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fiendishoc Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 8488 Location: The (real) short corner
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Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:05 am Post subject: |
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CabinCreek44 wrote: | Maybe we could lose a game, or play a bad quarter, or allow a 10-0 run, during an actual regular season game, before we begin the P&M about Byron Scott?
The best players on this team are geezing, the rest of the "talent" is spotty at best, we're already loaded with the injured and infirm, and Byron is a stiff because we're losing games that don't even count?
As Tyrion Lannister said, it's going to be a long season. |
Imagine if Byron said the first option this season was for Kobe to jack a three every single time down the floor, and the team does it and proceeds to lose by 30-40 in two preseason games - and then afterwards he says that the team's problem is that they didn't play hard enough, and was missing key rebounders. Would you still say wait until the regular season to start waving red flags?
Well, this "long 2" offense is yielding about the same efficiency that you would see from that approach. Of course its time to start feeling some concern.
Edit: Just want to add the disclaimer that they haven't yet worked on offense all that much. Still, the comments coming out of Byron's mouth are very disturbing. |
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lukewaltonsdad Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2014 Posts: 2983
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Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:47 am Post subject: |
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24 wrote: | lukewaltonsdad wrote: | MJST wrote: | "if he could go" isn't happening.
Scott said Lin'd likely be starting and Nash coming off the bench. |
Lin likely won't play...Nash is listed as a probable starter according to Pincus. Even if Lin does play, and Nash says he's healthy, I'd still think Scott would favor Nash. Either way, it's all moot; Nash will hurt himself and force Scott's hand...the disappointing thing to me in all of this is Nash should have already been benched... |
I agree with playing Nash significantly in the pre season. Best to see what he can do now. |
I usually agree with your analysis, but in this particular case, I simply do not. We already know what Nash could do; Scott has seen Jon in practice and the first quarter of the Denver game. He's also seen Nash last year when he was analyzing games for Time Warner. If he needs to assess him anymore than that, then he could Steve could come off the bench. Scott should put it to rest officially and declare Steve a non factor because that's what he is essentially; but as of yesterday, Scott stated 'he had no idea,' what he was going to do. This has become a distraction that we don't need now or during the season. Nevertheless, it will be settled when Nash inevitably carries another bag or tweaks something else; Scott will have to do figure a solution. |
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DimesnD Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Feb 2009 Posts: 944
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Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:17 am Post subject: |
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B. Scott was not my first choice. But because the ownership believes in clinging on the "heralded" past at all costs to dictate their future, Scott was a natural choice. The message is old and hopefully it reaches a few ears but make no mistake, "where's the beef?" ain't that funny in today's age.
Does Scott really think Sacre and Hill being at the high post would yield the same success as it would with a young kenyon Martin? I see alot of time wasting when they have to wait for the PG to shed his man and come get the ball. |
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LA_Lakers_Rule Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Aug 2004 Posts: 19482 Location: The X-Files
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Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:35 am Post subject: |
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DimesnD wrote: | B. Scott was not my first choice. But because the ownership believes in clinging on the "heralded" past at all costs to dictate their future, Scott was a natural choice. The message is old and hopefully it reaches a few ears but make no mistake, "where's the beef?" ain't that funny in today's age.
Does Scott really think Sacre and Hill being at the high post would yield the same success as it would with a young kenyon Martin? I see alot of time wasting when they have to wait for the PG to shed his man and come get the ball. |
It's a matter of having to deal with what you've got.... _________________ Rule = win titles
Good judgment comes from experience and a lot of that comes from bad judgment. - Will Rogers ... |
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SGV-Laker fan Star Player
Joined: 23 May 2013 Posts: 8842
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Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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DimesnD wrote: | B. Scott was not my first choice. But because the ownership believes in clinging on the "heralded" past at all costs to dictate their future, Scott was a natural choice. The message is old and hopefully it reaches a few ears but make no mistake, "where's the beef?" ain't that funny in today's age.
Does Scott really think Sacre and Hill being at the high post would yield the same success as it would with a young kenyon Martin? I see alot of time wasting when they have to wait for the PG to shed his man and come get the ball. |
exactly, this Laker ownership is still trying to sell public the glorious past. get over it, Lakers is a laughing stock nowadays in the league. past glory means sh*t in today's FAs' eyes. this season gonna be even more horrendous than previous year. at least when MDA was here while we losing games we at least put some ton of points to entertain fans. now this squad just going to lose game while scoring in the 80's. |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26085
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Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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DimesnD wrote: | B. Scott was not my first choice. But because the ownership believes in clinging on the "heralded" past at all costs to dictate their future, Scott was a natural choice. The message is old and hopefully it reaches a few ears but make no mistake, "where's the beef?" ain't that funny in today's age.
