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Jeanie Buss "Any free agent that is afraid to play with Kobe is probably a loser"
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Voices
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Joined: 07 Jul 2006
Posts: 8287
Location: Oxnard, Ca.

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:37 pm Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:

Voices wrote:

fan4life wrote:

Dwight just got served

Jeanie actually defended Dwight, she understood why Dwight wanted to leave the Lakers. MDA instead of PJ, she understood that Dwight felt that MDA would not be a good coach for him.

That shows how clueless Dwight is.

You are seriously under estimating Dwight, he was smart not playing for MDA when he had the choice. MDA is a loser.
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ALTHOUGH HE STANDS 6 FEET 2 INCHES, JIM BUSS ATTENDED JOCKEY SCHOOL WHEN HE WAS 20.

JoJo Dancer
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Posts: 7474

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:37 pm Post subject:

USCandLakers wrote:

Jeanie just confirmed everything that was thought about Jim Buss, Mitch Kupchak, Dwight leaving and not hiring Phil.

A lot people should be eating crow right now.

Jimbo is an idiot and a clown.

Voices
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Joined: 07 Jul 2006
Posts: 8287
Location: Oxnard, Ca.

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:43 pm Post subject:

USCandLakers wrote:

Voices wrote:

venturalakersfan wrote:

OCWA wrote:

Love Jeanie, and have always thought she was the most qualified to run and be the face of the franchise, but her comments were unprofessional and just not very smart.

Jeannie is too emotional and that is why she would be horrible making basketball personnel decisions. Running the business side is perfect for her, she is a likeable person and there is a ton of PR required for that. To answer a question asked earlier, no, I could not see Dr. Buss going on a media blitz like this. It just wasn't who he was.

What are you basin your opinion on that Jeanie is too emotional, very chauvinistic view unless you have first hand knowledge of her excessive emotions.

Jeanie would have hired Phil both times, that's all I need to know about her. These "non emotional" people in the FO actually thought MDA was good for the team we had, and these "non emotional" people need to be shown the exit.

Not only do the "non emotional " people need to be removed but Jimmy let his dislike for PJ get in the way of what was in the best interest of the Lakers.
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ALTHOUGH HE STANDS 6 FEET 2 INCHES, JIM BUSS ATTENDED JOCKEY SCHOOL WHEN HE WAS 20.

Voices
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Joined: 07 Jul 2006
Posts: 8287
Location: Oxnard, Ca.

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:55 pm Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:

Voices wrote:

silkwilkes wrote:

Her father was still alive. She had no power to hire PJ until he passed. Also, PJ only wanted to coach because Jerry Buss was ill... he doens't want to coach anymore. He wants to be in the front office. As she put it: "It's a physical problem for him now. The travelling is too much."

She defended the organization BUT put Jim on notice too... very clear to me that he's on the clock to get results. It's a 3-year clock, granted. But i assume that she needs to see progress. If the ship is sinking after 2 years, he's gone imo.

I don't where you came up with PJ only wanted to coach because Dr. Buss was ill. It's true PJ does not want to coach anymore, he is now in charge of the team he played for, but he would have coached the Lakers one last time before Jimmy hired MDA, Jeanie has confirmed that. If you remember Jeanie was livid with her brother.

No, Jeannie confirmed that Phil wanted to check with his doctors to see if he would be capable of coaching again. That is as far as it went, we don't know if they said yes or no. That was his whole reluctance, he didn't know if he would be up to coach again physically.

Jeanie was using PJ wanting to check with his Doctors as part of the criteria that PJ was using to evaluate if he wanted to coach again. PJ was going to say yes, you know that.
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ALTHOUGH HE STANDS 6 FEET 2 INCHES, JIM BUSS ATTENDED JOCKEY SCHOOL WHEN HE WAS 20.

Vancouver Fan
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Posts: 17740

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:08 pm Post subject:

USCandLakers wrote:

Voices wrote:

venturalakersfan wrote:

OCWA wrote:

Love Jeanie, and have always thought she was the most qualified to run and be the face of the franchise, but her comments were unprofessional and just not very smart.

