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SGV-Laker fan Star Player
Joined: 23 May 2013 Posts: 8842
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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:00 am Post subject: |
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i hope i'm wrong here and overreacting. but i am afraid by hiring a new front office regime specialized in analyticals and "money ball" would waste away our current stars' prime. Han Ram is already let go, we have to maximize the next 3 years of AGon and Kemp, not just holding steady in order to rebuild a farm system when we're just a couple pieces away from a WS title. |
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KobeRe-Loaded Franchise Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2003 Posts: 14944
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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:23 am Post subject: |
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SGV-Laker fan wrote: | i hope i'm wrong here and overreacting. but i am afraid by hiring a new front office regime specialized in analyticals and "money ball" would waste away our current stars' prime. Han Ram is already let go, we have to maximize the next 3 years of AGon and Kemp, not just holding steady in order to rebuild a farm system when we're just a couple pieces away from a WS title. |
Yes you are. _________________ #11/08/16 America became GREAT again
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spideysense Star Player
Joined: 21 Oct 2007 Posts: 2219
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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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SGV-Laker fan wrote: | i hope i'm wrong here and overreacting. but i am afraid by hiring a new front office regime specialized in analyticals and "money ball" would waste away our current stars' prime. Han Ram is already let go, we have to maximize the next 3 years of AGon and Kemp, not just holding steady in order to rebuild a farm system when we're just a couple pieces away from a WS title. |
I think they are going to play "money ball" with money. I hope that if there is an ascending/prime FA talent on the market, the dodgers go all in. But the contracts that Han Ram and Russel Martin would've been an albatross sooner rather than later. _________________ "Rome wasn't built in a day" |
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srm90 Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Dec 2007 Posts: 10662
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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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I hate to see Hanley go, but it was for the best. If we offered him that much money it would've become a detriment to the team not far from now. He's better suited for the American League these days anyway where he can eventually transition to DH. _________________ |
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Nissan Star Player
Joined: 30 Dec 2006 Posts: 1031
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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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SGV-Laker fan wrote: | i hope i'm wrong here and overreacting. but i am afraid by hiring a new front office regime specialized in analyticals and "money ball" would waste away our current stars' prime. Han Ram is already let go, we have to maximize the next 3 years of AGon and Kemp, not just holding steady in order to rebuild a farm system when we're just a couple pieces away from a WS title. |
The Dodgers really had no choice with Hanley because of his history of injuries. You don't offer or match a deal like he got from the Red Sox when he is past his prime and has not been healthy. The Dodgers already have a future starting SS in the farm system. He is better suited to be playing DH in the AL.
Giving him a long term deal would make things a little more difficult adding pieces to the bullpen. |
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rwongega Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2005 Posts: 20510 Location: UCLA -> NY
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Hard_Butter Franchise Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2012 Posts: 12223 Location: The Two One Three
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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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Moses wrote: | DuncanIdaho wrote: |
According to the article he has 5/107 left which is a bargain if he continues to play like he did in the second half. Not sure why they want to deal him. If we lose Kemp and Hanley, we lose 2 of our 3 best hitters. Can't be good for winning games. |
Kemp is my favorite Dodger. I'd be furious if we traded him right at the moment where he's starting to look like the old Kemp again. |
Agreed. Letting go of Hanley is one thing, but to lose Kemp as well would be a mistake, imo. He was our best hitter the second half of last season, and I'd hate the thought of losing him if, indeed, he fully comes back to form. I hope the FO can somehow dump both CC and Eithier. An opening day outfield of Joc, Puig, and Kemp is what I want to see. _________________ The butter's hard and the eggs are chillin' in the dark.
Kiss my Converse. |
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kcxiv Star Player
Joined: 25 Nov 2005 Posts: 3911
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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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EchoZulu wrote: | Moses wrote: | DuncanIdaho wrote: |
According to the article he has 5/107 left which is a bargain if he continues to play like he did in the second half. Not sure why they want to deal him. If we lose Kemp and Hanley, we lose 2 of our 3 best hitters. Can't be good for winning games. |
Kemp is my favorite Dodger. I'd be furious if we traded him right at the moment where he's starting to look like the old Kemp again. |
Agreed. Letting go of Hanley is one thing, but to lose Kemp as well would be a mistake, imo. He was our best hitter the second half of last season, and I'd hate the thought of losing him if, indeed, he fully comes back to form. I hope the FO can somehow dump both CC and Eithier. An opening day outfield of Joc, Puig, and Kemp is what I want to see. |
Thats the only outfield thats really acceptable. Trading Kemp would be stupid, he was the reason why we came back from so far to win the West. Completely blew it after that, but it wasnt kemps fautl |
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DuncanIdaho Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 17197 Location: In a no-ship
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Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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Hanley's goodbye on instagram.. classy:
Quote: | hanleyramirez13
6 hours ago
Thank you God for the blessing of allowing me to wear #Dodgerblue, where I learned how to be a winner, where I shared so many exciting and unforgettable moments with, and received so much love from my beloved #HanleyWood fans. Our 2 division championships in 2 years brought me some of the best times of my career, and I will be forever grateful for that. GRACIAS. @dodgers |
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ribeye Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2001 Posts: 12612
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Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:07 am Post subject: |
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I really don't care which outfielder, or outfielders, are traded, as long as they fill holes. The Dodgers need a #4 or better starter, a reliable set-up man, a shortstop, a second set-up man, maybe another starter and catcher, in that order.
