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the association
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Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 1982
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 Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| EchoZulu wrote: | | the association wrote: | | EchoZulu wrote: | | the association wrote: | | EchoZulu wrote: | | Telleris wrote: | | W_lakers4life_W wrote: | | nevitt_smrek wrote: | | No foul call on Lebron on late shot clock drive by Harden? Is this a joke? |
I thought it was a vintage harden flop trying to get the call...he basically held james arm and acted like he was held by him  |
What about that looked like a flop to you? it was either a hold or a hook, neither player reacted much at all other than bewilderment |
This. You have to call something/anything on that. |
A call on LeBron on that exchange would have been preposterous ... not sure how it might have been called an offensive foul, but watch the replay 10 or 20x and explain how it could have possibly been anything other than that ... |
Then you call it a bleeping offensive hold. I've seen that type of call many times. |
Is "offensive hold" in the rulebook? |
Idk. Check for it yourself. Bottom line is that those type of fouls on the offensive player have been called before. Just not today. |
Yeah, it was a rhetorical question anyway. But I didn't assert that I'd seen it called many times, so I figured maybe you had crossed the streams with another rule.
Houston isn't likely to survive the WC playoff rounds anyway, but it should be interesting to see how Harden survives in the later playoff rounds when the officials tend to swallow their whistles ... |
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Telleris
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Joined: 28 May 2013
Posts: 2371
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| the association wrote: | | Telleris wrote: | | the association wrote: | 8 missed free throws, 20 missed shots, 4 turnovers, he failed to finish time and again on drive after drive when he had a chance to close-out the game ... and despite all of that, LeBron still looks like the best player in the world by a significant margin ...
Good game, though somewhat meaningless without Dwight and Kyrie on the court (and Marion might have been helpful for the Cavs today, too) ... |
If Harden and Lebron switched lines, Cleveland would have won that game by double figures, they were really only in it because they absolutely annihilated Houston on the boards. |
Wait, are you suggesting that swapping each player onto the other's team would have resulted in a double-digit loss for LeBron's Rockets? Or better still, are you suggesting that Harden is a better player? If so (on either), I don't know that I buy that ...
I think LeBron played like garbage by his standards, which says a lot ... |
Thompson's offensive rebounding was the primary reason why Cleveland's bench killed Houston's and the efficiency difference between Harden and Lebron was the primary reason that Houston's starters were better than Cleveland's.
Cleveland had 24 more shots and 12 less free throws (2 of them deliberate), meanwhile Lebron had 17 more shots and 7 less free throws (2 of them deliberate) for 4 more points, I have no idea what we use as better (at full throttle Lebron is better than anyone no doubt) but as far as who was more valuable or better on that day, Harden was and he basically had to make up 75% of a very large handicap (Jones over Love the rest) in order for his team to win, and he did.
It wasn't a great game by either of them, but the intensity was so high that the defense probably played a large part of it, very few teams have multiple wing defenders of the length that can switch and still bother Lebron like those guys.
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I believe everything the media tells me except for anything for which I have direct personal knowledge, which they always get wrong |
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the association
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Joined: 03 Feb 2015
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Telleris wrote: | | the association wrote: | | Telleris wrote: | | the association wrote: | 8 missed free throws, 20 missed shots, 4 turnovers, he failed to finish time and again on drive after drive when he had a chance to close-out the game ... and despite all of that, LeBron still looks like the best player in the world by a significant margin ...
Good game, though somewhat meaningless without Dwight and Kyrie on the court (and Marion might have been helpful for the Cavs today, too) ... |
If Harden and Lebron switched lines, Cleveland would have won that game by double figures, they were really only in it because they absolutely annihilated Houston on the boards. |
Wait, are you suggesting that swapping each player onto the other's team would have resulted in a double-digit loss for LeBron's Rockets? Or better still, are you suggesting that Harden is a better player? If so (on either), I don't know that I buy that ...
I think LeBron played like garbage by his standards, which says a lot ... |
Thompson's offensive rebounding was the primary reason why Cleveland's bench killed Houston's and the efficiency difference between Harden and Lebron was the primary reason that Houston's starters were better than Cleveland's.
Cleveland had 24 more shots and 12 less free throws (2 of them deliberate), meanwhile Lebron had 17 more shots and 7 less free throws (2 of them deliberate) for 4 more points, I have no idea what we use as better (at full throttle Lebron is better than anyone no doubt) but as far as who was more valuable, Harden was and he basically had to make up 75% of a very large handicap (Jones over Love the rest) in order for his team to win, and he did.
