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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:49 am Post subject: |
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Avada wrote: | Why are people surprised that a 36 year old player coming off of two major injuries and having just missed an entire season is shooting poorly?
I wish Kobe would dial back his shot attempts, sure, but I’m not even a little surprised that his stroke, timing, rhythm, and legs aren’t there yet. The guy missed an entire season and had to rebuild his leg muscles. He’s clearly fatigued during games, particularly in the 4th quarter. Would be nice if we had a coach and a roster that would allow him to ease back in, but sadly that’s not the case. I see a guy trying to figure it out on the fly. New coach, new system, new teammates, and a new (lower) level of athleticism to adjust to. That’s a ton of stuff to adjust to and to have to do it all while he feels a burden to carry the team like the Kobe of old. I wish he’d dial it back and let the game come to him as he regains his rhythm, learns about his teammates, and build his stamina, but let’s be honest, that was never going to happen. The coach, roster, and Kobe’s personality won’t allow that. |
You're new but prior to the season, there were many people discussing Kobe's projections.
If you stated that you expected Kobe to struggle after this injury, then you were a hater. In fact, if you believed he would be at all affected by age or the injuries, then that is hating. Go check out the preseason discussions.
The only thing that is surpising me about Kobe so far is his minutes, his shot. volume, his usage rate (2nd highest ever, too high) and his shooting efficiency.
Can't play Kobe 36 mins/game. Just can't. I was pushing for 32 but again, that's hating because it's a minutes reduction.
So many, many, many people are absolutely dumbfounded that he is struggling a bit. |
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kobe8One Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 May 2011 Posts: 633
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:00 am Post subject: |
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Long time Lakers fan here and this team is not build for playoffs period. We should enjoy watching kobe plays and each game could be his last. The black mamba pretty much killed everyone in the league. We are now playing for the future and kobe has accepted the role. kobe is now talking to teammates and passing the ball to our bigs for jump shots. Old kobe would never do that. Everything is about nothing but championships. Nowadays, we are going after the L instead of W. |
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Nobody Star Player
Joined: 13 Sep 2008 Posts: 5699 Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:11 am Post subject: |
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GoldenThroat wrote: | Nobody wrote: | I won't try to sugarcoat the percentages, because they suck. But this fixation on FG% like it is the only thing that matters is slowly getting to me.
1) the team starts 4 players that wouldn't start on other teams. The lone exception is Lin, although I don't think he has the head to be a starting PF. Hill has never started before in his career, so it's more of a perfect situation for him (a crappy roster with no big men).
2) Kobe is coming off two horrific injuries. He's had month-long cold stretches like this when he was in his prime. If it still looks like this in January then we have a problem.
3) Are the people who are saying "Give Wes and Ed Davis more shots, they have a higher percentage!" watching these games? Davis' role on offense can't be anything else than a garbage man, because he doesn't have the necessary skill level needed for something more. You can't just dump the ball to him and expect him to do anything of use with it. So it's either offensive rebounds and putbacks, lobs and pick and rolls for him. And don't get me started with Wes. I don't think I've seen him create more than 2 shots for him this season. If I get to choose between Kobe and Wes bricking, I'll take Kobe, thanks.
4) The thing that is really bad is our defense. Just watch the first few possessions of last night's game again. Simply inexcusable breakdowns. That's what happens when you have only one player that cares to play defense (Davis, maybe two in Wes when he isn't drifting away) on your team.
He could tone it down a bit, though. If not, let some other teammates miss shots. |
Did you watch the game tonight? They were actually quite functional on offense without Kobe shooting the ball very much. |
Watched it. How many times has that happened? Not to mention consistently? He should lower his FGA, I completely agree with that (it should read "should tone it down a bit" in my previous post), but Kobe not shooting the ball for entire halves is/was never a good thing... except in random stretches where the rest of the team hit the perfect storm. |
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Rivershow Star Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2011 Posts: 6731
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:58 am Post subject: |
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GoldenThroat wrote: | Nobody wrote: | I won't try to sugarcoat the percentages, because they suck. But this fixation on FG% like it is the only thing that matters is slowly getting to me.