Outfield is a position of strength, real strength, for the Dodgers. If they receive value for value, they can easily get the first two needs easily. My preference for a trade (and the inverse order of value for the outfielders I suspect most would have): Eithier, Crawford, Van Slyke, Pederson, Kemp and Puig. The Dodgers also have some excess in the infield, with Gordan, Turner and Guerrero, all second basemen with talent.
My first shot would be for the guy I want every year, Troy Tulowitzki. I'd give Puig up for that guy. Puig is younger and has a much better salary--dollar value to WAR--so maybe it is not that much of a reach.
Scot Van Slyke had a WAR of 2.7 playing half-time. If the Dodgers could get a starting pitcher with a WAR in that area, they'd be fine. To give an idea of who would fit, how about Geo Gonzales (Washington's 5th starter unbelievably): 10-10; 3.74; WAR, 2.3--though I don't expect such a deal. Washington doesn't need an outfielder as much as a 2nd baseman, so maybe Gordon (+), with a WAR of 2.4 (or Turner (4.3) or Guerrero).
Crawford for a solid bullpen guy or back of the rotation starter/long reliever, would make it a good off-season. Now, just to get the other teams to agree. . . . _________________ "A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo" |
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SGV-Laker fan Star Player
Joined: 23 May 2013 Posts: 8842
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Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:26 am Post subject: |
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Giants are after Jon Lester hard, we need to do the same FAST |
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rwongega Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2005 Posts: 20510 Location: UCLA -> NY
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Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:48 am Post subject: |
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ribeye wrote: | I really don't care which outfielder, or outfielders, are traded, as long as they fill holes. The Dodgers need a #4 or better starter, a reliable set-up man, a shortstop, a second set-up man, maybe another starter and catcher, in that order.
Outfield is a position of strength, real strength, for the Dodgers. If they receive value for value, they can easily get the first two needs easily. My preference for a trade (and the inverse order of value for the outfielders I suspect most would have): Eithier, Crawford, Van Slyke, Pederson, Kemp and Puig. The Dodgers also have some excess in the infield, with Gordan, Turner and Guerrero, all second basemen with talent.
My first shot would be for the guy I want every year, Troy Tulowitzki. I'd give Puig up for that guy. Puig is younger and has a much better salary--dollar value to WAR--so maybe it is not that much of a reach.
Scot Van Slyke had a WAR of 2.7 playing half-time. If the Dodgers could get a starting pitcher with a WAR in that area, they'd be fine. To give an idea of who would fit, how about Geo Gonzales (Washington's 5th starter unbelievably): 10-10; 3.74; WAR, 2.3--though I don't expect such a deal. Washington doesn't need an outfielder as much as a 2nd baseman, so maybe Gordon (+), with a WAR of 2.4 (or Turner (4.3) or Guerrero).
Crawford for a solid bullpen guy or back of the rotation starter/long reliever, would make it a good off-season. Now, just to get the other teams to agree. . . . |
I love Tulo but he makes Hanley's durability look like Cal Ripken Jr. in comparison. In addition, his price will be gauged on production in Coors Field when away, he doesn't really give you more offensively than Hanley. Historically, he's been awful at Dodger Stadium (though in part because we have quality pitchers). Defensively, he'd be great but again, I don't know how much this injury history is going to continue to cost him there in the long run. I wouldn't give up Puig for him. _________________ http://media.giphy.com/media/zNyBPu5hEFpu/giphy.gif
http://bartsblackboard.com/files/2009/11/The-Simpsons-05x18-Burns-Heir.jpg
RIP Jonathan Tang
RIP Alex Gruenberg
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nickuku Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2010 Posts: 7844 Location: Orange County
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Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:58 am Post subject: |
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rwongega wrote: | ribeye wrote: | I really don't care which outfielder, or outfielders, are traded, as long as they fill holes. The Dodgers need a #4 or better starter, a reliable set-up man, a shortstop, a second set-up man, maybe another starter and catcher, in that order.
Outfield is a position of strength, real strength, for the Dodgers. If they receive value for value, they can easily get the first two needs easily. My preference for a trade (and the inverse order of value for the outfielders I suspect most would have): Eithier, Crawford, Van Slyke, Pederson, Kemp and Puig. The Dodgers also have some excess in the infield, with Gordan, Turner and Guerrero, all second basemen with talent.