What are you basin your opinion on that Jeanie is too emotional, very chauvinistic view unless you have first hand knowledge of her excessive emotions.

Phil is the only plan. We get it.

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dont_be_a_wuss
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Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 21499

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:12 pm Post subject:

Voices wrote:

venturalakersfan wrote:

Voices wrote:

fan4life wrote:

Dwight just got served

Jeanie actually defended Dwight, she understood why Dwight wanted to leave the Lakers. MDA instead of PJ, she understood that Dwight felt that MDA would not be a good coach for him.

That shows how clueless Dwight is.

You are seriously under estimating Dwight, he was smart not playing for MDA when he had the choice. MDA is a loser.

With Dwights limited offensive skill set and defensive prowess, deciding to play for MDA would be about as dumb as it could get.

dont_be_a_wuss
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Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 21499

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:13 pm Post subject:

Vancouver Fan wrote:

USCandLakers wrote:

Voices wrote:

venturalakersfan wrote:

OCWA wrote:

Love Jeanie, and have always thought she was the most qualified to run and be the face of the franchise, but her comments were unprofessional and just not very smart.

What are you basin your opinion on that Jeanie is too emotional, very chauvinistic view unless you have first hand knowledge of her excessive emotions.

Phil is the only plan. We get it.

Not the only. The optimal.

Vancouver Fan
Franchise Player

Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 17740

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:14 pm Post subject:

dont_be_a_wuss wrote:

Voices wrote:

venturalakersfan wrote:

Voices wrote:

fan4life wrote:

Dwight just got served

Jeanie actually defended Dwight, she understood why Dwight wanted to leave the Lakers. MDA instead of PJ, she understood that Dwight felt that MDA would not be a good coach for him.

That shows how clueless Dwight is.

You are seriously under estimating Dwight, he was smart not playing for MDA when he had the choice. MDA is a loser.

With Dwights limited offensive skill set and defensive prowess, deciding to play for MDA would be about as dumb as it could get.

Dwight leaving was a blessing. He isn't max money material. It was a blessing in disguise. Same with Melo. He wasn't leaving NYC for ANY team. The only player worth signing was Lebron and we had almost 0% chance at that.
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dont_be_a_wuss
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:17 pm Post subject:

Vancouver Fan wrote:

dont_be_a_wuss wrote:

Voices wrote:

venturalakersfan wrote:

Voices wrote:

fan4life wrote:

Dwight just got served

Jeanie actually defended Dwight, she understood why Dwight wanted to leave the Lakers. MDA instead of PJ, she understood that Dwight felt that MDA would not be a good coach for him.

That shows how clueless Dwight is.

You are seriously under estimating Dwight, he was smart not playing for MDA when he had the choice. MDA is a loser.

With Dwights limited offensive skill set and defensive prowess, deciding to play for MDA would be about as dumb as it could get.

It depends on how many years we spend in the gutter, and if you are a fan of the tanking strategy. If we are in the gutter through the rest of Dwights career, there is no rational way to see it as a blessing that he left. On the other hand if we get some studs and build something more successful than Houston, it will turn out to be that blessing.

foshowtime
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Joined: 08 Nov 2012
Posts: 4448

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:33 pm Post subject:

silkwilkes wrote:

foshowtime wrote:

silkwilkes wrote:

So here is her argument:

Im in charge, and Im the boss.
Now that Im getting heat for my Contract decision with Kobe;
Im going to bring up the Phil/MDA issue which everyone likes to bash my brother on and PUT ALL the Blame on my Brother!

Something very zen about all this!

Her tone wasn't "blame" AT ALL. She was just setting the record straight... Her father wants Jim/Mitch to get a chance to execute their vision. She said many time that she thinks that they will be successful and she will not interfere AS LONG AS the Lakers' business model is not jeopardized (making herself answerable to sponsors, etc). BUT, she's making sure that people know she wanted PJ instead of mda AND that the Jim/Mitch project has a 3-year clock on it.

