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Mike@LG
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 Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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A bit off topic, but Anthony Davis and K-Leonard on the same starting 5 would be beastmode. |
Perfectly complimentary.
I just think that Leonard is such a system player and works within the operable space for the Spurs so effectively.
Everything is a jumpshot, pull up jumpshot, straight line drive, rare change of direction.
But, he has such long arms and monster hands, he's able to get off good shots despite shooting over the defense. For other players with less measureables, they are lower percentage shots.
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70sdude
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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If I were part of the Spurs organization, I would not offer him the max, and it would be easy to feel good about why.
If I were among the Laker management team, I would not offer him the max, as he's not produced that level of impact just yet in my opinion, and it's too early to lock for this club into a guy at the highest possible pay rate who's not quite a game changer. I do think he'd pair well with Randle. He's certainly a very high impact guy and probably a terrific option for a second best guy on a roster. |
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Hector the Pup
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| 70sdude wrote: | If I were part of the Spurs organization, I would not offer him the max, and it would be easy to feel good about why.
If I were among the Laker management team, I would not offer him the max, as he's not produced that level of impact just yet in my opinion, and it's too early to lock for this club into a guy at the highest possible pay rate who's not quite a game changer. I do think he'd pair well with Randle. He's certainly a very high impact guy and probably a terrific option for a second best guy on a roster. |
I'd wait until he has 2 Finals MVPs and 2 DPOYs before considering paying him that much. One of each just isn't going to cut it. |
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the association
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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The level of misunderstanding is still surprising to me. But yeah, I'll bite ...
1. Based on what I've read from others who bother to invest time in the actual calculus embedded in the CBA, the max. deal for Kawhi is going to be worth less than $16 million in year 1 (the 2015/2016 season), which equates to approx. $11 million in today's pre-cap expansion climate. There are 48 players with higher base salaries in the NBA this year. 48 of 'em (including Larry Sanders and JaVale McGee, just to name two near the bottom of that list) ...
2. Regarding impact, anyone who downplays Kawhi's actual impact should watch a game, spend some time with his advanced metrics and then review the Spurs results this year, both via on/off comparative data and the team's overall team record when he played at all (vs. when he sat due to injury) ...
I've already posted his advanced analytics here and elsewhere too many time to be bothered doing it again ... RPM, WS/48, PER, BPM, Defensive Rating, etc. Suffice it to say (based on his performance this year, as a 23 year old), he's already a Top 25 player based on the advanced data that matters to many GMs today (and really a Top 15 player when one factors in his demonstrated ability to actually elevate his performance in the postseason [an exceedingly unusual trait], but I'm not in the mood to haggle with anyone over rankings). AND he's even a Top 25 player for most marginally objective viewers based on the absurd eyeball test that so many seem to resort to (which is just a fancy term for one's opinion, which might be based on a great deal of expertise or none at all, BUT is always based on the subjective lens they view players through) ...
3. Few seem to notice very often, but there's a fundamental problem that many "experts" seem to have accurately gauging a player's worth in the NBA that involves, in essence, investing almost every last thought onto one side of the ball --- the offensive side. I recently read an article that captures the problem nicely ...
If I asked you to compare a player (call him Player A) who was consensus Top 5 defensively and very arguably Top 25 offensively, with a player (call him Player B) who was consensus Top 5 offensively and very arguably not even in the Top 100 defensively, most of the people who cannot get out of their own way to properly evaluate Kawhi's worth would quickly cast their vote for Player B as the franchise player and Player A as a #2 or #3 option on a title-contending team ...
Player A is Kawhi ...
Player B is Steph Curry or James Harden ...
4. The system in San Antonio doesn't help Kawhi's development NOW, it obstructs it. While the "bring him along slowly" approach worked during his first two seasons, the last two have been awkwardly-stunted seasons where Popovich has limited his minutes (as he does across the board with his roster) and Tony Parker has relentlessly battled to control to whom the credit for the team's success is apportioned. Watch a game sometime and observe Parker do everything he possibly can to rotate the ball away from Kawhi (including often into a defender's welcoming hands) ... the grass is greener for Kawhi.
In the event that he played Jimmy Butler minutes and the system focused on his individual production, he likely would have been a 21 - 9 - 3 - 3 guy this year (with that Top 5 defense as a kicker, though I suppose it matters not for some) as a 23 year old. The Spurs system is an obstruction, not a bailout.
