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saacman5033
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 Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| pd24 wrote: | | saacman5033 wrote: | | pd24 wrote: | Do you guys think if Kobe was traded to the Pelicans for say Gordon and Evans and picks, whould they be a force in the West?
Jru
Kobe
??? Ryan Anderson
A Davis
Asik |
Sure, but why would LA want the Pellies worst contracts? |
To get some picks and Gordon would run out in 2 years and Evans in 3. The rebuilding will take 4 or 5 years so they can carry the contracts while still leaving open the option of spending on Max players in each of the next 3 years and adding draft picks. We would still have Max slots next year and the year after. |
No chance in hell the Lakers agree to a trade including Tyreke. Terrible contract for a bad team player. |
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NastyNas_87
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | What is sad about this entire thread is the widespread acknowledgement that Kobe has taken the Lakers as far as he can and there is no championship at the end of his 2 years here. Pretty sobering to think about it that way. It's as good as it gets with him and downhill from here for him.
I think he wants to retire a Laker, but it wouldn't surprise me if the thought of leaving didn't enter his mind. |
I think Kobe's old school. Jerry West - lifelong Laker. Magic Johnson - lifelong Laker. I think it means something to him. And where would he want to go that he wouldn't be seen as riding someone else's coat tails? I'm sure that's why people speculate about NYC because teaming up with Melo would be seen as Kobe getting Melo over the hump rather than the other way around. But in reality, he's not going anywhere for a multitude of reasons beyond the team loyalty thing (size of contract, trade value, Laker cable contract, appearance of tanking, etc.) |
Kobe is a competitor above all else. He doesn't play for the Lakers brand. He plays for rings. If you believe for one second Kobe would be fine with staying on the Lakers for the next 2 years while we rot at the bottom of the standings, you've got another thing coming.
Kobe will demand a trade by December if the team is as bad as we think they'll be. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| NastyNas_87 wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | What is sad about this entire thread is the widespread acknowledgement that Kobe has taken the Lakers as far as he can and there is no championship at the end of his 2 years here. Pretty sobering to think about it that way. It's as good as it gets with him and downhill from here for him.
I think he wants to retire a Laker, but it wouldn't surprise me if the thought of leaving didn't enter his mind. |
I think Kobe's old school. Jerry West - lifelong Laker. Magic Johnson - lifelong Laker. I think it means something to him. And where would he want to go that he wouldn't be seen as riding someone else's coat tails? I'm sure that's why people speculate about NYC because teaming up with Melo would be seen as Kobe getting Melo over the hump rather than the other way around. But in reality, he's not going anywhere for a multitude of reasons beyond the team loyalty thing (size of contract, trade value, Laker cable contract, appearance of tanking, etc.) |
Kobe is a competitor above all else. He doesn't play for the Lakers brand. He plays for rings. If you believe for one second Kobe would be fine with staying on the Lakers for the next 2 years while we rot at the bottom of the standings, you've got another thing coming.
Kobe will demand a trade by December if the team is as bad as we think they'll be. |
It used to be said that kobe was a competitor above all else. Then he signed that extension...
The money, and not to be undersold, the ability to stay a Laker, is also very important.
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saacman5033
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| NastyNas_87 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | NastyNas_87 wrote: | | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | Option 1 is the ONLY feasible idea in that article.
"Indirectly" tank to make sure we get a top 5 pick. Let Kobe chuck as many shots as he wants to go after Kareem's scoring title. |
No. The best option is trade Kobe to NY for Amare (contract expires next year rather than Kobe's which sticks for 2 years). Tank like our lives depend on it for a top 5 pick.
Use the free agency money this summer to make a run at the big names. With no Kobe, maybe someone signs for a chance to be the man in LA.
Resign Kobe in 2016 after his 2 years in NY are over for his farewell tour. For all we know, we might have a contender by then made up of Randle/our top 5 pick/and a max free agent. |
No, the best option would be to trade Kobe for actual assets. Trading him for nothing would be dumb. |
no one with actual assets to trade for Kobe would want him. Kobe's huge cap number makes him almost impossible to trade to a contender w/o them gutting the team.
