MVP type... but won't win it... Kobe will. _________________ "Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it."
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 2500 Location: Inland Empire
Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:09 pm Post subject:
Vancouver Fan wrote:
Drifts wrote:
MVP type... but won't win it... Kobe will.
BOOM. That just happened.
Doubt it, but for Ss and Gs that would be awesome this year!
Bye. _________________ "This trophy removes the most odious sentence in the English Language. It can never be said again that 'the Lakers have never beaten the Celtics.'" -Dr. Jerry Buss (1985) R.I.P., 33 x M.V.O.
This - he had no clear-cut #2 when he was on the Magic beasting as a youngin'. Nelson squeaked into an All-Star berth in a Mo Williams-ish fashion, Rashard and Hedo did their thing and they had good role-players and backups who could all hit from deep, but that team and style was tailor-made for Dwight. Harden's usage rate is among the highest in the league and aside from cleanup duty there's not room for Dwight to beast on offense really, aside from easy feeds, tip-ins and alley oops. We've all seen what happens when he tries to post up and play like a back to the basket center.
He simply won't get the ball enough to replicate his Magic numbers, which would be his only chance at an MVP unless the Rockets go on some type of unexpected tear and/or Harden goes down for a significant period of time. DPOY isn't out of the question if he knows his role and plays up the defensive anchor.
Dwight reminds me of Kwame Brown in the post. Fumbling the ball, getting stripped, no post moves, undersized. He's really a power forward playing center. He can't do jack with his back to the basket.
Do these HOF big guys have ever been credited with teaching any of these young centers anything? I see Hakeem, Ewing, and Kareem teaching some young centers but no one really ever listens to them or develop any moves similar to the HOFs.
In Kareem's defense, working with Kandi and Keith Closs is a loser proposition. He did work with Vlade and Elden a couple years after retirement along with their participation in the Newell bigman camp. They improved in incremental steps. Vlade improved a lot after his rookie season to the point where he could be the 2nd best player in some of those 91 playoff gms. Their inconsistency and foul prone D made it easy for Dunleavy to interchange Vlade and Elden on a given night, but with Vlade in particular, the skill and confidence had definitely shown refinement from Year 1 to 2. Kareem could take at least some credit for their development because, even though they were still flawed years later, they were both very raw when they were drafted. Elden was a project for certain. _________________ GOAT MAGIC REEL SEDALE TRIBUTE EDDIE DONX!
Do these HOF big guys have ever been credited with teaching any of these young centers anything? I see Hakeem, Ewing, and Kareem teaching some young centers but no one really ever listens to them or develop any moves similar to the HOFs.
Many of these players simply didn't have the talent. Doesn't matter who coached them. However, some needed to be coached the right way at a younger age. It's like learning how to speak 8 languages fluently. Once you reach a certain age, it's probably not gonna happen - no matter how good the teacher is. _________________ Smrek 2, Nevitt 1, Barkley 0
Dwight reminds me of Kwame Brown in the post. Fumbling the ball, getting stripped, no post moves, undersized. He's really a power forward playing center. He can't do jack with his back to the basket.
He did. Kwame skills with good stats. Fumbler/bumbler. He was painful to watch.
One Rockets fan reacted particularly cogently to concerns over Howard’s inability to stamp his impact on games offensively: “You want him to step up offensively? Using which go-to moves and skills exactly? He has none.”
Some perspective: among players with at least 25 post touches this season, only Josh Smith and Jermaine O’Neal produce fewer points per post-up (per Synergy Sports via Sporting News). And yet Dwight wants the ball more on the block.
His continued refusal to embrace the pick-and-roll (where he and teammate James Harden are at their most dangerous) as his bread and butter greatly reduces Houston’s chance to create a free-flowing offense that maximises the strengths of its players. Despite being top 5 in pace, the Rockets are just 20th in assists as a team – down from 6th last season.