Does Scott really think Sacre and Hill being at the high post would yield the same success as it would with a young kenyon Martin? I see alot of time wasting when they have to wait for the PG to shed his man and come get the ball. |
How many Sacre Hill lineups do you see Scott running?
Sounds like you're creating an overestimated assumption on what Scott plans to do.
Why Scott is here is to set the precedent of what's expected of those that wear Purple and Gold. A precedent that was completely gone during Mike D'antoni's tenure and his greatest reason for why we lost games were because "they(the other team) are just better."
Scott isn't accepting that and doesn't play that. He's instilling a mentality that no matter what roster they have they are going to prepare and carry themselves like they are going after a championship and should play with that kind of intensity every single night.
However that works out depending on the roster is irrelevant, what matters is instilling that kind of attitude and nature within the organization and coaching staff that's been missing over the past few years.
It was a needed instillation. Particularly moving forward into the future to set that precedent that this isn't the place to come, get your stats in a 27 win year and everything is good. When you're here you're here to work hard.
That's a very big reason why Beasley is not here right now. |
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DSF_27 Starting Rotation
Joined: 16 Jan 2007 Posts: 310
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Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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If Byron hadnt been a Laker in the 80s he wouldnt have even been considered.
Thats a pretty dumb reason for choosing a coach. Id rather have a real teacher of the game than someone with a nostalgia factor.
I honestly think he doesnt have a clue as to why the Lakers are shooting such few threes. I think he was asked after the first game by the media why they shot so few and and he was probably clueless that it even happened. But he obviously cant say that so his defense was to say it was a "good" thing. Then the trend continued and now people think its because of his coaching "philosophy".
His coaching philosophy is to not get fired. |
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cheesysapien Starting Rotation
Joined: 15 Oct 2014 Posts: 357
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Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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MJST wrote: | Not much to take away from the games. The starters seem to be getting the offense down for the most part except for the fact they've had 3 different starting lineups in the first 4 games.
The bench is the entire 3rd string + Randle and Davis and Randle and Davis have been the best players of it. So... everything has pretty much been to be expected.
We really won't know what to take away from anything till Wayne Ellington isn't our only three point shooter and X, Kelly, Lin, Nash and eventually Young are back.
24 wrote: |
They should have Boozer doing the screen setting and then rolling to his shooting spots, with other guys reading Lin and cutting or spotting up. Kobe can move in and out of the post area wile allowing Lin room to penetrate. |
Agree 100%. Too bad we've only seen one game of Lin with the starting lineup. I hope that the starting lineup in full gets a chance to play at least one week of pre-season to get some things flowing a bit. |
Yes I hope so too. It will be fun to watch Lin running the point for the first unit and see how far we could go |
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CabinCreek44 Star Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001 Posts: 3855
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Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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fiendishoc wrote: | CabinCreek44 wrote: | Maybe we could lose a game, or play a bad quarter, or allow a 10-0 run, during an actual regular season game, before we begin the P&M about Byron Scott?
The best players on this team are geezing, the rest of the "talent" is spotty at best, we're already loaded with the injured and infirm, and Byron is a stiff because we're losing games that don't even count?
As Tyrion Lannister said, it's going to be a long season. |
Imagine if Byron said the first option this season was for Kobe to jack a three every single time down the floor, and the team does it and proceeds to lose by 30-40 in two preseason games - and then afterwards he says that the team's problem is that they didn't play hard enough, and was missing key rebounders. Would you still say wait until the regular season to start waving red flags?
Well, this "long 2" offense is yielding about the same efficiency that you would see from that approach. Of course its time to start feeling some concern.
Edit: Just want to add the disclaimer that they haven't yet worked on offense all that much. Still, the comments coming out of Byron's mouth are very disturbing. |
The preseason means absolutely nothing. It means less than nothing. It's too long, and the players (especially the veterans) and coaches just do the best they can to get thru in one piece these glorified scrimmages/league marketing opportunities.
That said I am wildly concerned with what we'll be watching this season. Frankly, I think the only hope we have is Kobe. But if he can't be Kobe, this team is not going to be very good. Regardless of what offense Byron Scott is trying to run, or anything else he tries to do.
