|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
No. 17
Star Player
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 7040
Location: L.A
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
nickuku
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2010
Posts: 7844
Location: Orange County
|
 Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Lets see how long people like Reza Aslan can keep making excuses.
_________________
Don't let perfect be the enemy of good |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KobeBryantCliffordBrown
Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 6429
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I can't imagine the zealotry that leads to that type of thinking. When I saw that I immediately thought of my daughters and how one of the things they know for sure is that I would never hurt them. What a sick extremist bastardization of that religion.
_________________
“It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ani007
Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 507
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| nickuku wrote: | | Lets see how long people like Reza Aslan can keep making excuses. |
You say excuses, I say a plea to stop generalizing. Nowhere does he try to excuse, rationalize, or condone behavior like this.
Unless you agree that Islam is the mother lode of bad ideas....I'm Indian and I've read of honor killings and obviously rape occuring in india every time you blink.....I'm not going to use that to start making sweeping generalizations about Indians.
But its really easy these days to go on the pulpit and declare Islam as wrong. Muslims as bad. Why not attack these people, countries, parties, groups, individual acts.....why feed into the polarization the extremists probably welcome....as it fits their we (all muslims) against everyone else.
I've just heard enough of, "I'm not a racist, but...." Or "that Muslim (bleep) can't sit in my car" when I was going out with a Muslim girl in high school from my dad (hes spent a lifetime hating muslims).
Would imagine that it just pushes the moderates into extremism....feel sad for Punjabi's who wear turbans and were harrased post 9/11 and massacred in their temple in Wisconsin. I feel like the media is fanning the flames of ignorance and hate.
Look, I'm not under the delusion that women in many Muslim countries can drop the top to their convertible, smoke a doobie, blast one direction with their bf in the car, sitting in a bikini revealing tattoos and having a drink.
And as someone who champions women's rights I find the gross violation and abuse of them despicable.
But I still don't agree with bill Maher's sentiment or the manner in which he expressed it which is the pervasive attitude towards Islam/muslims today.
Doesn't seem conducive or productive toward building or coming together. Feeds into fear. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KobeBryantCliffordBrown
Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 6429
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ani007 wrote: | | nickuku wrote: | | Lets see how long people like Reza Aslan can keep making excuses. |
You say excuses, I say a plea to stop generalizing. Nowhere does he try to excuse, rationalize, or condone behavior like this.
Unless you agree that Islam is the mother lode of bad ideas....I'm Indian and I've read of honor killings and obviously sexual assault occuring in india every time you blink.....I'm not going to use that to start making sweeping generalizations about Indians.
But its really easy these days to go on the pulpit and declare Islam as wrong. Muslims as bad. Why not attack these people, countries, parties, groups, individual acts.....why feed into the polarization the extremists probably welcome....as it fits their we (all muslims) against everyone else.
I've just heard enough of, "I'm not a racist, but...." Or "that Muslim (bleep) can't sit in my car" when I was going out with a Muslim girl in high school from my dad (hes spent a lifetime hating muslims).
Would imagine that it just pushes the moderates into extremism....feel sad for Punjabi's who wear turbans and were harrased post 9/11 and massacred in their temple in Wisconsin. I feel like the media is fanning the flames of ignorance and hate.
Look, I'm not under the delusion that women in many Muslim countries can drop the top to their convertible, smoke a doobie, blast one direction with their bf in the car, sitting in a bikini revealing tattoos and having a drink.
And as someone who champions women's rights I find the gross violation and abuse of them despicable.
But I still don't agree with bill Maher's sentiment or the manner in which he expressed it which is the pervasive attitude towards Islam/muslims today.
Doesn't seem conducive or productive toward building or coming together. Feeds into fear. |
_________________
“It took many years of vomiting up all the filth I’d been taught about myself, and half-believed, before I was able to walk on the earth as though I had a right to be here.”
― James Baldwin, Collected Essays |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nickuku
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2010
Posts: 7844
Location: Orange County
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ani007 wrote: | | nickuku wrote: | | Lets see how long people like Reza Aslan can keep making excuses. |
You say excuses, I say a plea to stop generalizing. Nowhere does he try to excuse, rationalize, or condone behavior like this.
Unless you agree that Islam is the mother lode of bad ideas....I'm Indian and I've read of honor killings and obviously sexual assault occuring in india every time you blink.....I'm not going to use that to start making sweeping generalizations about Indians.
But its really easy these days to go on the pulpit and declare Islam as wrong. Muslims as bad. Why not attack these people, countries, parties, groups, individual acts.....why feed into the polarization the extremists probably welcome....as it fits their we (all muslims) against everyone else.
I've just heard enough of, "I'm not a racist, but...." Or "that Muslim (bleep) can't sit in my car" when I was going out with a Muslim girl in high school from my dad (hes spent a lifetime hating muslims).
Would imagine that it just pushes the moderates into extremism....feel sad for Punjabi's who wear turbans and were harrased post 9/11 and massacred in their temple in Wisconsin. I feel like the media is fanning the flames of ignorance and hate.
Look, I'm not under the delusion that women in many Muslim countries can drop the top to their convertible, smoke a doobie, blast one direction with their bf in the car, sitting in a bikini revealing tattoos and having a drink.
And as someone who champions women's rights I find the gross violation and abuse of them despicable.
But I still don't agree with bill Maher's sentiment or the manner in which he expressed it which is the pervasive attitude towards Islam/muslims today.
