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LAL32
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Joined: 29 Oct 2014
Posts: 16
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 Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Is it ever appropriate to criticize Kobe? Is he ever wrong? Jesus, some of you make it seem like it's punishable by death to say something bad about the man. He isn't perfect. Neither was Magic or Kareem. |
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ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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Just want to see this team come together. Every year, there seems to be a whipping boy. If it's not Lamar, it's Pau. Now they're gone and I really don't want to see Jeremy being the one gets called out for not wearing his big boy pants (even if/when it is warranted). This is a team effort. It starts with Byron and both Lin and Kobe. The three of them need to figure this out.
For instance ... where is Kobe in the post? Why isn't Kobe playing off ball more? Those are questions I've have for Byron.
Byron needs to make adjustments. Kobe needs to make adjustments. Lin needs to make adjustments.
On defense you have Wesley Johnson trying to guard a point guard all game. WHAT?
You take all these issues, at varying points within the roster and system, and that's how you lose by an average margin of 19 points. It's just not as simple as yeah Jeremy run da offense man. I wish it were that simple but the blame (for lack of a better word) is on everyone, not just Jeremy. |
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ROTL
Starting Rotation
Joined: 28 Sep 2014
Posts: 211
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| LAL32 wrote: | | Is it ever appropriate to criticize Kobe? Is he ever wrong? Jesus, some of you make it seem like it's punishable by death to say something bad about the man. He isn't perfect. Neither was Magic or Kareem. |
Not when that criticism is based on fallacy, which more often than not it is. |
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LakeShow06
Star Player
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 2176
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakersprime wrote: | We should try the following:
Lin, pg
Ellington, sg (his shooting percentage improved after concussion somehow)
Kobe, sf
Davis, pf
Hill, C |
You THIS is what I'm talking about. I'm down with this and said so in another thread (RE: Boozer I think). Davis with Hill upfront, Davis gets most of the plays, Hill does what he does, rebounds and mops up misses.
Ellington (or maybe Henry) has to come in at SG/SF and just be interchangeable on the wing with Kobe. Wes Johnson is just a black hole on both sides of the ball, but particularly on offense. He has had his chances.
_________________
"We might have had the worst season ever or could have the worst season ever for a Lakers team, but now let's have the greatest comeback that the league has ever seen." - Kobe Bryant |
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kinein
Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Jul 2014
Posts: 274
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| drzucchini wrote: | | LAL32 wrote: | Thank you. Kobe's need to get his shots up and his constant demanding of the ball is part of the problem, yet there is no acknowledgement from Kobe when it comes to that.
How about a simple..."Hey Jeremy we need more from you, I will do my part by stepping back a little and letting you do your thing from time to time." |
There's no reason to handle Lin with kid gloves. |
agreed. I liked how Kobe endorsed Lin and gave him the greenlight. |
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kinein
Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Jul 2014
Posts: 274
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| LAL32 wrote: | | Is it ever appropriate to criticize Kobe? Is he ever wrong? Jesus, some of you make it seem like it's punishable by death to say something bad about the man. He isn't perfect. Neither was Magic or Kareem. |
no it is not appropriate  This is KOBE. THE BLACK MAMBA. |
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bws94
Star Player
Joined: 28 Oct 2014
Posts: 1563
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| shark-lin wrote: | | Its an endorsement from Kobe. The other guys need to listen when Lin demands a play. I believe they will improve but will it be enough to beat the Clippers in the next game? |
Not likely, unless the Clippers play poorly. But they need to be more competitive and not have the 4th be garbage time. |
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LakerLanny
Retired Number
Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 47578
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds good Kobe, but who is going to run the defense?
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Love, Laker Lanny |
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Tonnny
Sixth Man
Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Posts: 92
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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With the 2 poor games of Lin, people around will start doubting Lin's credential to be a starting PG, Scott may even think of shifting Price back to start PG.
Kobe called out Lin to run the team immediately end those potential arguments, telling others that he is on Lin's side. |
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Jeggs
Star Player
Joined: 14 Oct 2013
Posts: 1659
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | drzucchini wrote: | | LAL32 wrote: | Thank you. Kobe's need to get his shots up and his constant demanding of the ball is part of the problem, yet there is no acknowledgement from Kobe when it comes to that.
How about a simple..."Hey Jeremy we need more from you, I will do my part by stepping back a little and letting you do your thing from time to time." |
There's no reason to handle Lin with kid gloves. |
Exactly.
Kobe will demand the ball. That's what he's supposed to do. It's how he plays. Aggressive and dominating.
It's the PG's job to assess the situation and decide if they should pass the ball to Kobe, and when. If Kobe is not running a play properly, then the PG should tell him where he should be if he wants the ball next time.
