I love what the man has done for the franchise but I am a Lakers fan first and foremost. The team is devoid of talent, but that is no reason to go 1 on 3. He had 25 shots in 28 minutes for anyone that counters by saying that is just one play. For comparison, the rest of the starting line-up had 25 shots combined.
Ball movement is the new breed of basketball and Kobe is insistent on getting his isolation shots up, yet he is somehow able to get away with subtly placing the blame on Lin after the game. I'm sorry to say it but Kobe has the media and the majority of us Lakers fans by the balls. He can do or say anything, and noone will dare question him. He needs to be held accountable or else he is going have free reign to jack up as many shots as he well chooses to, people. I understand being loyal to the man but not to the detriment of our team.
Seriously when i saw comment like that, i really wonder if people watch the game.
Seriously how the (bleep) kobe can have ball movement when 3 starters can't shoot, can't dribble, can't pass, can't cut, can't create and the pg played scared.
Just try to remember the game, Kobe pass to Hills/Boozer under basket since they have no size/speed/skill, fail to finish/fumble away the ball, pass to Hills/Boozer at 15-20 ft. Can't dribble, can't shoot, can't pass, the ball then going back to kobe.
Kobe pass to Wes at 3 pt line, can't shoot/ can't dribble, ball going back to kobe.
And Lin the only one who can do sth, played like fisher, always hesitate to attack.
So seriously tell me how this team can have ball movement, and you blame it on kobe?
True it's a one man circus once again as in was 05-06. How can an organization see this and continue to not bridge the gaps with some talent. I know superstars don't grow on trees but the Lakers in a market like LA cannot stop being competitive.
Problem is Lakers have zero offense outside of Kobe Bryant. Line success lies in pnr and getting spacing on floor but so far I haven't seen any good plays. All midrange isos. The paint is packed and our 3 is atrocious, can't drive. Unfortunately Lin does not have the ability to create his own shot without that spacing.
Lin is not your traditional point guard that can run an offense and direct guys where to go. He is a shooting guard and a pick and roll player. Byron Scott needs to get back to starting Ronnie Price and bringing Lin off the bench so he can run his pick and rolls with Ed David. Just like how he was with Carmelo, Jeremy Lin is too passive when he's playing alongside an alpha dog. Off the bench with the 2nd unit, Jeremy Lin can push the tempo. For crying out loud, the whole training camp we were starting either Nash or Price and bringing Lin off the bench. I get it that Price suffered a bone bruise the final pre-season game. But he looks fine now. Let's get back to what we were practicing with. Price to start and Lin off the bench. That way Lin doesn't have to worry about giving the ball to Kobe. _________________ The road back to the top...
Problem is Lakers have zero offense outside of Kobe Bryant. Line success lies in pnr and getting spacing on floor but so far I haven't seen any good plays. All midrange isos. The paint is packed and our 3 is atrocious, can't drive. Unfortunately Lin does not have the ability to create his own shot without that spacing.
Opposing teams do not respect our midrange game.
Not enough Firepower in the starting lineup. When Swaggy gets healthy he needs to replace Wes in the starting lineup, Wes hasnt been a defensive stopper so lets atleast get someone of the floor who can score, Ed Davis should replace Hill at Center.
Lin
Kobe
Swaggy
Boozer
Davis
Should be our starters we have to get some more scoring in the lineup or we will face huge deficits every game because the starters cant score.
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:54 am Post subject:
DrumR wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
MJST wrote:
USCandLakers wrote:
Kobe basically wants Lin to stop being a pushover and run the offense. Kobe's going to demand the ball no matter what, a real PG wouldn't throw it to him every time...It's up to Lin to do run the offense. Kobe's going to do what he does.
That's something Sessions did do. From time to time Kobe would come to the top of the key and ask for it, and Sessions would wave him off and say "I got this" and then iso and score or set up the proper play.
That's what Kobe wants from Lin who is too submissive. And then if Kobe tells Lin to be aggressive or lets him have the iso play, Lin looks too long and holds it too long without attacking. That's why Kobe gets on him.
But I think Lin got the message.
Sure, Sessions started playing that way. By the end of his time here, however, he was such a shell shocked mess of his former self he could barely dribble the ball up and stand in the corner correctly.
That was because Mike Brown told him to stop running. This is documented and well known. Stop attempting to re-write history. I've lurked here since 2003 and occasionally that agenda gets tiresome. Mostly they're good for laughs on Facebook though among my Laker friends so thanks for that, but you must have hated the past 19 seasons or your trolling has been epic.