Doesn't seem conducive or productive toward building or coming together. Feeds into fear. |
I agree that we should stop generalizing but in his CNN interview he threw out a bunch of stats that when taken a closer look at are factually incorrect. This does nothing but provide a cover for extremist muslims. Its not just this time either. In the past hes been dishonest about his credentials. The guy can't even pick one religion and stick with it. First he was Muslim, then Christian and now Muslim again? What's next?
_________________
Don't let perfect be the enemy of good |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
akk7
Star Player
Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 3013
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| nickuku wrote: | | ani007 wrote: | | nickuku wrote: | | Lets see how long people like Reza Aslan can keep making excuses. |
You say excuses, I say a plea to stop generalizing. Nowhere does he try to excuse, rationalize, or condone behavior like this.
Unless you agree that Islam is the mother lode of bad ideas....I'm Indian and I've read of honor killings and obviously sexual assault occuring in india every time you blink.....I'm not going to use that to start making sweeping generalizations about Indians.
But its really easy these days to go on the pulpit and declare Islam as wrong. Muslims as bad. Why not attack these people, countries, parties, groups, individual acts.....why feed into the polarization the extremists probably welcome....as it fits their we (all muslims) against everyone else.
I've just heard enough of, "I'm not a racist, but...." Or "that Muslim (bleep) can't sit in my car" when I was going out with a Muslim girl in high school from my dad (hes spent a lifetime hating muslims).
Would imagine that it just pushes the moderates into extremism....feel sad for Punjabi's who wear turbans and were harrased post 9/11 and massacred in their temple in Wisconsin. I feel like the media is fanning the flames of ignorance and hate.
Look, I'm not under the delusion that women in many Muslim countries can drop the top to their convertible, smoke a doobie, blast one direction with their bf in the car, sitting in a bikini revealing tattoos and having a drink.
And as someone who champions women's rights I find the gross violation and abuse of them despicable.
But I still don't agree with bill Maher's sentiment or the manner in which he expressed it which is the pervasive attitude towards Islam/muslims today.
Doesn't seem conducive or productive toward building or coming together. Feeds into fear. |
I agree that we should stop generalizing but in his CNN interview he threw out a bunch of stats that when taken a closer look at are factually incorrect. This does nothing but provide a cover for extremist muslims. Its not just this time either. In the past hes been dishonest about his credentials. The guy can't even pick one religion and stick with it. First he was Muslim, then Christian and now Muslim again? What's next? |
Could you further elaborate what was factually incorrect and how he has been dishonest in the past?
I ask because I read a rebuttal to that video that went viral, since I take everything with a grain of salt/know nothing is ever black and white, but the rebuttal was from like some atheist blog  so once again grain of salt. So what exactly was factually incorrect and what is his dishonest past? I know people who love him.
And ani007 bravo, you basically summed up my thoughts on a lot of things in this world. But 10 posts since 2008, you can't be trusted. 
And anyway I don't think the majority of Muslims would condone this type of actions. You can't generalize an entire religion, or a race, or a culture, or a group of people based on the actions of a few. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
shansen008
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 3568
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| akk7 wrote: | | nickuku wrote: | | ani007 wrote: | | nickuku wrote: | | Lets see how long people like Reza Aslan can keep making excuses. |
You say excuses, I say a plea to stop generalizing. Nowhere does he try to excuse, rationalize, or condone behavior like this.
Unless you agree that Islam is the mother lode of bad ideas....I'm Indian and I've read of honor killings and obviously sexual assault occuring in india every time you blink.....I'm not going to use that to start making sweeping generalizations about Indians.
But its really easy these days to go on the pulpit and declare Islam as wrong. Muslims as bad. Why not attack these people, countries, parties, groups, individual acts.....why feed into the polarization the extremists probably welcome....as it fits their we (all muslims) against everyone else.
I've just heard enough of, "I'm not a racist, but...." Or "that Muslim (bleep) can't sit in my car" when I was going out with a Muslim girl in high school from my dad (hes spent a lifetime hating muslims).
Would imagine that it just pushes the moderates into extremism....feel sad for Punjabi's who wear turbans and were harrased post 9/11 and massacred in their temple in Wisconsin. I feel like the media is fanning the flames of ignorance and hate.
Look, I'm not under the delusion that women in many Muslim countries can drop the top to their convertible, smoke a doobie, blast one direction with their bf in the car, sitting in a bikini revealing tattoos and having a drink.
And as someone who champions women's rights I find the gross violation and abuse of them despicable.
But I still don't agree with bill Maher's sentiment or the manner in which he expressed it which is the pervasive attitude towards Islam/muslims today.
Doesn't seem conducive or productive toward building or coming together. Feeds into fear. |
I agree that we should stop generalizing but in his CNN interview he threw out a bunch of stats that when taken a closer look at are factually incorrect. This does nothing but provide a cover for extremist muslims. Its not just this time either. In the past hes been dishonest about his credentials. The guy can't even pick one religion and stick with it. First he was Muslim, then Christian and now Muslim again? What's next? |
Could you further elaborate what was factually incorrect and how he has been dishonest in the past?
I ask because I read a rebuttal to that video that went viral, since I take everything with a grain of salt/know nothing is ever black and white, but the rebuttal was from like some atheist blog so once again grain of salt. So what exactly was factually incorrect and what is his dishonest past? I know people who love him.
And ani007 bravo, you basically summed up my thoughts on a lot of things in this world. But 10 posts since 2008, you can't be trusted.
