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Aeneas Hunter
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 Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:20 am Post subject: New NBPA Chief: The Owners Can Be Replaced, the Current CBA is Un-American, and the Owners' Claims of Losses Are Laughable |
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I love it. What she is saying is 100% true, but it is guaranteed to raise the hackles of the owners and their apologists. The union needed someone to stir the pot a bit.
| Quote: | Michele Roberts, the NBA players' union executive director, questioned several of the principles that have governed owner-player relations in the league for decades Wednesday, objecting to the concept of a salary cap while making clear she'd push for much more than a 50-50 split of basketball-related income.
"Why don't we have the owners play half the games?" Roberts said, speaking in her Harlem office to ESPN The Magazine. "There would be no money if not for the players."
"Let's call it what it is. There. Would. Be. No. Money," she added, pausing for emphasis. "Thirty more owners can come in, and nothing will change. These guys go? The game will change. So let's stop pretending." |
| Quote: | "I don't know of any space other than the world of sports where there's this notion that we will artificially deflate what someone's able to make, just because," she said, talking about a salary cap -- a collectively bargained policy that, in its current form, has constrained team spending in the NBA since 1984-85. "It's incredibly un-American. My DNA is offended by it."
The rookie wage scale, she argued, is also problematic, as are max contracts, another entrenched restriction of the NBA's free market that Roberts wants dissolved. |
| Quote: | While commissioner Adam Silver has proposed increasing the NBA draft age limit to 20, Roberts rejected the philosophy underpinning an age limit.
"It doesn't make sense to me that you're suddenly eligible and ready to make money when you're 20, but not when you're 19, not when you're 18," she said. "I suspect that the association will agree that this is not going to be one that they will agree to easily. There is no other profession that says that you're old enough to die but not old enough to work."
Nor does Roberts expect the players to swiftly consent to the current plan for "cap smoothing," as relayed by the NBA's attorneys, wherein the league would avoid a TV-driven spike in the salary cap in 2016 by artificially and incrementally increasing the cap over multiple seasons leading into that season.
"You can call it a 'spike,' but it's also just an accurate reflection of what the revenue is," she said. "At first glance, [cap smoothing] is not that attractive, I won't lie. But we're studying it to figure out if there really is some advantage for players." |
| Quote: | In fact, Roberts doesn't think that teams are hurting for money, period -- even if she did recently hear Silver report that roughly a third of NBA franchises are still unprofitable.
"I initially just started laughing, to be honest with you," she said of her reaction to that statistic. "I know that as a result of the last CBA, at least 1.3 billion dollars in revenue that would have otherwise been on the players' side is now on the owners' side. I see the valuations of these teams going though the roof. ... How much more do you need to make money?"
So how has the NBA managed to successfully institute legislation that, in Roberts' view, is both opposed to this country's capitalistic principles and her players' best interests?
"No one wants to say it out loud, but it's a monopoly," she said. "And were there alternatives, they wouldn't get away with it."
"I'll give the league credit," she added. "They have done a great job controlling the narrative." |
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11868612/nba-owners-expendable-players-union-chief-michele-roberts-says
This is going to be fun. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:25 am Post subject: |
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I heard her on a podcast with Zach Lowe. Sounds like fighting words but what she is advocating for is a bit too much of a paradigm shift for probably most of the League.
She has to remember that she is an advocate, and though she may have some theories about what should be done, the union has shown that it typically settles for a less-than-optimal ground.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:29 am Post subject: |
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Naw, that's not exactly what she's doing. She's not going into the conference room, sitting down across from Silver, and demanding all of this stuff. That would be pointless.
What she is doing is putting all of these other issues in play. If the NBA makes the big picture economic issues (mainly the revenue split) right for the players, then everything is fine. But if the NBA starts trying to play hardball, then the issues start expanding.
That's how I read it, anyway. |
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dont_be_a_wuss
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| Great find. I wasn't aware of this cap smoothing principle. |
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K28
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| She's awesome. I love her already. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | Naw, that's not exactly what she's doing. She's not going into the conference room, sitting down across from Silver, and demanding all of this stuff. That would be pointless.
What she is doing is putting all of these other issues in play. If the NBA makes the big picture economic issues (mainly the revenue split) right for the players, then everything is fine. But if the NBA starts trying to play hardball, then the issues start expanding.
That's how I read it, anyway. |
I get what you're saying. I've done negotiations with unions and they will artificially create 15 issues, and then concede them one by one, all with the mantra that "we're compromising here" when I know that it's a made up issue.
