OFFICIAL Kobe Play Discussion and P&M Thread
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 47, 48, 49 ... 113, 114, 115  Next
 
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
ringfinger
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:42 pm    Post subject:

angus wrote:
KEEPING IT SIMPLE STAT:
Kobe is #25 in the NBA among qualified SGs in FG% (#26 Adjusted FG%). Basically about the worst among regular starters.

Lin is #4 FG% (real and adjusted) among all PGs in the NBA at .487.

Hmmm... does it take much coaching skill to think perhaps Kobe's chucking needs to be toned down a bit in the 4th, and some plays for Lin designed other than him having to make it happen himself, perhaps a pass BACK to him?


Coaching skill?

You think Byron Scott is the puppeteer here?

Kobe is the puppeteer AND the puppet.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
lakersken80
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38749

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:54 pm    Post subject:

angus wrote:
KEEPING IT SIMPLE STAT:
Kobe is #25 in the NBA among qualified SGs in FG% (#26 Adjusted FG%). Basically about the worst among regular starters.

Lin is #4 FG% (real and adjusted) among all PGs in the NBA at .487.

Hmmm... does it take much coaching skill to think perhaps Kobe's chucking needs to be toned down a bit in the 4th, and some plays for Lin designed other than him having to make it happen himself, perhaps a pass BACK to him?


Lin isn't a volume scorer and he's afraid to shoot the ball...his FG percentages would fall if he were to double his current volume. You make it sound like Kobe is freezing him out of games when Lin isn't even willing to shoot the ball, and instead defers to guys like Boozer. Lin's worst games have been against his former teams, where he only attempted 2 FGA and 6 FGA versus the Warriors and 5FGA attempts versus the Rockets. Nobody is stopping him from shooting the rock. Heck, Lin is a better overall player when you compare him against Wes Johnson, but you look at his FGA for the same games in comparison, he had 9FGA and 11FGA for the two Warriors games, and 6FGA versus the Rockets. Lin only has himself to blame for not being more aggressive.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
angus
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 31 Jul 2014
Posts: 253

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:02 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
angus wrote:
KEEPING IT SIMPLE STAT:
Kobe is #25 in the NBA among qualified SGs in FG% (#26 Adjusted FG%). Basically about the worst among regular starters.

Lin is #4 FG% (real and adjusted) among all PGs in the NBA at .487.

Hmmm... does it take much coaching skill to think perhaps Kobe's chucking needs to be toned down a bit in the 4th, and some plays for Lin designed other than him having to make it happen himself, perhaps a pass BACK to him?


Lin isn't a volume scorer and he's afraid to shoot the ball...his FG percentages would fall if he were to double his current volume. You make it sound like Kobe is freezing him out of games when Lin isn't even willing to shoot the ball, and instead defers to guys like Boozer. Lin's worst games have been against his former teams, where he only attempted 2 FGA and 6 FGA versus the Warriors and 5FGA attempts versus the Rockets. Nobody is stopping him from shooting the rock.


Uh, have you been watching the games? 4th qtrs lately?

Just the most recent example in attitude, and there are several clips out there with wide open Lin waving his arms as Kobe goes iso against two or three not even looking to pass.
Int'n Business Times Article with video: "Kobe Bryant Instructs His Teammates To 'Get The F*** Out of The Way' http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/573874/20141125/kobe-bryant-los-angeles-lakers-jeremy-lin.htm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
lakersken80
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38749

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:06 pm    Post subject:

angus wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
angus wrote:
KEEPING IT SIMPLE STAT:
Kobe is #25 in the NBA among qualified SGs in FG% (#26 Adjusted FG%). Basically about the worst among regular starters.

Lin is #4 FG% (real and adjusted) among all PGs in the NBA at .487.

Hmmm... does it take much coaching skill to think perhaps Kobe's chucking needs to be toned down a bit in the 4th, and some plays for Lin designed other than him having to make it happen himself, perhaps a pass BACK to him?


Lin isn't a volume scorer and he's afraid to shoot the ball...his FG percentages would fall if he were to double his current volume. You make it sound like Kobe is freezing him out of games when Lin isn't even willing to shoot the ball, and instead defers to guys like Boozer. Lin's worst games have been against his former teams, where he only attempted 2 FGA and 6 FGA versus the Warriors and 5FGA attempts versus the Rockets. Nobody is stopping him from shooting the rock.


Uh, have you been watching the games? 4th qtrs lately?