And anyway I don't think the majority of Muslims would condone this type of actions. You can't generalize an entire religion, or a race, or a culture, or a group of people based on the actions of a few. |
Really? The left here in America does it all the time. Im labeled a racist because some guys that wore wigs and frilly long sleeved shirts had slaves back in the day.
What i see is that the "extremists" are just simply practicing Islam for the most part word for word. We should stop calling them extremists, and start calling them Orthodox. The "moderates", are simply those who enjoy the peaceful parts of their book but ignore the rest, or they are simply practicing taqiyya. I liken them to LDS members who drink coffee and have sex out of wedlock but still claim they are LDS, or Catholics that dont believe in the trinity. Its all fine and well to call your religion the religion of peace, but when some estimate that the number of so called "extremists" could be as high as 1 in 4 muslims, its time to stop with the PC (bleep) and call a spade a spade.
When a christian extremist blows up an abortion clinic, ALL christians Westboro baptists excluded ( ), will condemn that. Where are moderate muslims? Still crickets from this crowd. Where are all the moderate muslims fighting ISIS? Why does it take the US to form a coalition. Why are other muslim countries not clamoring over one another to sign up for the support they need to rid their ranks of this "extremist" virus amongst them?
TAQIYYA is your answer. They are taught to lie to non believers. Only when they are the majority or have a strategic advantage will they be truthful. This is why you have extremists all over the world coming out of the woodwork now. They feel the tide is turning in their favor and they dont have a need to be in the closet about their beliefs any longer. Anjem Choudary is a great example of this. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LVLAKERFAN
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 5347
Location: United States
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| shansen008 wrote: | | akk7 wrote: | | nickuku wrote: | | ani007 wrote: | | nickuku wrote: | | Lets see how long people like Reza Aslan can keep making excuses. |
You say excuses, I say a plea to stop generalizing. Nowhere does he try to excuse, rationalize, or condone behavior like this.
Unless you agree that Islam is the mother lode of bad ideas....I'm Indian and I've read of honor killings and obviously sexual assault occuring in india every time you blink.....I'm not going to use that to start making sweeping generalizations about Indians.
But its really easy these days to go on the pulpit and declare Islam as wrong. Muslims as bad. Why not attack these people, countries, parties, groups, individual acts.....why feed into the polarization the extremists probably welcome....as it fits their we (all muslims) against everyone else.
I've just heard enough of, "I'm not a racist, but...." Or "that Muslim (bleep) can't sit in my car" when I was going out with a Muslim girl in high school from my dad (hes spent a lifetime hating muslims).
Would imagine that it just pushes the moderates into extremism....feel sad for Punjabi's who wear turbans and were harrased post 9/11 and massacred in their temple in Wisconsin. I feel like the media is fanning the flames of ignorance and hate.
Look, I'm not under the delusion that women in many Muslim countries can drop the top to their convertible, smoke a doobie, blast one direction with their bf in the car, sitting in a bikini revealing tattoos and having a drink.
And as someone who champions women's rights I find the gross violation and abuse of them despicable.
But I still don't agree with bill Maher's sentiment or the manner in which he expressed it which is the pervasive attitude towards Islam/muslims today.
Doesn't seem conducive or productive toward building or coming together. Feeds into fear. |
I agree that we should stop generalizing but in his CNN interview he threw out a bunch of stats that when taken a closer look at are factually incorrect. This does nothing but provide a cover for extremist muslims. Its not just this time either. In the past hes been dishonest about his credentials. The guy can't even pick one religion and stick with it. First he was Muslim, then Christian and now Muslim again? What's next? |
Could you further elaborate what was factually incorrect and how he has been dishonest in the past?
I ask because I read a rebuttal to that video that went viral, since I take everything with a grain of salt/know nothing is ever black and white, but the rebuttal was from like some atheist blog so once again grain of salt. So what exactly was factually incorrect and what is his dishonest past? I know people who love him.
And ani007 bravo, you basically summed up my thoughts on a lot of things in this world. But 10 posts since 2008, you can't be trusted.
And anyway I don't think the majority of Muslims would condone this type of actions. You can't generalize an entire religion, or a race, or a culture, or a group of people based on the actions of a few. |
Really? The left here in America does it all the time. Im labeled a racist because some guys that wore wigs and frilly long sleeved shirts had slaves back in the day.
What i see is that the "extremists" are just simply practicing Islam for the most part word for word. We should stop calling them extremists, and start calling them Orthodox. The "moderates", are simply those who enjoy the peaceful parts of their book but ignore the rest, or they are simply practicing taqiyya. I liken them to LDS members who drink coffee and have sex out of wedlock but still claim they are LDS, or Catholics that dont believe in the trinity. Its all fine and well to call your religion the religion of peace, but when some estimate that the number of so called "extremists" could be as high as 1 in 4 muslims, its time to stop with the PC (bleep) and call a spade a spade.
When a christian extremist blows up an abortion clinic, ALL christians Westboro baptists excluded ( ), will condemn that. Where are moderate muslims? Still crickets from this crowd. Where are all the moderate muslims fighting ISIS? Why does it take the US to form a coalition. Why are other muslim countries not clamoring over one another to sign up for the support they need to rid their ranks of this "extremist" virus amongst them?