5. Some of the goalpost moving is hilarious, but I'm beginning to understand that it's largely influenced by the echo chamber that some of us as Lakers fans have been working within over the past 20 years ... it makes sense, I guess, considering how some people think changing directions and getting off a contested, low BBIQ shot is better than reading the flow of the game and passing to the open teammate for a better look, but still. PPG and usage rate must be the only stats that matter to some of us ... and the assessment up above regarding the "advantages" of the space the Spurs system provides for Kawhi is an assessment that might have been relevant and accurate in 2011/2012 or even 2012/2013. It's time to move the clock ahead to reflect the two seasons that have happened since and actually watch his game TODAY.
Now, I'm ready for a great laugh. Experts out there? Are you onboard with Klay Thompson getting a max. deal? You know, the same guy who has relied on an assist for over 20% more of his FGA than Kawhi has. I'll happily deconstruct their relative statistics if that will help ... but I'm guessing your eyeballs are better than the nettlesome data.
Scoring is all some people need to see. It's a myopia that won't change and it's the reason so many cannot get onto their knees fast enough for the sacred cow over the years ...
6. That's all I have ... if the Spurs fail to make the right move AND the Lakers mirror that idiocy, someone else is going to get a guy who will be significantly contributing to a winning organization for the next ten years. And he'll do it without the narcissistic B.S. that kills what might otherwise be runs of excellence ... but, yeah ... let's not make that problem ours if the opportunity arises. Let's get us some Monta Ellis, stat ...
Last edited by the association on Wed Apr 29, 2015 2:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The system in San Antonio doesn't help Kawhi's development NOW, it obstructs it |
Totally disagree.
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Are you onboard with Klay Thompson getting a max. deal? |
Yes. Easily the #1 option, asked to create shots repeatedly when Curry isn't on the floor. Far improved defensively.
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the association
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | | The system in San Antonio doesn't help Kawhi's development NOW, it obstructs it |
Totally disagree.
| Quote: |
Are you onboard with Klay Thompson getting a max. deal? |
Yes. Easily the #1 option, asked to create shots repeatedly when Curry isn't on the floor. Far improved defensively. |
You just don't know what you're talking about, I'm afraid ...
That's fine ... this loggerheads won't move until you re-state your views or Kawhi's play deteriorates enough to enable me to re-state mine.
Either way, he's getting paid ... $$$ |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| the association wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | | The system in San Antonio doesn't help Kawhi's development NOW, it obstructs it |
Totally disagree.
| Quote: |
Are you onboard with Klay Thompson getting a max. deal? |
Yes. Easily the #1 option, asked to create shots repeatedly when Curry isn't on the floor. Far improved defensively. |
You just don't know what you're talking about, I'm afraid ...
That's fine ... this loggerheads won't move until you re-state your views or Kawhi's play deteriorates enough to enable me to re-state mine.
Either way, he's getting paid ... $$$ |
Wow. No specific reasoning?
Sorry, but when SA is late in the 4th, they STILL go to Duncan in the post. Then the defense reacts. Then we see Parker/Mills, Manu, then Kawhi getting shots.
I don't know what I'm talking about? #1 or #2 options don't get easily isolated looks like Kawhi. He's easily a straight-line driver and often opts to pull-up from mid-range to get off a good shot.
It is VERY Pippen-like. I like Kawhi Leonard a lot, but it doesn't mean I think he can carry a franchise offensively. When Kawhi becomes an improved playmaker, or at leasts carries the responsibility (especially when Parker is hurt with injury) and draws a few double teams on the perimeter, I may reconsider.
Klay at least steps up in Curry's absence. If anything, as great as Curry is, he takes away a few shots from Klay because he at least looks like a dominant #2 option. 24.5ppg despite Stephen Curry.
The Spurs have a boatload of weapons. Hence, 16.5ppg.
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the association
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | the association wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | | The system in San Antonio doesn't help Kawhi's development NOW, it obstructs it |
Totally disagree.
| Quote: |
Are you onboard with Klay Thompson getting a max. deal? |
Yes. Easily the #1 option, asked to create shots repeatedly when Curry isn't on the floor. Far improved defensively. |
You just don't know what you're talking about, I'm afraid ...
That's fine ... this loggerheads won't move until you re-state your views or Kawhi's play deteriorates enough to enable me to re-state mine.
Either way, he's getting paid ... $$$ |
Wow. No specific reasoning?
Sorry, but when SA is late in the 4th, they STILL go to Duncan in the post. Then the defense reacts. Then we see Parker/Mills, Manu, then Kawhi getting shots.
