolph converting difficult, contested paint shots with regularity, and Marc and Randolph mastering interior post passing. But admittedly, I haven't watched enough of them this year to be sure. |
Their success is because of their defense. They're #3 in DRT and #2 in OPPG. Their offense is actually mediocre at #14 ORT. They sputter in their playoffs because they can't generate points (one of the reasons they grabbed Jeff Green). |
That figures. Thanks for enlightening me.
I do think the fact that the bigs "get to eat first" offensively, helps their engagement on the boards and defensively. |
I agree with that. I read a Conley article that said he has an internal clock going on in his head to make sure he gets the ball to guys every few minutes to make sure they stay engaged. That said, I think that offense becomes abysmal without a center like Marc that has elite playmaking skills and relied on solely on the black hole known as Bynum, I mean Randolph. |
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| CelticBuster wrote: | Are you saying the rules will prevent a big man from dominating or playing inside out?
West coast offense involved the running back and it was still short yardage play just done differently. There was balance |
So, space and pace ball still involves the big man and still involves getting to the basket, just done differently.
| Quote: | Jacking up 35 3s with a lack of interior presence when matched against a quality big with a quality team will lose over a 7 game span. If chi town were healthy they'd have a good shot to win the title. Memphis plays gs well. It's bc of their bigs. This is shortcut basketball.corner 3s. Stretch 4s. 35 3s a game. Vulnerable. There's no in between with this offense. Layup or 3. That can be taken advantage of easily.
There's a reason SAS never went back to back. Bounced in 1St rd. Why GS and atl could be early exits. |
This is a common misunderstanding. The new school doesn't just "jack up threes". Like I showed earlier, they first and foremost attack the basket, which opens up the perimeter. In fact, one of the teams that "jacks up the most threes" is the Lakers, who are one of the league leaders in pull up and unassisted threes, because they can't get to the basket.
It's not about just threes and layups either- teams like the Spurs abuse the ten foot free throw line area with short pull up jumpers to counter the bigs that drop back and clog the basket. It's the 16-22 foot shots that they don't take.
You keep bringing up SAS- what about the other team that did go back to back, Miami? Playing a slim PF at center who says he's given up going inside. And playing a SF at PF, surrounded by 3 pt shooters.
| Quote: | The zone doesn't even stop the big bc of defense 3 second. Even without the zone doesnt stop the big. Theyre just aren't that many bugs besides the gasols, cousins.
Again are you saying that today's rules won't allow a big man to dominate? |
If you've watched Atlanta play Sac this year, that's exactly what the zone did. Their help defenders either stand just outside of the restricted area, or dip inside the restricted area selectively, allowing the post defender to front. In certain sets they have three sets of hands denying the entry pass to Cousins, often pushing him all the way out to the three point line on the catch. |
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K0BEE 2.0
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Scott should be happy that he's one of 5 coaches who has lead the team to 50 loses... Bad coaching all year long and don't tell me a healthy randle would have made a difference.. He is the blame for this mess. |
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CelticBuster
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | CelticBuster wrote: | | 24 wrote: | We've discussed it all over the board, but here is a quick synopsis:
Under the old rules, you had to double a guy with the ball, cover a single player without it (no matter where he went), or be in transit between the two. This allowed a team to spread the floor (you could send Dennis rodman to the weak side, for example, and his guy couldn't sag to double the post) and the post player to establish position against a single defender, and receive the ball in isolation. He could then either go quickly before the double, or see the rotation coming from a long distance and rotate the ball to the open man. This forced secondary rotations (because the defender couldn't sprint to the post, turn around, and then sprint back in time. Cuts and picks opening them up on the weak side were common because defenders couldn't sag to the in between areas off of them. The post feeder didn't even need to be a shooter because his defender couldn't sag back into the post player's lap when he had the ball, to deny the entry. The post defender couldn't front the post to disrupt the pass without giving up the pass over the top, because again, the defense couldn't station a guy just outside (or actually in for three seconds at a time) the lane on the weak side, where he could deny the rim and still be in position to rotate to his man.
All of that changed with zone rules. Not so much for teams to play traditional zone, but they can hedge off the weak side at will, leaving them a faster double and a quicker recovery. Virtually every team zones the weak side against a post entry, bringing extra defenders into the lane area. It is why the high screen and roll is favored (ball handler can pass to both sides, this no weak side to sag from, and why most positions are now manned by shooters (to penalize a slow recovery from a hedge or double). Evolution due to rules.
