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greenfrog Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:17 am Post subject: |
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LAL32 wrote: | fiendishoc wrote: | Quote: | Kobe told Jeremy it's "an urban legend" that he wants to control the ball. Kobe said he's implored Jeremy to run the offense | (Medina)
Context matters. |
https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/823251F8771139451577133105152_34dc861bde6.0.1.6960637001054701871.mp4?versionId=Q635YJje7KPmnImZs85Cw_60SfREI00_
I love what the man has done for the franchise but I am a Lakers fan first and foremost. The team is devoid of talent, but that is no reason to go 1 on 3. He had 25 shots in 28 minutes for anyone that counters by saying that is just one play. For comparison, the rest of the starting line-up had 25 shots combined.
Ball movement is the new breed of basketball and Kobe is insistent on getting his isolation shots up, yet he is somehow able to get away with subtly placing the blame on Lin after the game. I'm sorry to say it but Kobe has the media and the majority of us Lakers fans by the balls. He can do or say anything, and noone will dare question him. He needs to be held accountable or else he is going have free reign to jack up as many shots as he well chooses to, people. I understand being loyal to the man but not to the detriment of our team. |
Not to say that Lin's struggles are his fault (which I don't think is fair either), but it would be nice just for once to hear him acknowledge that maybe he's not the easiest player for a pure point guard to play with. |
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Vin Star Player
Joined: 03 Jan 2013 Posts: 6005 Location: France
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:27 am Post subject: |
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To run an offense, first you need offensive players. There is litteraly nowhere to go for the ball handler in the halfcourt. |
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tbytc2012 Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 Mar 2013 Posts: 779
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:48 am Post subject: |
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LAL32 wrote: | fiendishoc wrote: | Quote: | Kobe told Jeremy it's "an urban legend" that he wants to control the ball. Kobe said he's implored Jeremy to run the offense | (Medina)
Context matters. |
https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/823251F8771139451577133105152_34dc861bde6.0.1.6960637001054701871.mp4?versionId=Q635YJje7KPmnImZs85Cw_60SfREI00_
I love what the man has done for the franchise but I am a Lakers fan first and foremost. The team is devoid of talent, but that is no reason to go 1 on 3. He had 25 shots in 28 minutes for anyone that counters by saying that is just one play. For comparison, the rest of the starting line-up had 25 shots combined.
Ball movement is the new breed of basketball and Kobe is insistent on getting his isolation shots up, yet he is somehow able to get away with subtly placing the blame on Lin after the game. I'm sorry to say it but Kobe has the media and the majority of us Lakers fans by the balls. He can do or say anything, and noone will dare question him. He needs to be held accountable or else he is going have free reign to jack up as many shots as he well chooses to, people. I understand being loyal to the man but not to the detriment of our team. |
Seriously when i saw comment like that, i really wonder if people watch the game.
Seriously how the (bleep) kobe can have ball movement when 3 starters can't shoot, can't dribble, can't pass, can't cut, can't create and the pg played scared.
Just try to remember the game, Kobe pass to Hills/Boozer under basket since they have no size/speed/skill, fail to finish/fumble away the ball, pass to Hills/Boozer at 15-20 ft. Can't dribble, can't shoot, can't pass, the ball then going back to kobe.
Kobe pass to Wes at 3 pt line, can't shoot/ can't dribble, ball going back to kobe.
And Lin the only one who can do sth, played like fisher, always hesitate to attack.
So seriously tell me how this team can have ball movement, and you blame it on kobe? |
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lakersken80 Retired Number
Joined: 12 Aug 2009 Posts: 38775
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 12:56 am Post subject: |
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LAL32 wrote: | fiendishoc wrote: | Quote: | Kobe told Jeremy it's "an urban legend" that he wants to control the ball. Kobe said he's implored Jeremy to run the offense | (Medina)
Context matters. |
https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/823251F8771139451577133105152_34dc861bde6.0.1.6960637001054701871.mp4?versionId=Q635YJje7KPmnImZs85Cw_60SfREI00_
I love what the man has done for the franchise but I am a Lakers fan first and foremost. The team is devoid of talent, but that is no reason to go 1 on 3. He had 25 shots in 28 minutes for anyone that counters by saying that is just one play. For comparison, the rest of the starting line-up had 25 shots combined.
