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KBH Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Sep 2008 Posts: 12171
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Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:24 am Post subject: |
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GoldenThroat wrote: | KBH wrote: | GoldenThroat wrote: | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | Regardless of what you think, 25/5/5 will be an amazing accomplishment for Kobe given the circumstances. You see empty stats, fine, others see it differently. Just because you see it differently doesn't make it so. |
"Empty stats" is a term used by fans on message boards to diminish the accomplishments of a player who posts good stats on a losing team. Most players, coaches, and GMs would give someone a weird look if they called a player's stats "empty." Just the same, there have been a lot of people on this board who have dismissed the stats of other players as empty. The shoe is on the other foot now. |
Not too many basketball people would even be having arguments centered around PPG/RPG/APG in the first place. Not in 2014, anyway. Those stats are far more of a function of opportunity than anything. Tony Wroten didn't suddenly become an elite player because he's averaging 20/6/4.
It's actually these PPG/RPG/APG arguments that are the domain of fans on message boards. |
And that's exactly what I meant when I used the term "empty stats" but some simply like to be argumentative. Kobe is accumulating these raw numbers not because he's compromising defenses as the focal point of an offense. He's accumulating raw numbers by playing a lot of minutes and putting up a lot of shots. This is hardly the same as when people foolishly call a guy like Kevin Love an "empty stats" guy when he was in Minnesota. |
I'm one of those fools. |
Haha, well, we'll have to agree to disagree when it comes to K-Love. |
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KBH Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Sep 2008 Posts: 12171
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Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:58 am Post subject: |
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | KBH wrote: | I agree with those saying Kobe's play and energy level seems to be trending downward right now. This is exactly the situation Kobe did not need if he was going to have an effective season. No offensive philosophy in place, injuries up and down the roster, no defense, and teams defending him single-coverage to allow him to put up 25 points on 25 shots because they know Kobe can't beat your team by himself anymore. Meanwhile, we've have threads like this and another celebrating Kobe putting up empty stat (25/5/5!) through chucking on a bad team. It's the perfect storm for one the greatest tire fires I've witnessed as a fan of the team and my favorite all-time player.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not mad at Kobe at all. Given the circumstances, all I can do is accept what's going on, but it's painful to watch. Especially hearing the resignation and admission of mortality in his post-game quotes. Kobe, for all his faults, has always been an optimist when it comes to his play and his team's chances because he had such confidence in his ability. For the first time, I heard doubt from Kobe. And it sure was strange. I'm not sure if Kobe can mentally or physically make it through this season, and I'm not sure if he thinks he can either. |
Regardless of what you think, 25/5/5 will be an amazing accomplishment for Kobe given the circumstances. You see empty stats, fine, others see it differently. Just because you see it differently doesn't make it so.
I am not worried by the downward trend in Kobe's stats as much as I am about his statements after the SA game. Maybe it's because I've not seen any of the games and only look at the highlight reels, but I still see the Kobe of old and that's what I wanted to see this season because I knew we had nothing to offer in the way of entertainment and of course because Kobe is my favorite athlete of all time to watch.
I've always said that if Kobe isn't elite, i.e. top 10 player, I'd just as soon as see him retire. I expect him to finish the season at 27/5/5 and 43% shooting and that will make him top 10 player IMO. But it is discouraging to see him, for the first time ever, verbally display doubt. It'll be interesting to see how he recovers from this. And how he looks moving forward. |
There are certainly moments when Kobe looks like the old Kobe. The things I've noticed is that he can't really get easy buckets anymore and isn't finishing at the rim as much. When he does look like himself it's when he's got his jumper going, but those hot streaks, which sometimes used to last for whole quarters, halves and games, don't last as long anymore. Partly because he's not getting as many easy shots in the lane to keep the rhythm going, partly because his stamina doesn't appear to be the same, which isn't helped by the fact that he has to work way too hard for his points. I place some of the blame on Scott for not putting together a game plan to get his best player easy shots. Where are the post ups? Why is our spacing so awful that things are congested in the lane and every time Kobe gets the ball, he's by the three-point line? Why aren't you getting Kobe moving off the ball to set him up for open, easy catch and shoot opportunities? Things like this would make Kobe's life easier and as a result, life easier for everyone else. |
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governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24996
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Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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KBH wrote: | KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | KBH wrote: | I agree with those saying Kobe's play and energy level seems to be trending downward right now. This is exactly the situation Kobe did not need if he was going to have an effective season. No offensive philosophy in place, injuries up and down the roster, no defense, and teams defending him single-coverage to allow him to put up 25 points on 25 shots because they know Kobe can't beat your team by himself anymore. Meanwhile, we've have threads like this and another celebrating Kobe putting up empty stat (25/5/5!) through chucking on a bad team. It's the perfect storm for one the greatest tire fires I've witnessed as a fan of the team and my favorite all-time player.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not mad at Kobe at all. Given the circumstances, all I can do is accept what's going on, but it's painful to watch. Especially hearing the resignation and admission of mortality in his post-game quotes. Kobe, for all his faults, has always been an optimist when it comes to his play and his team's chances because he had such confidence in his ability. For the first time, I heard doubt from Kobe. And it sure was strange. I'm not sure if Kobe can mentally or physically make it through this season, and I'm not sure if he thinks he can either. |
Regardless of what you think, 25/5/5 will be an amazing accomplishment for Kobe given the circumstances. You see empty stats, fine, others see it differently. Just because you see it differently doesn't make it so.