There will be many games we can blame Kobe for being ball-dominant, but the 2nd game of the season when we clearly don't know our offense isn't one of them. Kobe was right. When the game devolves into playground scrapping Jeremy needs to try to "get his" more. You all are going to miss that old school mentality of "You go down swinging" one day. I promise. I always thought even if we played well we would go at best 1-3 in these 1st two back-to-backs. Hard to get practice time to work on problems when you play 4 games in 5 days, but Byron needs to figure something out. This game was a total coaching debacle. What happened to guarding the 3pt line I heard all year last season on TWC from Coach?
Uh, I didn't say Sessions' downfall was Kobe's fault... Undoubtedly Brown had his reasons for that (probably to do with key personnel not matching Sessions style). I'm not even blaming him for Lin sucking. Ultimately that's on Lin, but there are factors in which no one is to personally blame that contribute to it.
How's Lin supposed to run the offense when Kobe is always hogging the ball?
Steve Nash was a much, much better player than Lin, and Kobe effectively took the ball out of Nash's hands and reduced Nash to the role of a spot up shooter.
Nash broke his leg in his first game and was never able to run the offense effectively.
This is a lie.
You obviously have a difficult time discerning a differing opinion from an untruth.
Nash didn't break his leg in his first game. He broke his leg in his 2nd season with us.
How's Lin supposed to run the offense when Kobe is always hogging the ball?
Steve Nash was a much, much better player than Lin, and Kobe effectively took the ball out of Nash's hands and reduced Nash to the role of a spot up shooter.
Nash broke his leg in his first game and was never able to run the offense effectively.
This is a lie.
You obviously have a difficult time discerning a differing opinion from an untruth.
Nash didn't break his leg in his first game. He broke his leg in his 2nd season with us.
You're wrong. He broke his leg in the 2nd game of the 2012-2013 season, his first season with us.
We never had the opportunity to see him healthy.
Lin looked like he'd call a play... and wait to see if anyone would run it. Sometimes it would take a few seconds before players would be like, "Oh... this is what I do." Other times they didn't run it at all.
Lin needs to make quicker decisions. I know it's his job to get them playing as a team, but he also can't wait around to see if the bigs figure stuff out.
The only one that really tries running a play when Lin signals is Kobe ironically. People accuse Kobe of not being a team player, but he's the one trying to get on the same page as Lin.
I think this frustrated Lin, so he would just end up deferring to Kobe early on the clock, which Kobe doesn't want. Kobe wants Lin to try and do something. Deferring to Kobe is too predictable.
Lin needs to go in there and break down defenses. Who cares if he gets a shot blocked every once in a while? At this point, who cares if he get s a turnover. If any of his teammates complain he should just say, "If you ran the play then I could have got the ball to you. Instead, I had 3 guys on me. Next time, run the effing play."
Lin isn't a very good player. There's a reason Houston and the Knicks weren't exactly sad to see him go. And now you have idiots acting like Kobe is holding him back from being a All-Star caliber player.
It's the exact same (bleep) you saw with Harden and Melo. Both of them are far, far better offensive players than Lin and so is Bryant and that's why the offense will continue to run through him.
And lmao @ people bringing up a 40 year old PG in Nash or a career back-up in Sessions to prove anything.
Lin looked like he'd call a play... and wait to see if anyone would run it. Sometimes it would take a few seconds before players would be like, "Oh... this is what I do." Other times they didn't run it at all.
Lin needs to make quicker decisions. I know it's his job to get them playing as a team, but he also can't wait around to see if the bigs figure stuff out.
The only one that really tries running a play when Lin signals is Kobe ironically. People accuse Kobe of not being a team player, but he's the one trying to get on the same page as Lin.
I think this frustrated Lin, so he would just end up deferring to Kobe early on the clock, which Kobe doesn't want. Kobe wants Lin to try and do something. Deferring to Kobe is too predictable.
Lin needs to go in there and break down defenses. Who cares if he gets a shot blocked every once in a while? At this point, who cares if he get s a turnover. If any of his teammates complain he should just say, "If you ran the play then I could have got the ball to you. Instead, I had 3 guys on me. Next time, run the effing play."
I love what the man has done for the franchise but I am a Lakers fan first and foremost. The team is devoid of talent, but that is no reason to go 1 on 3. He had 25 shots in 28 minutes for anyone that counters by saying that is just one play. For comparison, the rest of the starting line-up had 25 shots combined.