Her point is that there's no right or wrong vision... just a different vision. But once the decision is made to pick one path over another, everyone is on board, including herself, to give the project the maximum chance to succeed. But if it doesn't, then a switch will be made to another plan.

I see nothing wrong with that.

While her tone may have done right, her message is somewhat divisive.
She is telling people exactly what they want to hear, and gently shifting the blame on Jim/Mitch.
While then setting up her pushing them out, by saying that they have 3 years.
There was no reason for her to say any of this today.

Again, the primary reason she came on was to defend Kobe and HER MALIGNED Decision for the contract. However, somehow she is changing the topic to getting rid of Mitch/Jim.
And, on top of that, she is giving them 3 years out of the goodness of her heart and for her dying father, whom PJ would have coached for (Hold On, Let Me wipe away my tears)

Basically, Im in charge, Im a victim, A great sister, An even better daughter, and if Evil Mitch/Jim dont shape up. Ill get rid of them.

Again, I think there are many people who are clearly on her side; but there was NO reason to bring any of this up today. Cant imagine any of this helps anything.

foshowtime
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Posts: 4448

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:35 pm Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:

OCWA wrote:

Love Jeanie, and have always thought she was the most qualified to run and be the face of the franchise, but her comments were unprofessional and just not very smart.

It seems that Dr. Buss knew his daughter/son very well.
He wanted to keep her away from BBall decisions for a reason.
Its also clear that he did not want Jim to be the Media/PR face for a reason.

Reflexx
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Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 11163

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:36 pm Post subject:

dont_be_a_wuss wrote:

Voices wrote:

venturalakersfan wrote:

Voices wrote:

fan4life wrote:

Dwight just got served

Jeanie actually defended Dwight, she understood why Dwight wanted to leave the Lakers. MDA instead of PJ, she understood that Dwight felt that MDA would not be a good coach for him.

That shows how clueless Dwight is.

You are seriously under estimating Dwight, he was smart not playing for MDA when he had the choice. MDA is a loser.

With Dwights limited offensive skill set and defensive prowess, deciding to play for MDA would be about as dumb as it could get.

Playing for MDA would have been great for Dwight as long as he was coachable... which he wasn't. He could have been part of a truly lethal p&r duo. Instead, he kept insisting to be a back to the basket center... which he sucked at.

foshowtime
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Posts: 4448

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:40 pm Post subject:

KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:

foshowtime wrote:

King beef wrote:

pmacla wrote:

King beef wrote:

JayLida wrote:

King beef wrote:

That was a stupid comment by Jeanie. When she used the word "afraid", she created a straw man, she went above and beyond to protect her cash cow. THat is the perception. It proves a lot of what many players had a problem with to begin with. No, not that they are "afraid", but that if you go to the Lakers and you dont win then everyone is going to protect Kobe and blame you.

No way, one man's opinion I guess. I'm looking at the big picture here. The BSPN article was trash to begin with. With so many people refuting the article, I think Jeanie knows that. I have no problem with her comments. If free agents who are afraid of doing what it takes to win championships and use Kobe as an excuse then Jeanie is correct. They are losers and never will win with that type of attitude. They certainly don't need to wear the purple and gold.

I said the comment was stupid because I think Jeanie is implying somethat that someone in her position should not be implying. We could imply that all day long, but who are we? In her position, she shouldnt speak like such a fan of a player who I personally think could only play with second fiddle kind of mentalities (Artest, Odom, Gasol, etc) at this point in his career. Just my opinion.

I believe you are not hearing the whole quote, I believe she said if a Free Agent wont sign with the Lakers ONLY because he is a afraid to play with Kobe then he is a loser

she didnt say if a free agent doesnt want to sign because of KObe he is a loser key difference I have no problem with what she said and applaud her shows strength in ownership

And there is the straw man. "Only because he is afraid to play with Kobe", who is that? She created a straw man in order to protect her guy. That is my point. I dont think a top flight player is going to want to go to the Lakers if they feel that Kobe, at 36, is still the king. No top flight player is going to want to be the whipping boy/scape goat to a city in which many people worship Kobe Bryant.