The only team I can imagine wanting Kobe and Kobe also wanting to go to is New York. |
No matter how much Kobe would want to go somewhere it would have to benefit the Lakers for a deal to happen. Kobe for Amare does not benefit the Lakers... not gonna happen. |
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NastyNas_87
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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| saacman5033 wrote: | | Jeggs wrote: | | I see Knicks as the bigger attraction...you can't tell me the charlotte hornets with al jefferson and walker is more attractive than a big market like NY, with Phil Jackson, Derek fisher, the triangle offense, and Carmelo Anthony already in place. They would be a playoff team at least. |
I can't see any NY deal that would be attractive to LA. |
A deal with NY would be largely to benefit Kobe. The Lakers would benefit only in that it helps us bottom out quicker while also shedding Kobe's large salary.
Amare expires this summer thus Lakers would have cap space to sign 2 max free agents along with the ability to keep our top 5 pick.
Also the NY deal means that in the future Phil will provide Jeanie some favors just like she gave him a favor this time by giving him Kobe for nothing.
Kobe has a no trade clause. Thus he'll only accept a trade to a contender of his choice. No contender will give up much for him without totally gutting their team. No team with alot of young assets would want him because they are no closer to winning and would just redo what is happening in LA right now. If Kobe leaves, the only choice is New York. |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Gimme_the_rock wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | Lakers need the draw more than they need the pick. They knew this when they gave Kobe that deal. They werent expecting a title. |
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I can see the practicality in trading Kobe from a strict roster-building sense, but this sentiment trumps all. We can't roll out a Sixers-level roster for the next two seasons. |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| On a side note. If such a trade were to happen, Kobe would definitely not be seen as "riding coattails." One of the players in this equation has five rings while the other has never even made a Finals. Melo needs Kobe just as much as Kobe needs someone like Memo. |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| On a side note. If such a trade were to happen, Kobe would definitely not be seen as "riding coattails." One of the players in this equation has five rings while the other has never even made a Finals. Melo needs Kobe just as much as Kobe needs someone like Melo. |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| On a side note, if such a trade were to happen, Kobe would definitely not be seen as "riding coattails." One of the players in this equation has five rings while the other has never even made a Finals. Melo needs Kobe just as much as Kobe needs someone like Melo. |
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dont_be_a_wuss
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| saacman5033 wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | If Nash netted Phoenix 4 picks and $3 million dollars cash, theres no reason Kobe can't net us 5 draft picks and $3 million. Not that I would trade him. Just looking at what he could net us. |
How many GM's are lining up to give away 5 picks for an old player eating up a third of the salary cap?  |
The way Orlando arranged the Dwight trade was 3 first round picks, one from each team involved in the four team trade. |
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chrisca91
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| I want Kobe on the mavs. Not sure how that's gonna work but Kobe + Dirk... Awesome basketball to watch. |
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P.K.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | Gimme_the_rock wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | Lakers need the draw more than they need the pick. They knew this when they gave Kobe that deal. They werent expecting a title. |
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I can see the practicality in trading Kobe from a strict roster-building sense, but this sentiment trumps all. We can't roll out a Sixers-level roster for the next two seasons. |
We already have
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LBJ + AD = More rings
Never argue with a fool - listeners can't tell you apart
Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI |
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LakersARETheGOAT
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| I'd root for kobe if he left or got traded. I'm still a lakers fan but also a kobe fan. As much as I hated how gasol sucked his last seasons with us, I'm rooting for drose even though I'm not a bulls fan at all but I'm a drose fan. |
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dont_be_a_wuss
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| P.K. wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | Gimme_the_rock wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | Lakers need the draw more than they need the pick. They knew this when they gave Kobe that deal. They werent expecting a title. |
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I can see the practicality in trading Kobe from a strict roster-building sense, but this sentiment trumps all. We can't roll out a Sixers-level roster for the next two seasons. |
We already have |
We tied them in the season series last year with a better roster. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| P.K. wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | Gimme_the_rock wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | Lakers need the draw more than they need the pick. They knew this when they gave Kobe that deal. They werent expecting a title. |
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I can see the practicality in trading Kobe from a strict roster-building sense, but this sentiment trumps all. We can't roll out a Sixers-level roster for the next two seasons. |
We already have |
There is no Kobe level draw on the Sixers.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Lakers_Jester
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| dabask11 wrote: | | Lakers_Jester wrote: | Weird thing is that kobe is supposed to be an attraction, but the longer it takes this team to rebuild with him on the team the less attracted I am to watching the lakers.