It wasn't a great game by either of them, but the intensity was so high that the defense probably played a large part of it, very few teams have multiple wing defenders of the length that can switch and still bother Lebron like those guys. |
Yeah, Tristan's offensive board work has been phenomenal this year ...
I'd suggest that box scores have more value to me than most, but stepping outside the box score in this case is probably required since the delta between LeBron's defense and Harden's is massive ... both within the flow of the game and in terms of individual plays that have a reverberation when it comes to momentum swings ...
Agreed that both played poorly today ... the cause of LeBron's poor play seemed to me very obviously a matter of fatigue; Harden's poor play seemed like a function of his playing in the shadow of a much better player ...
The last issue I would highlight is that hypothetical player swaps don't often work as simply as "unplug here, plug in there" ... the recursive effect of LeBron's style and manner of play on his teams is much more impactful than just about any other player in NBA history ... |
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Dreamshake
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Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13711
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| the association wrote: |
Agreed that both played poorly today ... the cause of LeBron's poor play seemed to me very obviously a matter of fatigue; Harden's poor play seemed like a function of his playing in the shadow of a much better player ... |
Harden played poorly? 33/8/5/3/2 on 44%?
LeBron's poor play is because of fatigue, when he sat out the last game? |
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Telleris
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Joined: 28 May 2013
Posts: 2371
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| EchoZulu wrote: | | the association wrote: | | EchoZulu wrote: | | the association wrote: | | EchoZulu wrote: | | Telleris wrote: | | W_lakers4life_W wrote: | | nevitt_smrek wrote: | | No foul call on Lebron on late shot clock drive by Harden? Is this a joke? |
I thought it was a vintage harden flop trying to get the call...he basically held james arm and acted like he was held by him |
What about that looked like a flop to you? it was either a hold or a hook, neither player reacted much at all other than bewilderment |
This. You have to call something/anything on that. |
A call on LeBron on that exchange would have been preposterous ... not sure how it might have been called an offensive foul, but watch the replay 10 or 20x and explain how it could have possibly been anything other than that ... |
Then you call it a bleeping offensive hold. I've seen that type of call many times. |
Is "offensive hold" in the rulebook? |
Idk. Check for it yourself. Bottom line is that those type of fouls on the offensive player have been called before. Just not today. |
There's basically only 4 fouls in basketball, hold, push, defensively block and offensively charge, they incorporate a lot of things though.
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I believe everything the media tells me except for anything for which I have direct personal knowledge, which they always get wrong |
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the association
Star Player
Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 1982
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: | | the association wrote: |
Agreed that both played poorly today ... the cause of LeBron's poor play seemed to me very obviously a matter of fatigue; Harden's poor play seemed like a function of his playing in the shadow of a much better player ... |
Harden played poorly? 33/8/5/3/2 on 44%?
LeBron's poor play is because of fatigue, when he sat out the last game? |
I wasn't dazzled by Harden's play; maybe you were? I've seen him play much better ... and I'm unclear why you're touting 44% like it's some sort of badge of achievement. Try pulling those numbers on 50%+ shooting if you want a slight tip of the cap from me ... 18 free throws is excessive and it seemed like many of the calls were dubious (nothing new, of course).
As for LeBron's fatigue, I believe his extraordinary physical exertion in many games often results in poor play and sometimes decision making at the end of those games ... taking a game or multiple games off doesn't impact that track record. He didn't have a game for how many more days before Game 1 of last year's Finals? And did you hear how he cramped up and sat out the critical portion where San Antonio wrested the lead (and as it turned out, probably the momentum that swung the series)?
A game off is irrelevant ... the real absurdity is that LeBron hasn't figured out how to regulate his exertion in 12 seasons so he's able to play at near peak level in the final moments of a game ...
Last edited by the association on Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| the association wrote: |
I wasn't dazzled by Harden's play; maybe you were? |
Nope, but he didn't play poorly.
| the association wrote: | | As for LeBron's fatigue, I believe his extraordinary physical exertion in many games often results in poor play and sometimes decision making at the end of those games ... taking a game or multiple games off doesn't impact that track record. He didn't have a game for how many more days before Game 1 of last year's Finals? And did you hear how he cramped up and sat out the critical portion where San Antonio wrested the lead (and as it turned out, probably the momentum that swung the series)? |
LeBron wasn't fatigued. He has had plenty of rest since his last game. We just have a ton of longer defenders and he shot poorly. |
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the association
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: | | the association wrote: |
I wasn't dazzled by Harden's play; maybe you were? |
Nope, but he didn't play poorly.
| the association wrote: | | As for LeBron's fatigue, I believe his extraordinary physical exertion in many games often results in poor play and sometimes decision making at the end of those games ... taking a game or multiple games off doesn't impact that track record. He didn't have a game for how many more days before Game 1 of last year's Finals? And did you hear how he cramped up and sat out the critical portion where San Antonio wrested the lead (and as it turned out, probably the momentum that swung the series)? |
LeBron wasn't fatigued. He has had plenty of rest since his last game. We just have a ton of longer defenders and he shot poorly. |
Were those longer defenders grinding on him at the FT line, too? |
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Telleris
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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So when Lebron gets outplayed he doesn't because something something, gotcha.
