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Voices
Star Player
Joined: 07 Jul 2006
Posts: 8287
Location: Oxnard, Ca.
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 Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | maomao wrote: | | Voices wrote: | | maomao wrote: | | I don't get it, some of you come into a coaching discussion thread to say that coaching doesn't matter and talent wins championships. Why are you discussing or defending our coach if you think that coaching doesn't matter? |
Are you sure about your question? This conversation is about coaching not about BS, he just happens to be the coach of the Lakers crappy roster that no coach in history could win with. |
that's exactly my point, if you don't think BS's coaching matters, why come into this thread? There is no point to discuss what BS does coaching the lakers if you think coaching doesn't matter in today's NBA. |
Because the Official Lakers Roster P&M Thread doesn't exist.
Because after 3 coaches in 3 seasons it becomes obvious the limitations coaching can have on a team.
Kobe playing 25% of the games the last two years is a way bigger issue than scott and that's just 1 piece of the roster.
This is Kobe's third season ending injury in 3 years and people wanna blame Scott?
Wesley Johnson looks lost on the court like he has his whole career and its Scott's fault?
Hill, boozer and sacre are our big men and our defensive rotations suck?! Must be the coach!
I laugh at the thought coaching is holding back our roster.
With randle and kobe injured most of the season. Scott's hasn't had his two highest upside players anywhere near 100%.
If coaching could change scrubs into average or above average players, the worst teams in the league wouldn't have revolving doors for their coaching staffs.
Nearly 1/3 of the league hired new coaches since last year. And over half the league makes the playoffs! http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/7/27/5941639/challenges-ahead-nba-head-coaching-changes-2014
That's just 1 year. If I went back over the past 2 to 3 years. I'm sure the coaching changeover numbers for the bottom of the league would be even more prevalent. |
That link tells an ugly true story. Coaches get blamed for horrible management, however, they get paid pretty damm good, there is a silver lining.
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ALTHOUGH HE STANDS 6 FEET 2 INCHES, JIM BUSS ATTENDED JOCKEY SCHOOL WHEN HE WAS 20. |
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villavs
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Joined: 28 Nov 2014
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Voices wrote: | | villavs wrote: | | Voices wrote: | | freethrow wrote: | | You know you're scraping the bottom if the only way you can defend a coach is to say that coaching doesn't matter. |
Who is saying coaching does not matter?
Let me make this perfectly clear talent wins championships, it means coaching takes a backseat to talent.
Did the Cavs get better because of the coach or LJ getting healthy? You see how simple the game is, get James back healthy and you start winning, get Noah back healthy and end GS 19 game home winning streak.
I'm sure you agree that coaching takes a backseat to talent, and that you don't win without championships without talent. |
I think everyone agrees that you need a talented team to win championships. But IMHO, I also think that you need a good coach to win championships. Therefore, the contribution of the coach cannot be ignored.
Question: which of the NBA teams that had won a championship had a bad coach and why do you think they were a bad coach? |
I do believe that is a question for yourself. I'm not talking about bad coaches, most NBA coaches are excellent coaches, when they have talent they win, it's that simple. |
By your account, if everything is on the roster, then in fact, there are no such thing as "excellent" coaches. |
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tirebiter
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Joined: 31 Jul 2014
Posts: 401
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| Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| VegasLakerFan wrote: | | tirebiter wrote: | | VegasLakerFan wrote: |
In this analogy our "driver" hasn't even left the garage yet because the "car" wouldn't start. You can't run red lights in a car that won't run. |
yeah but it's still a car, and there are a few basic things that the driver can't even do regardless of the type of car he's in, such as latching on the seat belt, adjust the mirrors so he can see properly, know whether he has an automatic or manual, gas or diesel, etc... 
but seriously, a lot of his head scratching decisions this year has nothing to do with the quality of the talent on the team. i don't think people are upset at the wins and losses, although that's part of it. people are questioning his decision making skills, the way he manages a team and personnel, his commitment to the team despite the talent level (have you ever heard of a coach forgetting the time of a game??), his insistence on fitting square pegs into round holes, etc.. |
I think a lot of the "head scratchers" are because he's not really trying to win. He's trying to see who can do what. Playing Kelly at the three is a great example. I think its pretty obvious that he isn't a three, but maybe he's got some Robert Horry in him (at least offensively). Now is the time to find out, not when we've got a team with a chance to win.