She is laying out the grand terms, but if her rank and file really believe these are achievable outcomes, good luck with that.
I do think she has a good point about the smoothing out process.
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KobeBryantCliffordBrown
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:30 am Post subject: Re: New NBPA Chief: The Owners Can Be Replaced, the Current CBA is Un-American, and the Owners' Claims of Losses Are Laughable |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | I love it. What she is saying is 100% true, but it is guaranteed to raise the hackles of the owners and their apologists. The union needed someone to stir the pot a bit.
| Quote: | Michele Roberts, the NBA players' union executive director, questioned several of the principles that have governed owner-player relations in the league for decades Wednesday, objecting to the concept of a salary cap while making clear she'd push for much more than a 50-50 split of basketball-related income.
"Why don't we have the owners play half the games?" Roberts said, speaking in her Harlem office to ESPN The Magazine. "There would be no money if not for the players."
"Let's call it what it is. There. Would. Be. No. Money," she added, pausing for emphasis. "Thirty more owners can come in, and nothing will change. These guys go? The game will change. So let's stop pretending." |
| Quote: | "I don't know of any space other than the world of sports where there's this notion that we will artificially deflate what someone's able to make, just because," she said, talking about a salary cap -- a collectively bargained policy that, in its current form, has constrained team spending in the NBA since 1984-85. "It's incredibly un-American. My DNA is offended by it."
The rookie wage scale, she argued, is also problematic, as are max contracts, another entrenched restriction of the NBA's free market that Roberts wants dissolved. |
| Quote: | While commissioner Adam Silver has proposed increasing the NBA draft age limit to 20, Roberts rejected the philosophy underpinning an age limit.
"It doesn't make sense to me that you're suddenly eligible and ready to make money when you're 20, but not when you're 19, not when you're 18," she said. "I suspect that the association will agree that this is not going to be one that they will agree to easily. There is no other profession that says that you're old enough to die but not old enough to work."
Nor does Roberts expect the players to swiftly consent to the current plan for "cap smoothing," as relayed by the NBA's attorneys, wherein the league would avoid a TV-driven spike in the salary cap in 2016 by artificially and incrementally increasing the cap over multiple seasons leading into that season.
"You can call it a 'spike,' but it's also just an accurate reflection of what the revenue is," she said. "At first glance, [cap smoothing] is not that attractive, I won't lie. But we're studying it to figure out if there really is some advantage for players." |
| Quote: | In fact, Roberts doesn't think that teams are hurting for money, period -- even if she did recently hear Silver report that roughly a third of NBA franchises are still unprofitable.
"I initially just started laughing, to be honest with you," she said of her reaction to that statistic. "I know that as a result of the last CBA, at least 1.3 billion dollars in revenue that would have otherwise been on the players' side is now on the owners' side. I see the valuations of these teams going though the roof. ... How much more do you need to make money?"
So how has the NBA managed to successfully institute legislation that, in Roberts' view, is both opposed to this country's capitalistic principles and her players' best interests?
"No one wants to say it out loud, but it's a monopoly," she said. "And were there alternatives, they wouldn't get away with it."
"I'll give the league credit," she added. "They have done a great job controlling the narrative." |
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11868612/nba-owners-expendable-players-union-chief-michele-roberts-says
This is going to be fun. |
My goodness. What a refreshing change from Billy Hunter and D. Fish. She's gonna kill Silver in the next CBA. She better start getting the players to saving their money now for the inevitable lockout though. Homegirl is BOSS.
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― James Baldwin, Collected Essays |
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Oliver Reed
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:54 am Post subject: |
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The NBA improved both leaders in a short amount of time. Roberts is 3 years ahead with her warning, which is great. Now Silver can pretty much go, ok, we need to start changing this up and open some things. Slave owner Stern is gone, we do not need to worry about him anymore, Silver has already been innovative with the gambling, he got rid of that disgusting pile of dung in LA, and now its time to negotiate a deal where both parties can make more money and the guys who deserve more, get it.
If I were the owners and Silver, I would offer the players a open market. No salary cap, however, contracts won't be guaranteed 100%. It's fair and it's equal. The owners do not put themselves in holes and players earn their money every year instead of having what happen with Steve Nash and so many others.