TAQIYYA is your answer. They are taught to lie to non believers. Only when they are the majority or have a strategic advantage will they be truthful. This is why you have extremists all over the world coming out of the woodwork now. They feel the tide is turning in their favor and they dont have a need to be in the closet about their beliefs any longer. Anjem Choudary is a great example of this. |
So you're a racist? Now your post makes sense. Every time a black person robs/kills a white person or attacks a cop, ALL black people should condemn it on behalf of black people. Every time someone gets kidnapped in Mexico, ALL Mexicans should start a neighborhood watch, condemn the drug cartels actions and hunt them down.
Hate is hate.
Just cause some terrorist groups are suckering a bunch of losers into committing violent acts and declaring it in the name of a religion, doesn't make everyone a terrorist. You said "someone" estimated that 1 out of 4 Muslims is an extremist. About 1 out of 4 people in the world are estimated to be Muslims. If there are 400,000,000 extremists out of 1,600,000,000 Muslims, they must be doing a crappy job of being extreme. I wonder if the counted babies.
I see these so called "Muslim" terrorists killing more Muslims than I see them killing Non-Muslims, so I don't see how really makes any sense. Everyone has their own agenda.
I'm Muslim.
_________________
SCHROEDER/CARUSO/COOK
MATTHEWS/KCP/THT
LEBRON/KUZMA/BABYGIANIS
AD/MORRIS/DUDLEY
GASOL/HARRELL/TINKLE
Coachs:Vogel/Kidd |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
akk7
Star Player
Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 3013
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LVLAKERFAN wrote: | | shansen008 wrote: | | akk7 wrote: | | nickuku wrote: | | ani007 wrote: | | nickuku wrote: | | Lets see how long people like Reza Aslan can keep making excuses. |
You say excuses, I say a plea to stop generalizing. Nowhere does he try to excuse, rationalize, or condone behavior like this.
Unless you agree that Islam is the mother lode of bad ideas....I'm Indian and I've read of honor killings and obviously sexual assault occuring in india every time you blink.....I'm not going to use that to start making sweeping generalizations about Indians.
But its really easy these days to go on the pulpit and declare Islam as wrong. Muslims as bad. Why not attack these people, countries, parties, groups, individual acts.....why feed into the polarization the extremists probably welcome....as it fits their we (all muslims) against everyone else.
I've just heard enough of, "I'm not a racist, but...." Or "that Muslim (bleep) can't sit in my car" when I was going out with a Muslim girl in high school from my dad (hes spent a lifetime hating muslims).
Would imagine that it just pushes the moderates into extremism....feel sad for Punjabi's who wear turbans and were harrased post 9/11 and massacred in their temple in Wisconsin. I feel like the media is fanning the flames of ignorance and hate.
Look, I'm not under the delusion that women in many Muslim countries can drop the top to their convertible, smoke a doobie, blast one direction with their bf in the car, sitting in a bikini revealing tattoos and having a drink.
And as someone who champions women's rights I find the gross violation and abuse of them despicable.
But I still don't agree with bill Maher's sentiment or the manner in which he expressed it which is the pervasive attitude towards Islam/muslims today.
Doesn't seem conducive or productive toward building or coming together. Feeds into fear. |
I agree that we should stop generalizing but in his CNN interview he threw out a bunch of stats that when taken a closer look at are factually incorrect. This does nothing but provide a cover for extremist muslims. Its not just this time either. In the past hes been dishonest about his credentials. The guy can't even pick one religion and stick with it. First he was Muslim, then Christian and now Muslim again? What's next? |
Could you further elaborate what was factually incorrect and how he has been dishonest in the past?
I ask because I read a rebuttal to that video that went viral, since I take everything with a grain of salt/know nothing is ever black and white, but the rebuttal was from like some atheist blog so once again grain of salt. So what exactly was factually incorrect and what is his dishonest past? I know people who love him.
And ani007 bravo, you basically summed up my thoughts on a lot of things in this world. But 10 posts since 2008, you can't be trusted.
And anyway I don't think the majority of Muslims would condone this type of actions. You can't generalize an entire religion, or a race, or a culture, or a group of people based on the actions of a few. |
Really? The left here in America does it all the time. Im labeled a racist because some guys that wore wigs and frilly long sleeved shirts had slaves back in the day.
What i see is that the "extremists" are just simply practicing Islam for the most part word for word. We should stop calling them extremists, and start calling them Orthodox. The "moderates", are simply those who enjoy the peaceful parts of their book but ignore the rest, or they are simply practicing taqiyya. I liken them to LDS members who drink coffee and have sex out of wedlock but still claim they are LDS, or Catholics that dont believe in the trinity. Its all fine and well to call your religion the religion of peace, but when some estimate that the number of so called "extremists" could be as high as 1 in 4 muslims, its time to stop with the PC (bleep) and call a spade a spade.
When a christian extremist blows up an abortion clinic, ALL christians Westboro baptists excluded ( ), will condemn that. Where are moderate muslims? Still crickets from this crowd. Where are all the moderate muslims fighting ISIS? Why does it take the US to form a coalition. Why are other muslim countries not clamoring over one another to sign up for the support they need to rid their ranks of this "extremist" virus amongst them?
TAQIYYA is your answer. They are taught to lie to non believers. Only when they are the majority or have a strategic advantage will they be truthful. This is why you have extremists all over the world coming out of the woodwork now. They feel the tide is turning in their favor and they dont have a need to be in the closet about their beliefs any longer. Anjem Choudary is a great example of this. |
So you're a racist? Now your post makes sense. Every time a black person robs/kills a white person or attacks a cop, ALL black people should condemn it on behalf of black people. Every time someone gets kidnapped in Mexico, ALL Mexicans should start a neighborhood watch, condemn the drug cartels actions and hunt them down.