1) the team starts 4 players that wouldn't start on other teams. The lone exception is Lin, although I don't think he has the head to be a starting PF. Hill has never started before in his career, so it's more of a perfect situation for him (a crappy roster with no big men).
2) Kobe is coming off two horrific injuries. He's had month-long cold stretches like this when he was in his prime. If it still looks like this in January then we have a problem.
3) Are the people who are saying "Give Wes and Ed Davis more shots, they have a higher percentage!" watching these games? Davis' role on offense can't be anything else than a garbage man, because he doesn't have the necessary skill level needed for something more. You can't just dump the ball to him and expect him to do anything of use with it. So it's either offensive rebounds and putbacks, lobs and pick and rolls for him. And don't get me started with Wes. I don't think I've seen him create more than 2 shots for him this season. If I get to choose between Kobe and Wes bricking, I'll take Kobe, thanks.
4) The thing that is really bad is our defense. Just watch the first few possessions of last night's game again. Simply inexcusable breakdowns. That's what happens when you have only one player that cares to play defense (Davis, maybe two in Wes when he isn't drifting away) on your team.
He could tone it down a bit, though. If not, let some other teammates miss shots. |
Did you watch the game tonight? They were actually quite functional on offense without Kobe shooting the ball very much. |
They were hitting their shots . In the previous games it wasn't always like this which forced Kobe to take more shots. For example, lin was very aggressive coming out of the gate. He looked like he had a plan, where if the other team gave him space he was shooting it. Other games lin wasn't shooting it even if they did give him space. If lin comes out aggressive like last games, Kobe doesn't have to take over early especially if other players are hitting their shots too. |
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Treble Clef Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Nov 2012 Posts: 23745
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:11 am Post subject: |
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Nobody wrote: | GoldenThroat wrote: | Nobody wrote: | I won't try to sugarcoat the percentages, because they suck. But this fixation on FG% like it is the only thing that matters is slowly getting to me.
1) the team starts 4 players that wouldn't start on other teams. The lone exception is Lin, although I don't think he has the head to be a starting PF. Hill has never started before in his career, so it's more of a perfect situation for him (a crappy roster with no big men).
2) Kobe is coming off two horrific injuries. He's had month-long cold stretches like this when he was in his prime. If it still looks like this in January then we have a problem.
3) Are the people who are saying "Give Wes and Ed Davis more shots, they have a higher percentage!" watching these games? Davis' role on offense can't be anything else than a garbage man, because he doesn't have the necessary skill level needed for something more. You can't just dump the ball to him and expect him to do anything of use with it. So it's either offensive rebounds and putbacks, lobs and pick and rolls for him. And don't get me started with Wes. I don't think I've seen him create more than 2 shots for him this season. If I get to choose between Kobe and Wes bricking, I'll take Kobe, thanks.
4) The thing that is really bad is our defense. Just watch the first few possessions of last night's game again. Simply inexcusable breakdowns. That's what happens when you have only one player that cares to play defense (Davis, maybe two in Wes when he isn't drifting away) on your team.
He could tone it down a bit, though. If not, let some other teammates miss shots. |
Did you watch the game tonight? They were actually quite functional on offense without Kobe shooting the ball very much. |
Watched it. How many times has that happened? Not to mention consistently? He should lower his FGA, I completely agree with that (it should read "should tone it down a bit" in my previous post), but Kobe not shooting the ball for entire halves is/was never a good thing... except in random stretches where the rest of the team hit the perfect storm. |
He doesn't need zero shot attempts, he just needs to play within the offense. If he is getting good shots or easy looks, he can shoot 100 times. The best thing about what he was doing was setting screens and acting like a decoy to weaken the defense. He was playing great without the ball and he wasn't forcing any difficult shots. Some people here say he shouldn't sacrifice his game for others but if he makes the defense respect the other 4 guys, he'll be able to get his own shots a lot easier. |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:46 am Post subject: |
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Rivershow wrote: | GoldenThroat wrote: | Nobody wrote: | I won't try to sugarcoat the percentages, because they suck. But this fixation on FG% like it is the only thing that matters is slowly getting to me.