My first shot would be for the guy I want every year, Troy Tulowitzki. I'd give Puig up for that guy. Puig is younger and has a much better salary--dollar value to WAR--so maybe it is not that much of a reach.
Scot Van Slyke had a WAR of 2.7 playing half-time. If the Dodgers could get a starting pitcher with a WAR in that area, they'd be fine. To give an idea of who would fit, how about Geo Gonzales (Washington's 5th starter unbelievably): 10-10; 3.74; WAR, 2.3--though I don't expect such a deal. Washington doesn't need an outfielder as much as a 2nd baseman, so maybe Gordon (+), with a WAR of 2.4 (or Turner (4.3) or Guerrero).
Crawford for a solid bullpen guy or back of the rotation starter/long reliever, would make it a good off-season. Now, just to get the other teams to agree. . . . |
I love Tulo but he makes Hanley's durability look like Cal Ripken Jr. in comparison. In addition, his price will be gauged on production in Coors Field when away, he doesn't really give you more offensively than Hanley. Historically, he's been awful at Dodger Stadium (though in part because we have quality pitchers). Defensively, he'd be great but again, I don't know how much this injury history is going to continue to cost him there in the long run. I wouldn't give up Puig for him. |
I'm not a huge fan of him given his stats outside of Coors field. Last year i believe he was batting .260 or something at away games. _________________ Don't let perfect be the enemy of good |
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nickuku Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2010 Posts: 7844 Location: Orange County
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jonnybravo Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 30621
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Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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nickuku wrote: | http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/splits/_/id/28567/troy-tulowitzki
As i suspected. Look at his away splits. |
Yeah, we discussed Tulo at length at the trade deadline on here. Last year's home/away splits had a mammoth variation. I wanted him until I saw that. Tread with caution. |
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ribeye Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2001 Posts: 12612
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Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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nickuku wrote: | http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/splits/_/id/28567/troy-tulowitzki
As i suspected. Look at his away splits. |
I am well aware of this. Regardless, he's still the best shortstop in the game. _________________ "A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo" |
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DuncanIdaho Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 17197 Location: In a no-ship
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Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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jonnybravo wrote: | nickuku wrote: | http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/splits/_/id/28567/troy-tulowitzki
As i suspected. Look at his away splits. |
Yeah, we discussed Tulo at length at the trade deadline on here. Last year's home/away splits had a mammoth variation. I wanted him until I saw that. Tread with caution. |
There's some pretty good statistical analysis out there that playing in Coors depresses those players away splits because they have to re-adjust to pitching in regular air. It generally puts the Rockies in a several-game disadvantage before the season even starts.
http://www.purplerow.com/2014/5/15/5712224/the-numbers-are-lying |
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KobeRe-Loaded Franchise Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2003 Posts: 14944
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Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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Not a fan of Tulo and the perennial DL visits.
I am open to somehow getting Cole Hamels especially since Greinke can opt out after next year.
How about a Jose Reyes while we are at it _________________ #11/08/16 America became GREAT again
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Moses Star Player
Joined: 23 Aug 2008 Posts: 8262 Location: London
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Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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ribeye wrote: | I really don't care which outfielder, or outfielders, are traded, as long as they fill holes. The Dodgers need a #4 or better starter, a reliable set-up man, a shortstop, a second set-up man, maybe another starter and catcher, in that order.
Outfield is a position of strength, real strength, for the Dodgers. If they receive value for value, they can easily get the first two needs easily. My preference for a trade (and the inverse order of value for the outfielders I suspect most would have): Eithier, Crawford, Van Slyke, Pederson, Kemp and Puig. The Dodgers also have some excess in the infield, with Gordan, Turner and Guerrero, all second basemen with talent.
My first shot would be for the guy I want every year, Troy Tulowitzki. I'd give Puig up for that guy. Puig is younger and has a much better salary--dollar value to WAR--so maybe it is not that much of a reach.
Scot Van Slyke had a WAR of 2.7 playing half-time. If the Dodgers could get a starting pitcher with a WAR in that area, they'd be fine. To give an idea of who would fit, how about Geo Gonzales (Washington's 5th starter unbelievably): 10-10; 3.74; WAR, 2.3--though I don't expect such a deal. Washington doesn't need an outfielder as much as a 2nd baseman, so maybe Gordon (+), with a WAR of 2.4 (or Turner (4.3) or Guerrero).
Crawford for a solid bullpen guy or back of the rotation starter/long reliever, would make it a good off-season. Now, just to get the other teams to agree. . . . |
I want our starting OF to read Pederson - Puig - Kemp on opening day, I'd gladly get rid of CC & Ethier to any takers. _________________ Lakers, Chargers, Dodgers, Arsenal FC.
