| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58344
|
 Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:19 pm Post subject: You swing for a homerun, you hit some, you miss some. Mitch's strategy. |
|
|
This has been Mitch's strategy for a long time.
Don't understand the massive panic in being 0-2 with this roster.
You can argue about Isiah, Lance etc. All reasonable arguments. But the Lakers GM is a guy who delivered Pau, Dwight, CP 3 (almost) and Nash (when he was an all-star) using this strategy.
I understand the complaints about coaching.
I don't get the complaints with the roster. The Lakers had 2 choices. 1) go for the big moves or 2) go for the other smaller scale FA's. Considering they have about 0 big fish right now, I totally understand swinging for a homerun.
Don't be so quick to dismiss Mitch and the Hill/Lin contracts. A trade may come up sooner than later. The #1 thing we need right now is a young in prime star. Could Lin/Hill/picks get us that? Long shot. But so was Pau, so was getting Dwight or even CP3.
Patience is required regarding the roster. In terms of coaching? Different story. The consistently bad coaching hires continues from our FAV team's FO. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
nslander32
Starting Rotation
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 864
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:22 pm Post subject: Re: You swing for a homerun, you hit some, you miss some. Mitch's strategy. |
|
|
| wolfpaclaker wrote: | This has been Mitch's strategy for a long time.
Don't understand the massive panic in being 0-2 with this roster.
You can argue about Isiah, Lance etc. All reasonable arguments. But the Lakers GM is a guy who delivered Pau, Dwight, CP 3 (almost) and Nash (when he was an all-star) using this strategy.
I understand the complaints about coaching.
I don't get the complaints with the roster. The Lakers had 2 choices. 1) go for the big moves or 2) go for the other smaller scale FA's. Considering they have about 0 big fish right now, I totally understand swinging for a homerun.
Don't be so quick to dismiss Mitch and the Hill/Lin contracts. A trade may come up sooner than later. The #1 thing we need right now is a young in prime star. Could Lin/Hill/picks get us that? Long shot. But so was Pau, so was getting Dwight or even CP3.
Patience is required regarding the roster. In terms of coaching? Different story. The consistently bad coaching hires continues from our FAV team's FO. |
Swing hard in case you hit it. He got that from JW, |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakerLand247
Star Player
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 4809
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:22 pm Post subject: Re: You swing for a homerun, you hit some, you miss some. Mitch's strategy. |
|
|
| wolfpaclaker wrote: | This has been Mitch's strategy for a long time.
Don't understand the massive panic in being 0-2 with this roster.
You can argue about Isiah, Lance etc. All reasonable arguments. But the Lakers GM is a guy who delivered Pau, Dwight, CP 3 (almost) and Nash (when he was an all-star) using this strategy.
I understand the complaints about coaching.
I don't get the complaints with the roster. The Lakers had 2 choices. 1) go for the big moves or 2) go for the other smaller scale FA's. Considering they have about 0 big fish right now, I totally understand swinging for a homerun.
Don't be so quick to dismiss Mitch and the Hill/Lin contracts. A trade may come up sooner than later. The #1 thing we need right now is a young in prime star. Could Lin/Hill/picks get us that? Long shot. But so was Pau, so was getting Dwight or even CP3.
Patience is required regarding the roster. In terms of coaching? Different story. The consistently bad coaching hires continues from our FAV team's FO. |
Only for Durant, Antonio Davis or Lebron other than that Hell no to trading away more picks. We're rebuilding therefore we need to keep all our picks. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
K0BEE 2.0
Franchise Player
Joined: 17 May 2013
Posts: 10949
Location: I wish I knew
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Let's be honest we have no idea how bad that CP3 veto really hurt the franchise.... because they were working on that deal for months/years when they got screwed over....
sooner or later the ball is gonna bounce on the Lakers side... we just have to hope.... the management has a plan. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jim99187
Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Jan 2014
Posts: 22138
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:27 pm Post subject: Re: You swing for a homerun, you hit some, you miss some. Mitch's strategy. |
|
|
| wolfpaclaker wrote: | This has been Mitch's strategy for a long time.
Don't understand the massive panic in being 0-2 with this roster.
You can argue about Isiah, Lance etc. All reasonable arguments. But the Lakers GM is a guy who delivered Pau, Dwight, CP 3 (almost) and Nash (when he was an all-star) using this strategy.