Did he really forget the time of a game? I don't doubt you, but that's more funny than concerning to me. I don't doubt his commitment for a second. |
i posted pretty much the exact same thing either here or in another thread. but yeah, totally agree. he's not in it to win it this year. he's not committed to win this year. that was evident early on. winning was a bonus, not a goal, unfortunately. one of the goals was to see where kobe is as a player and we found that out the hard way. and yeah, rest of it is just finding out what he has and he said as much.
that's why the criteria of a good coach being someone that can see what he has on a roster and develop a system accordingly doesn't really apply to scott this year. now, whether he has the ability to do that, i don't know. but this year, at least, he just doesn't care. he has a vision of how he wants his team to be in the next few years, and what he's looking for from every position. if you don't fit his vision, he doesn't mind sitting you and playing someone else. he'll try to fit you into a square hole and if you don't fit, he'll just go on to the next person. that's how this year has looked like to me.
and yes, he was 30min late for the game last sunday because he forgot it was sunday. |
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kikanga
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Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29282
Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:40 am Post subject: |
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| fiendishoc wrote: | Gasol under Phil- one of the best big men in the league
Gasol under Brown- trade him before he declines further
Gasol under D'Antoni- washed up bum
Gasol under Thibs- one of the best big men in the league |
Gasol's always been amazing. Even in his "trade him" and "washed up" phases. His stats only dropped off as a third option (which is normal).
Sure coaching has mattered around the edges. But Pau's talent provides a high floor.
Gasol Stats:
2011: 18/10/3
2012: 13/8/4 (as third option)
2013: 17/10/3.5
2014: 18/12/3
Players>coaching
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"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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where24happens
Star Player
Joined: 08 May 2009
Posts: 3410
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Thibodeau is probably going to be let go after this season. Lakers need to eat Byron's contract and get this dude. |
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CBaller8
Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Feb 2002
Posts: 14876
Location: Reseda, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| How did cp3 produce in Byron's offense? |
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tyusedney1
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Thibs or Nash should replace this BS of a coach |
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fiendishoc
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 8488
Location: The (real) short corner
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | fiendishoc wrote: | Gasol under Phil- one of the best big men in the league
Gasol under Brown- trade him before he declines further
Gasol under D'Antoni- washed up bum
Gasol under Thibs- one of the best big men in the league |
Gasol's always been amazing. Even in his "trade him" and "washed up" phases. His stats only dropped off as a third option (which is normal).
Sure coaching has mattered around the edges. But Pau's talent provides a high floor.
Gasol Stats:
2011: 18/10/3
2012: 13/8/4 (as third option)
2013: 17/10/3.5
2014: 18/12/3
Players>coaching |
His efficiency suffered noticeably under the two middle coaches, as they had him operating away from the paint, which affected fans perceptions of him. No one is arguing that coaching is more important than talent. But it definitely affects production. And definitely you can't use talent to excuse every bad coaching decision. |
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nashftw
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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cp3 was the star and focal point of the team. scott obviously lets his superstars run the show in the hopes that they will carry the team to wins. same with kobe here - free rein, lots of minutes. great conditions for any star in his prime.
i think one argument is not so much the roster and how any coach will fail but the manner of failing.
it is granted that the roster is weak and any coach will have difficulty reaching the playoffs with them. but it isn't a big thing to ask for a coach to improve his management of players so that the team will not be as frustrating to watch with so much head scratching decision making. right now, the players, all adults, who have reached the highest level of the sport, are being treated like kids by the coach with his silly mind games, giving and taking away minutes like they were candy. in the meantime, there seems to be no rhyme and reason to their on court strategy, he keeps preaching defense but there does not seem to be equal accountability on that end of the floor.