Mamba Forever
The Marathon Continues
Still I Rise |
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rwongega Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2005 Posts: 20510 Location: UCLA -> NY
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Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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ribeye wrote: | nickuku wrote: | http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/splits/_/id/28567/troy-tulowitzki
As i suspected. Look at his away splits. |
I am well aware of this. Regardless, he's still the best shortstop in the game. |
For half a season anyways or if injuries are turned off on a video game. I just don't know if we can trust him to be healthy and ready for when the playoffs come around. If the price is right (i.e Crockies GM has an aneurysm), absolutely. But they'll demand the world and that'll be too much. _________________ http://media.giphy.com/media/zNyBPu5hEFpu/giphy.gif
http://bartsblackboard.com/files/2009/11/The-Simpsons-05x18-Burns-Heir.jpg
RIP Jonathan Tang
RIP Alex Gruenberg
Free KBCB |
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jonnybravo Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 30621
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Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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DuncanIdaho wrote: | jonnybravo wrote: | nickuku wrote: | http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/splits/_/id/28567/troy-tulowitzki
As i suspected. Look at his away splits. |
Yeah, we discussed Tulo at length at the trade deadline on here. Last year's home/away splits had a mammoth variation. I wanted him until I saw that. Tread with caution. |
There's some pretty good statistical analysis out there that playing in Coors depresses those players away splits because they have to re-adjust to pitching in regular air. It generally puts the Rockies in a several-game disadvantage before the season even starts.
http://www.purplerow.com/2014/5/15/5712224/the-numbers-are-lying |
Interesting read. There's still the injury factor which for him is as bad if not worse than Hanley's. |
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ribeye Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2001 Posts: 12612
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:26 am Post subject: |
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jonnybravo wrote: | DuncanIdaho wrote: | jonnybravo wrote: | nickuku wrote: | http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/splits/_/id/28567/troy-tulowitzki
As i suspected. Look at his away splits. |
Yeah, we discussed Tulo at length at the trade deadline on here. Last year's home/away splits had a mammoth variation. I wanted him until I saw that. Tread with caution. |
There's some pretty good statistical analysis out there that playing in Coors depresses those players away splits because they have to re-adjust to pitching in regular air. It generally puts the Rockies in a several-game disadvantage before the season even starts.
http://www.purplerow.com/2014/5/15/5712224/the-numbers-are-lying |
Interesting read. There's still the injury factor which for him is as bad if not worse than Hanley's. |
Agree. Very interesting read. Good find DI!
Also, though his injury factor is a viable point, at least he can still play shortstop at a high level, a very high level. The Dodgers didn't need another left fielder.
As an aside, what I don't understand is how Andrelton Simmons has a DWAR of 3.9, yet Tulo's is 1.2. The black box data, as its been called, the collection of data of where a ball is hit, how long it was in the air, is a reasonable approach, but this still has a subjective basis, and we must always look at the results.
Simmons (top) v Tulo (from ESPN):
Code: | TC PO A E DP FPCT RF DWAR
642 217 411 14 99 .978 4.43 3.9
392 119 269 04 59 .990 4.72 1.2 |
Not only does Tulo have a better fielding percent and range, his ratios of errors to assists, errors to double plays, and errors to put outs, are better. Yet the huge discrepancy in DWAR. _________________ "A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo" |
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rwongega Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2005 Posts: 20510 Location: UCLA -> NY
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Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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http://m.dodgers.mlb.com/news/article/102459944/dodgers-seek-short-term-solution-at-shortstop-with-hanley-ramirezs-departure
Quote: | Andrew Friedman disagrees. He and the club's new management team watched many of Seager's games in the just-concluded Arizona Fall League and came away believing that Seager should remain at shortstop.
"I'm convinced that I would not move him off shortstop right now -- his hands work really well, and we have a number of guys who think he has a real chance to stick there," Friedman said earlier this month. "The few number of games we got to see him, he had a number of different chances and completed plays from all different angles. ... It's a difficult thing to project but we're going to give him every chance; it's of significant value if he can play there. The little I've gotten to know him, I would not bet against him."
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Not much out there for SS, maybe Asdrubal Cabrera in the hopes he returns to a .270/20/70 level? Hope Stephen Drew has a comeback player of the year season? _________________ http://media.giphy.com/media/zNyBPu5hEFpu/giphy.gif
http://bartsblackboard.com/files/2009/11/The-Simpsons-05x18-Burns-Heir.jpg
RIP Jonathan Tang
RIP Alex Gruenberg
Free KBCB |
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jonnybravo Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 30621
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Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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You know, tell you the truth, this team as constructed is MORE than enough to go all the way. It's just a matter of clicking on all cylinders at the right time. |
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rwongega Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2005 Posts: 20510 Location: UCLA -> NY
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