Their offense, much like the Lakers’ last year, has become self-stymied by a commitment to force feeding the rock to the ball-stopping Howard down low, team rhythm and watchability be damned.
Friend of the blog nonplayerzealot (of YouTube fame) neatly summarises: “Kevin Duckworth had a better post game than Dwight. He’s been completely uncloaked for how weak his mind and game are. His attitude is disgusting to me. You can tell just by looking at him that his only goal is self-comfort.”
For anyone in any doubt over his fecklessness as a post-up player, watch his struggles vs Spencer Hawes and Andrea Bargnani:
As bad as we are, we dodged a major bullet when this guy left. You cannot build a championship team around him if he insists on post touches.
One Rockets fan reacted particularly cogently to concerns over Howard’s inability to stamp his impact on games offensively: “You want him to step up offensively? Using which go-to moves and skills exactly? He has none.”
Some perspective: among players with at least 25 post touches this season, only Josh Smith and Jermaine O’Neal produce fewer points per post-up (per Synergy Sports via Sporting News). And yet Dwight wants the ball more on the block.
His continued refusal to embrace the pick-and-roll (where he and teammate James Harden are at their most dangerous) as his bread and butter greatly reduces Houston’s chance to create a free-flowing offense that maximises the strengths of its players. Despite being top 5 in pace, the Rockets are just 20th in assists as a team – down from 6th last season.
Their offense, much like the Lakers’ last year, has become self-stymied by a commitment to force feeding the rock to the ball-stopping Howard down low, team rhythm and watchability be damned.
Friend of the blog nonplayerzealot (of YouTube and LakersGround fame) neatly summarises: “Kevin Duckworth had a better post game than Dwight. He’s been completely uncloaked for how weak his mind and game are. His attitude is disgusting to me. You can tell just by looking at him that his only goal is self-comfort.”
Hey, thanks for the quote! I'm proud to be a source to your fair and balanced reporting on Dwight's fecklessness. I like my quote there. I must've been feeling particularly cogent. I wish I would've added the quip: "I DON'T like Ike!"
Having written about our old pals Vlade and Elden above, I'd like to argue that in their primes, short as they may have been, that even THEY had better post games than Dwight. Yes, Elden Campbell. On a weak side, he could actually back down most shorter PFs, score over them, or face up and shoot over them if he had the space. He did that over Kemp and Barkley. He learned how to use his height and bulk to his advantage. Only guy who really stole his lunch money consistently was Malone, and it was largely because he couldn't use his advantages against him, but it did show that he played the low post -and- with his back to the basket in the correct ways. He had small Kobe hands and fumbled a bit himself, but not nearly as much as Dwight has his whole career. Elden also improved in steps until he plateaued in 97, at the point of scoring 40 against Ewing. There are still aspects to Dwight's game that he has never improved upon. That's not the hallmark of an MVP, Mr. Akeem Abdul-Olajuwon. He wasn't born with your gifts. Imagine Dwight vs Hakeem in a 7 gm series at Hakeem's peak. If Hakeem could do what he did to Patrick & Davo, imagine what he'd do to Dwight. Patrick & Davo are men. Dwight is less than.
PS: I watched a few mins of the Lakes' gm vs Sac and my boy Jeremy was puttin in work. He hit a ridiculous fallaway attempt after dribbling in a 360 circle around the key, shot it across his body with a defender coming at him. A shot Kobe himself would attempt and make. Jeremy RULES! Just wait til he and Kobe and Swaggy are on the court at the same time. That'll be what I consider entertainment. _________________ GOAT MAGIC REEL SEDALE TRIBUTE EDDIE DONX!
Last edited by non-player zealot on Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:52 am; edited 1 time in total
One Rockets fan reacted particularly cogently to concerns over Howard’s inability to stamp his impact on games offensively: “You want him to step up offensively? Using which go-to moves and skills exactly? He has none.”
Some perspective: among players with at least 25 post touches this season, only Josh Smith and Jermaine O’Neal produce fewer points per post-up (per Synergy Sports via Sporting News). And yet Dwight wants the ball more on the block.