I don't know what I'm talking about? #1 or #2 options don't get easily isolated looks like Kawhi. He's easily a straight-line driver and often opts to pull-up from mid-range to get off a good shot.
It is VERY Pippen-like. I like Kawhi Leonard a lot, but it doesn't mean I think he can carry a franchise offensively. When Kawhi becomes an improved playmaker, or at leasts carries the responsibility (especially when Parker is hurt with injury) and draws a few double teams on the perimeter, I may reconsider.
Klay at least steps up in Curry's absence. If anything, as great as Curry is, he takes away a few shots from Klay because he at least looks like a dominant #2 option.
The Spurs have a boatload of weapons. |
I don't even have to think it's the best approach right now to concede that the Spurs strategy of going to a Top 10 player of all time who's still playing like a Top 25 player in the game (when he's on) is a reasonably sensible move ... it's not like Jordan's been a Duncan stopper, so it makes sense to work the angle that has been fruitful for 15+ years.
Furthermore, the dysfunctional dynamics on the Spurs with Parker's not-so-graceful career arc have more to do with your depiction of progressions than capacity to produce ... and lastly, points have the same value throughout the game. I'm not a "only the last minute matters" guy ...
What does Klay get in the way of looks that differs from what you described above? Seriously ... I'd appreciate your description of how he creates his own shots in more meaningful ways than someone like Kawhi. I just don't see it ... and I like Klay, too. I'd have given that MF the max. deal in a heartbeat, too. I simply call B.S. when a player who is less able to create his own shot isn't held to the same standard that you impose on Kawhi ...
<sputtering and swearing> GMs would indiscriminately spray bullets in a church to find another Pippen. I don't understand why you continue to use that analogy pejoratively vis-a-vis Kawhi ... he doesn't deserve a max. deal in your mind because the best comparison you can muster is a Top 50 player of all time?
It has to be the obsession with scoring that I alluded to above. What am I missing? Does defense not comprise 1/2 the game when you watch it?
Kawhi doesn't step up when the team's previous #1 option (Parker) has looked like a dog this year? Kawhi didn't step up in last year's Finals? C'mon, man ...
And lastly ... how are the Warriors on the weapons front? They doing OK? I'm assuming they have a bare bones roster, but then I look and see Andre Iguodala as a 9th or 10th man and I'm like, what? |
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the association
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | | 70sdude wrote: | If I were part of the Spurs organization, I would not offer him the max, and it would be easy to feel good about why.
If I were among the Laker management team, I would not offer him the max, as he's not produced that level of impact just yet in my opinion, and it's too early to lock for this club into a guy at the highest possible pay rate who's not quite a game changer. I do think he'd pair well with Randle. He's certainly a very high impact guy and probably a terrific option for a second best guy on a roster. |
I'd wait until he has 2 Finals MVPs and 2 DPOYs before considering paying him that much. One of each just isn't going to cut it. |
Better make it three of each. Just to be sure ... |
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the association
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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I just noticed in another thread in the Lounge (re: the Playoffs or Mt. Rushmore or Zion National Park or whatever) that LakerSanity slots Pippen in the Top 15 players of all time. ALL TIME.
So Kawhi's game is Pippen's game (which I think is generous, but he's 23 years old, so I'll go with it), but pulling the trigger on a max. deal (knowing it's actually the equivalent of approx. 65% of a max. deal in 14 months ... for reference, please refer to AD's purported $140M deal vs. Kawhi's purported $90M deal in July) is still a real hand-wringer?
IMO, the lack of perspective is at least as staggering as the failure to assess comparative value ... |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I don't even have to think it's the best approach right now to concede that the Spurs strategy of going to a Top 10 player of all time who's still playing like a Top 25 player in the game (when he's on) is a reasonably sensible move ... it's not like Jordan's been a Duncan stopper, so it makes sense to work the angle that has been fruitful for 15+ years. |
So, you go to the guy in his twilight who has had a few instances of struggling in isolation against DeAndre Jordan, instead of the young guy near his prime?
Maybe it's because Duncan is a better shot creator than Kawhi. So, then, he's the #1 option, not Kawhi.
| Quote: | | What does Klay get in the way of looks that differs from what you described above? Seriously ... I'd appreciate your description of how he creates his own shots in more meaningful ways than someone like Kawhi. I just don't see it ... and I like Klay, too. I'd have given that MF the max. deal in a heartbeat, too. I simply call B.S. when a player who is less able to create his own shot isn't held to the same standard that you impose on Kawhi ... |
There's no denying Klay is the #2 option. There isn't a cycle of players before him getting touches, usually Parker, Duncan, then Ginobili.