Kobe will yell and scream on the court. He'll look angry. But in the end, he'll respect the hell out of you and will look at you as one of the people he can trust going to battle with. |
It's not the SG's job to yell and scream, but the reality is, that's what's going to happen.
But as the leader of this team, Kobe is going to have to go beyond the typical roles and responsibilities of a shooting guard.
I mean, I don't see other SGs typically taking 25 shots every game so there is SOME culpability there too. That's why I say, this is a team effort. It's not just Kobe gets to keep doing what he's doing and everyone else change. That's precisely the sort of thing that Abbott wants everyone to think playing with Kobe is like.
Everyone needs to work on this, together. The other players, need to get in to good position, fight hard. Lin, step up and run this machine. Kobe, dial it back a bit and let someone else drive. |
I think you are dead wrong here. It's the other players that need to adapt to playing with Kobe, not the other way around. When Kobe is in an iso situation, the rest of the team needs to be moving and cutting to the basket and stop ball watching like they do a lot of times. The problem is when Kobe has the ball everyone just stops and watch. That's not Kobe's fault. Kobe should be shooting 25-30 shots a game considering the current talent level of this team. When Nick Young comes back, then maybe we can start talking about Kobe dialing it down a tad. But other than that Kobe at the minimum, needs to put up 25 shots. |
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Mini Mamba
Star Player
Joined: 06 May 2013
Posts: 6006
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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Lin is at his best when he is aggressive and attacking the basket making a play either for himself or a teammate.
When he is tentative and defers to Kobe the offense becomes to predictable to defend and very stagnant with players standing around and watching.
Since Kobe can his his shot at any time if I were him I'd defer to Lin early in the game to get his confidence up and get him going. |
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lakersken80
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38771
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Tonnny wrote: | With the 2 poor games of Lin, people around will start doubting Lin's credential to be a starting PG, Scott may even think of shifting Price back to start PG.
Kobe called out Lin to run the team immediately end those potential arguments, telling others that he is on Lin's side. |
High pressure environment. Even though people aren't expecting much of the Lakers, the fanbase expects better. This is the environment Lin didn't encounter on the Knicks or Rockets. You put on the purple and gold and people expect results. |
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Treble Clef
Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 23881
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | Just want to see this team come together. Every year, there seems to be a whipping boy. If it's not Lamar, it's Pau. Now they're gone and I really don't want to see Jeremy being the one gets called out for not wearing his big boy pants (even if/when it is warranted). This is a team effort. It starts with Byron and both Lin and Kobe. The three of them need to figure this out.
For instance ... where is Kobe in the post? Why isn't Kobe playing off ball more? Those are questions I've have for Byron.
Byron needs to make adjustments. Kobe needs to make adjustments. Lin needs to make adjustments.
On defense you have Wesley Johnson trying to guard a point guard all game. WHAT?
You take all these issues, at varying points within the roster and system, and that's how you lose by an average margin of 19 points. It's just not as simple as yeah Jeremy run da offense man. I wish it were that simple but the blame (for lack of a better word) is on everyone, not just Jeremy. |
Pau and Odom got it because they were inconsistent at times and it was usually easier for all involved to point the fingers at them even if Kobe didnt play well either.
Jeremy Lin is probably going to become that guy because of his fanbase. It's unfortunate for him because it isn't his fault at all. |
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cheesysapien
Starting Rotation
Joined: 15 Oct 2014
Posts: 357
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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"Coming back, the beauty was in the process. So the fun part for me, the most fun part, is over. I know where I'm at now. Now it's just everybody's seeing (that he's himself). But the fun part for me is over in terms of the comeback. Now the challenges become turning Jeremy into a championship point guard, a floor general, right? And the rest of the guys having a championship spirit. That's the challenge."
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/lakers/2014/10/30/kobe-bryant-byron-scott-frustration-clippers-battle-for-los-angeles/18208143/
_________________
"We have a lot of guys that have been kinda discarded ... Myself with the injury and the age. Jeremy ... a bunch of players who other teams really felt they had no use for. So we have that kind of attitude built into ourselves" -- Kobe Bryant |
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kinein
Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Jul 2014
Posts: 274
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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I'm still loving the Lakers and excited for the next game and the rest of the season ~ Sky is the LIMIT.
Thanks for sharing I added this link to page 1/post 1 ~
EXCITED! KOBE GOTS A NEW CHALLENGE AND IF ANYONE IN THE NBA CAN DO IT HE AND BYRON CAN~ |
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Mini Mamba
Star Player
Joined: 06 May 2013
Posts: 6006
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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I thought Lin played his best in the last two preseason games. He needs to figure out a way to be assertive like that while playing with Kobe.