Ball movement is the new breed of basketball and Kobe is insistent on getting his isolation shots up, yet he is somehow able to get away with subtly placing the blame on Lin after the game. I'm sorry to say it but Kobe has the media and the majority of us Lakers fans by the balls. He can do or say anything, and noone will dare question him. He needs to be held accountable or else he is going have free reign to jack up as many shots as he well chooses to, people. I understand being loyal to the man but not to the detriment of our team. |
Did you even watch the game? Or did you just sign up to crap on Kobe because its the easy thing for the new fans to do? |
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What'sLinsanity? Sixth Man
Joined: 09 Oct 2014 Posts: 34
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:00 am Post subject: |
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Lin NEEDS to play with Davis on the starting unit. |
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VegasLakerFan Star Player
Joined: 25 Dec 2011 Posts: 1835
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:06 am Post subject: |
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lakersken80 wrote: | LAL32 wrote: | fiendishoc wrote: | Quote: | Kobe told Jeremy it's "an urban legend" that he wants to control the ball. Kobe said he's implored Jeremy to run the offense | (Medina)
Context matters. |
https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/823251F8771139451577133105152_34dc861bde6.0.1.6960637001054701871.mp4?versionId=Q635YJje7KPmnImZs85Cw_60SfREI00_
I love what the man has done for the franchise but I am a Lakers fan first and foremost. The team is devoid of talent, but that is no reason to go 1 on 3. He had 25 shots in 28 minutes for anyone that counters by saying that is just one play. For comparison, the rest of the starting line-up had 25 shots combined.
Ball movement is the new breed of basketball and Kobe is insistent on getting his isolation shots up, yet he is somehow able to get away with subtly placing the blame on Lin after the game. I'm sorry to say it but Kobe has the media and the majority of us Lakers fans by the balls. He can do or say anything, and noone will dare question him. He needs to be held accountable or else he is going have free reign to jack up as many shots as he well chooses to, people. I understand being loyal to the man but not to the detriment of our team. |
Did you even watch the game? Or did you just sign up to crap on Kobe because its the easy thing for the new fans to do? |
I watched the game, I didn't really disagree with anything LAL32 said.
And it's not "crapping" on Kobe either - I think he put up all those shots because he felt the team wasn't playing very well on offense, and he was right. |
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USCandLakers Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Mar 2008 Posts: 19955
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:12 am Post subject: |
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Kobe basically wants Lin to stop being a pushover and run the offense. Kobe's going to demand the ball no matter what, a real PG wouldn't throw it to him every time...It's up to Lin to do run the offense. Kobe's going to do what he does. _________________ A banana is killed every time a terrible thread or post is made. Save the bananas. Stop creating terrible posts! |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26309
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:19 am Post subject: |
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USCandLakers wrote: | Kobe basically wants Lin to stop being a pushover and run the offense. Kobe's going to demand the ball no matter what, a real PG wouldn't throw it to him every time...It's up to Lin to do run the offense. Kobe's going to do what he does. |
That's something Sessions did do. From time to time Kobe would come to the top of the key and ask for it, and Sessions would wave him off and say "I got this" and then iso and score or set up the proper play.
That's what Kobe wants from Lin who is too submissive. And then if Kobe tells Lin to be aggressive or lets him have the iso play, Lin looks too long and holds it too long without attacking. That's why Kobe gets on him.