Just the most recent example in attitude, and there are several clips out there with wide open Lin waving his arms as Kobe goes iso against two or three not even looking to pass.
Int'n Business Times Article with video: "Kobe Bryant Instructs His Teammates To 'Get The F*** Out of The Way' http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/573874/20141125/kobe-bryant-los-angeles-lakers-jeremy-lin.htm


I have watched every game...it seems like you want to see what you want to hear. I don't need to read an article from a 3rd party when I saw the game with my own eyes. Reading your posts, from the first game of the season, I already knew your biases.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
kikanga
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29150
Location: La La Land

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:10 pm    Post subject:

angus wrote:
KEEPING IT SIMPLE STAT:
Kobe is #25 in the NBA among qualified SGs in FG% (#26 Adjusted FG%). Basically about the worst among regular starters.

Lin is #4 FG% (real and adjusted) among all PGs in the NBA at .487.

Hmmm... does it take much coaching skill to think perhaps Kobe's chucking needs to be toned down a bit in the 4th, and some plays for Lin designed other than him having to make it happen himself, perhaps a pass BACK to him?


Lin is the point guard of this team. By definition, he runs the offense. All Lin needs to do is watch some Derek Fisher tape. Wave Kobe off when he asks for the ball, think a pass or 2 ahead in the offense, and improve defensive positioning on and off ball.

Lin has the size, athleticism, and passing instinct to be a top 15 PG in the league. His issues are all between the ears, and they existed prior to him sharing the backcourt with Kobe.
_________________
"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Cancun Van Exel
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 15 Oct 2014
Posts: 203

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:57 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Cancun Van Exel wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Cancun Van Exel wrote:
OCWA wrote:
I blame the FO more than Kobe. Kobe's mentality is what made him so great but everybody knew that this would happen once Kobe's athleticism diminished. There is a reason old superstars usually wrap up their career with a different organization. Front office's usually make the tough but necessary decision to move on or ask the star to take a diminished role. This FO's unwillingness to make that decision will cripple the team for an extended period.

Dr Buss brilliantly got rid of Shaq a little too soon rather than too late. When this FO was faced with a similar decision they failed miserably.


TRUTH. This is the exact reason why we're terrible this year (and last). I didn't like Howard's personality, but you have to build around him because good offensive players will come play with him because they know they'll get the ball. Its an obvious mistake made by Jim Buss who is afraid to do anything but placate Kobe (i.e. hiring a coach who Kobe wanted probably).


I would love to see that long list of players who want to play with Howard.


Who said how long it is? All we'd need is a star or two.That said here's a couple names for you: JAMES HARDEN, CHANDLER PARSONS and how about his AAU buddy from his youth CHRIS PAUL.

Guys like DURANT, LOVE and CARMELO also would fit rather nicely with Dwight, given they don't really need to post up so much. This combined with the cache of the Lakers name would have kept us in contention without this bottoming out phase. Our FO is brain dead. They don't have a clue what they're doing and what we're seeing on the court is the embodiment of many bad decisions.


He joined Harden and Parsons, not the other way around. And then Parsons left. Players know who Howard really is, why do you think there was immediate tension when he came to the Lakers? They know he isn't a winner. Losing Howard is one thing that I give the Laker FO high marks on.


Then I guess you like rooting for a team that wins 15 games instead of staying in contention for championships. You're totally wrong about Howard. He's a good enough center to build around. He needs help but he's having a HOF career and nobody knows what any of the bigs that are draft eligible will do in the league.

You asked for players that want to play with Howard. HOU recruited him extremely hard and Parsons was the point man in the communication. They wanted him to come, he did and guess what, they're contenders while we sit in the lottery. You got what you wanted. Let the best C in the game walk for nothing and sit and watch Kobe chuck fadeaway jumpers for 3 years. Jim Buss has to go. Major mistakes over and over.
_________________
Championships since NBA/ABA merger in '76: Lakers 10 - Celtics 5 - Clippers 0 --- Phil Jackson 10 - Doc Rivers 1
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Tagurt
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 03 Jun 2012
Posts: 739

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:27 pm    Post subject:

The only ones who think Howard is a difficult teammate are Laker fans who are somehow still salty that he did not decide to stay. Even Orlando fans don't spew baseless venoms at him anymore. It's beyond a reasonable doubt that Kobe is difficult to work with for both his teammates and his coaches.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Avada
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 14 Nov 2014
Posts: 171

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:35 pm    Post subject:

Yet Kobe is the one with 5 rings while Howard will retire with zero. Funny.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
petergr
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 03 May 2012
Posts: 1519
Location: kiki

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:25 pm    Post subject:

This game says it all
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Bladers
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 14 Jun 2010
Posts: 507

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:01 pm    Post subject:

Was impressed by kobe's game today. we played good as a team. just missed some shots at the end.

I have no problem with kobe's 2 threes at the end. they came in the flow of the offense. plus they were not forced. i can live with those. he has to hit them though.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Laker Intervention
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 21 Jan 2013
Posts: 2201

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:03 pm    Post subject:

Bladers wrote:
Was impressed by kobe's game today. we played good as a team. just missed some shots at the end.

I have no problem with kobe's 2 threes at the end. they came in the flow of the offense. plus they were not forced. i can live with those. he has to hit them though.