Klay's best offensive skill is based around the jumpshot. He also opts for more mid-range shots, hard slashes at the rim, and does so under more considerable defensive pressure. What, GSW is going to go through Barnes, David Lee, and Bogut first? Even Iguodala comes off the bench.
That's exactly what I mean by the Spurs system benefits Kawhi. He's a highly talented player, but he's also a 4th guy.
| Quote: | | <sputtering and swearing> GMs would indiscriminately spray bullets in a church to find another Pippen. I don't understand why you continue to use that analogy pejoratively vis-a-vis Kawhi ... he doesn't deserve a max. deal in your mind because the best comparison you can muster is a Top 50 player of all time? |
Even Pippen needed the triangle and a championship level squad around him.
| Quote: | | It has to be the obsession with scoring that I alluded to above. What am I missing? Does defense not comprise 1/2 the game when you watch it? |
I love Kawhi's defense, but the modern NBA doesn't always cater to defense as a franchise player. Is Noah paid the max? Was Chandler? Marc Gasol gets it because he's DPOY AND an effective offensive option.
| Quote: | | Kawhi doesn't step up when the team's previous #1 option (Parker) has looked like a dog this year? Kawhi didn't step up in last year's Finals? C'mon, man ... |
The idea that the Finals is a reflection of a players abilities is ...not something I rely on.
But, the players that play the most consistently all throughout the entire playoffs? Sure. Sometimes a player gets a favorable match up.
| Quote: |
And lastly ... how are the Warriors on the weapons front? They doing OK? I'm assuming they have a bare bones roster, but then I look and see Andre Iguodala as a 9th or 10th man and I'm like, what? |
You assume they have a barebones roster? They're amongst the league leaders in offense and defense, excelling in the playoffs, and don't even need to play Iguodala because they're a deep team.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| the association wrote: | I just noticed in another thread in the Lounge (re: the Playoffs or Mt. Rushmore or Zion National Park or whatever) that LakerSanity slots Pippen in the Top 15 players of all time. ALL TIME.
So Kawhi's game is Pippen's game (which I think is generous, but he's 23 years old, so I'll go with it), but pulling the trigger on a max. deal (knowing it's actually the equivalent of approx. 65% of a max. deal in 14 months ... for reference, please refer to AD's purported $140M deal vs. Kawhi's purported $90M deal in July) is still a real hand-wringer?
IMO, the lack of perspective is at least as staggering as the failure to assess comparative value ... |
I love Pippen's and Kawhi's game.
But, you'd think that considering the age of the roster of the Spurs, he'd take on more responsibility, especially on the offensive end with Duncan in his twilight and Parker dealing with multiple injuries.
Haven't really seen it. I don't buy the argument that Kawhi should get paid the max based on defense. I don't buy that the system restricts him, because he's a ladder offensive option. I definitely don't think he's a dynamic offensive option, but as I've said before, he gets away with A LOT on wingspan and hands alone.
It's hard for me to give a MAX to a guy who shows out in the Finals...
... what about the rest of the season? I guess the Spurs didn't need him to step up.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | | I don't even have to think it's the best approach right now to concede that the Spurs strategy of going to a Top 10 player of all time who's still playing like a Top 25 player in the game (when he's on) is a reasonably sensible move ... it's not like Jordan's been a Duncan stopper, so it makes sense to work the angle that has been fruitful for 15+ years. |
So, you go to the guy in his twilight who has had a few instances of struggling in isolation against DeAndre Jordan, instead of the young guy near his prime?
Maybe it's because Duncan is a better shot creator than Kawhi. So, then, he's the #1 option, not Kawhi.
| Quote: | | What does Klay get in the way of looks that differs from what you described above? Seriously ... I'd appreciate your description of how he creates his own shots in more meaningful ways than someone like Kawhi. I just don't see it ... and I like Klay, too. I'd have given that MF the max. deal in a heartbeat, too. I simply call B.S. when a player who is less able to create his own shot isn't held to the same standard that you impose on Kawhi ... |
There's no denying Klay is the #2 option. There isn't a cycle of players before him getting touches, usually Parker, Duncan, then Ginobili.
Klay's best offensive skill is based around the jumpshot. He also opts for more mid-range shots, hard slashes at the rim, and does so under more considerable defensive pressure. What, GSW is going to go through Barnes, David Lee, and Bogut first? Even Iguodala comes off the bench.