I am not worried by the downward trend in Kobe's stats as much as I am about his statements after the SA game. Maybe it's because I've not seen any of the games and only look at the highlight reels, but I still see the Kobe of old and that's what I wanted to see this season because I knew we had nothing to offer in the way of entertainment and of course because Kobe is my favorite athlete of all time to watch.
I've always said that if Kobe isn't elite, i.e. top 10 player, I'd just as soon as see him retire. I expect him to finish the season at 27/5/5 and 43% shooting and that will make him top 10 player IMO. But it is discouraging to see him, for the first time ever, verbally display doubt. It'll be interesting to see how he recovers from this. And how he looks moving forward. |
There are certainly moments when Kobe looks like the old Kobe. The things I've noticed is that he can't really get easy buckets anymore and isn't finishing at the rim as much. When he does look like himself it's when he's got his jumper going, but those hot streaks, which sometimes used to last for whole quarters, halves and games, don't last as long anymore. Partly because he's not getting as many easy shots in the lane to keep the rhythm going, partly because his stamina doesn't appear to be the same, which isn't helped by the fact that he has to work way too hard for his points. I place some of the blame on Scott for not putting together a game plan to get his best player easy shots. Where are the post ups? Why is our spacing so awful that things are congested in the lane and every time Kobe gets the ball, he's by the three-point line? Why aren't you getting Kobe moving off the ball to set him up for open, easy catch and shoot opportunities? Things like this would make Kobe's life easier and as a result, life easier for everyone else. |
It's the coach's job to get the offensive sets (spacing, post ups, weak side picks, spot up 3pt shooters)... completely agree that so far, no offensive identity from this Lakers, poor spacing, few post ups, limited drive ability...
27/5/5 on 43% = MVP discussion (maybe not due to team record) |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think players on a possibly bottom 5 team get MVP considerations historically speaking. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24996
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Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | I don't think players on a possibly bottom 5 team get MVP considerations historically speaking. |
Very true
I do hope Kobe could get 27/5/5 on 43% this season |
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lakersken80 Retired Number
Joined: 12 Aug 2009 Posts: 38751
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Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | I don't think players on a possibly bottom 5 team get MVP considerations historically speaking. |
Yeah, considering Kobe was basically unstoppable during the mid 2000's, but was beat out for the MVP considering they were a lower tier western conference team, I don't even think Kobe will get a consideration if they are one of the league's worst teams. |
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GoldenThroat Moderator
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 37474
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Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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IDGAF anymore. Get 'em, Kobe. |
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lakersken80 Retired Number
Joined: 12 Aug 2009 Posts: 38751
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Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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Dude's gonna win the scoring title....
Really the only thing to look forward to other than tanking.... |
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Hard_Butter Franchise Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2012 Posts: 12223 Location: The Two One Three
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Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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GoldenThroat wrote: | IDGAF anymore. Get 'em, Kobe. |
....is the motto for the rest of the season. _________________ The butter's hard and the eggs are chillin' in the dark.
Kiss my Converse. |
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GoldenThroat Moderator
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 37474
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Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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EchoZulu wrote: | GoldenThroat wrote: | IDGAF anymore. Get 'em, Kobe. |
....is the motto for the rest of the season. |
Tonight was one of the very, very few Laker games that I miss. Forgot to set the DVR. Got home, opened up the box score, and then , then , then .