Hate is hate.
Just cause some terrorist groups are suckering a bunch of losers into committing violent acts and declaring it in the name of a religion, doesn't make everyone a terrorist. You said "someone" estimated that 1 out of 4 Muslims is an extremist. About 1 out of 4 people in the world are estimated to be Muslims. If there are 400,000,000 out of 1,600,000,000 Muslims, they must be doing a crappy job of being extreme. I wonder if the counted babies.
I see these so called "Muslim" terrorists killing more Muslims than I see them killing Non-Muslims, so I don't see how really makes any sense. Everyone has their own agenda.
I'm Muslim. |
I was going to ignore the post and just keep watching Julius do his thing out there, but I do need to respond.
Who calls you a racist exactly for being white? When does the left call you a racist exactly?
You state these people are practicing Islam word for word rather than being extremist. What exactly do you mean by that. What specific words/verses/surahs/whatever are you talking about. I hear this a lot that these actions are stated in the Quran, but it has to be looked at in context. A lot of those violent things in the Quran are taken out of context. I'm not religious, and I'm positive these books are man made/made for those specific times, so during those times there were things included in the holy books about protecting oneself against an attack, but that's a digression. Anyway, there has been heinous actions done in part due to the use of religious texts (i.e. slavery). Sure, you can say those actions were conducted so long ago and people have smartened up, why aren't these extremist or as you call it orthodox muslism smartened up, but that's not totally correct. There's still wrongful actions occurring that have religion partially involved (example being the Palestine/Israel conflict), so it's not just Islam.
I think I read this on LG actually. The two big brothers caused their havoc already, it's Islams turn. It was a funny comment meant to be a joke, but there's a lot of truth to it. It's all cyclic. It's too narrow minded to just blame Islam immediately. Very Henry Abbottish
And you state moderate muslisms aren't condemning ISIS. I've actually seen the opposite. And I don't know where you go that 1/4 number from at all.
All in all, I stick by my statement and I don't think it's PC at all. You can't be generalizing an entire religion, people, race, whatever, by the actions of a few.
Nickuku I hope you see this and can elaborate on your Reza comment. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Oliver Reed
Star Player
Joined: 28 Sep 2014
Posts: 2626
Location: Globo Gym
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
Nothing is funnier then someone in 2014 saying how Christians in 1804 killed a bunch of people because of their beliefs(which by the way, is information they got from Wikipedia), to compare it with what Muslim extremists are doing now on tv, for everyone to see, while the "good" Muslims are sitting back and mostly saying nothing.
Regardless, the US had it's chance to end this misery with one full swoop just like Truman did when Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. Had Bush Jr wiped out Afghanistan, fear would have resonated throughout the world and the US would be the big stick again. Now, all we are is border jumper enablers and Muslim apologists.
Side note. Muslims kill more Muslims than any other religion. So, the sooner everyone realizes that none of this has anything to do with religion, race or ethnicity, will have a clear head and understand what truly needs to be done. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dvdrdiscs
Star Player
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 6274
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
History repeats itself.
Here we are in 2014, with more clarity than ever regarding atrocities committed in the past in the names of land, religion, and beliefs. But yet we still have people wanting to kill another group of people. The only difference is instead of them standing on a box in some town square, they're spouting their nonsense on the internet. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tlim
Star Player
Joined: 26 Jun 2002
Posts: 6649
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
I generally paint religion as bad as a whole.
Militarized/Extreme Muslims are taking center stage. We know this for a fact. Like Maher said, *90%* of Egyptian Muslims say that death is the proper penalty for leaving the Muslim religion. So wrong on so many levels.
Prosletyzing/Societal Religions. The ones that want to change the country to basically be run in the way they want it run. Prayer in school, teaching ID, evolution is bunk are the examples of these. These aren't militant except in the laws that they try to pass. e.g. Atheists can't put up a sign that says, "There is no god."
Zealotry (and there is a whole ton of it in religion to this day), makes you just stop using your frontal lobe, and these are just one of many examples that can go on forever. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NickF
Star Player
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 1946
Location: Caerbannog
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Oliver Reed wrote: | Nothing is funnier then someone in 2014 saying how Christians in 1804 killed a bunch of people because of their beliefs(which by the way, is information they got from Wikipedia), to compare it with what Muslim extremists are doing now on tv, for everyone to see, while the "good" Muslims are sitting back and mostly saying nothing.
|
Did all the "good" Christians stand up and say something the last time someone bombed an abortion clinic or murdered an abortion provider? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Oliver Reed
Star Player
Joined: 28 Sep 2014
Posts: 2626
Location: Globo Gym
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| NickF wrote: | | Oliver Reed wrote: | Nothing is funnier then someone in 2014 saying how Christians in 1804 killed a bunch of people because of their beliefs(which by the way, is information they got from Wikipedia), to compare it with what Muslim extremists are doing now on tv, for everyone to see, while the "good" Muslims are sitting back and mostly saying nothing.
|
Did all the "good" Christians stand up and say something the last time someone bombed an abortion clinic or murdered an abortion provider? |
First time I have heard about that situation. I also do not remember seeing those Christians going around with video cameras and chronicling themselves in front abortion clinics and beheading administration clerks and throwing dead fetus's in holes, threatening to do more with ski masks on. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NickF
Star Player
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 1946
Location: Caerbannog
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Oliver Reed wrote: | | NickF wrote: | | Oliver Reed wrote: | Nothing is funnier then someone in 2014 saying how Christians in 1804 killed a bunch of people because of their beliefs(which by the way, is information they got from Wikipedia), to compare it with what Muslim extremists are doing now on tv, for everyone to see, while the "good" Muslims are sitting back and mostly saying nothing.