Are there really more kobe fans than lakers fans? People rather watch kobe lose and break records than support a young exciting team in full rebuild mode after they fully tank? I dunno the poll on this site about trading kobe says otherwise but of course that's just a small sample size. |
Did you see all the debates justifying kobe's contract because of how much money the lakers make from him?
Did you see how much revenue we brought in last year?
Yes, people will watch him regardless of team success. |
Yes, but are the kobe fans the majority/winners of the debates? Is the revenue only there because of kobe? Can there be equivalent or better attraction in supporting and cultivating a rebuild while possibly even being better in the process if we play our cards right.
Don't matter kobe is gonna retire here. |
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SGV-Laker fan
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | Gimme_the_rock wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | Lakers need the draw more than they need the pick. They knew this when they gave Kobe that deal. They werent expecting a title. |
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I can see the practicality in trading Kobe from a strict roster-building sense, but this sentiment trumps all. We can't roll out a Sixers-level roster for the next two seasons. |
unless you talking about the tourists who flock to Staples to watch Kobe play in person and neutral NBA fans who tune in to watch Kobe play on TV. but almost all Laker fans are willing to endure a fresh rebuild than watching this crap. sure it may take 2 years or more to rebuild, but at this pace with Kobe on the team, the rebuild won't even start until 2 years later. i'd trade Kobe right now for immediate cap space and future picks in a heart beat. question is who's willing to deal with LA.
Last edited by SGV-Laker fan on Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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NastyNas_87
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| saacman5033 wrote: | | NastyNas_87 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | NastyNas_87 wrote: | | KobeRe-Loaded wrote: | Option 1 is the ONLY feasible idea in that article.
"Indirectly" tank to make sure we get a top 5 pick. Let Kobe chuck as many shots as he wants to go after Kareem's scoring title. |
No. The best option is trade Kobe to NY for Amare (contract expires next year rather than Kobe's which sticks for 2 years). Tank like our lives depend on it for a top 5 pick.
Use the free agency money this summer to make a run at the big names. With no Kobe, maybe someone signs for a chance to be the man in LA.
Resign Kobe in 2016 after his 2 years in NY are over for his farewell tour. For all we know, we might have a contender by then made up of Randle/our top 5 pick/and a max free agent. |
No, the best option would be to trade Kobe for actual assets. Trading him for nothing would be dumb. |
no one with actual assets to trade for Kobe would want him. Kobe's huge cap number makes him almost impossible to trade to a contender w/o them gutting the team.
The only team I can imagine wanting Kobe and Kobe also wanting to go to is New York. |
No matter how much Kobe would want to go somewhere it would have to benefit the Lakers for a deal to happen. Kobe for Amare does not benefit the Lakers... not gonna happen. |
Signing Kobe to a $48.5 million deal when no one else was going to didn't benefit the Lakers and they did it anyways.
(1) I think the Lakers will trade Kobe to placate him. They know they can't get anywhere close to equal value for him at this stage. And they know that they're going nowhere with or without him.
(2) Kobe for Amare does benefit the Lakers. It sheds $25 million of the cap for next summer. And it helps the team tank so that we keep our pick from Phoenix.