But the best part was seeing Kobe's line. 34 shots & 16 FTAs in 31 minutes. That's just (bleep) awesome. I don't say that with any degree of sarcasm. That is (bleep) awesome. That's as close to two middle fingers in the air as it gets. I'll complain about wanting us to play as efficiently as possible, but with this roster, combined with these offensive & defensive schemes, it's two tears in a bucket. |
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Hard_Butter Franchise Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2012 Posts: 12223 Location: The Two One Three
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Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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GoldenThroat wrote: | EchoZulu wrote: | GoldenThroat wrote: | IDGAF anymore. Get 'em, Kobe. |
....is the motto for the rest of the season. |
Tonight was one of the very, very few Laker games that I miss. Forgot to set the DVR. Got home, opened up the box score, and then , then , then .
But the best part was seeing Kobe's line. 34 shots & 16 FTAs in 31 minutes. That's just (bleep) awesome. I don't say that with any degree of sarcasm. That is (bleep) awesome. That's as close to two middle fingers in the air as it gets. I'll complain about wanting us to play as efficiently as possible, but with this roster, combined with these offensive & defensive schemes, it's two tears in a bucket. |
Better to laugh than cry, brotha.
Any other season would've been a cause for concern in terms of Kobe's shots. But at this point, with this roster, what other alternative is there? None. And Kobe knows that. The blame lays squarely on the FO's shoulders for constructing this crap roster. IDGAF is right. Kobe adheres to it. Fans are succumbing to it. The best course of action is to keep our pick, draft a big man, and throw the max at Jackson. This is my only solace. _________________ The butter's hard and the eggs are chillin' in the dark.
Kiss my Converse. |
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defense Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jan 2010 Posts: 39322
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Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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I want to see empty seats in Staples so the front office sees that we wont pay for this BS |
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golaker Star Player
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 Posts: 2557
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Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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GoldenThroat wrote: | EchoZulu wrote: | GoldenThroat wrote: | IDGAF anymore. Get 'em, Kobe. |
....is the motto for the rest of the season. |
Tonight was one of the very, very few Laker games that I miss. Forgot to set the DVR. Got home, opened up the box score, and then , then , then .
But the best part was seeing Kobe's line. 34 shots & 16 FTAs in 31 minutes. That's just (bleep) awesome. I don't say that with any degree of sarcasm. That is (bleep) awesome. That's as close to two middle fingers in the air as it gets. I'll complain about wanting us to play as efficiently as possible, but with this roster, combined with these offensive & defensive schemes, it's two tears in a bucket. |
Yup. They had klay trying to shut kobe down, and kobe was just flat out GIVING it to klay. Awesome indeed. Master still teaching the student. _________________ Maybe you think it's completely innocent. Maybe you don't. But there's no denying that what the rule book says means a lot less than what the NBA wants at any given moment. -Tim Donaghy |
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FreakofNature Star Player
Joined: 28 Sep 2007 Posts: 9187 Location: Maui ...
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Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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governator wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | I don't think players on a possibly bottom 5 team get MVP considerations historically speaking. |
Very true
I do hope Kobe could get 27/5/5 on 43% this season |
27 points ....Probably. But Durant will still get in enough games to be eligible for the title....
MVP? NO way, not on this bottom 3 team. But a real good slap to the face of the "naysayers" with a 2nd place in the scoring run, and a 2nd team all NBA I can see....
5 boards....should be...
5 assists? In most seasons without doubt, but this season I think he will be at 4.5 when all is said and done.
Shooting %? I was predicting 43% too. He will settle in and get there.
I would hope Kobe will still be around at 39 for one legit run at a ring and Kareems scoring record. I hope he will take le$$ $$$.... Be able to help our new top 3 pick who will be entering his third season by then along with randle and a top tier FA we get by then....
Last edited by FreakofNature on Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24996
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Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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FreakofNature wrote: | governator wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | I don't think players on a possibly bottom 5 team get MVP considerations historically speaking. |
Very true
I do hope Kobe could get 27/5/5 on 43% this season |
27 points ....Probably.
5 boards....should be...
5 assists? In most seasons without doubt, but this season I think he will be at 4.5 when all is said and done.
Shooting %? I was predicting 43% too. He will settle in and get there.
I would hope Kobe will still be around at 39 for one legit run at a ring and Kareems scoring record. I hope he will take le$$ $$$.... Be able to help our new top 3 pick who will be entering his third season by then along with randle and a top tier FA we get by then.... |
A 39 yr old Kobe taking the minimum would be flank by 2 top 10 first Rd picks and 2 max/near max FAs... If only... |
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FreakofNature Star Player
Joined: 28 Sep 2007 Posts: 9187 Location: Maui ...
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Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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governator wrote: | FreakofNature wrote: | governator wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | I don't think players on a possibly bottom 5 team get MVP considerations historically speaking. |
Very true
I do hope Kobe could get 27/5/5 on 43% this season |
27 points ....Probably.
5 boards....should be...