|
Did all the "good" Christians stand up and say something the last time someone bombed an abortion clinic or murdered an abortion provider? |
First time I have heard about that situation. I also do not remember seeing those Christians going around with video cameras and chronicling themselves in front abortion clinics and beheading administration clerks and throwing dead fetus's in holes, threatening to do more with ski masks on. |
So you're claiming that you're so woefully uninformed that you are unaware that abortion providers have been shot to death by Christians? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
shansen008
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 3568
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LVLAKERFAN wrote: | | shansen008 wrote: | | akk7 wrote: | | nickuku wrote: | | ani007 wrote: | | nickuku wrote: | | Lets see how long people like Reza Aslan can keep making excuses. |
You say excuses, I say a plea to stop generalizing. Nowhere does he try to excuse, rationalize, or condone behavior like this.
Unless you agree that Islam is the mother lode of bad ideas....I'm Indian and I've read of honor killings and obviously sexual assault occuring in india every time you blink.....I'm not going to use that to start making sweeping generalizations about Indians.
But its really easy these days to go on the pulpit and declare Islam as wrong. Muslims as bad. Why not attack these people, countries, parties, groups, individual acts.....why feed into the polarization the extremists probably welcome....as it fits their we (all muslims) against everyone else.
I've just heard enough of, "I'm not a racist, but...." Or "that Muslim (bleep) can't sit in my car" when I was going out with a Muslim girl in high school from my dad (hes spent a lifetime hating muslims).
Would imagine that it just pushes the moderates into extremism....feel sad for Punjabi's who wear turbans and were harrased post 9/11 and massacred in their temple in Wisconsin. I feel like the media is fanning the flames of ignorance and hate.
Look, I'm not under the delusion that women in many Muslim countries can drop the top to their convertible, smoke a doobie, blast one direction with their bf in the car, sitting in a bikini revealing tattoos and having a drink.
And as someone who champions women's rights I find the gross violation and abuse of them despicable.
But I still don't agree with bill Maher's sentiment or the manner in which he expressed it which is the pervasive attitude towards Islam/muslims today.
Doesn't seem conducive or productive toward building or coming together. Feeds into fear. |
I agree that we should stop generalizing but in his CNN interview he threw out a bunch of stats that when taken a closer look at are factually incorrect. This does nothing but provide a cover for extremist muslims. Its not just this time either. In the past hes been dishonest about his credentials. The guy can't even pick one religion and stick with it. First he was Muslim, then Christian and now Muslim again? What's next? |
Could you further elaborate what was factually incorrect and how he has been dishonest in the past?
I ask because I read a rebuttal to that video that went viral, since I take everything with a grain of salt/know nothing is ever black and white, but the rebuttal was from like some atheist blog so once again grain of salt. So what exactly was factually incorrect and what is his dishonest past? I know people who love him.
And ani007 bravo, you basically summed up my thoughts on a lot of things in this world. But 10 posts since 2008, you can't be trusted.
And anyway I don't think the majority of Muslims would condone this type of actions. You can't generalize an entire religion, or a race, or a culture, or a group of people based on the actions of a few. |
Really? The left here in America does it all the time. Im labeled a racist because some guys that wore wigs and frilly long sleeved shirts had slaves back in the day.
What i see is that the "extremists" are just simply practicing Islam for the most part word for word. We should stop calling them extremists, and start calling them Orthodox. The "moderates", are simply those who enjoy the peaceful parts of their book but ignore the rest, or they are simply practicing taqiyya. I liken them to LDS members who drink coffee and have sex out of wedlock but still claim they are LDS, or Catholics that dont believe in the trinity. Its all fine and well to call your religion the religion of peace, but when some estimate that the number of so called "extremists" could be as high as 1 in 4 muslims, its time to stop with the PC (bleep) and call a spade a spade.
When a christian extremist blows up an abortion clinic, ALL christians Westboro baptists excluded ( ), will condemn that. Where are moderate muslims? Still crickets from this crowd. Where are all the moderate muslims fighting ISIS? Why does it take the US to form a coalition. Why are other muslim countries not clamoring over one another to sign up for the support they need to rid their ranks of this "extremist" virus amongst them?
TAQIYYA is your answer. They are taught to lie to non believers. Only when they are the majority or have a strategic advantage will they be truthful. This is why you have extremists all over the world coming out of the woodwork now. They feel the tide is turning in their favor and they dont have a need to be in the closet about their beliefs any longer. Anjem Choudary is a great example of this. |
So you're a racist? Now your post makes sense. Every time a black person robs/kills a white person or attacks a cop, ALL black people should condemn it on behalf of black people. Every time someone gets kidnapped in Mexico, ALL Mexicans should start a neighborhood watch, condemn the drug cartels actions and hunt them down.
Hate is hate.
Just cause some terrorist groups are suckering a bunch of losers into committing violent acts and declaring it in the name of a religion, doesn't make everyone a terrorist. You said "someone" estimated that 1 out of 4 Muslims is an extremist. About 1 out of 4 people in the world are estimated to be Muslims. If there are 400,000,000 extremists out of 1,600,000,000 Muslims, they must be doing a crappy job of being extreme. I wonder if the counted babies.