But I think Lin got the message. |
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Lakers_Jester Star Player
Joined: 17 Sep 2012 Posts: 5366
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:39 am Post subject: |
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Lin was the only player in my fantasy team that sucked. If lin ends up being my worst pick that'll be sad lol. Don't make me regret picking u over trey Burke jeremy. |
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CHRISTYLE70 Star Player
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 3113
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:13 am Post subject: |
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I watched this game like most of you did, the whole team looks like they dont know what to do on offense the only person who could consistently get his shot was Kobe. I dont think this is really the game we want to blame Kobe for the rest of the team has to be more aggressive and step up and shoot the ball and be effective Jeremy Lin is way too passive he dribbles the clock out and puts ZERO pressure on the defense and that aint Kobe's fault, Jeremy needs to step up period, he should be taking double digit shots per game. |
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VegasLakerFan Star Player
Joined: 25 Dec 2011 Posts: 1835
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:49 am Post subject: |
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CHRISTYLE70 wrote: | I watched this game like most of you did, the whole team looks like they dont know what to do on offense the only person who could consistently get his shot was Kobe. I dont think this is really the game we want to blame Kobe for the rest of the team has to be more aggressive and step up and shoot the ball and be effective Jeremy Lin is way too passive he dribbles the clock out and puts ZERO pressure on the defense and that aint Kobe's fault, Jeremy needs to step up period, he should be taking double digit shots per game. |
I do agree that Lin has been underwhelming so far, but he did surprise me in the preseason. I think he's hyper-intelligent dude who overthinks things. If he just plays his game instead of trying to placate Kobe he could be a really good player. |
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jlinfan Starting Rotation
Joined: 15 Jul 2014 Posts: 720
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:41 am Post subject: |
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Lin's marching orders come from the top and he should be implementing whatever BS has drawn up.
Because BS plan isn't working (whether the guys aren't following the plan, or his plan is ineffective), you have two options; either stick with the plan or change the plan. This is for BS to figure out. Lineups are for BS to figure out. The team has to buy in, if they don't then it becomes a free-for-all with no cohesion or continuity since everyone will do what they feel works.
From what I saw last night, Lin was getting frustrated because the plays he were calling were not being implemented (either the guys were ignoring them or didn't understand or whatever). This is the critical part of each possession and I think what Kobe's message to Lin was trying to get across. Once the play breaks down, you have to ADAPT, be CREATIVE and make a play. Things don't always go according to plan. In other words, the play your calling may not always work, and if it doesn't it's your job to create something out of it.
Kobe's got it right. The lack of spacing and 3pt shooters and turnstile team-mates on the floor is not an excuse but an opportunity. Lin simply must find a way to make it work when he is on the floor.
BS needs to fix everything else. |
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Drifts Retired Number
Joined: 22 Nov 2004 Posts: 28374
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:16 am Post subject: |
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Jeremy Lin just needs to go Linsane... it's the best he's ever been, why try being someone else when you have something that works? it's like Kobe's never really tried to be a combo guard like everybody is telling him to be... because it's not who he is, Kobe is a scorer and scoring is what he does best.
Lin should do the same, just be a scoring PG, it's what he is good at. _________________ "Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it." |
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greenfrog Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:22 am Post subject: |
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MJST wrote: | USCandLakers wrote: | Kobe basically wants Lin to stop being a pushover and run the offense. Kobe's going to demand the ball no matter what, a real PG wouldn't throw it to him every time...It's up to Lin to do run the offense. Kobe's going to do what he does. |
That's something Sessions did do. From time to time Kobe would come to the top of the key and ask for it, and Sessions would wave him off and say "I got this" and then iso and score or set up the proper play.
That's what Kobe wants from Lin who is too submissive. And then if Kobe tells Lin to be aggressive or lets him have the iso play, Lin looks too long and holds it too long without attacking. That's why Kobe gets on him.