5 assists? In most seasons without doubt, but this season I think he will be at 4.5 when all is said and done.
Shooting %? I was predicting 43% too. He will settle in and get there.
I would hope Kobe will still be around at 39 for one legit run at a ring and Kareems scoring record. I hope he will take le$$ $$$.... Be able to help our new top 3 pick who will be entering his third season by then along with randle and a top tier FA we get by then.... |
A 39 yr old Kobe taking the minimum would be flank by 2 top 10 first Rd picks and 2 max/near max FAs... If only... |
Or even 1 max player, 1 near max, with Kobe taking 5 million. Plus the top 3 pick and randle. It is possible and my hope? At least hope will burn eternal, well until then at least. |
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Rugbar Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Nov 2014 Posts: 203
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Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:10 am Post subject: |
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GoldenThroat wrote: | EchoZulu wrote: | GoldenThroat wrote: | IDGAF anymore. Get 'em, Kobe. |
....is the motto for the rest of the season. |
Tonight was one of the very, very few Laker games that I miss. Forgot to set the DVR. Got home, opened up the box score, and then , then , then .
But the best part was seeing Kobe's line. 34 shots & 16 FTAs in 31 minutes. That's just (bleep) awesome. I don't say that with any degree of sarcasm. That is (bleep) awesome. That's as close to two middle fingers in the air as it gets. I'll complain about wanting us to play as efficiently as possible, but with this roster, combined with these offensive & defensive schemes, it's two tears in a bucket. |
I am sincerely happy that you can laugh more than cry. James worthy and I need to learn from you. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:16 am Post subject: |
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This season has already jumped the shark. At this point I frankly could care less about whatever statline Kobe puts up from an efficiency standpoint. I'm with you GT. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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GoldenThroat Moderator
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 37474
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Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:17 am Post subject: |
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Rugbar wrote: | GoldenThroat wrote: | EchoZulu wrote: | GoldenThroat wrote: | IDGAF anymore. Get 'em, Kobe. |
....is the motto for the rest of the season. |
Tonight was one of the very, very few Laker games that I miss. Forgot to set the DVR. Got home, opened up the box score, and then , then , then .
But the best part was seeing Kobe's line. 34 shots & 16 FTAs in 31 minutes. That's just (bleep) awesome. I don't say that with any degree of sarcasm. That is (bleep) awesome. That's as close to two middle fingers in the air as it gets. I'll complain about wanting us to play as efficiently as possible, but with this roster, combined with these offensive & defensive schemes, it's two tears in a bucket. |
I am sincerely happy that you can laugh more than cry. James worthy and I need to learn from you. |
If it makes you feel better, it's a strait-jackety kind of laughter. |
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LakersMDGurl Franchise Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 18015
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Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:36 am Post subject: |
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Ya'll kidding yourselves right? Kobe is not getting in no MVP discussion with his team 1-9. _________________ New Beginings |
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greenfrog Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:43 am Post subject: |
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LakersMDGurl wrote: | Ya'll kidding yourselves right? Kobe is not getting in no MVP discussion with his team 1-9. |
He's 53rd in PER behind Shabazz Muhammad and Ed Davis. Maybe on Earth 2 that's MVP worthy... |
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Rugbar Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Nov 2014 Posts: 203
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Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:51 am Post subject: |
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greenfrog wrote: | LakersMDGurl wrote: | Ya'll kidding yourselves right? Kobe is not getting in no MVP discussion with his team 1-9. |
He's 53rd in PER behind Shabazz Muhammad and Ed Davis. Maybe on Earth 2 that's MVP worthy... |
...and his ws/48 (a compound stat that doesn't reward chucking at a low percentage) is .007. (The league average is .100 and Kobe is .181 for his career.) MVP? Please don't make me laugh. Maybe GWTPS (Greatest Waste of Talent to Pad Stats). |
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lakers0505 Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 10701
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Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:51 am Post subject: |
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Fire the shots the Mamba.
I'm waiting for that 50 point game.
This team is so god awful, he can't play he 4th though as witnessed by last night. |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:55 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | This season has already jumped the shark. At this point I frankly could care less about whatever statline Kobe puts up from an efficiency standpoint. I'm with you GT. |
Welcome to the dark side. |
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City_Dawg Retired Number
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 Posts: 46878 Location: Coming soon and striking at your borders.
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Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:55 am Post subject: |
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Why are people giving a flip about Kobe's efficiency/shot selection on a team as busted as this? Maybe he should be more efficient so he has a more "aesthetically pleasing" statline in losses.
Damn these Kobe-colored glasses, always getting fogged up when I get agitated. _________________ *sighs*
!... |
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