Agreed. The turnovers is something he can't let happen either. Second loss in a row we could have easily won.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Avada
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 14 Nov 2014
Posts: 171

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:06 pm    Post subject:

i thought he played a good game. couldn't believe all the people trying to pin this loss on him in the game thread. meanwhile lin and young also struggled mightily in the fourth and nobody says anything. offensive system is just all kinds of (bleep) up.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
KobeDGreatesss
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 09 Jul 2012
Posts: 722

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:25 pm    Post subject:

What do you guys think is going through Kobe's head right now with all this losing?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:27 pm    Post subject:

Avada wrote:
i thought he played a good game. couldn't believe all the people trying to pin this loss on him in the game thread. meanwhile lin and young also struggled mightily in the fourth and nobody says anything. offensive system is just all kinds of (bleep) up.

In the words of Danny Glover. "I'm too old for this (bleep)."
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
lakersken80
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38749

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:08 pm    Post subject:

KobeDGreatesss wrote:
What do you guys think is going through Kobe's head right now with all this losing?


Probably hoping he doesn't get injured wasting another year of his career....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
dabask11
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 27 Dec 2012
Posts: 1989

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:15 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
KobeDGreatesss wrote:
What do you guys think is going through Kobe's head right now with all this losing?


Probably hoping he doesn't get injured wasting another year of his career....


More like $$$$$$$$$$$$
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Treble Clef
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 23742

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:20 pm    Post subject:

KobeDGreatesss wrote:
What do you guys think is going through Kobe's head right now with all this losing?


I think he has accepted it. A few years ago, if they lost a game and he played poorly in the end, he looked miserable. This year he seems to shake it right off.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
P.K.
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 10 Jul 2003
Posts: 29641

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:51 pm    Post subject:

Treble Clef wrote:
KobeDGreatesss wrote:
What do you guys think is going through Kobe's head right now with all this losing?


I think he has accepted it. A few years ago, if they lost a game and he played poorly in the end, he looked miserable. This year he seems to shake it right off.

I'm sure the $292,683.00 he's collecting for each game makes it somewhat more bearable
_________________
LBJ + AD = More rings
Never argue with a fool - listeners can't tell you apart
Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Nobody
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 13 Sep 2008
Posts: 5699
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia

PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:23 am    Post subject:

I won't try to sugarcoat the percentages, because they suck. But this fixation on FG% like it is the only thing that matters is slowly getting to me.

1) the team starts 4 players that wouldn't start on other teams. The lone exception is Lin, although I don't think he has the head to be a starting PF. Hill has never started before in his career, so it's more of a perfect situation for him (a crappy roster with no big men).

2) Kobe is coming off two horrific injuries. He's had month-long cold stretches like this when he was in his prime. If it still looks like this in January then we have a problem.

3) Are the people who are saying "Give Wes and Ed Davis more shots, they have a higher percentage!" watching these games? Davis' role on offense can't be anything else than a garbage man, because he doesn't have the necessary skill level needed for something more. You can't just dump the ball to him and expect him to do anything of use with it. So it's either offensive rebounds and putbacks, lobs and pick and rolls for him. And don't get me started with Wes. I don't think I've seen him create more than 2 shots for him this season. If I get to choose between Kobe and Wes bricking, I'll take Kobe, thanks.

4) The thing that is really bad is our defense. Just watch the first few possessions of last night's game again. Simply inexcusable breakdowns. That's what happens when you have only one player that cares to play defense (Davis, maybe two in Wes when he isn't drifting away) on your team.

He could tone it down a bit, though. If not, let some other teammates miss shots.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
madddogg
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 182

PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:23 am    Post subject:

Avada wrote:
i thought he played a good game. couldn't believe all the people trying to pin this loss on him in the game thread. meanwhile lin and young also struggled mightily in the fourth and nobody says anything. offensive system is just all kinds of (bleep) up.


I was at the game, lin struggle because he was iced by bscott. Took out 2 plus minutes to go in the third for price and put back 8 min left to go in the fourth.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
trunkz08
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 534

PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:27 am    Post subject:

madddogg wrote:
Avada wrote:
i thought he played a good game. couldn't believe all the people trying to pin this loss on him in the game thread. meanwhile lin and young also struggled mightily in the fourth and nobody says anything. offensive system is just all kinds of (bleep) up.


I was at the game, lin struggle because he was iced by bscott. Took out 2 plus minutes to go in the third for price and put back 8 min left to go in the fourth.


I agree, not sure why Byron takes Lin out so early when he's hot and puts him back in midway through the next quarter. It's like geez, take him totally out of rhythm why don't you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
ringfinger
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418

PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:32 am    Post subject:

Avada wrote:
i thought he played a good game. couldn't believe all the people trying to pin this loss on him in the game thread. meanwhile lin and young also struggled mightily in the fourth and nobody says anything. offensive system is just all kinds of (bleep) up.