Lebron was playing to look like he should win mvp (and it was so in his head, his free throws under pressure got to him), Harden was playing to actually win the game.
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I believe everything the media tells me except for anything for which I have direct personal knowledge, which they always get wrong |
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the association
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Telleris wrote: | So when Lebron gets outplayed he doesn't because something something, gotcha.
Lebron was playing to look like he should win mvp, Harden was playing to actually win the game. |
I don't feel inclined to defend a guy who has four of 'em. Feel free to think whatever you want; I certainly will ... |
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the association
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Posts: 1982
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Telleris wrote: | So when Lebron gets outplayed he doesn't because something something, gotcha.
Lebron was playing to look like he should win mvp (and it was so in his head, his free throws under pressure got to him), Harden was playing to actually win the game. |
"There is no excuse. I missed free throws," James said. "I missed the two biggest ones of the game to put us up with seconds on the clock and I didn't come through. I failed my teammates."
So there you go. He was not only outplayed (by Houston? by Harden? by Trevor?), but he acknowledged that he came up small ...
OK, that's it for me ... have a great night. |
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Telleris
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| the association wrote: | | Telleris wrote: | So when Lebron gets outplayed he doesn't because something something, gotcha.
Lebron was playing to look like he should win mvp, Harden was playing to actually win the game. |
I don't feel inclined to defend a guy who has four of 'em. Feel free to think whatever you want; I certainly will ... |
Do you usually do things and then claim you don't or is that just for today?
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I believe everything the media tells me except for anything for which I have direct personal knowledge, which they always get wrong |
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Dreamshake
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Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13711
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| the association wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | the association wrote: |
I wasn't dazzled by Harden's play; maybe you were? |
Nope, but he didn't play poorly.
| the association wrote: | | As for LeBron's fatigue, I believe his extraordinary physical exertion in many games often results in poor play and sometimes decision making at the end of those games ... taking a game or multiple games off doesn't impact that track record. He didn't have a game for how many more days before Game 1 of last year's Finals? And did you hear how he cramped up and sat out the critical portion where San Antonio wrested the lead (and as it turned out, probably the momentum that swung the series)? |
LeBron wasn't fatigued. He has had plenty of rest since his last game. We just have a ton of longer defenders and he shot poorly. |
Were those longer defenders grinding on him at the FT line, too? |
Nope. Hence me saying "he shot poorly". |
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the association
Star Player
Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 1982
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| Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| Telleris wrote: | | the association wrote: | | Telleris wrote: | So when Lebron gets outplayed he doesn't because something something, gotcha.
Lebron was playing to look like he should win mvp, Harden was playing to actually win the game. |
I don't feel inclined to defend a guy who has four of 'em. Feel free to think whatever you want; I certainly will ... |
Do you usually do things and then claim you don't or is that just for today? |
Oh yeah, I'm happily going to make an exception to my overarching policy of disregarding false accusations by the lesser informed. But maybe just this once ...
I highlighted some of the statistics underlying his poor performance, indicated that he came up small in this game over and over again, that he played like garbage by his standards, that he played poorly, and then I went on to opine:
"As for LeBron's fatigue, I believe his extraordinary physical exertion in many games often results in poor play and sometimes decision making at the end of those games ... taking a game or multiple games off doesn't impact that track record. He didn't have a game for how many more days before Game 1 of last year's Finals? And did you hear how he cramped up and sat out the critical portion where San Antonio wrested the lead (and as it turned out, probably the momentum that swung the series)?
A game off is irrelevant ... the real absurdity is that LeBron hasn't figured out how to regulate his exertion in 12 seasons so he's able to play at near peak level in the final moments of a game ..."