I understand the complaints about coaching.
I don't get the complaints with the roster. The Lakers had 2 choices. 1) go for the big moves or 2) go for the other smaller scale FA's. Considering they have about 0 big fish right now, I totally understand swinging for a homerun.
Don't be so quick to dismiss Mitch and the Hill/Lin contracts. A trade may come up sooner than later. The #1 thing we need right now is a young in prime star. Could Lin/Hill/picks get us that? Long shot. But so was Pau, so was getting Dwight or even CP3.
Patience is required regarding the roster. In terms of coaching? Different story. The consistently bad coaching hires continues from our FAV team's FO. |
your argument lacks the point that we had assets to make those deals. right now we don't have anything. thats the point.
with so many of the players on 1yr deal and a rookie out for a yr, we are not getting anything.
Also the LA aura has gone. Love went 2 Cleveland to win title cause he knows he will get paid and also will have the media coverage.
time to have 2014 strategy instead of the 1 that was great when LA was prime time location and we had assets |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58344
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well the point is, I dont think Lin/pick and Hill were brought in for longterm vision. They were brought in to possibly help now and mainly be part of some sort of potential trade down the road.
There's no way you win rings without HOF talent, in prime. It's rare, and almost never happens. Lakers went for the HOF talent. They will continue to do so. I support that. I think we all should. That's what makes the Lakers, the Lakers.
Now the coaching hires, letting Jackson walk etc all that. That's just shooting yourself in the foot. Criticism deserved for Mitch and co. But roster? Being 0-2. I think we've got to give them more time. This is a re-build project. It will take years. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dcarter4kobe
Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 17679
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Still can't make sense of not going after Stephenson & Bledsoe when you could of probably had both. They aren't superstars, but all star caliber players. Combined with Randle you have a core to build on plus a max slot to swing for the fences again in 2016
_________________
"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though."
Last edited by dcarter4kobe on Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ch3cky0selff00
Star Player
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 4392
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Its frustrating watching this product.. but I love the Lakers too much to stop watching.
My hope is that Lakers end up getting a top 5 pick (they get to keep) and either draft Towns or Okafor or trade it to acquire a second star.
The Lakers have assets (somewhat) now.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakerLanny
Retired Number
Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 47581
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I hear you Wolf, but you have to weigh the chances of getting LeBron and factor that into your thinking.
Is it realistic (say 3% chance or less) of getting LeBron at the expense of not getting obtainable players like say Isiah Thomas, Lance Stephenson, etc.?
It is a risky game to play coming off the worst season in team history at the ticket prices the Lakers are charging. Think Time Warner was happy to see viewership drop off by 75% last season? What do you think the drop will be this season?
Rebuilding is one thing, playing with no effort on defense for 1 year and now 2 games is getting old quick. There are business concerns here also, they need to completely commit to a rebuild and start building a talented young team THEN get the max contract free agent.
Bottom line is this team is in dire straits for the forseeable future and Mitch 's plan (if there is one) is severely flawed.
_________________
Love, Laker Lanny |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
USCandLakers
Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 19955
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The only bright spot is that Jeanie has given this regime 3 years, with this being the first. You don't know how much of a relief it is to know that the clock is ticking on Jim/Mitch and that they wont be here doing what they've been doing for the past few years forever. It's nice to know that their power is not unchecked. That's exactly what I wanted to hear, and that's all I care about at this point.
_________________
A banana is killed every time a terrible thread or post is made.  Save the bananas. Stop creating terrible posts! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nevitt_smrek
Star Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 2803
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The Lakers will eventually be back. It just won't happen overnight.
_________________
Smrek 2, Nevitt 1, Barkley 0 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jim99187
Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Jan 2014
Posts: 22138
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| wolfpaclaker wrote: | Well the point is, I dont think Lin/pick and Hill were brought in for longterm vision. They were brought in to possibly help now and mainly be part of some sort of potential trade down the road.
There's no way you win rings without HOF talent, in prime. It's rare, and almost never happens. Lakers went for the HOF talent. They will continue to do so. I support that. I think we all should. That's what makes the Lakers, the Lakers.