His continued refusal to embrace the pick-and-roll (where he and teammate James Harden are at their most dangerous) as his bread and butter greatly reduces Houston’s chance to create a free-flowing offense that maximises the strengths of its players. Despite being top 5 in pace, the Rockets are just 20th in assists as a team – down from 6th last season.
Their offense, much like the Lakers’ last year, has become self-stymied by a commitment to force feeding the rock to the ball-stopping Howard down low, team rhythm and watchability be damned.
Friend of the blog nonplayerzealot (of YouTube and LakersGround fame) neatly summarises: “Kevin Duckworth had a better post game than Dwight. He’s been completely uncloaked for how weak his mind and game are. His attitude is disgusting to me. You can tell just by looking at him that his only goal is self-comfort.”
Hey, thanks for the quote! I'm proud to be a source to your fair and balanced reporting on Dwight's fecklessness. I like my quote there. I must've been feeling particularly cogent. I wish I would've added the quip: "I DON'T like Ike!"
Having written about our old pals Vlade and Elden above, I'd like to argue that in their primes, short as they may have been, that even THEY had better post games than Dwight. Yes, Elden Campbell. On a weak side, he could actually back down most shorter PFs, score over them, or face up and shoot over them if he had the space. He did that over Kemp and Barkley. He learned how to use his height and bulk to his advantage. Only guy who really stole his lunch money consistently was Malone, and it was largely because he couldn't use his advantages against him, but it did show that he played the low post -and- with his back to the basket in the correct ways. He had small Kobe hands and fumbled a bit himself, but not nearly as much as Dwight has his whole career. Elden also improved in steps until he plateaued in 97, at the point of scoring 40 against Ewing. There are still aspects to Dwight's game that he has never improved upon. That's not the hallmark of an MVP, Mr. Akeem Abdul-Olajuwon. He wasn't born with your gifts. Imagine Dwight vs Hakeem in a 7 gm series at Hakeem's peak. If Hakeem could do what he did to Patrick & Davo, imagine what he'd do to Dwight. Patrick & Davo are men. Dwight is less than.
PS: I watched a few mins of the Lakes' gm vs Sac and my boy Jeremy was puttin in work. He hit a ridiculous fallaway attempt after dribbling in a 360 circle around the key, shot it across his body with a defender coming at him. A shot Kobe himself would attempt and make. Jeremy RULES! Just wait til he and Kobe and Swaggy are on the court at the same time. That'll be what I consider entertainment.
Ah, before there was Kwame hands, there was Elden hands.
You have that game compadre? I remember Elden could have won the game either at the end of regulation or the first OT. Drop step, beat Ewing and blew the freaking layup. It was an NBA on NBC game.
Ah, before there was Kwame hands, there was Elden hands.
You have that game compadre? I remember Elden could have won the game either at the end of regulation or the first OT. Drop step, beat Ewing and blew the freaking layup. It was an NBA on NBC game.
Remember Elden actually hit a trey to tie the game and then missed that gimme. Earlier in the game, one of the Knicks, maybe Starks, hit a shot that bounced on top of the backboard and then 47 times on the rim. I'm sure I wasn't dying to keep that one for posterity, but I do have Elden's 38 pt gm at Wash (Gheorghey Muresan and Webb/Juwan). That was the next gm after NY. I have plenty of gms where Elden manned up in pursuit of his contract. There were nights where he approached "dominant". The last gm at the Gaaahden was one. Re-watched the gm at Sac where Magic got his 10K assist, pass to Elden. He was 29/11/5 blocks. Big Boii game. In the short lived Dwight Era, it was sad for all of us to realize that some of our much maligned and inconsistent guys like Elden and certainly Drew were competent in the low post when they wanted to be, back to the basket, and with a serviceable 10-15' perimeter shot. Certainly Vlade could be lumped in there. Pau, frequently called Ga-soft, without question was greater than Dwight in the post, even while getting pushed around from time to time.