BTW, the flex is a motion offense that uses spacing and movement as opposed to traditional post play, and features posting on the move and farther out to facilitate ball movement, not a slow it down and slam it into the post. |
The stuff about the zone is common knowledge. Basketball 101.why are writing this? |
Because if this is as you say common knowledge, and more succinctly, known to you, then your argument for post play becomes very very curious. Why would you play a style that is so easily defended under zone rules? |
Hahaha what? It's not. How the hell is a flex system like Larry Brown runs easily defended in the nba. It's post centric. For the fifth time, are you saying a big can't dominate today's game? Are you saying okafor and towns will not do well? |
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CelticBuster
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| fiendishoc wrote: | | CelticBuster wrote: | Are you saying the rules will prevent a big man from dominating or playing inside out?
West coast offense involved the running back and it was still short yardage play just done differently. There was balance |
So, space and pace ball still involves the big man and still involves getting to the basket, just done differently.
| Quote: | Jacking up 35 3s with a lack of interior presence when matched against a quality big with a quality team will lose over a 7 game span. If chi town were healthy they'd have a good shot to win the title. Memphis plays gs well. It's bc of their bigs. This is shortcut basketball.corner 3s. Stretch 4s. 35 3s a game. Vulnerable. There's no in between with this offense. Layup or 3. That can be taken advantage of easily.
There's a reason SAS never went back to back. Bounced in 1St rd. Why GS and atl could be early exits. |
This is a common misunderstanding. The new school doesn't just "jack up threes". Like I showed earlier, they first and foremost attack the basket, which opens up the perimeter. In fact, one of the teams that "jacks up the most threes" is the Lakers, who are one of the league leaders in pull up and unassisted threes, because they can't get to the basket.
It's not about just threes and layups either- teams like the Spurs abuse the ten foot free throw line area with short pull up jumpers to counter the bigs that drop back and clog the basket. It's the 16-22 foot shots that they don't take.
You keep bringing up SAS- what about the other team that did go back to back, Miami? Playing a slim PF at center who says he's given up going inside. And playing a SF at PF, surrounded by 3 pt shooters.
| Quote: | The zone doesn't even stop the big bc of defense 3 second. Even without the zone doesnt stop the big. Theyre just aren't that many bugs besides the gasols, cousins.
Again are you saying that today's rules won't allow a big man to dominate? |
If you've watched Atlanta play Sac this year, that's exactly what the zone did. Their help defenders either stand just outside of the restricted area, or dip inside the restricted area selectively, allowing the post defender to front. In certain sets they have three sets of hands denying the entry pass to Cousins, often pushing him all the way out to the three point line on the catch. |
Hahahahah oh my God. There's a reason we beat SAS in 5 games in 08. Same rules. Same strategy used by SAS today as then. You think a big can't dominate today's rules? that is a joke. NBA zone doesn't do carp. Did anybody play competitive basketball on here? |
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CelticBuster
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Joined: 21 May 2014
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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An all out zone in college can't even fully neutralize a big. not when attacked properly. 
Short corners. High lows. Common sense. Also hard to rebound in a zone. |
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fiendishoc
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 8488
Location: The (real) short corner
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| Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:48 am Post subject: |
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| CelticBuster wrote: | | fiendishoc wrote: | | CelticBuster wrote: | Are you saying the rules will prevent a big man from dominating or playing inside out?
West coast offense involved the running back and it was still short yardage play just done differently. There was balance |
So, space and pace ball still involves the big man and still involves getting to the basket, just done differently.
| Quote: | Jacking up 35 3s with a lack of interior presence when matched against a quality big with a quality team will lose over a 7 game span. If chi town were healthy they'd have a good shot to win the title. Memphis plays gs well. It's bc of their bigs. This is shortcut basketball.corner 3s. Stretch 4s. 35 3s a game. Vulnerable. There's no in between with this offense. Layup or 3. That can be taken advantage of easily.
There's a reason SAS never went back to back. Bounced in 1St rd. Why GS and atl could be early exits. |
This is a common misunderstanding. The new school doesn't just "jack up threes". Like I showed earlier, they first and foremost attack the basket, which opens up the perimeter. In fact, one of the teams that "jacks up the most threes" is the Lakers, who are one of the league leaders in pull up and unassisted threes, because they can't get to the basket.