But I think Lin got the message. |
Sure, Sessions started playing that way. By the end of his time here, however, he was such a shell shocked mess of his former self he could barely dribble the ball up and stand in the corner correctly. |
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qiantom Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Jul 2014 Posts: 612
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:37 am Post subject: |
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To turn the offense around, Kobe needs to do a little less, everybody else needs to do a little more and Lin needs to lead the charge. |
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Team of the 80's Star Player
Joined: 03 Feb 2008 Posts: 6095 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:37 am Post subject: |
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lakersken80 wrote: | LAL32 wrote: | fiendishoc wrote: | Quote: | Kobe told Jeremy it's "an urban legend" that he wants to control the ball. Kobe said he's implored Jeremy to run the offense | (Medina)
Context matters. |
https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/823251F8771139451577133105152_34dc861bde6.0.1.6960637001054701871.mp4?versionId=Q635YJje7KPmnImZs85Cw_60SfREI00_
I love what the man has done for the franchise but I am a Lakers fan first and foremost. The team is devoid of talent, but that is no reason to go 1 on 3. He had 25 shots in 28 minutes for anyone that counters by saying that is just one play. For comparison, the rest of the starting line-up had 25 shots combined.
Ball movement is the new breed of basketball and Kobe is insistent on getting his isolation shots up, yet he is somehow able to get away with subtly placing the blame on Lin after the game. I'm sorry to say it but Kobe has the media and the majority of us Lakers fans by the balls. He can do or say anything, and noone will dare question him. He needs to be held accountable or else he is going have free reign to jack up as many shots as he well chooses to, people. I understand being loyal to the man but not to the detriment of our team. |
Did you even watch the game? Or did you just sign up to crap on Kobe because its the easy thing for the new fans to do? |
Is that Abbott? |
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DrumR Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 1336
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:51 am Post subject: |
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greenfrog wrote: | MJST wrote: | USCandLakers wrote: | Kobe basically wants Lin to stop being a pushover and run the offense. Kobe's going to demand the ball no matter what, a real PG wouldn't throw it to him every time...It's up to Lin to do run the offense. Kobe's going to do what he does. |
That's something Sessions did do. From time to time Kobe would come to the top of the key and ask for it, and Sessions would wave him off and say "I got this" and then iso and score or set up the proper play.
That's what Kobe wants from Lin who is too submissive. And then if Kobe tells Lin to be aggressive or lets him have the iso play, Lin looks too long and holds it too long without attacking. That's why Kobe gets on him.
But I think Lin got the message. |
Sure, Sessions started playing that way. By the end of his time here, however, he was such a shell shocked mess of his former self he could barely dribble the ball up and stand in the corner correctly. |
That was because Mike Brown told him to stop running. This is documented and well known. Stop attempting to re-write history. I've lurked here since 2003 and occasionally that agenda gets tiresome. Mostly they're good for laughs on Facebook though among my Laker friends so thanks for that, but you must have hated the past 19 seasons or your trolling has been epic.
There will be many games we can blame Kobe for being ball-dominant, but the 2nd game of the season when we clearly don't know our offense isn't one of them. Kobe was right. When the game devolves into playground scrapping Jeremy needs to try to "get his" more. You all are going to miss that old school mentality of "You go down swinging" one day. I promise. I always thought even if we played well we would go at best 1-3 in these 1st two back-to-backs. Hard to get practice time to work on problems when you play 4 games in 5 days, but Byron needs to figure something out. This game was a total coaching debacle. What happened to guarding the 3pt line I heard all year last season on TWC from Coach? |
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KingKobe20 Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 Posts: 18651 Location: L.A County, 26 miles away from Staples Center
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:06 am Post subject: |
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LAL32 wrote: | I mean we used to be the face of the NBA and look at us now. Is showing an undying loyalty to Kobe really worth it? |
Last time I checked Jerry West is still the logo of the NBA and the Lakers have the most nationally televised games in the league.
Sure the mighty have fallen but have some damn loyalty. We're the Lakers not the Celtics , we don't just trade away our legends when the going gets rough.