for me, the roster is what it is but the coaching failures are so blatant even for non-technical fans, and all over the media it has also been criticized endlessly, that i wonder how come almost everyone sees it but there are still some who make excuses for him. |
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CBaller8
Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Feb 2002
Posts: 14876
Location: Reseda, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| nashftw wrote: | cp3 was the star and focal point of the team. scott obviously lets his superstars run the show in the hopes that they will carry the team to wins. same with kobe here - free rein, lots of minutes. great conditions for any star in his prime.
i think one argument is not so much the roster and how any coach will fail but the manner of failing.
it is granted that the roster is weak and any coach will have difficulty reaching the playoffs with them. but it isn't a big thing to ask for a coach to improve his management of players so that the team will not be as frustrating to watch with so much head scratching decision making. right now, the players, all adults, who have reached the highest level of the sport, are being treated like kids by the coach with his silly mind games, giving and taking away minutes like they were candy. in the meantime, there seems to be no rhyme and reason to their on court strategy, he keeps preaching defense but there does not seem to be equal accountability on that end of the floor.
for me, the roster is what it is but the coaching failures are so blatant even for non-technical fans, and all over the media it has also been criticized endlessly, that i wonder how come almost everyone sees it but there are still some who make excuses for him. |
He's a "Laker legend" that won NBA titles with the showtime teams. |
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nashftw
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Joined: 19 Jul 2014
Posts: 177
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| CBaller8 wrote: | | nashftw wrote: | cp3 was the star and focal point of the team. scott obviously lets his superstars run the show in the hopes that they will carry the team to wins. same with kobe here - free rein, lots of minutes. great conditions for any star in his prime.
i think one argument is not so much the roster and how any coach will fail but the manner of failing.
it is granted that the roster is weak and any coach will have difficulty reaching the playoffs with them. but it isn't a big thing to ask for a coach to improve his management of players so that the team will not be as frustrating to watch with so much head scratching decision making. right now, the players, all adults, who have reached the highest level of the sport, are being treated like kids by the coach with his silly mind games, giving and taking away minutes like they were candy. in the meantime, there seems to be no rhyme and reason to their on court strategy, he keeps preaching defense but there does not seem to be equal accountability on that end of the floor.
for me, the roster is what it is but the coaching failures are so blatant even for non-technical fans, and all over the media it has also been criticized endlessly, that i wonder how come almost everyone sees it but there are still some who make excuses for him. |
He's a "Laker legend" that won NBA titles with the showtime teams. |
as a player. he will be a laker legend forever as a player. it's not so bad to be real - if he can't hack it as a coach, then so be it. magic was the same, poor coach, but still one of the best players that ever laced up sneakers. |
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trunkz08
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Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 534
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| nashftw wrote: | cp3 was the star and focal point of the team. scott obviously lets his superstars run the show in the hopes that they will carry the team to wins. same with kobe here - free rein, lots of minutes. great conditions for any star in his prime.
i think one argument is not so much the roster and how any coach will fail but the manner of failing.
it is granted that the roster is weak and any coach will have difficulty reaching the playoffs with them. but it isn't a big thing to ask for a coach to improve his management of players so that the team will not be as frustrating to watch with so much head scratching decision making. right now, the players, all adults, who have reached the highest level of the sport, are being treated like kids by the coach with his silly mind games, giving and taking away minutes like they were candy. in the meantime, there seems to be no rhyme and reason to their on court strategy, he keeps preaching defense but there does not seem to be equal accountability on that end of the floor.