It's not about just threes and layups either- teams like the Spurs abuse the ten foot free throw line area with short pull up jumpers to counter the bigs that drop back and clog the basket. It's the 16-22 foot shots that they don't take.
You keep bringing up SAS- what about the other team that did go back to back, Miami? Playing a slim PF at center who says he's given up going inside. And playing a SF at PF, surrounded by 3 pt shooters.
| Quote: | The zone doesn't even stop the big bc of defense 3 second. Even without the zone doesnt stop the big. Theyre just aren't that many bugs besides the gasols, cousins.
Again are you saying that today's rules won't allow a big man to dominate? |
If you've watched Atlanta play Sac this year, that's exactly what the zone did. Their help defenders either stand just outside of the restricted area, or dip inside the restricted area selectively, allowing the post defender to front. In certain sets they have three sets of hands denying the entry pass to Cousins, often pushing him all the way out to the three point line on the catch. |
Hahahahah oh my God. There's a reason we beat SAS in 5 games in 08. Same rules. Same strategy used by SAS today as then. You think a big can't dominate today's rules? that is a joke. NBA zone doesn't do carp. Did anybody play competitive basketball on here? |
Way to ignore all the points where you got shot down on above. You must be the only NBA fan out there who doesn't know that San Antonio drastically changed their style away from their plodding post based 2008 style because it wasn't working anymore. No wonder nothing you've said makes sense. |
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fiendishoc
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Location: The (real) short corner
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| Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:58 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Short corners. High lows. Common sense. Also hard to rebound in a zone. |
Yes, these are things well coached teams do with their bigs, which Byron doesn't do. |
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CelticBuster
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Joined: 21 May 2014
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| Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| fiendishoc wrote: | | CelticBuster wrote: | | fiendishoc wrote: | | CelticBuster wrote: | Are you saying the rules will prevent a big man from dominating or playing inside out?
West coast offense involved the running back and it was still short yardage play just done differently. There was balance |
So, space and pace ball still involves the big man and still involves getting to the basket, just done differently.
| Quote: | Jacking up 35 3s with a lack of interior presence when matched against a quality big with a quality team will lose over a 7 game span. If chi town were healthy they'd have a good shot to win the title. Memphis plays gs well. It's bc of their bigs. This is shortcut basketball.corner 3s. Stretch 4s. 35 3s a game. Vulnerable. There's no in between with this offense. Layup or 3. That can be taken advantage of easily.
There's a reason SAS never went back to back. Bounced in 1St rd. Why GS and atl could be early exits. |
This is a common misunderstanding. The new school doesn't just "jack up threes". Like I showed earlier, they first and foremost attack the basket, which opens up the perimeter. In fact, one of the teams that "jacks up the most threes" is the Lakers, who are one of the league leaders in pull up and unassisted threes, because they can't get to the basket.
It's not about just threes and layups either- teams like the Spurs abuse the ten foot free throw line area with short pull up jumpers to counter the bigs that drop back and clog the basket. It's the 16-22 foot shots that they don't take.
You keep bringing up SAS- what about the other team that did go back to back, Miami? Playing a slim PF at center who says he's given up going inside. And playing a SF at PF, surrounded by 3 pt shooters.
| Quote: | The zone doesn't even stop the big bc of defense 3 second. Even without the zone doesnt stop the big. Theyre just aren't that many bugs besides the gasols, cousins.
Again are you saying that today's rules won't allow a big man to dominate? |
If you've watched Atlanta play Sac this year, that's exactly what the zone did. Their help defenders either stand just outside of the restricted area, or dip inside the restricted area selectively, allowing the post defender to front. In certain sets they have three sets of hands denying the entry pass to Cousins, often pushing him all the way out to the three point line on the catch. |
Hahahahah oh my God. There's a reason we beat SAS in 5 games in 08. Same rules. Same strategy used by SAS today as then. You think a big can't dominate today's rules? that is a joke. NBA zone doesn't do carp. Did anybody play competitive basketball on here? |
Way to ignore all the points where you got shot down on above. You must be the only NBA fan out there who doesn't know that San Antonio drastically changed their style away from their plodding post based 2008 style because it wasn't working anymore. No wonder nothing you've said makes sense. |
Yeah buddy. They still did same offense, short corner threes, same play calls. They just pushed their pace iin 2010-11. Same d though. You ever played competitve ball? You sound like a clown. 2011 first rd loss to Memphis. They had made that transition. They're d which has been the same, can't stop bigs.