We ride it till the wheels fall off, and then we rebuild. Seems to be working out okay thus far with our 16 championships. I know with Jim Buss at the helm the confidence level is low but have some faith it can turn around and trading Kobe away is not the answer. _________________ "Tryin' to get that Kobe number, One Over Jordan"
-Kanye
aka ILLWiLL20
R.I.P PHIL |
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KingKobe20 Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 Posts: 18651 Location: L.A County, 26 miles away from Staples Center
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:10 am Post subject: |
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An as for Lin, kinda hard to run an offense when there's no movement coming from front court. Jordan, Carlos and Wes shoot too many damn jumpers.
No movement to the basket to get easy buckets. Pretty much impossible to create any plays so I sysmpathize with Jeremy.
Ed Davis definitely needs to get more burn with Jeremy, he seems to be the only player who doesn't run with cylinder blocks as shoes. _________________ "Tryin' to get that Kobe number, One Over Jordan"
-Kanye
aka ILLWiLL20
R.I.P PHIL |
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purple.23 Starting Rotation
Joined: 11 Oct 2014 Posts: 592
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:16 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, right now the offense that needs to get going is Lin himself. |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:17 am Post subject: |
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Lin had similar challenges in Houston with Harden.
We really have two problems. The first is a lack of offensive power for Jeremy to create for (or Kobe).
The second is that we no longer have a big through which we can run the offense.
Anyone know why Kobe isn't playing in the post more? That would allow Jeremy to be in more of a playmaking position. Plus, the other benefit is that it should help extend Kobe's minutes.
Bottom line, what we're doing isn't working. Jeremy needs to run the offense so that's going to take two things. 1) Jeremy needs to step up and 2) Kobe needs to ease up on his own plays until Jeremy gets up to speed.
Understood #2 will cause us to fall behind while Lin gets acclimated but you can't give a guy 2-3 chances and when he fails, try to do it on your own because now that guy is going to play "scared" so to speak. Just, force Lin in to that role even at the detriment of falling behind early.
I said it in another thread. Kobe's going to have to relinquish his own offense a little bit. We had similar problems integrating Steve freaking Nash early for the same reason (he went 3-9 for 9 pts and 4 assists in his debut with his, his worst game in at least 34 MPG of play since the 2007-2008 season). But we're going to need to treat the early part of the season as a preseason. |
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LinKobe Sixth Man
Joined: 13 Jul 2014 Posts: 58
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:34 am Post subject: |
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The first two games, the Rockets and Suns showed us exactly what we are in dire need of, and that is perimeter shooting. When you space the floor and allow a PG to do the things he's good at, then the whole team just gets better. It's just such a shame we lack the personnel and we have a coach that looks down upon liberal 3 pt shooting.
But something has got to change though because clearly this offensive scheme is horrible anyway you look at it. |
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brunel Starting Rotation
Joined: 16 Oct 2014 Posts: 518
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:37 am Post subject: |
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Davis needs to move into the starting lineup for Boozer. Hill can hit the midrange jumpers, grab rebounds and Davis can protect the paint and play PnR with Lin. Let Kobe run off screens and share ball handling w Lin as a forward. Get someone in there that can hit a 3. Ellington for now. The sucky thing is we would have no big to post and pass, but that's not working anyway with the crappy spacing we have. Let Kobe dominate the post. |
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KOBEDAGREAT Sixth Man
Joined: 15 Jul 2014 Posts: 30
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:41 am Post subject: |
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would love to see lin just go nuts like in NY. but y'know kobe gonna kob...
hopefully lin actually believes kobe and will use dat green light. but I expect kobe to do the same thing hes always done |
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hopandskip Sixth Man
Joined: 12 Oct 2014 Posts: 85
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:53 am Post subject: |
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If I were Lin I'd be looking around for Kobe on every play too.
But, Kobe is older now and Kobe probably knows that he can't go 1 on 5 for 82 games. He's going to have to deputize Lin to run the offense.
I like the idea of using Kobe at the SF for some match ups. |
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