I see these so called "Muslim" terrorists killing more Muslims than I see them killing Non-Muslims, so I don't see how really makes any sense. Everyone has their own agenda.
I'm Muslim. |
That didnt take long. I didnt realize Muslim was a race.
My comment was in reference to CRT. Comment stands. Im a racist, and there is nothing i can do about it.....so says CRT. THE DEBATE IS OVER. /endsarcasm |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
shansen008
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 3568
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| NickF wrote: | | Oliver Reed wrote: | | NickF wrote: | | Oliver Reed wrote: | Nothing is funnier then someone in 2014 saying how Christians in 1804 killed a bunch of people because of their beliefs(which by the way, is information they got from Wikipedia), to compare it with what Muslim extremists are doing now on tv, for everyone to see, while the "good" Muslims are sitting back and mostly saying nothing.
|
Did all the "good" Christians stand up and say something the last time someone bombed an abortion clinic or murdered an abortion provider? |
First time I have heard about that situation. I also do not remember seeing those Christians going around with video cameras and chronicling themselves in front abortion clinics and beheading administration clerks and throwing dead fetus's in holes, threatening to do more with ski masks on. |
So you're claiming that you're so woefully uninformed that you are unaware that abortion providers have been shot to death by Christians? |
So scale doesnt matter i guess in your opinion? We can say without a doubt that those "extremist" Christians are outliers, and knowing Christianity and Christians.....not ONE that i know of would ever condone that kind of an action. Crazy people do crazy things. The point is that there are MILLIONS of muslims around the world that see no problem whatsoever in what people that make up groups like ISIS are doing. That is the difference. You wanna talk about context folks? There it is right there front and center.
8 people in the US have been killed due to violence committed against abortion clinics and those who work there. EIGHT. Muslim extremists have killed nearly 3000 on 9/11 alone, and thats just here. Wanna look up the number in Iraq? Iran? Yemen? Pakistan? Conflating some sort of moral equivalence between Christians who are against abortion doing crazy things, and muslim extremists.....priceless. Are honor killings only done by extremists in muslim countries? Show me the last time a Christian man murdered his own daughter for committing adultery or having sex out of wedlock.
They are who we thought they were. Much like our problems here in the US, the root isnt about race at all, its about cultures that cannot coexist based on their principles. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
shansen008
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 3568
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| NickF wrote: | | Oliver Reed wrote: | | NickF wrote: | | Oliver Reed wrote: | Nothing is funnier then someone in 2014 saying how Christians in 1804 killed a bunch of people because of their beliefs(which by the way, is information they got from Wikipedia), to compare it with what Muslim extremists are doing now on tv, for everyone to see, while the "good" Muslims are sitting back and mostly saying nothing.
|
Did all the "good" Christians stand up and say something the last time someone bombed an abortion clinic or murdered an abortion provider? |
First time I have heard about that situation. I also do not remember seeing those Christians going around with video cameras and chronicling themselves in front abortion clinics and beheading administration clerks and throwing dead fetus's in holes, threatening to do more with ski masks on. |
So you're claiming that you're so woefully uninformed that you are unaware that abortion providers have been shot to death by Christians? |
Yeah, you didnt know about all 8 of them? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NickF
Star Player
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 1946
Location: Caerbannog
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| shansen008 wrote: | | NickF wrote: | | Oliver Reed wrote: | | NickF wrote: | | Oliver Reed wrote: | Nothing is funnier then someone in 2014 saying how Christians in 1804 killed a bunch of people because of their beliefs(which by the way, is information they got from Wikipedia), to compare it with what Muslim extremists are doing now on tv, for everyone to see, while the "good" Muslims are sitting back and mostly saying nothing.
|
Did all the "good" Christians stand up and say something the last time someone bombed an abortion clinic or murdered an abortion provider? |
First time I have heard about that situation. I also do not remember seeing those Christians going around with video cameras and chronicling themselves in front abortion clinics and beheading administration clerks and throwing dead fetus's in holes, threatening to do more with ski masks on. |
So you're claiming that you're so woefully uninformed that you are unaware that abortion providers have been shot to death by Christians? |
Yeah, you didnt know about all 8 of them? |
Your point? Most Christians didn't stand up to publicly condemn these. I can only conclude by your logic that most Christians are extremists. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NickF
Star Player
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 1946
Location: Caerbannog
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
"So scale doesnt matter i guess in your opinion?" I guess if we only kill a few people it's okay.
"We can say without a doubt that those "extremist" Christians are outliers, and knowing Christianity and Christians.....not ONE that i know of would ever condone that kind of an action. Crazy people do crazy things."
How can we? The rest of Christians didn't speak up to condemn those actions. We can only assume according to your logic that they tacitly support them.
"The point is that there are MILLIONS of muslims around the world that see no problem whatsoever in what people that make up groups like ISIS are doing. That is the difference. You wanna talk about context folks? There it is right there front and center."
So far I have no idea that millions of Christians don't support the murder of Abortion doctors.
"8 people in the US have been killed due to violence committed against abortion clinics and those who work there. EIGHT."
You can't make an omelette..
"Muslim extremists have killed nearly 3000 on 9/11 alone, and thats just here. Wanna look up the number in Iraq? Iran? Yemen? Pakistan? "
The Muslims would assert that we have killed 10's of thousands of them.