1) the team starts 4 players that wouldn't start on other teams. The lone exception is Lin, although I don't think he has the head to be a starting PF. Hill has never started before in his career, so it's more of a perfect situation for him (a crappy roster with no big men).
2) Kobe is coming off two horrific injuries. He's had month-long cold stretches like this when he was in his prime. If it still looks like this in January then we have a problem.
3) Are the people who are saying "Give Wes and Ed Davis more shots, they have a higher percentage!" watching these games? Davis' role on offense can't be anything else than a garbage man, because he doesn't have the necessary skill level needed for something more. You can't just dump the ball to him and expect him to do anything of use with it. So it's either offensive rebounds and putbacks, lobs and pick and rolls for him. And don't get me started with Wes. I don't think I've seen him create more than 2 shots for him this season. If I get to choose between Kobe and Wes bricking, I'll take Kobe, thanks.
4) The thing that is really bad is our defense. Just watch the first few possessions of last night's game again. Simply inexcusable breakdowns. That's what happens when you have only one player that cares to play defense (Davis, maybe two in Wes when he isn't drifting away) on your team.
He could tone it down a bit, though. If not, let some other teammates miss shots. |
Did you watch the game tonight? They were actually quite functional on offense without Kobe shooting the ball very much. |
They were hitting their shots . In the previous games it wasn't always like this which forced Kobe to take more shots. For example, lin was very aggressive coming out of the gate. He looked like he had a plan, where if the other team gave him space he was shooting it. Other games lin wasn't shooting it even if they did give him space. If lin comes out aggressive like last games, Kobe doesn't have to take over early especially if other players are hitting their shots too. |
Forced? As in, Kobe doesn't like taking shots, and so somehow he had to do something he wasn't planning on doing? Cmon, no one is going to buy that. We all know Kobe loves to shoot.
Here's the thing. When you come in with the approach of, if you can't do it, then I will, then that's just not being a very good leader, and it shows distrust. Is that how you'd like your co-worker to behave with you?
On top of that, if you're going to take that approach, then you better hit your damn shots. You can't say "if you can't do it, then I will" and then not do it. That just makes you look like a selfish fool. Can you imagine if a co-worker just took over a project of yours and then did a worse job of it?
The reality is, when you play a team game there are always at the very least, one or two guys who are making their shots. Work with them. And work to get those who aren't making their shots some confidence via an easy bucket or even just a discussion on something they could try.
Kobe was great in the first half last night. When he's playing right, he could shoot poorly and it won't be as noticeable. I certainly didn't feel he had a 25% FG type of night at the end of the first half but that's exactly what he had. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:47 am Post subject: |
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I love the "Kobe can only go 100% in one direction" arguments. He can only take 35 shots a game or 0. How about a happy medium and within the flow of a game? Kobe is one of the smartest players ever. No need to reduce his game to such binary extremes. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Laker_Town Retired Number
Joined: 26 Jun 2006 Posts: 25604
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:07 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | I love the "Kobe can only go 100% in one direction" arguments. He can only take 35 shots a game or 0. How about a happy medium and within the flow of a game? Kobe is one of the smartest players ever. No need to reduce his game to such binary extremes. |
This is what we all want. We want him to find that balance. |
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Discoflux Star Player
Joined: 11 Mar 2008 Posts: 3344 Location: W. Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:17 am Post subject: Stupid thread don't read |
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Good game against the Grizz last night. Hard fought game with Lakers looking like they can get the win.
One minute to play, lakers need a three ball, kick it up to Kobe wide open for a three... AIRBALL!
It was the perfect complement to the the two times he got stripped dribbling into traffic on the previous two plays then whined to the refs. |
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greenfrog Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:24 am Post subject: |
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madddogg wrote: | GoldenThroat wrote: | Nobody wrote: | I won't try to sugarcoat the percentages, because they suck. But this fixation on FG% like it is the only thing that matters is slowly getting to me.