Furthermore, I think a lot of free agents wanted to see that the Lakers had a plan. IMHO, KObe at 25 million a year says that you dont have a plan.

The problem with the Lakers the last few years has been inconsistency and contradictions.

They wanted to give Nash the Ball under Dantoni; but Kobe would dominate the ball.

They wanted to make Howard the future; but allowed Kobe to run roughshod over him.

They wanted to go young; but refused to quote unquote tank last year

They want to save up capspace, but lo and behold they pay Kobe a massive contract.

Almost everything they do, they take a step in the opposite direction as well.

After today's interview spree, I think the reason for this is clear.

Jim and Mitch, it is my belief, decided that the Kobe Led Lakers Dynasty was over after being swept by the Mavs.

Since then, they have made drastic moves trying to get one more ring with Kobe being a less featured part of the team:

1) CP3 Trade
2) Dwight Trade
3) Nash/Dantoni Experiment

All of these efforts failed for various reasons.

Now, they seem to be trying to rebuild by getting young assets and clearing cap space.

Unfortunately, it seems that Kobe is not down with many of these moves. Clearly, did not care about Dwight and was not willing to stop being ball dominant.

It also seems that Jeanie is squarely supporting Kobe in all of this, essentially saying what Kobe wants Kobe gets.

Jeanie seems to really be concerned with her popular image with Stephen A. and the ESPN crowd. Which she should be as she is the head of the business division.

As a part of this, she really wants to get the "We take care of our players" message out there.

Again, this is good; but the problem is that her efforts are at times contradictory to the Basketball side's efforts. If we are rebuilding, lets rebuild. If we are giving Kobe a well deserved farewell tour then say it is what it is. But do not give contradictory messages to FA's and fans, it only leads to more problems.

The Jeanie camp, Kobe, and some Lakers fans seem to be out of touch with the reality of today's NBA.

The league is now filled with sensitive primadona types. While I would love a tough 80s style superstar, we will have to deal with these current stars.

Telling them that they are "losers", or Mychal Thompson talking about players should love to come to LA to become "Scottie Pippen" will do NOTHING for us.

These players did not grow up dreaming to become "Scottie Pippen" and they definitely do not want to be Scottie to an aging star, which to most basketball fans and executives is worse than them.

In essence, the Lakers pitch to the young Free Agents, which we desparately need is:

Come to the Lakers, dont touch the Basketball, watch Kobe dribble the ball twenty times, do ten headfakes, take a fallaway jumper.
Of course, since this takes up most of his efforts on Offense, you will have to make up for it on D.
If the team loses, which it inevitably will, YOU WILL take the blame.
If you dont like it, then you are a "chump", "afraid" and a "loser"

For this reason, Players do not want to come here.
Players talk, and Dwight's experience here serves as a warning to many other stars, many of whom are friends with Dwight.

Instead of dealing with these facts, and making a clear cogent decision, Jeanie Buss went off on a desparate, defensive spree and as you said she made many strawmen arguments.

Instead of dealing with Players NOT WANTING to play with Kobe, she said they are afraid.

Instead of dealing with Overpaying Kobe WAY above what most estimated his market value, she talks about bringing Kobe back versus not bringing him back. No ONE is saying the Lakers should have let him go; but there was no reason to PAY HIM SO MUCH.

Instead of dealing with the rules of the game (i.e. Salary Cap); she said that she simply doesnt care about the salary cap.

The Lakers need to get back to reality:
We Need Talent. Young Talent. Superstar Talent. Talent that Fits Together. Under a Coach and System that fits with Them.
Ideally, we can do it fast enough and get Kobe one more ring.

Even if every thing you said is true. And make no mistake, I don't agree with much of what you wrote, I say "SO?"