If owners presented that, I would side with the owners. It's probably the only way I would. I also think the NBA and NCAA need to make an arrangement on declaring for the NBA. I think they need to get rid of the 19 yr old rule and open it up for any player who wants to jump from high school to the NBA. However, if they decide to go to college, they need to stay 3 years. You might read 3 years and go, What?! you are crazy, that's not fair, this is America, etc etc. Here's the benefit, if they stay in school, their fundamentals improve and when they come to the pros, they will be ready off the bat like they use to. If they don't go to college, which will happen and many players will go to Europe to play. The benefit there is they still improve their skills in Europe since European players play a more team based game.
My question now is, if the owners do not lockout the players, do the players strike in 2017 if they want to change the deal? |
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Hector the Pup
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:59 am Post subject: |
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I don't know about killing Silver, but she is certainly smart about getting this stuff out there early. The big point is about the league controlling the narrative, which was always easy because neither Hunter nor Fisher did anything to put forth the players side of things until it was too late. They basically started campaigning the week before voters went to cast their ballots while the league started their campaign long before.
If she has this planned well, she is already talking to the players about the issues and making sure they are ready for another lockout or even a strike in 2016.
I doubt she gets any massive concessions, but at least she's making it sound like the NBAPA won't be making any concessions of their own this time around. |
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22
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:42 am Post subject: |
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^^^ That's exactly it. Her main job is to control the narrative.
The owners and their influence over ESPN adn other national sports outlets is what did the players in on the last CBA. The owners got the populace on their side from the start. Only people who took the time to research saw that the players were being hosed.
If she can get the public on her side the players will do MUCH better this time around.
Good luck with that though when the owners/media have a huge conflict of interest |
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Reflexx
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:45 am Post subject: |
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Love it.
She doesn't expect to get most of what she's asking for. Most negotiations meet somewhere in the middle instead of heavily on the owners' side like it is now. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:53 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, Hunter/Fisher were easily overwhelmed. She speaks a great game so far, and that's part of the battle. Framing the issue publicly helps but then she has to reach the rank and file and convince them that a lockout (and a possibly prolonged one) is worth it. Otherwise owners have deeper pockets.
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22
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Yeah, Hunter/Fisher were easily overwhelmed. She speaks a great game so far, and that's part of the battle. Framing the issue publicly helps but then she has to reach the rank and file and convince them that a lockout (and a possibly prolonged one) is worth it. Otherwise owners have deeper pockets. |
Yup.
Ultimately there may just be too many short-sighted players for her to get the needed cohesion |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:55 am Post subject: Re: New NBPA Chief: The Owners Can Be Replaced, the Current CBA is Un-American, and the Owners' Claims of Losses Are Laughable |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: |
| Quote: | While commissioner Adam Silver has proposed increasing the NBA draft age limit to 20, Roberts rejected the philosophy underpinning an age limit.
"It doesn't make sense to me that you're suddenly eligible and ready to make money when you're 20, but not when you're 19, not when you're 18," she said. "I suspect that the association will agree that this is not going to be one that they will agree to easily. There is no other profession that says that you're old enough to die but not old enough to work."
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Tell that to the US Labor Board who have set a minimum age law of 14. And last I knew you could die at much younger ages than that.
It is difficult to get concerned when billionaires and millionaires fight. Let them lock out, strike, whatever. I didn't care last time, I won't care the next time.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:57 am Post subject: Re: New NBPA Chief: The Owners Can Be Replaced, the Current CBA is Un-American, and the Owners' Claims of Losses Are Laughable |
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| KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: |
My goodness. What a refreshing change from Billy Hunter and D. Fish. She's gonna kill Silver in the next CBA. She better start getting the players to saving their money now for the inevitable lockout though. Homegirl is BOSS. |
I would be surprised if the owners opt out of this CBA.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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Funny thing is that if there is a lockout, the players don't get paid, but the attorney continues to get paid. Just remember that fact.
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jonnybravo
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:30 pm Post subject: Re: New NBPA Chief: The Owners Can Be Replaced, the Current CBA is Un-American, and the Owners' Claims of Losses Are Laughable |
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| KobeBryantCliffordBrown wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | I love it. What she is saying is 100% true, but it is guaranteed to raise the hackles of the owners and their apologists. The union needed someone to stir the pot a bit.
| Quote: | Michele Roberts, the NBA players' union executive director, questioned several of the principles that have governed owner-player relations in the league for decades Wednesday, objecting to the concept of a salary cap while making clear she'd push for much more than a 50-50 split of basketball-related income.
"Why don't we have the owners play half the games?" Roberts said, speaking in her Harlem office to ESPN The Magazine. "There would be no money if not for the players."