Haha. For the most part the gameday thread was pretty positive with regard to Kobe I thought especially when you consider he didn't have a great game offensively.

All in all though no player is going to have it every night. Kobe hasn't had it many if any nights this season, but if he plays like he did in the first half for the rest of the season, I'd be pleased.

Would much rather see him lead like that then gun for some meaningless scoring milestone.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
GoldenThroat
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 37474

PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:34 am    Post subject:

Nobody wrote:
I won't try to sugarcoat the percentages, because they suck. But this fixation on FG% like it is the only thing that matters is slowly getting to me.

1) the team starts 4 players that wouldn't start on other teams. The lone exception is Lin, although I don't think he has the head to be a starting PF. Hill has never started before in his career, so it's more of a perfect situation for him (a crappy roster with no big men).

2) Kobe is coming off two horrific injuries. He's had month-long cold stretches like this when he was in his prime. If it still looks like this in January then we have a problem.

3) Are the people who are saying "Give Wes and Ed Davis more shots, they have a higher percentage!" watching these games? Davis' role on offense can't be anything else than a garbage man, because he doesn't have the necessary skill level needed for something more. You can't just dump the ball to him and expect him to do anything of use with it. So it's either offensive rebounds and putbacks, lobs and pick and rolls for him. And don't get me started with Wes. I don't think I've seen him create more than 2 shots for him this season. If I get to choose between Kobe and Wes bricking, I'll take Kobe, thanks.

4) The thing that is really bad is our defense. Just watch the first few possessions of last night's game again. Simply inexcusable breakdowns. That's what happens when you have only one player that cares to play defense (Davis, maybe two in Wes when he isn't drifting away) on your team.

He could tone it down a bit, though. If not, let some other teammates miss shots.


Did you watch the game tonight? They were actually quite functional on offense without Kobe shooting the ball very much.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Avada
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 14 Nov 2014
Posts: 171

PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:34 am    Post subject:

Why are people surprised that a 36 year old player coming off of two major injuries and having just missed an entire season is shooting poorly?
I wish Kobe would dial back his shot attempts, sure, but I’m not even a little surprised that his stroke, timing, rhythm, and legs aren’t there yet. The guy missed an entire season and had to rebuild his leg muscles. He’s clearly fatigued during games, particularly in the 4th quarter. Would be nice if we had a coach and a roster that would allow him to ease back in, but sadly that’s not the case. I see a guy trying to figure it out on the fly. New coach, new system, new teammates, and a new (lower) level of athleticism to adjust to. That’s a ton of stuff to adjust to and to have to do it all while he feels a burden to carry the team like the Kobe of old. I wish he’d dial it back and let the game come to him as he regains his rhythm, learns about his teammates, and build his stamina, but let’s be honest, that was never going to happen. The coach, roster, and Kobe’s personality won’t allow that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
madddogg
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 182

PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:43 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Nobody wrote:
I won't try to sugarcoat the percentages, because they suck. But this fixation on FG% like it is the only thing that matters is slowly getting to me.

1) the team starts 4 players that wouldn't start on other teams. The lone exception is Lin, although I don't think he has the head to be a starting PF. Hill has never started before in his career, so it's more of a perfect situation for him (a crappy roster with no big men).

2) Kobe is coming off two horrific injuries. He's had month-long cold stretches like this when he was in his prime. If it still looks like this in January then we have a problem.

3) Are the people who are saying "Give Wes and Ed Davis more shots, they have a higher percentage!" watching these games? Davis' role on offense can't be anything else than a garbage man, because he doesn't have the necessary skill level needed for something more. You can't just dump the ball to him and expect him to do anything of use with it. So it's either offensive rebounds and putbacks, lobs and pick and rolls for him. And don't get me started with Wes. I don't think I've seen him create more than 2 shots for him this season. If I get to choose between Kobe and Wes bricking, I'll take Kobe, thanks.

4) The thing that is really bad is our defense. Just watch the first few possessions of last night's game again. Simply inexcusable breakdowns. That's what happens when you have only one player that cares to play defense (Davis, maybe two in Wes when he isn't drifting away) on your team.

He could tone it down a bit, though. If not, let some other teammates miss shots.


Did you watch the game tonight? They were actually quite functional on offense without Kobe shooting the ball very much.


totally agree. kobe zero points midway through 2nd and lakers up by 8-9.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 47, 48, 49 ... 113, 114, 115  Next
Page 48 of 115
Jump to:  

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum






Graphics by uberzev
© 1995-2018 LakersGround.net. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy. Terms of Use.
LakersGround is an unofficial news source serving the fan community since 1995.
We are in no way associated with the Los Angeles Lakers or the National Basketball Association.


Powered by phpBB