Ball movement is the new breed of basketball and Kobe is insistent on getting his isolation shots up, yet he is somehow able to get away with subtly placing the blame on Lin after the game. I'm sorry to say it but Kobe has the media and the majority of us Lakers fans by the balls. He can do or say anything, and noone will dare question him. He needs to be held accountable or else he is going have free reign to jack up as many shots as he well chooses to, people. I understand being loyal to the man but not to the detriment of our team.
You really don't sound like a Lakerfan/Kobe fan. You sound like a couple of other posters on here who signed on a couple of years ago with thousands of post and just seems to toe the line with trolling.
This "Princeton" offense Scott wants to run sucks. I'd rather see Lin run pick and roll all day with Boozer or Ed Davis or Kobe in the post ISO'd. Right now it seems that none of the players except for Kobe and Lin actually know what to do with the ball in this Byron Scott "offense"
Seriously, what offense? The one where we give the ball to our two terrorizing big men, and let them do damage and wreck havoc on the NBA? Oh wait, we have Boozer and Hill. Or, the one where we give the ball to Kobe to go one on one? I have no clue what the Lakers can do with this line-up. We wanted to play the spacing game with 3 point shooters when we had Pau and Dwight. Now we want to pound the ball with Boozer and Hill.
We have zero three point shooting and zero post play, so it's 100% no man's land basketball. And the guy that's the best at no man's land basketball is Kobe.
_________________ "I don’t give a [expletive] what you say. If I go out there and miss game winners, and people say, 'Kobe choked, or Kobe is seven for whatever in pressure situations.' Well, [expletive] you. Because I don’t play for your [expletive] approval."
This "Princeton" offense Scott wants to run sucks. I'd rather see Lin run pick and roll all day with Boozer or Ed Davis or Kobe in the post ISO'd. Right now it seems that none of the players except for Kobe and Lin actually know what to do with the ball in this Byron Scott "offense"
it's actually the triangle.
Problem is that Ronnie is more "Fisher" than Lin is. He plays the passing lanes well, he doesn't allow backdoor cuts without putting his hand out on switches, takes charges and the ONLY responsibility he has outside of his defense is waiting for an open shot.
Lin can do all those things too..but its a waste of all his other talents.
Henceforth why Lin looked like Lin playing with the bench and looks lost in the starting lineup.
High pick and roll/high octane, fast paced offense isn't gonna be run with our starting unit. Bench yes, starting unit, no. That's why Byron's intention was to start Price with the slower pace triangle/princeton and then have Lin come in, run high pick and roll with the bench and pressure the defense.
His "two units" concept. Which seems to be one he needs to go back to as it worked a heck of a lot better than what's currently going on.
I don't know how Kobe is in the lockerroom, but it sure seems like most younger players are afraid to play "their game" with him on the court. The only exception has been Shaggy P.
Lin isn't a very good player. There's a reason Houston and the Knicks weren't exactly sad to see him go. And now you have idiots acting like Kobe is holding him back from being a All-Star caliber player.
It's the exact same (bleep) you saw with Harden and Melo. Both of them are far, far better offensive players than Lin and so is Bryant and that's why the offense will continue to run through him.
And lmao @ people bringing up a 40 year old PG in Nash or a career back-up in Sessions to prove anything.
lol Knicks regretted their decision alright, especially with fat felton as their PG. Even Stephen Smith admitted this.
Lin had some breakout games with the Rockets, but he was like an inferior version of Harden. Rockets would have kept him if they knew Bosh didnt want to come on.
Lin looked like he'd call a play... and wait to see if anyone would run it. Sometimes it would take a few seconds before players would be like, "Oh... this is what I do." Other times they didn't run it at all.
Lin needs to make quicker decisions. I know it's his job to get them playing as a team, but he also can't wait around to see if the bigs figure stuff out.
The only one that really tries running a play when Lin signals is Kobe ironically. People accuse Kobe of not being a team player, but he's the one trying to get on the same page as Lin.
I think this frustrated Lin, so he would just end up deferring to Kobe early on the clock, which Kobe doesn't want. Kobe wants Lin to try and do something. Deferring to Kobe is too predictable.