That's exactly what I mean by the Spurs system benefits Kawhi. He's a highly talented player, but he's also a 4th guy.
| Quote: | | <sputtering and swearing> GMs would indiscriminately spray bullets in a church to find another Pippen. I don't understand why you continue to use that analogy pejoratively vis-a-vis Kawhi ... he doesn't deserve a max. deal in your mind because the best comparison you can muster is a Top 50 player of all time? |
Even Pippen needed the triangle and a championship level squad around him.
| Quote: | | It has to be the obsession with scoring that I alluded to above. What am I missing? Does defense not comprise 1/2 the game when you watch it? |
I love Kawhi's defense, but the modern NBA doesn't always cater to defense as a franchise player. Is Noah paid the max? Was Chandler? Marc Gasol gets it because he's DPOY AND an effective offensive option.
| Quote: | | Kawhi doesn't step up when the team's previous #1 option (Parker) has looked like a dog this year? Kawhi didn't step up in last year's Finals? C'mon, man ... |
The idea that the Finals is a reflection of a players abilities is ...not something I rely on.
But, the players that play the most consistently all throughout the entire playoffs? Sure. Sometimes a player gets a favorable match up.
| Quote: |
And lastly ... how are the Warriors on the weapons front? They doing OK? I'm assuming they have a bare bones roster, but then I look and see Andre Iguodala as a 9th or 10th man and I'm like, what? |
You assume they have a barebones roster? They're amongst the league leaders in offense and defense, excelling in the playoffs, and don't even need to play Iguodala because they're a deep team. |
I was being sarcastic about the Warriors roster ... that was my point ... Klay has more legitimate distractions surrounding him working in his favor than Kawhi ever has had in SA ... and even though I reject the PPG argument, 16.5 PPG vs. 24.5 PPG is a function of attempts and surrounding cast more than it is anything else ... the Warriors are loaded so much that David Lee and Leandro Barbosa, both of whom would start in San Antonio, are afterthoughts ...
I have to run, but we're obviously left to see how it shakes out ... we'll see. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Klay has more legitimate distractions surrounding him working in his favor than Kawhi ever has had in SA ... and even though I reject the PPG argument, 16.5 PPG vs. 24.5 PPG is a function of attempts and surrounding cast more than it is anything else ... the Warriors are loaded so much that David Lee and Leandro Barbosa, both of whom would start in San Antonio, are afterthoughts ... |
Distractions? It's a deep team by role players, but not offensive options.
Even then, you know exactly what Klay's place is on offense. Why on earth should KAwhi be buried offensively if he's so talented?
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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Some NBA executive of the Memphis Grizzlies was interviewed last night (I was wondering why ESPN710 had Mason and Ireland at 830pm), and he felt that the Spurs can afford to pay him, but he himself, wouldn't offer Kawhi the max.
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the association
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Some NBA executive of the Memphis Grizzlies was interviewed last night (I was wondering why ESPN710 had Mason and Ireland at 830pm), and he felt that the Spurs can afford to pay him, but he himself, wouldn't offer Kawhi the max. |
I find it pretty surprising to learn that an organization that employs John Hollinger would not immediately immolate its roster to get a player like Kawhi, but whatever ... if you come across the link, please share as I'd like to better understand the contrarian view on this subject.
That said, I'm not going to play badminton on this issue any more than we already have today. I'll toss some concussion grenades from time to time if I continue to see what I'm seeing on the court, and you can obviously do the same if you continue to see what you're seeing ...
Otherwise, we're just going to have to wait and see how it shakes out ... |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:25 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Some NBA executive of the Memphis Grizzlies was interviewed last night (I was wondering why ESPN710 had Mason and Ireland at 830pm), and he felt that the Spurs can afford to pay him, but he himself, wouldn't offer Kawhi the max. |
At 16.3m, which will be the cap hit equivalent (using 2015 cap amounts) of around 12.5-13m, you wouldn't offer him that? I do that in a heartbeat.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Some NBA executive of the Memphis Grizzlies was interviewed last night (I was wondering why ESPN710 had Mason and Ireland at 830pm), and he felt that the Spurs can afford to pay him, but he himself, wouldn't offer Kawhi the max. |
At 16.3m, which will be the cap hit equivalent (using 2015 cap amounts) of around 12.5-13m, you wouldn't offer him that? I do that in a heartbeat. |
The estimates I have repeatedly seen re: a 2015 max. deal for Kawhi suggest an overall imputed value of approx. $90 million (over five years).