Guess what. It's her franchise to run and she is doing what she wants to with it. And If she wants to roll with, and let's not mince words here, the most compelling persona to ever play the game, and one of, if not it's greatest player, and if they want to roll with an old school mentality, then, I'm fine with that.

I'd rather lose old school than win like a sucka. It's a game and at the end of the day, we take from it what we wish. Friendly, kissy face, non-confrontational ass kissing makes me want to puke. I'd rather watch reruns of when teams hated each other and when you had to be willing to take punishment if you were going to go into the lane, than today's brand of Euro funk.

I dont think you got the point.

If they want to lose old school, and roll with the greatest to play the game as you say; That is Completely Fine! I agree!

But be honest, tell us that. This is Kobe's farewell tour.

The problem is that it is part-Kobe farewell tour; part-Lets make the playoffs; part-Rebuilding.

All I am asking for is consistency and honesty to the fans. Contradictory actions will only leave you running in place.

lakers0505
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 10701

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:48 pm Post subject:

67ShelbyGT wrote:

KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote:

fan4life wrote:

Dwight just got served

wolfpaclaker
Retired Number

Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58344

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:01 pm Post subject:

fan4life wrote:

Dwight just got served

Could be wrong but didn't Jeannie defend Dwight and say "we (as in Lakers) failed Dwight" as in to imply that Dad and a certain set of moves and inconsistencies in the FO led to his leaving? BTW, I don't think Dwight was ever afraid to play with Kobe. If he were, he would have killed a Laker trade right away. There's a huge difference in not wanting to play with Kobe and not liking to play with Kobe right away. Lamar Odom for example needed time to get used to playing with Kobe. Shaq the same. There's no reason if Kobe were in his prime, Dwight and he couldn't have had great success. You don't have to love each other to be able to play and be teammates. The decision Dwight faced was to play in the role of being the younger star leading a team that wasn't going anywhere since Kobe was past his prime and injured while MDA coached. It wasn't exactly say the same as 2006 where you'd have a prime Kobe and Phil coaching. I don't think Dwight or any FA walks under those circumstances no matter how much they don't get along with Kobe or mesh personality wise.

wolfpaclaker
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:03 pm Post subject:

USCandLakers wrote:

Jeanie just confirmed everything that was thought about Jim Buss, Mitch Kupchak, Dwight leaving and not hiring Phil.

A lot people should be eating crow right now.

Just out of curiosity, what did Jeannie say that made you think that, USC?

Treble Clef
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Posts: 23913

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:50 pm Post subject:

Voices wrote:

venturalakersfan wrote:

Voices wrote:

silkwilkes wrote:

Jeanie was using PJ wanting to check with his Doctors as part of the criteria that PJ was using to evaluate if he wanted to coach again. PJ was going to say yes, you know that.

He has had like 2 years now to say he wanted the job. Still hasn't done it. We are still sitting here reading between the lines on him kicking the tires on the whole idea.

Jeanie obviously wanted him to coach. He obviously had doubts. The man had already retired and said he'd never coach again, after all.

Maybe he just wanted to kick the tires on the job out of his own curiosity.

Maybe he just went through with an interview to shine Jeanie on and he knew it wouldn't materialize.

Maybe he just wanted some spotlight since he had a new book coming out.

Lets look at how it turned out. Phil got a ton of press, Jim Buss got a ton of grief, Jeanie was happy that Phil tried but blames her brother for it not working out, people are all talking about how much better things would have been if Phil had been hired, and so on. For someone with a reputation as a master manipulator, things sure worked out well from all fronts there.

If Phil does ever come out and say he wanted the job, Ill eat every last word.

Truck Turner
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Posts: 3937

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:51 pm Post subject:

King beef wrote:

Then those people are idiots..

Last I checked Kobe still gets most of the blame for what happened during the 04 finals. Kobe also gets blamed for what happened in the 07 playoffs.