Now the coaching hires, letting Jackson walk etc all that. That's just shooting yourself in the foot. Criticism deserved for Mitch and co. But roster? Being 0-2. I think we've got to give them more time. This is a re-build project. It will take years. |
I think you are missing the point where we need tradeable assets to get good players back. we had bynum who was all star and was young and showed tons of potential.
we need to have talent on the roster to bring in players through free agency or through any kind of trade.
if u r going to trade lin/hill/1st all average assets you are going to get average talent in return. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakerLand247
Star Player
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 4809
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| USCandLakers wrote: | | The only bright spot is that Jeanie has given this regime 3 years, with this being the first. You don't know how much of a relief it is to know that the clock is ticking on Jim/Mitch and that they wont be here doing what they've been doing for the past few years forever. It's nice to know that their power is not unchecked. That's exactly what I wanted to hear, and that's all I care about at this point. |
Would she really fire her brother? I have my doubts. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Capt.Skyhook
Star Player
Joined: 29 Feb 2004
Posts: 3991
Location: Louisville, Ky.
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| You can also score a run with a few singles. The FO had enough money to go for a single and double after they struck out swinging on Melo. Instead, they just sat in the dugout and decided not to play any more. The result is this Double A team we are being subjected to. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jim99187
Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Jan 2014
Posts: 22138
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| dcarter4kobe wrote: | | Still can't make sense of not going after Stephenson & Bledsoe when you could of probably had both. They aren't superstars, but all star caliber players. Combined with Randle you have a core to build on plus a max slot to swing for the fences again in 2016 |
plus u sign them on reasonable contract and they become traceable assets almost immediately.
much better with that strategy then signing 1 yr cap fodders |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58344
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
For sure you have a much lower shot at players like Melo, Lebron etc. vs the guys like Bledsoe, Isiah etc.
I totally agree. But the Lakers won't win a title with Isiah Thomas, Bledsoe and some other decent starters. You need that big fish that gets it all rolling.
I think once LA is able to land that player (and it doesn't have to be more than a top 20 player) you'll see them shift strategy completely.
What they can't afford to do is what Dumars did all those years with the Pistons after he won a title. You know fill the roster out with starters on big K's and no star. It'll be a disaster.
All I'm saying is have some patience with the roster. This isn't Mitch's end game. No way. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jonnybravo
Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 30704
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| wolfpaclaker wrote: | For sure you have a much lower shot at players like Melo, Lebron etc. vs the guys like Bledsoe, Isiah etc.
I totally agree. But the Lakers won't win a title with Isiah Thomas, Bledsoe and some other decent starters. You need that big fish that gets it all rolling.
I think once LA is able to land that player (and it doesn't have to be more than a top 20 player) you'll see them shift strategy completely.
What they can't afford to do is what Dumars did all those years with the Pistons after he won a title. You know fill the roster out with starters on big K's and no star. It'll be a disaster.
All I'm saying is have some patience with the roster. This isn't Mitch's end game. No way. |
Wolf, Shaq would never, EVER have come to the Lakers in 1996 if this was the roster he was walking into.
I get the idea that your team wins via the superstars but right now, the cupboards are BARE. We hvae Kobe ...and?
Let's see in 2015/2016. If we have no 2nd tier players, no 3rd tier player, does anyone in there truly think Westbrook or Durant would even consider coming here? Really?
The selling point then would be ...let me guess.
1. We're the Lakers!
2. We promise to build a roster around you.
These are the Lakers, so I'm definitely going to be patient (been around for 3 decades so what's 3 more) but the philosophy needs to be modified. You're acting like it's black and white in terms of 2nd/3rd tier players...that it's either overpaying or not getting them. That's just not true and this off-season had fantastic bargains to be had. You can't squander those opportunities.
You HAVE to have something in the cupboards or no top tier guy is coming. That's an enormous fact you're ignoring. I absolutely shudder if that's the idea the FO continues to cling on to. They're smarter than that. I hope.
Last edited by jonnybravo on Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:48 pm; edited 3 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dave20
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2013
Posts: 11333
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Mitch has been good at trading but doesn't value draft picks which has hurt the team. Once Byron is fired in 2 years, I think Mitch will be gone as well. They'll bring in a GM who values draft picks and knows how to build through the draft. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nevitt_smrek
Star Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 2803
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| wolfpaclaker wrote: | For sure you have a much lower shot at players like Melo, Lebron etc. vs the guys like Bledsoe, Isiah etc.