Dwight was a fumbler/bumbler with very few go-to moves beside the awkward jumphook and the spin move baseline for a dunk. He needed to execute that move so badly that he hooked the opponent with his elbow as much as possible, often getting called for it. He was certainly no James or Earvin on that move. While his athleticism was hampered by his recovery, sadder than his loss of vertical power, he was slowed significantly. He looked like an athletic freak bodywise, but it just didn't translate to in-game play. Unfortunately, he was coddled because he was going to be a FA. I guess you could say the coaches and/or org had to, but what are you gonna do? Fuggedaboudit... _________________ GOAT MAGIC REEL SEDALE TRIBUTE EDDIE DONX!
Last edited by non-player zealot on Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:07 pm; edited 5 times in total
Ah, before there was Kwame hands, there was Elden hands.
You have that game compadre? I remember Elden could have won the game either at the end of regulation or the first OT. Drop step, beat Ewing and blew the freaking layup. It was an NBA on NBC game.
Remember Elden actually hit a trey to tie the game and then missed that gimme. Earlier in the game, one of the Knicks, maybe Starks, hit a shot that bounced on top of the backboard and then 47 times on the rim. I'm sure I wasn't dying to keep that one for posterity, but I do have Elden's 38 pt gm at Wash (Gheorghey Muresan and Webb/Juwan). That was the next gm after NY. I have plenty of gms where Elden manned up in pursuit of his contract. There were nights where he approached "dominant". The last gm at the Gaaahden was one. Re-watched the gm at Sac where Magic got his 10K assist, pass to Elden. He was 29/11/5 blocks. Big Boii game. In the short lived Dwight Era, it was sad for all of us to realize that some of our much maligned and inconsistent guys like Elden and certainly Drew were competent in the low post when they wanted to be, back to the basket, and with a serviceable 10-15' perimeter shot. Certainly Vlade could be lumped in there. Pau, frequently called Ga-soft, without question was greater than Dwight in the post, even while getting pushed around from time to time.
Dwight was a fumbler/bumbler with very few go-to moves beside the awkward jumphook and the spin move baseline for a dunk. He needed to execute that move so badly that he hooked the opponent with his elbow as much as possible, often getting called for it. He was certainly no James or Earvin on that move. While his athleticism was hampered by his recovery, sadder than his loss of vertical power, he was slowed significantly. He looked like an athletic freak bodywise, but it just didn't translate to in-game play. Unfortunately, he was coddled because he was going to be a FA. I guess you could say the coaches and/or org had to, but what are you gonna do? Fuggedaboudit...
Aw yeah, I remember that 3. He was balling up a storm for those two months Shaq was out. The press questioned good ole Delbert about Elden's play and he compared Elden to the Phantom of the Opera. It didn't matter the center, the system was the same to paraphrase him.
Ridiculous. That squad on a pure talent level was gd historic when you factor in youth/athleticism. People were talking in a thread about potential Kobe running mates during his prime and a lot referenced Iggy as a potential Scottie to Kobe's MJ. Prime Eddie was better in EVERY facet except facilitating. Better defender (lowest FG% MJ shot against), longer, better 3 point shooter, better slasher, faster end to end.
Ridiculous. That squad on a pure talent level was gd historic when you factor in youth/athleticism. People were talking in a thread about potential Kobe running mates during his prime and a lot referenced Iggy as a potential Scottie to Kobe's MJ. Prime Eddie was better in EVERY facet except facilitating. Better defender (lowest FG% MJ shot against), longer, better 3 point shooter, better slasher, faster end to end.