"Let's call it what it is. There. Would. Be. No. Money," she added, pausing for emphasis. "Thirty more owners can come in, and nothing will change. These guys go? The game will change. So let's stop pretending." |
| Quote: | "I don't know of any space other than the world of sports where there's this notion that we will artificially deflate what someone's able to make, just because," she said, talking about a salary cap -- a collectively bargained policy that, in its current form, has constrained team spending in the NBA since 1984-85. "It's incredibly un-American. My DNA is offended by it."
The rookie wage scale, she argued, is also problematic, as are max contracts, another entrenched restriction of the NBA's free market that Roberts wants dissolved. |
| Quote: | While commissioner Adam Silver has proposed increasing the NBA draft age limit to 20, Roberts rejected the philosophy underpinning an age limit.
"It doesn't make sense to me that you're suddenly eligible and ready to make money when you're 20, but not when you're 19, not when you're 18," she said. "I suspect that the association will agree that this is not going to be one that they will agree to easily. There is no other profession that says that you're old enough to die but not old enough to work."
Nor does Roberts expect the players to swiftly consent to the current plan for "cap smoothing," as relayed by the NBA's attorneys, wherein the league would avoid a TV-driven spike in the salary cap in 2016 by artificially and incrementally increasing the cap over multiple seasons leading into that season.
"You can call it a 'spike,' but it's also just an accurate reflection of what the revenue is," she said. "At first glance, [cap smoothing] is not that attractive, I won't lie. But we're studying it to figure out if there really is some advantage for players." |
| Quote: | In fact, Roberts doesn't think that teams are hurting for money, period -- even if she did recently hear Silver report that roughly a third of NBA franchises are still unprofitable.
"I initially just started laughing, to be honest with you," she said of her reaction to that statistic. "I know that as a result of the last CBA, at least 1.3 billion dollars in revenue that would have otherwise been on the players' side is now on the owners' side. I see the valuations of these teams going though the roof. ... How much more do you need to make money?"
So how has the NBA managed to successfully institute legislation that, in Roberts' view, is both opposed to this country's capitalistic principles and her players' best interests?
"No one wants to say it out loud, but it's a monopoly," she said. "And were there alternatives, they wouldn't get away with it."
"I'll give the league credit," she added. "They have done a great job controlling the narrative." |
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11868612/nba-owners-expendable-players-union-chief-michele-roberts-says
This is going to be fun. |
My goodness. What a refreshing change from Billy Hunter and D. Fish. She's gonna kill Silver in the next CBA. She better start getting the players to saving their money now for the inevitable lockout though. Homegirl is BOSS. |
I don't know. It doesn't matter how good of a negotiator she is. It never really was about that. It boils down to whether or not the players can handle going on without the pay checks.
Baseball succeeds because from every story I've heard, the players are indoctrinated even at the minor league level to walk in step with the rest of the union. Curt Schilling used to tell stories about how veteran players would constantly remind them of the sacrifices the union has made to get them. It sounded almost cult-like the zeal players displayed.
With that said, Lebron's generation has the best change in getting a "win" against ownership I think. These guys are tight even across teams with players maintaining friendships via agencies etc. Still an uphill battle no doubt. |
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l4kerz
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Why wait for the CBA to end? Why not just go nuclear and file an antitrust lawsuit? |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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Players can pony up their own money and form a league. Only problem, they then become "owners." The irony.
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jonnybravo
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| l4kerz wrote: | | Why wait for the CBA to end? Why not just go nuclear and file an antitrust lawsuit? |
They tried that last time IIRC. It still raises the same issue. When push comes to shove and it's being battled out in court, are the players willing to gut it out without the paychecks? Recent history says no. |
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leor_77
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| I know it's a cliche, but I truly couldn't care less about whether some billionaire's or millionaires will make more money. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| l4kerz wrote: | | Why wait for the CBA to end? Why not just go nuclear and file an antitrust lawsuit? |
The non-statutory labor exemption to the antitrust laws continues in effect until the CBA expires and the union decertifies. That's a little oversimplified, but it's close enough for now. |
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shnxx
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| It's easy to see if owners are necessary or not: players can form their own leagues and run it. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| leor_77 wrote: | | I know it's a cliche, but I truly couldn't care less about whether some billionaire's or millionaires will make more money. |
True, but the structure of the CBA does affect us as fans. The current CBA was aimed at big market teams like the Lakers. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Funny thing is that if there is a lockout, the players don't get paid, but the attorney continues to get paid. Just remember that fact. |
Is this a great country or what? |
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