"Conflating some sort of moral equivalence between Christians who are against abortion doing crazy things, and muslim extremists.....priceless. "
They are not true Christians or Scotsmen. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
shansen008
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 3568
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| NickF wrote: | | shansen008 wrote: | | NickF wrote: | | Oliver Reed wrote: | | NickF wrote: | | Oliver Reed wrote: | Nothing is funnier then someone in 2014 saying how Christians in 1804 killed a bunch of people because of their beliefs(which by the way, is information they got from Wikipedia), to compare it with what Muslim extremists are doing now on tv, for everyone to see, while the "good" Muslims are sitting back and mostly saying nothing.
|
Did all the "good" Christians stand up and say something the last time someone bombed an abortion clinic or murdered an abortion provider? |
First time I have heard about that situation. I also do not remember seeing those Christians going around with video cameras and chronicling themselves in front abortion clinics and beheading administration clerks and throwing dead fetus's in holes, threatening to do more with ski masks on. |
So you're claiming that you're so woefully uninformed that you are unaware that abortion providers have been shot to death by Christians? |
Yeah, you didnt know about all 8 of them? |
Your point? Most Christians didn't stand up to publicly condemn these. I can only conclude by your logic that most Christians are extremists. |
Or maybe most dont even know about it...because there have been 8. Have you asked any what they think? Or is it easier just to equate the two? Its certainly the intellectually lazier (read easy) thing to do. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
shansen008
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 3568
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| NickF wrote: | "So scale doesnt matter i guess in your opinion?" I guess if we only kill a few people it's okay.
"We can say without a doubt that those "extremist" Christians are outliers, and knowing Christianity and Christians.....not ONE that i know of would ever condone that kind of an action. Crazy people do crazy things."
How can we? The rest of Christians didn't speak up to condemn those actions. We can only assume according to your logic that they tacitly support them.
"The point is that there are MILLIONS of muslims around the world that see no problem whatsoever in what people that make up groups like ISIS are doing. That is the difference. You wanna talk about context folks? There it is right there front and center."
So far I have no idea that millions of Christians don't support the murder of Abortion doctors.
"8 people in the US have been killed due to violence committed against abortion clinics and those who work there. EIGHT."
You can't make an omelette..
"Muslim extremists have killed nearly 3000 on 9/11 alone, and thats just here. Wanna look up the number in Iraq? Iran? Yemen? Pakistan? "
The Muslims would assert that we have killed 10's of thousands of them.
"Conflating some sort of moral equivalence between Christians who are against abortion doing crazy things, and muslim extremists.....priceless. "
They are not true Christians or Scotsmen. |
^^ grasping at straws.
Are "we" Christians? Or are "we" Americans? I thought the argument was about Christian extremists vs Muslim extremists? You need to stick to the topic and quit obfuscating. The debate is whether a few crazy people who called themselves Christians and killed 8 people in the history of the united states at abortion clinics is the moral equivalent to the violence committed by muslim extremists every day around the world, and the millions of muslims that have no problem with it.
Blowback due to our poor foreign policy is a different topic. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Reflexx
Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 11163
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| NickF wrote: | | shansen008 wrote: | | NickF wrote: | | Oliver Reed wrote: | | NickF wrote: | | Oliver Reed wrote: | Nothing is funnier then someone in 2014 saying how Christians in 1804 killed a bunch of people because of their beliefs(which by the way, is information they got from Wikipedia), to compare it with what Muslim extremists are doing now on tv, for everyone to see, while the "good" Muslims are sitting back and mostly saying nothing.
|
Did all the "good" Christians stand up and say something the last time someone bombed an abortion clinic or murdered an abortion provider? |
First time I have heard about that situation. I also do not remember seeing those Christians going around with video cameras and chronicling themselves in front abortion clinics and beheading administration clerks and throwing dead fetus's in holes, threatening to do more with ski masks on. |
So you're claiming that you're so woefully uninformed that you are unaware that abortion providers have been shot to death by Christians? |
Yeah, you didnt know about all 8 of them? |
Your point? Most Christians didn't stand up to publicly condemn these. I can only conclude by your logic that most Christians are extremists. |
Wait... what?
I don't know ANY Christian that supported it.
The problem with Islam right now is that "extremists" are a huge part of the overall religion. Is it a minority? Probably. But it's not like it's a small minority.
I have no beef with Islam in general. I don't know enough about it. But I do know that there are a ton of followers of the kind that believes in things like honor killing and other inhumane behavior.
Even Muslims really should fully admit and recognize that there's a huge problem. In my opinion, more moderate Muslims should be the ones most outraged about the heinous stuff going on in the name of religion. There should be a huge freaking movement by Muslim world leaders and people of influence to stop the insanity. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
K28
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2012
Posts: 10038
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| NickF wrote: | | Oliver Reed wrote: | Nothing is funnier then someone in 2014 saying how Christians in 1804 killed a bunch of people because of their beliefs(which by the way, is information they got from Wikipedia), to compare it with what Muslim extremists are doing now on tv, for everyone to see, while the "good" Muslims are sitting back and mostly saying nothing.
|
Did all the "good" Christians stand up and say something the last time someone bombed an abortion clinic or murdered an abortion provider? |
The Catholic church did a pretty good job of looking the other way when a Catholic Fuhrer murdered 6 million Jews.
More recently, they looked the other way in Chile when Pinochet murdered tens of thousands of people.
More broadly, if you want to look at violence perpetrated by Christians, look no further than Latin America, where the US has it own share of blood on its hands but it's never characteriized as religious or Christian. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