for me, the roster is what it is but the coaching failures are so blatant even for non-technical fans, and all over the media it has also been criticized endlessly, that i wonder how come almost everyone sees it but there are still some who make excuses for him. |
You just dropped the mic. That was brilliant. |
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fiendishoc
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 8488
Location: The (real) short corner
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| CBaller8 wrote: | | How did cp3 produce in Byron's offense? |
Pretty good, but you can't really say he was running the offense because you would see him point at everyone to get out of the way, and then he ran high pick and roll with Chandler every possession. This was a time where no one in the league knew what to do to defend it. It sort of goes back to the adage that stars don't need systems - the system is for elevating the other guys. Eventually though, other coaches figured it out and made adjustments and they couldn't score in the playoffs, getting stomped by the Nuggets in the first round. |
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Juneway
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Joined: 24 Nov 2014
Posts: 127
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| enlighten me, what's the thinking of start Sacre?? Sacre is a hard working man. But he won't start in this league except Lakers. |
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Drifts
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Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Posts: 28374
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Juneway wrote: | | enlighten me, what's the thinking of start Sacre?? Sacre is a hard working man. But he won't start in this league except Lakers. |
I agree... Sacre is a useful enforcer type of guy... like a bruiser, 3rd string C... but to start him over Davis makes no sense.
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"Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it." |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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I have to give Byron props, convincing Hill to start the game taking shots in the paint and then expand to the outside as he gains confidence was a good coaching move.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Jackchang
Sixth Man
Joined: 02 Jan 2015
Posts: 36
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| oh guys anyone remember the head of snake? where is he now? why is the head of snake not getting any minute recently? did the snake eat up all of his complements to the head of snake? |
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fafan
Star Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2014
Posts: 1476
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | I have to give Byron props, convincing Hill to start the game taking shots in the paint and then expand to the outside as he gains confidence was a good coaching move. |
BS may said: we are tanking, just play as you want. You have my amnesty 
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"Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." --Sarah Cook. |
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fafan
Star Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2014
Posts: 1476
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Jackchang wrote: | | oh guys anyone remember the head of snake? where is he now? why is the head of snake not getting any minute recently? did the snake eat up all of his complements to the head of snake? |
Maybe BS has found another BF. 
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"Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." --Sarah Cook. |
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Jackchang
Sixth Man
Joined: 02 Jan 2015
Posts: 36
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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| oh guys anyone remember the head of snake? where is he now? why is the head of snake not getting any minute recently? did the snake eat up all of his complements to the head of snake? |
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ch3cky0selff00
Star Player
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 4392
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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If the Lakers are going to run this offense they're going to somehow need to get their hands on a legit offensive center. I know the popular thing around here is that "rim protector" but often-times these "rim protectors" have no offense. It won't work if there's nobody really that the defense has to double team.
Tyson Chandler had Dirk Nowitski. So.. spare me that "rim protector" lol. The Lakers aren't (yet at least) blessed with another post player that commands a double-team. Kobe is going to be on a heavy minutes restriction from what it seems next season.. so I don't consider him that person.
Get a center that commands a double team and can pass out of said double team and then you've got something with this offense..
I think Karl Towns could grow into that type of center within a few years. I don't see the Lakers being able to pry away Marc Gasol or DeMarcus Cousins.. so Towns is probably the next best option imo. |
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pio2u
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Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54570
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Jackchang wrote: | | oh guys anyone remember the head of snake? where is he now? why is the head of snake not getting any minute recently? did the snake eat up all of his complements to the head of snake? |
He (mercifully) became a victim of Coach Scott's 20 game line-up change/rotation. |
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Reflexx
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Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 11163
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:26 am Post subject: |
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| I was shocked to see movement out there tonight. Good game. |
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nashftw
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Joined: 19 Jul 2014
Posts: 177
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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| pio2u wrote: | | Jackchang wrote: | | oh guys anyone remember the head of snake? where is he now? why is the head of snake not getting any minute recently? did the snake eat up all of his complements to the head of snake? |
He (mercifully) became a victim of Coach Scott's 20 game line-up change/rotation. |
would be interesting if a reporter asks Scott a direct question:
"Coach, you have said time again that Ronnie Price was the head of the snake and the one most similar to Kobe in many aspects, how come he has been benched the past several games?"
I would love to hear his answer to that one. |
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Chronicle
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Joined: 21 Jul 2012
Posts: 31935
Location: Manhattan
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| Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:18 am Post subject: |
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You just answered it yourself. He's similar to Kobe in so many ways. Kobe is sitting, so to be similar to Kobe he has to sit!
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