I totally agree. But the Lakers won't win a title with Isiah Thomas, Bledsoe and some other decent starters. You need that big fish that gets it all rolling.
I think once LA is able to land that player (and it doesn't have to be more than a top 20 player) you'll see them shift strategy completely.
What they can't afford to do is what Dumars did all those years with the Pistons after he won a title. You know fill the roster out with starters on big K's and no star. It'll be a disaster.
All I'm saying is have some patience with the roster. This isn't Mitch's end game. No way. |
Exactly. 5-years 70M for Bledsoe would be horrific on a level that's similar to those Villaneuva and Ben Gordon moves.
_________________
Smrek 2, Nevitt 1, Barkley 0 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheBlackMamba
Star Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 9057
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LakerLanny wrote: | I hear you Wolf, but you have to weigh the chances of getting LeBron and factor that into your thinking.
Is it realistic (say 3% chance or less) of getting LeBron at the expense of not getting obtainable players like say Isiah Thomas, Lance Stephenson, etc.?
It is a risky game to play coming off the worst season in team history at the ticket prices the Lakers are charging. Think Time Warner was happy to see viewership drop off by 75% last season? What do you think the drop will be this season?
Rebuilding is one thing, playing with no effort on defense for 1 year and now 2 games is getting old quick. There are business concerns here also, they need to completely commit to a rebuild and start building a talented young team THEN get the max contract free agent.
Bottom line is this team is in dire straits for the forseeable future and Mitch 's plan (if there is one) is severely flawed. |
This. I get the homerun argument, but you also have to note that all the great moves the FO pulled off were before the new CBA rules took effect (I believe the limitations on sign-and-trades didn't take effect until last year). We also had all of our picks when we made those moves.
At some point the FO has to realize that it can't rebuild the team overnight like the old days. Free agents are more selective than ever, and we're not going to be able to attract the big guns just because we're the Lakers. To get those guys, we're going to have put some smaller pieces in place that make us an attractive destination first, not just rely on the city of LA and all the old championship banners and trophies to lure FAs. That (bleep) means nothing to guys who are looking to win now and don't even need the LA market to develop their personal brand.
As of right now, we only have one of those smaller pieces, and he's out for the year. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dcarter4kobe
Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 17679
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I would of rather took Bledsoe+Stephenson over Melo at 24M a year. Easily
_________________
"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| K0BEE 2.0 wrote: | Let's be honest we have no idea how bad that CP3 veto really hurt the franchise.... because they were working on that deal for months/years when they got screwed over....
sooner or later the ball is gonna bounce on the Lakers side... we just have to hope.... the management has a plan. |
They were working on the CP3 deal for years? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jim99187
Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Jan 2014
Posts: 22138
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| wolfpaclaker wrote: | For sure you have a much lower shot at players like Melo, Lebron etc. vs the guys like Bledsoe, Isiah etc.
I totally agree. But the Lakers won't win a title with Isiah Thomas, Bledsoe and some other decent starters. You need that big fish that gets it all rolling.
I think once LA is able to land that player (and it doesn't have to be more than a top 20 player) you'll see them shift strategy completely.
What they can't afford to do is what Dumars did all those years with the Pistons after he won a title. You know fill the roster out with starters on big K's and no star. It'll be a disaster.
All I'm saying is have some patience with the roster. This isn't Mitch's end game. No way. |
I agree with us not winning title with thomas, bledsoe but what i am trying to say is they become instant assets to get another big time asset.
there is no single strategy that works |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dxdx
Sixth Man
Joined: 28 Oct 2014
Posts: 70
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
strategy only works if the asset you hedge with has intrinsic value, and potential value that is not yet recognised.
However, this runs in contradiction with the brand of basketball we play now. You either get a doofus to act as the figurehead while you ultimately implement your principles (ie, Rocket's Moreyball and McHale), or you get someone who understands this vision and can work parallel to you.
B Scott's style clearly doesn't help in realising these ideals since it is so adamant on reducing the variance (ie, play more defense, shoot less 3s). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jim99187
Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Jan 2014
Posts: 22138
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| dcarter4kobe wrote: | | I would of rather took Bledsoe+Stephenson over Melo at 24M a year. Easily |
we would be so much better with a lineup of bledsoe, kobe, stephenson then the current crap. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