1) the team starts 4 players that wouldn't start on other teams. The lone exception is Lin, although I don't think he has the head to be a starting PF. Hill has never started before in his career, so it's more of a perfect situation for him (a crappy roster with no big men).
2) Kobe is coming off two horrific injuries. He's had month-long cold stretches like this when he was in his prime. If it still looks like this in January then we have a problem.
3) Are the people who are saying "Give Wes and Ed Davis more shots, they have a higher percentage!" watching these games? Davis' role on offense can't be anything else than a garbage man, because he doesn't have the necessary skill level needed for something more. You can't just dump the ball to him and expect him to do anything of use with it. So it's either offensive rebounds and putbacks, lobs and pick and rolls for him. And don't get me started with Wes. I don't think I've seen him create more than 2 shots for him this season. If I get to choose between Kobe and Wes bricking, I'll take Kobe, thanks.
4) The thing that is really bad is our defense. Just watch the first few possessions of last night's game again. Simply inexcusable breakdowns. That's what happens when you have only one player that cares to play defense (Davis, maybe two in Wes when he isn't drifting away) on your team.
He could tone it down a bit, though. If not, let some other teammates miss shots. |
Did you watch the game tonight? They were actually quite functional on offense without Kobe shooting the ball very much. |
totally agree. kobe zero points midway through 2nd and lakers up by 8-9. |
It wasn't just the shooting. He barely touched the ball at all during that stretch. I think after the first quarter all he had was a rebound.
For the rest of the game I was actually pretty impressed with him. I'm not sure I've ever seen him actively play off the ball and set screens at that frequency before. The shooting and ball handling still were not good, but I consider it a first step.
Last edited by greenfrog on Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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kikanga Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29152 Location: La La Land
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:48 am Post subject: |
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Another Kobe P&M Thread. Just what LG needs! _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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Rivershow Star Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2011 Posts: 6731
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:04 am Post subject: |
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ringfinger wrote: | Rivershow wrote: | GoldenThroat wrote: | Nobody wrote: | I won't try to sugarcoat the percentages, because they suck. But this fixation on FG% like it is the only thing that matters is slowly getting to me.
1) the team starts 4 players that wouldn't start on other teams. The lone exception is Lin, although I don't think he has the head to be a starting PF. Hill has never started before in his career, so it's more of a perfect situation for him (a crappy roster with no big men).
2) Kobe is coming off two horrific injuries. He's had month-long cold stretches like this when he was in his prime. If it still looks like this in January then we have a problem.
3) Are the people who are saying "Give Wes and Ed Davis more shots, they have a higher percentage!" watching these games? Davis' role on offense can't be anything else than a garbage man, because he doesn't have the necessary skill level needed for something more. You can't just dump the ball to him and expect him to do anything of use with it. So it's either offensive rebounds and putbacks, lobs and pick and rolls for him. And don't get me started with Wes. I don't think I've seen him create more than 2 shots for him this season. If I get to choose between Kobe and Wes bricking, I'll take Kobe, thanks.
4) The thing that is really bad is our defense. Just watch the first few possessions of last night's game again. Simply inexcusable breakdowns. That's what happens when you have only one player that cares to play defense (Davis, maybe two in Wes when he isn't drifting away) on your team.
He could tone it down a bit, though. If not, let some other teammates miss shots. |
Did you watch the game tonight? They were actually quite functional on offense without Kobe shooting the ball very much. |
They were hitting their shots . In the previous games it wasn't always like this which forced Kobe to take more shots. For example, lin was very aggressive coming out of the gate. He looked like he had a plan, where if the other team gave him space he was shooting it. Other games lin wasn't shooting it even if they did give him space. If lin comes out aggressive like last games, Kobe doesn't have to take over early especially if other players are hitting their shots too. |
Forced? As in, Kobe doesn't like taking shots, and so somehow he had to do something he wasn't planning on doing? Cmon, no one is going to buy that. We all know Kobe loves to shoot.