Lin is our most important player other than Kobe. In order for us to get wins he needs to be the catalyst of the offense. |
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dxdx
Sixth Man
Joined: 28 Oct 2014
Posts: 70
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:08 pm Post subject: Re: Kobe to Lin : You got to run the offense. - Updated - Kobe Interview USAToday |
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| kinein wrote: |
| Quote: | | "Coming back, the beauty was in the process. So the fun part for me, the most fun part, is over. I know where I'm at now. Now it's just everybody's seeing (that he's himself). But the fun part for me is over in terms of the comeback. Now the challenges become turning Jeremy into a championship point guard, a floor general, right? And the rest of the guys having a championship spirit. That's the challenge." |
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lol, isn't this something Nash should be saying instead of Kobe?
In any case with Kobe and Nash in your corner, Lin, if you F this up, you're a really big idiot. |
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Honeybadger81
Star Player
Joined: 25 Oct 2014
Posts: 1253
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Mini Mamba wrote: | Lin is at his best when he is aggressive and attacking the basket making a play either for himself or a teammate.
When he is tentative and defers to Kobe the offense becomes to predictable to defend and very stagnant with players standing around and watching.
Since Kobe can his his shot at any time if I were him I'd defer to Lin early in the game to get his confidence up and get him going. |
you have to understand why he was tentative, there was not much spacing to operate, no movement, basically he either has to go iso or pass to the best iso player named Kobe... I don't think it is only a deferring thing, of course he needs to give kobe enough touches, at the same time he needs to find good opportunities for him to attack and there were not many...
Byron either needs to call some plays for Lin or let lin come off bench to bring up the tempo and operate... |
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truthinbasketball
Rookie
Joined: 30 Oct 2014
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| kinein wrote: | | truthinbasketball wrote: | There is a fundamental problem with Kobe asking Lin to run the offense. The problem is that Lin as of today simply cannot do that effectively. In fact, it will make things much worse.
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Kobe and Magic Johnson think differently. I tend to give the guys that actually play or played at the NBA level the leg-up do to experience and 1st-hand observation. |
I am sure therefore that you give Kevin McHale the leg-up over everyone since he has observed Lin over two years longer than Kobe or Magic.
That was too easy really  |
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Reflexx
Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 11163
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | drzucchini wrote: | | LAL32 wrote: | Thank you. Kobe's need to get his shots up and his constant demanding of the ball is part of the problem, yet there is no acknowledgement from Kobe when it comes to that.
How about a simple..."Hey Jeremy we need more from you, I will do my part by stepping back a little and letting you do your thing from time to time." |
There's no reason to handle Lin with kid gloves. |
Exactly.
Kobe will demand the ball. That's what he's supposed to do. It's how he plays. Aggressive and dominating.
It's the PG's job to assess the situation and decide if they should pass the ball to Kobe, and when. If Kobe is not running a play properly, then the PG should tell him where he should be if he wants the ball next time.
Kobe will yell and scream on the court. He'll look angry. But in the end, he'll respect the hell out of you and will look at you as one of the people he can trust going to battle with. |
It's not the SG's job to yell and scream, but the reality is, that's what's going to happen.
But as the leader of this team, Kobe is going to have to go beyond the typical roles and responsibilities of a shooting guard.
I mean, I don't see other SGs typically taking 25 shots every game so there is SOME culpability there too. That's why I say, this is a team effort. It's not just Kobe gets to keep doing what he's doing and everyone else change. That's precisely the sort of thing that Abbott wants everyone to think playing with Kobe is like.
Everyone needs to work on this, together. The other players, need to get in to good position, fight hard. Lin, step up and run this machine. Kobe, dial it back a bit and let someone else drive. |
I don't want Kobe to dial it back a bit.
I want everyone else to step it up and do their damn jobs.
I want Boozer and Hill setting good screens and then rolling hard to the basket.
I want Wes slashing if Lin penetrates.
Right now, if Kobe is the only one doing his job then of course he's going to get most of the shots.
If everyone else does their job, Kobe will get fewer shots because Lin will have better options. He'll see guys with open shots.
In turn, Kobe may still score a lot because he'll have easier shots. |
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Reflexx
Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 11163
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | Just want to see this team come together. Every year, there seems to be a whipping boy. If it's not Lamar, it's Pau. Now they're gone and I really don't want to see Jeremy being the one gets called out for not wearing his big boy pants (even if/when it is warranted). This is a team effort. It starts with Byron and both Lin and Kobe. The three of them need to figure this out.
For instance ... where is Kobe in the post? Why isn't Kobe playing off ball more? Those are questions I've have for Byron.
Byron needs to make adjustments. Kobe needs to make adjustments. Lin needs to make adjustments.
On defense you have Wesley Johnson trying to guard a point guard all game. WHAT?