Twelve (12) months later, the emerging whisper numbers suggest the same category of max. deal will have an approx. $140 million value (see recent articles on contract status of Anthony Davis with the Pelicans). This anticipated transition to a substantially higher cap is one reason to accept the qualifying offer and gamble on the homerun ...
Unless I'm missing another critical factor (and based solely on those two data points), I'm guessing the adjusted TVM value for Kawhi will be closer to $11.0 million per annum (rather than $12.5 - $13.0 million in today's NBA $) ... that value would slot him somewhere in the 48 - 50 range of highest paid players in the association (based on this year's salary tables). To provide some nauseating perspective, the Spurs and the Bulls are going to spend less in adjusted $$$ for a year of service from Kawhi and Jimmy Butler COMBINED under their soon-to-be new contracts than we spent on Kobe this year (or next year!) ... ugh.
#92590
Perhaps we'll see see tonight whether Kawhi is worthy of a Top 50 contract ... |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Some NBA executive of the Memphis Grizzlies was interviewed last night (I was wondering why ESPN710 had Mason and Ireland at 830pm), and he felt that the Spurs can afford to pay him, but he himself, wouldn't offer Kawhi the max. |
At 16.3m, which will be the cap hit equivalent (using 2015 cap amounts) of around 12.5-13m, you wouldn't offer him that? I do that in a heartbeat. |
I'm doing this without thinking of the future cap in mind. I definitely see the strong arguments in Kawhi's favor.
I'd just feel better of the situation if we were talking about an All-Star, all season long, without the Finals accolades. If that's the case, we're usually talking about a top tier offensive option, carrying responsibility for the team instead of sharing it among 3 other experienced All-Stars.
I know that Leonard is FAR FAR FAR more talented than Byron Scott, but it's Kareem, Magic, and Worthy first before Scott got the basketball. He didn't become a 20ppg scorer until the team decided to focus on Scott as a primary offensive option.
Same general idea.
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the association
Star Player
Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 1982
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| the association wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Some NBA executive of the Memphis Grizzlies was interviewed last night (I was wondering why ESPN710 had Mason and Ireland at 830pm), and he felt that the Spurs can afford to pay him, but he himself, wouldn't offer Kawhi the max. |
At 16.3m, which will be the cap hit equivalent (using 2015 cap amounts) of around 12.5-13m, you wouldn't offer him that? I do that in a heartbeat. |
The estimates I have repeatedly seen re: a 2015 max. deal for Kawhi suggest an overall imputed value of approx. $90 million (over five years).
Twelve (12) months later, the emerging whisper numbers suggest the same category of max. deal will have an approx. $140 million value (see recent articles on contract status of Anthony Davis with the Pelicans). This anticipated transition to a substantially higher cap is one reason to accept the qualifying offer and gamble on the homerun ...
Unless I'm missing another critical factor (and based solely on those two data points), I'm guessing the adjusted TVM value for Kawhi will be closer to $11.0 million per annum (rather than $12.5 - $13.0 million in today's NBA $) ... that value would slot him somewhere in the 48 - 50 range of highest paid players in the association (based on this year's salary tables). To provide some nauseating perspective, the Spurs and the Bulls are going to spend less in adjusted $$$ for a year of service from Kawhi and Jimmy Butler COMBINED under their soon-to-be new contracts than we spent on Kobe this year (or next year!) ... ugh.
#92590
Perhaps we'll see see tonight whether Kawhi is worthy of a Top 50 contract ... |
Wow ... I didn't get to catch the entire game, but I caught the last five minutes and kept up with the stats throughout ... hot garbage from Kawhi in an important game. Pop was generous just now in the postgame characterizing his play as "he didn't play well". It was worse than that, at least as far as the box score suggests ... the only silver lining, I guess, was his defense on CP3 in the few minutes at the end that I caught ... seemed effective there ... |
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the association
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| Posted: Sat May 02, 2015 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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I'm guessing it's prisoner-of-the-moment thinking in the wake of the Spurs loss tonight, but the production I saw from Kawhi over the past two games (and even parts of Games 1 and 5) was deeply disappointing ... and now I'm second-guessing my thought re: his appeal around the league.
He seems to have significant work to do this offseason to step up the consistency of his game and fill out the areas that are preventing him from playing more like Games 2 - 4 on a regular basis, and less like Games 6 and 7. I'm not sure if his aversion to attention is an asset in this situation or so, but I hope so for his sake ... it's going to be a long offseason for the Spurs re-thinking their play against the Pelicans in the final game of the regular season.
Two games, both games I had to frag my position afterward ... |
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