Here's the thing. When you come in with the approach of, if you can't do it, then I will, then that's just not being a very good leader, and it shows distrust. Is that how you'd like your co-worker to behave with you?
On top of that, if you're going to take that approach, then you better hit your damn shots. You can't say "if you can't do it, then I will" and then not do it. That just makes you look like a selfish fool. Can you imagine if a co-worker just took over a project of yours and then did a worse job of it?
The reality is, when you play a team game there are always at the very least, one or two guys who are making their shots. Work with them. And work to get those who aren't making their shots some confidence via an easy bucket or even just a discussion on something they could try.
Kobe was great in the first half last night. When he's playing right, he could shoot poorly and it won't be as noticeable. I certainly didn't feel he had a 25% FG type of night at the end of the first half but that's exactly what he had. |
Forced as in since the offense isn't working, Kobe has to take more of the offensive load. Timid Lin makes Kobe take more shots because someone has to. The rest of the team not hitting their shots makes Kobe take more because someone has to, to put points on the board. That's reality. The team would of seen more offhand approach by Kobe if Lin is aggressive like he was yesterday. Lin has only played aggressively like yesterday about 6-7 games. If
jLin isn't aggressive Kobe will gladly take over. |
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GoldenThroat Moderator
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 37474
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:27 am Post subject: |
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Rivershow wrote: | GoldenThroat wrote: | Nobody wrote: | I won't try to sugarcoat the percentages, because they suck. But this fixation on FG% like it is the only thing that matters is slowly getting to me.
1) the team starts 4 players that wouldn't start on other teams. The lone exception is Lin, although I don't think he has the head to be a starting PF. Hill has never started before in his career, so it's more of a perfect situation for him (a crappy roster with no big men).
2) Kobe is coming off two horrific injuries. He's had month-long cold stretches like this when he was in his prime. If it still looks like this in January then we have a problem.
3) Are the people who are saying "Give Wes and Ed Davis more shots, they have a higher percentage!" watching these games? Davis' role on offense can't be anything else than a garbage man, because he doesn't have the necessary skill level needed for something more. You can't just dump the ball to him and expect him to do anything of use with it. So it's either offensive rebounds and putbacks, lobs and pick and rolls for him. And don't get me started with Wes. I don't think I've seen him create more than 2 shots for him this season. If I get to choose between Kobe and Wes bricking, I'll take Kobe, thanks.
4) The thing that is really bad is our defense. Just watch the first few possessions of last night's game again. Simply inexcusable breakdowns. That's what happens when you have only one player that cares to play defense (Davis, maybe two in Wes when he isn't drifting away) on your team.
He could tone it down a bit, though. If not, let some other teammates miss shots. |
Did you watch the game tonight? They were actually quite functional on offense without Kobe shooting the ball very much. |
They were hitting their shots . In the previous games it wasn't always like this which forced Kobe to take more shots. For example, lin was very aggressive coming out of the gate. He looked like he had a plan, where if the other team gave him space he was shooting it. Other games lin wasn't shooting it even if they did give him space. If lin comes out aggressive like last games, Kobe doesn't have to take over early especially if other players are hitting their shots too. |
It's not a matter of other guys "hitting their shots". There are plenty of times where Kobe has 8-10 shot attempts in the 1st Quarter, many of which aren't in the flow of the offense, and other guys are barely getting any shots to hit.
Really, this is the stock answer when the Lakers play well while Kobe doesn't shoot much. As though Kobe only decides to shoot excessively once others have shown that they aren't aggressive or aren't making their shots. That isn't the case at all. Frequently, he does it right out of the gates. |
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pio2u Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012 Posts: 54520
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:28 am Post subject: |
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Voices Star Player
Joined: 07 Jul 2006 Posts: 8287 Location: Oxnard, Ca.
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:33 am Post subject: |
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Ok I won't read it _________________ .....