Unlike you (apparently), I have no agenda built around a sacred cow who wouldn't give someone at my station in life the time of day ... if the position I took above in this thread struck you as "defending him", I suggest you spend a moment looking up the term "defend" in the nearest dictionary you might stumble upon. And after you edify yourself thoroughly, feel free to disregard my posts in the future. I will certainly do the same vis-a-vis yours. However, don't let that stop you from getting in a last word or two; I'm supremely confident it will be as novel and insightful as everything else I came across in reviewing your past body of work herein. Adieu ... |
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mhan00
Retired Number
Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 32059
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| Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Wow, what an end to the Warriors Nets game. Jack and Curry just trading clutch baskets in the fourth with Jack getting the last word. |
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BT
Starting Rotation
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 765
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:59 am Post subject: |
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Please, check this fan reaction when Len and Whiteside started their sissy brawl.
https://vine.co/v/O0e6hUWzw2q
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GoldenThroat
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Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| the association wrote: | | Telleris wrote: | | the association wrote: | | Telleris wrote: | So when Lebron gets outplayed he doesn't because something something, gotcha.
Lebron was playing to look like he should win mvp, Harden was playing to actually win the game. |
I don't feel inclined to defend a guy who has four of 'em. Feel free to think whatever you want; I certainly will ... |
Do you usually do things and then claim you don't or is that just for today? |
Oh yeah, I'm happily going to make an exception to my overarching policy of disregarding false accusations by the lesser informed. But maybe just this once ...
I highlighted some of the statistics underlying his poor performance, indicated that he came up small in this game over and over again, that he played like garbage by his standards, that he played poorly, and then I went on to opine:
"As for LeBron's fatigue, I believe his extraordinary physical exertion in many games often results in poor play and sometimes decision making at the end of those games ... taking a game or multiple games off doesn't impact that track record. He didn't have a game for how many more days before Game 1 of last year's Finals? And did you hear how he cramped up and sat out the critical portion where San Antonio wrested the lead (and as it turned out, probably the momentum that swung the series)?
A game off is irrelevant ... the real absurdity is that LeBron hasn't figured out how to regulate his exertion in 12 seasons so he's able to play at near peak level in the final moments of a game ..."
Unlike you (apparently), I have no agenda built around a sacred cow who wouldn't give someone at my station in life the time of day ... if the position I took above in this thread struck you as "defending him", I suggest you spend a moment looking up the term "defend" in the nearest dictionary you might stumble upon. And after you edify yourself thoroughly, feel free to disregard my posts in the future. I will certainly do the same vis-a-vis yours. However, don't let that stop you from getting in a last word or two; I'm supremely confident it will be as novel and insightful as everything else I came across in reviewing your past body of work herein. Adieu ... |
Both of you need to knock it off. |
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Hard_Butter
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Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Posts: 12228
Location: The Two One Three
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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Old ass people trip me out....reminds me of THIS.
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The butter's hard and the eggs are chillin' in the dark.
Kiss my Converse. |
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danzag
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Joined: 28 Apr 2013
Posts: 22313
Location: Brazil
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| EchoZulu wrote: |
Old ass people trip me out....reminds me of THIS. |
Don't know if you realized that, since it's in portuguese, but both men are MUTE
Just screaming, not saying anything |
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the association
Star Player
Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 1982
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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Westbrook's been playing at an "elite" level lately; but tonight's game? Greatest masked performance since The Dark Knight ...
He keeps this up and it might start to rattle a guy like Durant, a guy who has grown accustomed to the lion's share of attention in that part of flyover country ... |
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Lakers95
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Posts: 20880
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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 Deandre Jordan at the end of regulation of this Blazers/Clippers game. One of the funniest things I've EVER seen in the NBA.
CP3's reaction was gold.
Last edited by Lakers95 on Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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eureca
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Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Posts: 15824
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakers95 wrote: | | Deandre Jordan at the end of regulation of this Blazers/Clippers game. One of the funniest things I've EVER seen in the NBA. |
That Chris Paul reaction was definitely GIF worthy. Actually reminds me of Kobe having to run to half court to foul Lin's guy for him.
Last edited by eureca on Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Lakers95
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Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| eureca wrote: | | Lakers95 wrote: | | Deandre Jordan at the end of regulation of this Blazers/Clippers game. One of the funniest things I've EVER seen in the NBA. |
That Chris Paul reaction was definitely GIF worthy. |
That has to be Shaqtin' a fool of the year. |
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eureca
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Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Posts: 15824
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Jordan misses 6 straight free throws at the end of the 4th. And he doesn't put back an easy dunk for the win at the buzzer. He definitely blew this one. |
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leor_77
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Joined: 23 Mar 2012
Posts: 21920
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| This Clippers team has no balls. I honestly don't care if they do well or if they fail, but they are mental midgets when things get tough. |
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