Haha. Yeah, I could imagine winning with that group. Just one year too late to get Phil. Nick arguing with Del during a playoff game and "Cancun!" were the last straw. We got rock bottom value for him, although Ty Lue was a rascal against AI, very amusing to watch AI pissed off at the clone with the same hairstyle that was all over his ass. West loved Eddie Jones. I believe he was more proud of that pick (10th, best pick after the 3rd pick) than the Kobe pick. He was on BSPN Up Close just glowing about Eddie. Didn't wanna give him up, but alas, he was pressured by Dr. Buss. I guess they didn't want to pay max money for a swingman lest he was a superstar, they wanted to pay for a bigman.
Del's teams would've been serious title contenders under Phil with an offense that didn't predictably dump into Shaq time after time. As happened in 2000, they all would've listened, Nick included. I liked Horry and Fox. Bill Walton called them the "cerebral forwards". They were actually a couple of slugs in the RS, but once you start stocking up on players who are all starter quality, you're going to get unpredictable production from any one of them on any given night and most teams can't counter that. It's like Horry or Fisher vs most of the West teams. The opponents were stretched thin enough just trying to contain Shaq and Kobe. Then Fisher scores 18 or something and Fox pumps in a dozen. Shaw hits a couple big 3s, Ho Grant has a good game out of nowhere, Ty Lue hounds AI, etc.
Same thing happened later in 2009/10. Lamar Odom, dude. He was the Elden of that era. When he was playing well, shhheeei...chalk up the W. We didn't even need Drew when Lamar was beating slower defenders to the rim and Trev was flying around midcourt for steals against jaboneys like Melo. Very difficult to beat youthful, athletic depth surrounding a bona fide superstar and especially when all the game winning clutch shots are going your way too.
It's hard not to get misty watching the 2008 team after they ditched Kwame (the cigar store Indian). They had Pau, Trev, Lamar, gimpy Drew, Fisher, Ronny, Shan. Ridiculous. We'll probably never see the likes of that again with Mitch on TW saying "we don't like the current CBA that's made to create as much parity as possible." He put it out there. We got stuck in the back like Gyp while we were taking a leak and singing Barney Google. Well...maybe not exactly like that, but we did get a knife in the back after we apparently did something wrong by being competent for decades. We were standing on the throats of Cleveland, Milwaukee, Atlanta, and Sacramento for too long. Something had to be done to bring us down to the mean. _________________ GOAT MAGIC REEL SEDALE TRIBUTE EDDIE DONX!
This - he had no clear-cut #2 when he was on the Magic beasting as a youngin'. Nelson squeaked into an All-Star berth in a Mo Williams-ish fashion, Rashard and Hedo did their thing and they had good role-players and backups who could all hit from deep, but that team and style was tailor-made for Dwight. Harden's usage rate is among the highest in the league and aside from cleanup duty there's not room for Dwight to beast on offense really, aside from easy feeds, tip-ins and alley oops. We've all seen what happens when he tries to post up and play like a back to the basket center.
He simply won't get the ball enough to replicate his Magic numbers, which would be his only chance at an MVP unless the Rockets go on some type of unexpected tear and/or Harden goes down for a significant period of time. DPOY isn't out of the question if he knows his role and plays up the defensive anchor.
The rockets along with dwight are idiots and self sabotuers.
Lin with the knicks was tearing it up running pick n rolls all day long
james harden with his dribbling ability, passing ability, shooting ability and the fear of him attacking and getting yet another bogus foul call in his favor tells me that team would've been deadly enough to get to the finals just on the pick n r alone. but dummy dwight and the rockets for catering to that clown is what killed it. sure harden plays no defense. but thats aside from the point. lol. if he dropped 20+ a night with 8 assists. you would forget he played no defense like you do when watching curry.
Dwight reminds me of Kwame Brown in the post. Fumbling the ball, getting stripped, no post moves, undersized. He's really a power forward playing center. He can't do jack with his back to the basket.
I truly believe Kwame has more talent than Dwight. The problem with Kwame has always been a mental thing. Kwame knows what moves to make and looks good starting his moves but he panics and can't finish. Dwight on the other hand, looks totally uncoordinated on offense and his offense arsenal is so crude its really offensive.
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