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ALTHOUGH HE STANDS 6 FEET 2 INCHES, JIM BUSS ATTENDED JOCKEY SCHOOL WHEN HE WAS 20. |
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Rivershow Star Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2011 Posts: 6731
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:50 am Post subject: |
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GoldenThroat wrote: | Rivershow wrote: | GoldenThroat wrote: | Nobody wrote: | I won't try to sugarcoat the percentages, because they suck. But this fixation on FG% like it is the only thing that matters is slowly getting to me.
1) the team starts 4 players that wouldn't start on other teams. The lone exception is Lin, although I don't think he has the head to be a starting PF. Hill has never started before in his career, so it's more of a perfect situation for him (a crappy roster with no big men).
2) Kobe is coming off two horrific injuries. He's had month-long cold stretches like this when he was in his prime. If it still looks like this in January then we have a problem.
3) Are the people who are saying "Give Wes and Ed Davis more shots, they have a higher percentage!" watching these games? Davis' role on offense can't be anything else than a garbage man, because he doesn't have the necessary skill level needed for something more. You can't just dump the ball to him and expect him to do anything of use with it. So it's either offensive rebounds and putbacks, lobs and pick and rolls for him. And don't get me started with Wes. I don't think I've seen him create more than 2 shots for him this season. If I get to choose between Kobe and Wes bricking, I'll take Kobe, thanks.
4) The thing that is really bad is our defense. Just watch the first few possessions of last night's game again. Simply inexcusable breakdowns. That's what happens when you have only one player that cares to play defense (Davis, maybe two in Wes when he isn't drifting away) on your team.
He could tone it down a bit, though. If not, let some other teammates miss shots. |
Did you watch the game tonight? They were actually quite functional on offense without Kobe shooting the ball very much. |
They were hitting their shots . In the previous games it wasn't always like this which forced Kobe to take more shots. For example, lin was very aggressive coming out of the gate. He looked like he had a plan, where if the other team gave him space he was shooting it. Other games lin wasn't shooting it even if they did give him space. If lin comes out aggressive like last games, Kobe doesn't have to take over early especially if other players are hitting their shots too. |
It's not a matter of other guys "hitting their shots". There are plenty of times where Kobe has 8-10 shot attempts in the 1st Quarter, many of which aren't in the flow of the offense, and other guys are barely getting any shots to hit.
Really, this is the stock answer when the Lakers play well while Kobe doesn't shoot much. As though Kobe only decides to shoot excessively once others have shown that they aren't aggressive or aren't making their shots. That isn't the case at all. Frequently, he does it right out of the gates. |
There were a couple of games where Kobe took 8-10 shots in the first quarter and it was in the flow of the offense but there were others that there weren't. I don't think there is a one size fits all complaint to Kobe's shooting. |
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Voices Star Player
Joined: 07 Jul 2006 Posts: 8287 Location: Oxnard, Ca.
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:54 am Post subject: |
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We all know Kobe is a gunner always has been, hopefully he gets strong enough to be able to get the lift needed to shoot a decent percentage. I agree with some that he is playing to many min. At 36 he needs to pace his gunning by playing off the ball, will he ever realize that he is not the same player at 36 as he was at 32 and pace his play, I doubt it, he is just a once super great player that is trying to be the same gunner he once was. It's hard to teach a old dog new tricks. I hope Kobe finds a way to make this team better. _________________ .....
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ALTHOUGH HE STANDS 6 FEET 2 INCHES, JIM BUSS ATTENDED JOCKEY SCHOOL WHEN HE WAS 20. |
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greenfrog Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:00 am Post subject: |
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Voices wrote: | We all know Kobe is a gunner always has been, hopefully he gets strong enough to be able to get the lift needed to shoot a decent percentage. I agree with some that he is playing to many min. At 36 he needs to pace his gunning by playing off the ball, will he ever realize that he is not the same player at 36 as he was at 32 and pace his play, I doubt it, he is just a once super great player that is trying to be the same gunner he once was. It's hard to teach a old dog new tricks. I hope Kobe finds a way to make this team better. |
He finally came out before the first quarter ended! Baby steps. |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:29 am Post subject: |
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Rivershow wrote: | GoldenThroat wrote: | Rivershow wrote: | GoldenThroat wrote: | Nobody wrote: | I won't try to sugarcoat the percentages, because they suck. But this fixation on FG% like it is the only thing that matters is slowly getting to me.