Lin needs to go in there and break down defenses. Who cares if he gets a shot blocked every once in a while? At this point, who cares if he get s a turnover. If any of his teammates complain he should just say, "If you ran the play then I could have got the ball to you. Instead, I had 3 guys on me. Next time, run the effing play."
quite right, as epitomised in this:
also, not sure if Lin is talented enough to iso effectively.
his skills are best used in the PnR, and with plenty of screens and spacing in the paint.
Last edited by dxdx on Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:33 am; edited 2 times in total
I don't think ANYONE is really paying attention to KOBE's game. The offense sucks because of KOBE.
Next time (or if you recorded any of the 2 prior games), observe what KOBE does.
if he lets LIN - or any PG - dribble upcourt,
Kobe will come to the top and demand the ball, set screen and then demand the ball, or curl from weak side to strong side and demand ball.
IF lin or any other PG doesn't give him the ball, kobe will try to re-establish himself thru another set of screens and then demand the ball again.
IF LIN gets screen from someone else and drives in the key, KOBE will have already ran to the spot for a post up...essentially blocking the lane from his own PG penetration. KOBE never sets a screen for the purpose of his PG penetrating; it always to switch a smaller man onto him so he can post or have size-mismatch. IT's evident when after the screen, he always calls for the ball.
IN other words, KOBE is moving WAY too much ALL OVER THE COURT to establish position in order to get the ball. Other players cannot move or cut cuz KOBE is in the way.
The way KOBE demands the ball when any PG has it is intimidating. KOBE needs to allow his PGs to run the offense by not shouting for the ball every time.
KOBE will generally pas the ball when he knows he can't get off a shot. That is why the players he passes to often miss; they are at bad times when the players are expecting it. of couse this isnt always the case but it is more often than not.
Last edited by anirx on Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:37 am; edited 1 time in total
I don't think ANYONE is really paying attention to KOBE's game. The offense sucks because of KOBE.
Next time (or if you recorded any of the 2 prior games), observe what KOBE does.
if he lets LIN dribble upcourt,
Kobe will come to the top and demand the ball, set screen and then demand the ball, or curl from weak side to strong side and demand ball.
IF lin or any other PG doesn't give him the ball, kobe will try to re-establish himself thru another set of screens and then demand the ball again.
IF LIN gets screen from someone else and drives in the key, KOBE will have already ran to the spot for a post up...essentially blocking the lane from his own PG penetration.
IN other words, KOBE is moving WAY too much ALL OVER THE COURT to establish position in order to get the ball. Other players cannot move or cut cuz KOBE is in the way.
The way KOBE demands the ball when any PG has it is intimidating. KOBE needs to allow his PGs to run the offense by not shouting for the ball every time.
Not Kobe's fault.
Kobe is an aggressive shooting guard. He will demand the ball every time he believes he has a match up advantage.
The problem is... all the other players should be doing the same. They should ALL be demanding the ball when they believe they have a superior position to their opponent, or if they have a favorable match up.
It's Lin's job to analyze these match ups and pass the ball if it's truly advantageous in his eyes. Otherwise, keep the ball and get them to move until an advantage presents itself.
Right now, the only starter moving around and trying to get match up advantages is Kobe. That leaves Lin with pretty much just one option to pass it to. He's not weighing other options because there are no other options other than holding the ball and taking it himself.
I don't think ANYONE is really paying attention to KOBE's game. The offense sucks because of KOBE.
Next time (or if you recorded any of the 2 prior games), observe what KOBE does.
if he lets LIN - or any PG - dribble upcourt,
Kobe will come to the top and demand the ball, set screen and then demand the ball, or curl from weak side to strong side and demand ball.
IF lin or any other PG doesn't give him the ball, kobe will try to re-establish himself thru another set of screens and then demand the ball again.
IF LIN gets screen from someone else and drives in the key, KOBE will have already ran to the spot for a post up...essentially blocking the lane from his own PG penetration. KOBE never sets a screen for the purpose of his PG penetrating; it always to switch a smaller man onto him so he can post or have size-mismatch. IT's evident when after the screen, he always calls for the ball.
IN other words, KOBE is moving WAY too much ALL OVER THE COURT to establish position in order to get the ball. Other players cannot move or cut cuz KOBE is in the way.
The way KOBE demands the ball when any PG has it is intimidating. KOBE needs to allow his PGs to run the offense by not shouting for the ball every time.
KOBE will generally pas the ball when he knows he can't get off a shot. That is why the players he passes to often miss; they are at bad times when the players are expecting it. of couse this isnt always the case but it is more often than not.
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