This team is talent deficient. And if we aren't any good, that's going to be the reason why. |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26085
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Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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Let's not forget before we put stock into how that bench performed. We've been so shorthanded we've actually ran a lineup Jeremy Tyler, Wayne Ellington, Wes Johnson, Carlos Boozer, and Robert Sacre at some point if even for a moment.
No team in the NBA is gonna struggle against that, if they do they have severe worries. |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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MJST wrote: | Let's not forget before we put stock into how that bench performed against Utah's bench that we were so shorthanded we ran a lineup Jeremy Tyler, Wayne Ellington, Wes Johnson, Carlos Boozer, and Robert Sacre at one point.
No team in the NBA is gonna struggle against that, if they do they have severe worries. |
Who's saying anything about struggle? Many of those players are rotation players and one of them is a starter.
I'm not even asking for struggle. I'm asking for don't manhandle in every possible human way. LOL |
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Yumyumcha Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 751
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Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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Heck, if we didn't give MDA the benefit of the doubt with all the injuries he had last season, why should we let Scott off.... |
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fiendishoc Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 8488 Location: The (real) short corner
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Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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MJST wrote: | DimesnD wrote: | B. Scott was not my first choice. But because the ownership believes in clinging on the "heralded" past at all costs to dictate their future, Scott was a natural choice. The message is old and hopefully it reaches a few ears but make no mistake, "where's the beef?" ain't that funny in today's age.
Does Scott really think Sacre and Hill being at the high post would yield the same success as it would with a young kenyon Martin? I see alot of time wasting when they have to wait for the PG to shed his man and come get the ball. |
How many Sacre Hill lineups do you see Scott running?
Sounds like you're creating an overestimated assumption on what Scott plans to do.
Why Scott is here is to set the precedent of what's expected of those that wear Purple and Gold. A precedent that was completely gone during Mike D'antoni's tenure and his greatest reason for why we lost games were because "they(the other team) are just better."
Scott isn't accepting that and doesn't play that. He's instilling a mentality that no matter what roster they have they are going to prepare and carry themselves like they are going after a championship and should play with that kind of intensity every single night.
However that works out depending on the roster is irrelevant, what matters is instilling that kind of attitude and nature within the organization and coaching staff that's been missing over the past few years.
It was a needed instillation. Particularly moving forward into the future to set that precedent that this isn't the place to come, get your stats in a 27 win year and everything is good. When you're here you're here to work hard.
That's a very big reason why Beasley is not here right now. |
So it's acceptable to go down by 30-40 in preseason games and then blame it on injuries? When D'antoni gets blown out due to injuries, its because he doesn't "know what its like to represent this jersey". |
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lukewaltonsdad Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2014 Posts: 2983
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Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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We should have hired George Karl. |
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Tyrion Lannister Star Player
Joined: 20 May 2014 Posts: 4567 Location: Westeros
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Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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Just going to wait and see about this team.
Its only pre season, but the trends about this team are not encouraging.
Kobe looks great.
Nash needs to go away and never comeback. He is done. |
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lakersken80 Retired Number
Joined: 12 Aug 2009 Posts: 38751
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Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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wolfpaclaker wrote: | Dave20 wrote: | Byron is still stuck in the 80's, Kareem. Magic, and Worthy aren't walking through that door(playing anyways). |
Yes, but what coach would take the amazing lineup of Price, 20 ppg decline version of Kobe, Wesley, Hill and Boozer to great heights?
This is one of the most untalented teams I've seen in Laker land in a long time. Not so much in depth, but at the top. Even in the just after Shaq trade days, we had prime Kobe, Lamar and Caron. After that we got Kobe, Lamar, Mihm (at the time Mihm was good post player) and some decent shooters.
The Lakers right now are a hot mess roster wise. 4 PF's in Hill, Davis, Boozer, Randle and no real C. We're playing guys who should be at PF, at C. And it's not like the guys at PF have speed that can use as an advantage. At SF we have a no body. At PG, it's been Price/Nash.
Come on guys, so far in PS, this team has looked bad sets wise, but they're also plain bad. At the top (top 3 players) this is easily the worst team on paper we've had in a long time |
The lineup on paper definitely won't get people excited....Coach Scott adds an element of credibility since he knows what it takes to win, at least as a player. I think with the lack of major free agent acquisitions having Coach Scott definitely made things much easier than having MDA back, considering a lot of fans were calling for his head. The problem with this team is lack of size, our veterans like Kobe and Nash who are fighting age, and players like Randle who are young and inexperienced that you cannot just shoulder the burden of the franchise so early in their careers. |
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DimesnD Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Feb 2009 Posts: 944
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Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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MJST wrote: |
How many Sacre Hill lineups do you see Scott running?