1) the team starts 4 players that wouldn't start on other teams. The lone exception is Lin, although I don't think he has the head to be a starting PF. Hill has never started before in his career, so it's more of a perfect situation for him (a crappy roster with no big men).
2) Kobe is coming off two horrific injuries. He's had month-long cold stretches like this when he was in his prime. If it still looks like this in January then we have a problem.
3) Are the people who are saying "Give Wes and Ed Davis more shots, they have a higher percentage!" watching these games? Davis' role on offense can't be anything else than a garbage man, because he doesn't have the necessary skill level needed for something more. You can't just dump the ball to him and expect him to do anything of use with it. So it's either offensive rebounds and putbacks, lobs and pick and rolls for him. And don't get me started with Wes. I don't think I've seen him create more than 2 shots for him this season. If I get to choose between Kobe and Wes bricking, I'll take Kobe, thanks.
4) The thing that is really bad is our defense. Just watch the first few possessions of last night's game again. Simply inexcusable breakdowns. That's what happens when you have only one player that cares to play defense (Davis, maybe two in Wes when he isn't drifting away) on your team.
He could tone it down a bit, though. If not, let some other teammates miss shots. |
Did you watch the game tonight? They were actually quite functional on offense without Kobe shooting the ball very much. |
They were hitting their shots . In the previous games it wasn't always like this which forced Kobe to take more shots. For example, lin was very aggressive coming out of the gate. He looked like he had a plan, where if the other team gave him space he was shooting it. Other games lin wasn't shooting it even if they did give him space. If lin comes out aggressive like last games, Kobe doesn't have to take over early especially if other players are hitting their shots too. |
It's not a matter of other guys "hitting their shots". There are plenty of times where Kobe has 8-10 shot attempts in the 1st Quarter, many of which aren't in the flow of the offense, and other guys are barely getting any shots to hit.
Really, this is the stock answer when the Lakers play well while Kobe doesn't shoot much. As though Kobe only decides to shoot excessively once others have shown that they aren't aggressive or aren't making their shots. That isn't the case at all. Frequently, he does it right out of the gates. |
There were a couple of games where Kobe took 8-10 shots in the first quarter and it was in the flow of the offense but there were others that there weren't. I don't think there is a one size fits all complaint to Kobe's shooting. |
Which games were those??? |
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Lakers95 Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Dec 2011 Posts: 20880 Location: Southern California
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:44 am Post subject: |
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Stupid thread indeed |
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pio2u Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012 Posts: 54520
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:44 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | Kobe Bryant now stands 196 points away from third place on the all-time scoring list. |
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Rivershow Star Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2011 Posts: 6731
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:45 am Post subject: |
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ringfinger wrote: | Rivershow wrote: | GoldenThroat wrote: | Rivershow wrote: | GoldenThroat wrote: | Nobody wrote: | I won't try to sugarcoat the percentages, because they suck. But this fixation on FG% like it is the only thing that matters is slowly getting to me.
1) the team starts 4 players that wouldn't start on other teams. The lone exception is Lin, although I don't think he has the head to be a starting PF. Hill has never started before in his career, so it's more of a perfect situation for him (a crappy roster with no big men).
2) Kobe is coming off two horrific injuries. He's had month-long cold stretches like this when he was in his prime. If it still looks like this in January then we have a problem.
3) Are the people who are saying "Give Wes and Ed Davis more shots, they have a higher percentage!" watching these games? Davis' role on offense can't be anything else than a garbage man, because he doesn't have the necessary skill level needed for something more. You can't just dump the ball to him and expect him to do anything of use with it. So it's either offensive rebounds and putbacks, lobs and pick and rolls for him. And don't get me started with Wes. I don't think I've seen him create more than 2 shots for him this season. If I get to choose between Kobe and Wes bricking, I'll take Kobe, thanks.