You're not gonna get a Andrew Wiggins type deal for Kobe at this stage and with his contract. All we can hope for is to shed salary and maybe pick up cheap young players or draft picks with the hopes that we are so bad this season that we keep our pick from phoenix.
That is how bad things are now in LA. |
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Mini Mamba
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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I have a hard time imagining Kobe leaving for a variety of reasons.
Kobe is smart enough to realize that turning this team around will take some time and won't happen overnight.
While he isn't known for being the most patient person he needs to be right now and he has said he has faith in Jim and Jeannie.
Quitting on this team before giving them a chance to fully implement their plan would set this team back even further.
In order to be successful we need to have stability to be able to develop chemistry and cohesion. The Spurs for example have had Duncan, Parker, Ginobli, and Popovich together for the past 10+ years and are always in the championship hunt.
Kobe has a great relationship with Scott and I have a hard time imagining him leaving before giving him a legitimate chance to establish this teams identity.
Unfortunately losing in the short term may be best for him and the team in the long run.
Getting a top 5 pick to either keep and develop or trade to acquire more immediate help, Randle returning healthy next season and having cap space this summer gives us our best chance to win another championship. |
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dont_be_a_wuss
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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Our ratings fell more than 50% last year with Kobe on the bench. No reason to assume the same wouldn't happen if we traded him. Although we are still yet to see what a bottom feeder team with Kobe draws.
Last edited by dont_be_a_wuss on Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| People still pay to see Kobe. He's the reason the Staples Center will still be filled (though perhaps not as star-studded as time goes on.) The Sixers meanwhile have a half filled arena nightly and they're not a revenue sharing team. Their tank job is costing them a lot of money. |
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SGV-Laker fan
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | People still pay to see Kobe. He's the reason the Staples Center will still be filled (though perhaps not as star-studded as time goes on.) The Sixers meanwhile have a half filled arena nightly and they're not a revenue sharing team. Their tank job is costing them a lot of money. |
big difference, Philly isn't a basketball town LA is. even during the bad years in early 90's Forum was still packed majority of times. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | People still pay to see Kobe. He's the reason the Staples Center will still be filled (though perhaps not as star-studded as time goes on.) The Sixers meanwhile have a half filled arena nightly and they're not a revenue sharing team. Their tank job is costing them a lot of money. |
big difference, Philly isn't a basketball town LA is. even during the bad years in early 90's Forum was still packed majority of times. |
Yup. Attendance last season was actually higher than in 2002 interestingly enough.
Ironically, a lot of people are blaming our FO for not doing what the Philly FO is doing. Hoarding assets. |
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saacman5033
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| NastyNas_87 wrote: | | They know they can't get anywhere close to equal value for him at this stage. And they know that they're going nowhere with or without him. |
Exactly, which is why they won't trade him. They can't get anything close to value for him, but they do get value from trotting him out there for the fans. No point just trading him to exaggerate the tank job; that would piss fans off and the Lakers will lose plenty of games this year with or without Kobe and likely have a good chance at keeping their pick regardless.
| NastyNas_87 wrote: | | (1) I think the Lakers will trade Kobe to placate him. |
This I disagree with. Kobe decided he wasn't willing to take less money to allow for more talent around him, so he's the one who will look bad for whining. The FO won't be motivated to trade him unless they get back something of value, and we agree that that's not likely. FO says, "Get out there and earn those paychecks Kobe, and shoot for some scoring titles while you're at it." |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | People still pay to see Kobe. He's the reason the Staples Center will still be filled (though perhaps not as star-studded as time goes on.) The Sixers meanwhile have a half filled arena nightly and they're not a revenue sharing team. Their tank job is costing them a lot of money. |
big difference, Philly isn't a basketball town LA is. even during the bad years in early 90's Forum was still packed majority of times. |
Yup. Attendance last season was actually higher than in 2002 interestingly enough.
Ironically, a lot of people are blaming our FO for not doing what the Philly FO is doing. Hoarding assets. |
Monetarily, the TV ratings are more important, and they slide heavily when Kobe is out.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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