Sounds like you're creating an overestimated assumption on what Scott plans to do.
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If the question is how many lineup have I seen Sacre and Hill play TOGETHER? I can't say I have but how is that relevant to my original post? If what you are insunating is true then it follows that both Hill and Sacre would be at the high post at the same time. There would be no logic to that. What has happened is when EITHER one is in, the center position goes to the high post. Not their strength. |
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kobe_luver Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 Posts: 11644 Location: LA
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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Great idea having a hard practice today before our game later. Not only will the guys have no legs again but now Kelly's right hamstring is sore when he was ready to return from the left one!! |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26085
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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fiendishoc wrote: | MJST wrote: | DimesnD wrote: | B. Scott was not my first choice. But because the ownership believes in clinging on the "heralded" past at all costs to dictate their future, Scott was a natural choice. The message is old and hopefully it reaches a few ears but make no mistake, "where's the beef?" ain't that funny in today's age.
Does Scott really think Sacre and Hill being at the high post would yield the same success as it would with a young kenyon Martin? I see alot of time wasting when they have to wait for the PG to shed his man and come get the ball. |
How many Sacre Hill lineups do you see Scott running?
Sounds like you're creating an overestimated assumption on what Scott plans to do.
Why Scott is here is to set the precedent of what's expected of those that wear Purple and Gold. A precedent that was completely gone during Mike D'antoni's tenure and his greatest reason for why we lost games were because "they(the other team) are just better."
Scott isn't accepting that and doesn't play that. He's instilling a mentality that no matter what roster they have they are going to prepare and carry themselves like they are going after a championship and should play with that kind of intensity every single night.
However that works out depending on the roster is irrelevant, what matters is instilling that kind of attitude and nature within the organization and coaching staff that's been missing over the past few years.
It was a needed instillation. Particularly moving forward into the future to set that precedent that this isn't the place to come, get your stats in a 27 win year and everything is good. When you're here you're here to work hard.
That's a very big reason why Beasley is not here right now. |
So it's acceptable to go down by 30-40 in preseason games and then blame it on injuries? When D'antoni gets blown out due to injuries, its because he doesn't "know what its like to represent this jersey". |
Doesn't make the fans that bashed D'antoni for that correct either.
It's really down to the personnel and the fact you can only do with what you've got.
Fans complaining about us not taking threes when due to personnel and injuries we have one maybe 2 three point shooters on the team.
To shoot more threes would mean forcing Price and Kobe to jack up threes for the sake of them which would be stupid and something people would hate our last coach for doing.
We can't bash D'antoni for 'playing people out of position and away from their strengths' and then bash Byron for not forcing this team to take more threes when we have one at most three point shooter in our starting and bench lineups. |
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greenfrog Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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lukewaltonsdad wrote: | We should have hired George Karl. |
yeah his ego wouldn't clash with kobe's at all... there simply no good choices. |
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BobbyB Star Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Posts: 2489
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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We just don't have the players to compete on a night to night basis. I was a huge dantoni supporter and believe he got to much of the blame for the how the team performed but as I stated earlier the team is just not good. |
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K2 Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Dec 2011 Posts: 23529
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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Mike Brown - Master cleanser of all things triangle
Mike D'Antoni - Showtime 2.0
Byron 'Antom Scott - Showtime 1.0 guy inherits some Showtime 2.0 guys and works them like he got worked in the 80s |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe the players aren't very talented, but don't the deserve modern offensive and defensive systems? One of the best shots to take today is the corner 3, and we have shot 0. And with the sets we have seen so far, we won't take many. My only hope is that things will grow from what ee have seen. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26085
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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K2 wrote: | Mike Brown - Master cleanser of all things triangle
Mike D'Antoni - Showtime 2.0
Byron 'Antom Scott - Showtime 1.0 guy inherits some Showtime 2.0 guys and works them like he got worked in the 80s |
Mike Brown ran triangle,4 out 1 in as well as early Spurs 'twin towers' sets. |
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Hard_Butter Franchise Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2012 Posts: 12223 Location: The Two One Three
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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Where's Ed Davis, Byron?
Why you no likey Randle? _________________ The butter's hard and the eggs are chillin' in the dark.
Kiss my Converse. |
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