4) The thing that is really bad is our defense. Just watch the first few possessions of last night's game again. Simply inexcusable breakdowns. That's what happens when you have only one player that cares to play defense (Davis, maybe two in Wes when he isn't drifting away) on your team.
He could tone it down a bit, though. If not, let some other teammates miss shots. |
Did you watch the game tonight? They were actually quite functional on offense without Kobe shooting the ball very much. |
They were hitting their shots . In the previous games it wasn't always like this which forced Kobe to take more shots. For example, lin was very aggressive coming out of the gate. He looked like he had a plan, where if the other team gave him space he was shooting it. Other games lin wasn't shooting it even if they did give him space. If lin comes out aggressive like last games, Kobe doesn't have to take over early especially if other players are hitting their shots too. |
It's not a matter of other guys "hitting their shots". There are plenty of times where Kobe has 8-10 shot attempts in the 1st Quarter, many of which aren't in the flow of the offense, and other guys are barely getting any shots to hit.
Really, this is the stock answer when the Lakers play well while Kobe doesn't shoot much. As though Kobe only decides to shoot excessively once others have shown that they aren't aggressive or aren't making their shots. That isn't the case at all. Frequently, he does it right out of the gates. |
There were a couple of games where Kobe took 8-10 shots in the first quarter and it was in the flow of the offense but there were others that there weren't. I don't think there is a one size fits all complaint to Kobe's shooting. |
Which games were those??? |
The golden state game for one. Lin was timid and Kobe found himself with the ball a lot while the rest of the team was missing shots. It ended up being Kobe was something like 7-13 and the rest of the team was 2-13. I didn't feel Kobe was forcing shots much. |
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Cancun Van Exel Starting Rotation
Joined: 15 Oct 2014 Posts: 203
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:45 am Post subject: |
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i read it OP tricked me. _________________ Championships since NBA/ABA merger in '76: Lakers 10 - Celtics 5 - Clippers 0 --- Phil Jackson 10 - Doc Rivers 1 |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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Rivershow wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | Which games were those??? |
The golden state game for one. Lin was timid and Kobe found himself with the ball a lot while the rest of the team was missing shots. It ended up being Kobe was something like 7-13 and the rest of the team was 2-13. I didn't feel Kobe was forcing shots much. |
Found himself with the ball a lot? Hahaha. Look, hey, a ball! Haha.
He was absolutely forcing shots, as he normally does when others are cold. The good news was, he was making them. Of his 7 makes, 6 were unassisted. Just because he made them doesn't mean they came out of the flow of an offense. (And, just because they came out of the flow of an offense doesn't mean I won't take em!) |
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Voices Star Player
Joined: 07 Jul 2006 Posts: 8287 Location: Oxnard, Ca.
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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greenfrog wrote: | Voices wrote: | We all know Kobe is a gunner always has been, hopefully he gets strong enough to be able to get the lift needed to shoot a decent percentage. I agree with some that he is playing to many min. At 36 he needs to pace his gunning by playing off the ball, will he ever realize that he is not the same player at 36 as he was at 32 and pace his play, I doubt it, he is just a once super great player that is trying to be the same gunner he once was. It's hard to teach a old dog new tricks. I hope Kobe finds a way to make this team better. |
He finally came out before the first quarter ended! Baby steps. |
To make this team respectable, Baby steps will help Kobe and the team. We all know this team is not going to compete for a playoff spot, but competing is what we all want from Lakers players. Asking more from this team is a reach, just play with heart and Laker soul.
It's not the size of the dog, it's the size of the fight in the dog. _________________ .....
.....
ALTHOUGH HE STANDS 6 FEET 2 INCHES, JIM BUSS ATTENDED JOCKEY SCHOOL WHEN HE WAS 20. |
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