You take all these issues, at varying points within the roster and system, and that's how you lose by an average margin of 19 points. It's just not as simple as yeah Jeremy run da offense man. I wish it were that simple but the blame (for lack of a better word) is on everyone, not just Jeremy. |
As for "whipping boy"... if I was Scott I'd be yelling at Hill every chance I got. |
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hopandskip
Sixth Man
Joined: 12 Oct 2014
Posts: 85
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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I had to double check if he actually said that stuff. He thinks that's going to happen within the next 2 years? He's tripping/very optimistic. |
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Honeybadger81
Star Player
Joined: 25 Oct 2014
Posts: 1253
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| truthinbasketball wrote: | | kinein wrote: | | truthinbasketball wrote: | There is a fundamental problem with Kobe asking Lin to run the offense. The problem is that Lin as of today simply cannot do that effectively. In fact, it will make things much worse.
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Kobe and Magic Johnson think differently. I tend to give the guys that actually play or played at the NBA level the leg-up do to experience and 1st-hand observation. |
I am sure therefore that you give Kevin McHale the leg-up over everyone since he has observed Lin over two years longer than Kobe or Magic.
That was too easy really |
Lin run the up tempo offense well in Houston... Kevin McHale said Lin is as good as anybody pushing the tempo and operate in the open floor... |
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ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeggs wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Reflexx wrote: | | drzucchini wrote: | | LAL32 wrote: | Thank you. Kobe's need to get his shots up and his constant demanding of the ball is part of the problem, yet there is no acknowledgement from Kobe when it comes to that.
How about a simple..."Hey Jeremy we need more from you, I will do my part by stepping back a little and letting you do your thing from time to time." |
There's no reason to handle Lin with kid gloves. |
Exactly.
Kobe will demand the ball. That's what he's supposed to do. It's how he plays. Aggressive and dominating.
It's the PG's job to assess the situation and decide if they should pass the ball to Kobe, and when. If Kobe is not running a play properly, then the PG should tell him where he should be if he wants the ball next time.
Kobe will yell and scream on the court. He'll look angry. But in the end, he'll respect the hell out of you and will look at you as one of the people he can trust going to battle with. |
It's not the SG's job to yell and scream, but the reality is, that's what's going to happen.
But as the leader of this team, Kobe is going to have to go beyond the typical roles and responsibilities of a shooting guard.
I mean, I don't see other SGs typically taking 25 shots every game so there is SOME culpability there too. That's why I say, this is a team effort. It's not just Kobe gets to keep doing what he's doing and everyone else change. That's precisely the sort of thing that Abbott wants everyone to think playing with Kobe is like.
Everyone needs to work on this, together. The other players, need to get in to good position, fight hard. Lin, step up and run this machine. Kobe, dial it back a bit and let someone else drive. |
I think you are dead wrong here. It's the other players that need to adapt to playing with Kobe, not the other way around. When Kobe is in an iso situation, the rest of the team needs to be moving and cutting to the basket and stop ball watching like they do a lot of times. The problem is when Kobe has the ball everyone just stops and watch. That's not Kobe's fault. Kobe should be shooting 25-30 shots a game considering the current talent level of this team. When Nick Young comes back, then maybe we can start talking about Kobe dialing it down a tad. But other than that Kobe at the minimum, needs to put up 25 shots. |
I'm not sure what you're saying I'm wrong about. My post was simply that everybody needs to adjust. You don't agree with that?
We've been saying for the past decade now, for 10 seasons, 5 coaches, various combinations of players, different schemes, that players just watch. These aren't players that just watched on virtually any other team they have ever played on.
So the adjustment needs to come from both sides. The other players need to move, but also, Kobe needs to get them to move IF and when he runs the offense.
Just curious ... why do you think that regardless of coach, system or players, we have this same conversation about player movement when Kobe has the ball every single year for the past decade? Conspiracy to play statue? |
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dxdx
Sixth Man
Joined: 28 Oct 2014
Posts: 70
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Honeybadger81 wrote: | | truthinbasketball wrote: | | kinein wrote: | | truthinbasketball wrote: | There is a fundamental problem with Kobe asking Lin to run the offense. The problem is that Lin as of today simply cannot do that effectively. In fact, it will make things much worse.
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Kobe and Magic Johnson think differently. I tend to give the guys that actually play or played at the NBA level the leg-up do to experience and 1st-hand observation. |
I am sure therefore that you give Kevin McHale the leg-up over everyone since he has observed Lin over two years longer than Kobe or Magic.
That was too easy really |
Lin run the up tempo offense well in Houston... Kevin McHale said Lin is as good as anybody pushing the tempo and operate in the open floor... |
equally, he also said that sometimes Lin plays for the other team. so there's that as well.
i wouldn't take his words too seriously anyway, it's McFail after all. |
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