Last edited by CelticBuster on Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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CelticBuster
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| Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| fiendishoc wrote: | | Quote: | | Short corners. High lows. Common sense. Also hard to rebound in a zone. |
Yes, these are things well coached teams do with their bigs, which Byron doesn't do. |
Im talking short corner against a zone if you know what that is. Not a short corner three. |
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fiendishoc
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 8488
Location: The (real) short corner
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| Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| CelticBuster wrote: | | fiendishoc wrote: | | CelticBuster wrote: | | fiendishoc wrote: | | CelticBuster wrote: | Are you saying the rules will prevent a big man from dominating or playing inside out?
West coast offense involved the running back and it was still short yardage play just done differently. There was balance |
So, space and pace ball still involves the big man and still involves getting to the basket, just done differently.
| Quote: | Jacking up 35 3s with a lack of interior presence when matched against a quality big with a quality team will lose over a 7 game span. If chi town were healthy they'd have a good shot to win the title. Memphis plays gs well. It's bc of their bigs. This is shortcut basketball.corner 3s. Stretch 4s. 35 3s a game. Vulnerable. There's no in between with this offense. Layup or 3. That can be taken advantage of easily.
There's a reason SAS never went back to back. Bounced in 1St rd. Why GS and atl could be early exits. |
This is a common misunderstanding. The new school doesn't just "jack up threes". Like I showed earlier, they first and foremost attack the basket, which opens up the perimeter. In fact, one of the teams that "jacks up the most threes" is the Lakers, who are one of the league leaders in pull up and unassisted threes, because they can't get to the basket.
It's not about just threes and layups either- teams like the Spurs abuse the ten foot free throw line area with short pull up jumpers to counter the bigs that drop back and clog the basket. It's the 16-22 foot shots that they don't take.
You keep bringing up SAS- what about the other team that did go back to back, Miami? Playing a slim PF at center who says he's given up going inside. And playing a SF at PF, surrounded by 3 pt shooters.
| Quote: | The zone doesn't even stop the big bc of defense 3 second. Even without the zone doesnt stop the big. Theyre just aren't that many bugs besides the gasols, cousins.
Again are you saying that today's rules won't allow a big man to dominate? |
If you've watched Atlanta play Sac this year, that's exactly what the zone did. Their help defenders either stand just outside of the restricted area, or dip inside the restricted area selectively, allowing the post defender to front. In certain sets they have three sets of hands denying the entry pass to Cousins, often pushing him all the way out to the three point line on the catch. |
Hahahahah oh my God. There's a reason we beat SAS in 5 games in 08. Same rules. Same strategy used by SAS today as then. You think a big can't dominate today's rules? that is a joke. NBA zone doesn't do carp. Did anybody play competitive basketball on here? |
Way to ignore all the points where you got shot down on above. You must be the only NBA fan out there who doesn't know that San Antonio drastically changed their style away from their plodding post based 2008 style because it wasn't working anymore. No wonder nothing you've said makes sense. |
Yeah buddy. They still did same offense, short corner threes, same play calls. They just pushed their pace iin 2010-11. Same d though. You ever played competitve ball? You soundlikeaclown. 2011 first rd loss to Memphis. They had made that transition. They're d which has been the same, can't stop bigs. |
Stop pretending you know anything about basketball. You don't even know what a short corner is. |
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fiendishoc
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 8488
Location: The (real) short corner
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| Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| CelticBuster wrote: | | fiendishoc wrote: | | Quote: | | Short corners. High lows. Common sense. Also hard to rebound in a zone. |
Yes, these are things well coached teams do with their bigs, which Byron doesn't do. |
Im talking short corner against a zone if you know what that is. Not a short corner three. |
Yes- I know exactly what a short corner against a zone is- I spent over 20 posts talking about why we need to use it and that are bigs are not playing close enough to the baseline.
And short corner three is one of those annoying terms McDonald uses that doesn't make sense at all. Its just a frigging corner 3. |
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fiendishoc
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Location: The (real) short corner
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