I know people like to point to all the flack Pau got during his time hear but Pau brought that on himself by disappear in the finals in 08 and during his last 3 playoff appearances.

Dwight got blamed for the problems when he was here because he clearly wasn't playing hard at times (a criticism that followed him from Orlando).

What is true is that Lakers fans will turn on you if we feel you're not playing hard. Kobe ALWAYS plays hard, Magic ALWAYS played hard, Kareem ALWAYS played hard. When a player half asses it on the court and the team starts losing you're damn right Lakers fans are going to turn on them.

jodeke
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:54 pm Post subject:

Treble Clef wrote:

Voices wrote:

venturalakersfan wrote:

Voices wrote:

silkwilkes wrote:

Jeanie was using PJ wanting to check with his Doctors as part of the criteria that PJ was using to evaluate if he wanted to coach again. PJ was going to say yes, you know that.

I thought Phil wanted a FO position. He didn't want to coach because of his health.
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Treble Clef
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:58 pm Post subject:

jodeke wrote:

Treble Clef wrote:

Voices wrote:

venturalakersfan wrote:

Voices wrote:

silkwilkes wrote:

Jeanie was using PJ wanting to check with his Doctors as part of the criteria that PJ was using to evaluate if he wanted to coach again. PJ was going to say yes, you know that.

I thought Phil wanted a FO position. He didn't want to coach because of his health.

Thats what I think too but it seems like most people think he was going to coach and Jim was just too stubborn to let it happen. I have a feeling that Phil just sits in a tall elevated recliner and cracks a proud, condescending smile at those claims.

fan4life
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Joined: 02 Jul 2001
Posts: 3675

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:04 pm Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:

fan4life wrote:

Dwight just got served

Hmm, I don't disagree with anything in your post. However, there several rumors that Dwight wanted the Lakers to consider amnestying Bryant. Another quote where Dwight suggested 2-3 years out (from 2013) may have been the right time to be in LA....which sort of implies after Kobe's exit

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/9468452/dwight-howard-wanted-end-kobe-bryant-era-los-angeles-lakers

Treble Clef
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Posts: 23913

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:20 pm Post subject:

thejet24 wrote:

Love Jeannie's passion, but when you are in the position she is in, you cannot base your decisions on pure emotion.

Everytime someone writes or says something negative about the Lakers, it seems Jeannie puts on her PR hat and tries to play damage control. But she always seems to be caught off guard by questions, and instead of giving an answer which will cool the fire off, she adds fuel to it.

Why get into the details of what went on behind the scenes? That is what the media wants, and she gives it to them on a silver plater.

She is not helping get rid of the notion that this organization is a dysfunctional family in the mist of turmoil. That's the real reason players don't come and play here, not because of Kobe.

That's why I've always thought it was a good idea that she wasn't given full control of things. If a guy was really nice and had a good family but wasnt performing on the court, she doesn't strike me as the type that could put her compassionate side away and make the needed business decision.

Trading Derek Fisher for Jordan Hill turned out to be a GREAT trade. Jeanie hated it because she likes Derek.

Jeanie's comments today were funny because of who she is but if she was the GM, they would have been embarrassing. She was given the proper role in the organization. As usual, Jerry knew what he was doing.

tlim
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Joined: 26 Jun 2002
Posts: 6649

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:49 pm Post subject:

What's the deal with this year being the _first_ year? Isn't it technically year 2 since last year was an utter flame out? How can last year not count?

Dreamshake
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Posts: 13712

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:58 pm Post subject:

Vancouver Fan wrote:

Yes he is. He's a defensive C that can get you 20 a night, or close to it. Just being a good defensive C that isn't a complete liability in this league in worth max money, due to the rarity of the position.

He may not be "lead you to a title" material, but he is clearly worth a max deal and any team would love to have him. There isn't one team in the league that wouldn't give Howard a max deal.

Dreamshake
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Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13712

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:00 pm Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:

fan4life wrote:

Dwight just got served

Good post. If Kobe were younger I think Howard stays, no matter the personality differences.

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