Would like to compare supporting casts over their careers please
Kobe had a much tougher career IMHO..
Derek fisher vs ginobli or parker...
When did Duncan have scrubs as starters?
Did Duncan ever have to deal with dramatic coaching changes repeatedly? He never had scrubs as coaches either?
Duncan never played with anyone as good as Shaq and Gasol is just as good as any teammate Duncan has ever had, aside from Robinson in the 90's.
And plenty of subpar starters have played alongside Duncan. See Avery Johnson or some of the bigs to start alongside him after Robinson retired.
He always had Parker and Ginobli though, right?
Always had Popovich as coach and GM
Did he ever have to deal media hate?
No, he hasn't always had Manu and Parker. He actually won a title before either of them were drafted by SA (1999). He won another title before either of them were playing at an elite/star level (2003). And I'm sure he would trade Manu, Parker and Pop for Shaq and Phil Jackson.
As far as media hate, Duncan hasn't had any spats with teammates, legal allegations and he doesn't play in a major media market.
Joined: 07 May 2014 Posts: 13811 Location: Boulder ;)
Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:34 pm Post subject:
In truth Kobe playing with Shaq may have had quite a serious effect on his psyche.. Shaq was a lazy female dog in heat many times and would sit out for stretches at a time whining about a sore toe and refuse to practice in the off season and not work on his free throws ... Duncan might have been driven insane dealing with Shaq.
And your bias feels even a bit extreme..not saying anything whether it is right or wrong..just a bit extreme..
Would like to compare supporting casts over their careers please
Kobe had a much tougher career IMHO..
Derek fisher vs ginobli or parker...
When did Duncan have scrubs as starters?
Did Duncan ever have to deal with dramatic coaching changes repeatedly? He never had scrubs as coaches either?
Duncan never played with anyone as good as Shaq and Gasol is just as good as any teammate Duncan has ever had, aside from Robinson in the 90's.
And plenty of subpar starters have played alongside Duncan. See Avery Johnson or some of the bigs to start alongside him after Robinson retired.
He always had Parker and Ginobli though, right?
Always had Popovich as coach and GM
Did he ever have to deal media hate?
No, he hasn't always had Manu and Parker. He actually won a title before either of them were drafted by SA (1999). He won another title before either of them were playing at an elite/star level (2003). And I'm sure he would trade Manu, Parker and Pop for Shaq and Phil Jackson.
As far as media hate, Duncan hasn't had any spats with teammates, legal allegations and he doesn't play in a major media market.
Duncan in his right mind will never do that, but I'm sure Kobe will trade Shaq and Phil Jackson for Parker, Manu and Pop. At least those 3 won't bash him in the media and start stating claims on who's team it is, thats where Kobe picked up the habit. _________________ My Dream Starting 5 next Season
Would like to compare supporting casts over their careers please
Kobe had a much tougher career IMHO..
Derek fisher vs ginobli or parker...
When did Duncan have scrubs as starters?
Did Duncan ever have to deal with dramatic coaching changes repeatedly? He never had scrubs as coaches either?
Duncan never played with anyone as good as Shaq and Gasol is just as good as any teammate Duncan has ever had, aside from Robinson in the 90's.
And plenty of subpar starters have played alongside Duncan. See Avery Johnson or some of the bigs to start alongside him after Robinson retired.
He always had Parker and Ginobli though, right?
Always had Popovich as coach and GM
Did he ever have to deal media hate?
No, he hasn't always had Manu and Parker. He actually won a title before either of them were drafted by SA (1999). He won another title before either of them were playing at an elite/star level (2003). And I'm sure he would trade Manu, Parker and Pop for Shaq and Phil Jackson.
As far as media hate, Duncan hasn't had any spats with teammates, legal allegations and he doesn't play in a major media market.
everything else, yes
but I wouldn't trade Pop for Phil Jackson -- and I really don't think anyone in SA would either.
Personally, I always thought if you put Shaq & Kobe on a team coached by Pop that would have been 10 years of championships.
Phil got more press, but Pop is a better coach. His teams play D all the time, not just when it suits them, his players know their roles, they have an offense that executes and anyone can play, and he actively manages his team _________________ LBJ + AD = More rings
Never argue with a fool - listeners can't tell you apart
Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI
Would like to compare supporting casts over their careers please
Kobe had a much tougher career IMHO..
Derek fisher vs ginobli or parker...
When did Duncan have scrubs as starters?
Did Duncan ever have to deal with dramatic coaching changes repeatedly? He never had scrubs as coaches either?
I'm pretty sure Avery Johnson would have been crucified here.
They've never had to fire a coach to appease Duncan either, unless you think Phil leaving after 2004 was just a total coincidence.
Phil Jackson wasn't fired to appease Kobe, Phil Jackson was fired because he got into a power struggle with the FO making it a him or me type of situation and the Lakers made the right call by picking Kobe, whom Phil wanted traded for Jason Kidd and Shawn Marion, thank god the FO still had their wits with them at that point. That would have been an awfully terrible trade in the Suns favor. _________________ My Dream Starting 5 next Season
Pg Lonzo
Sg Kawhi
Sf Ingram
Pf Lebron
C Dedmon
Bench: Caruso, Hart, Bullock, Kuzma, McGee etc
Last edited by Andre2K on Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:09 am; edited 1 time in total
Duncan in his right mind will never do that, but I'm sure Kobe will trade Shaq and Phil Jackson for Parker, Manu and Pop. At least those 3 won't bash him in the media and start stating claims on who's team it is, thats where Kobe picked up the habit.
As good as Manu and Parker are they have severe limitations that Laker fans are going to hate. Manu lacks the durability to play long minutes and Parker was a one trick pony for a long time before he developed into an ideal PG. They've also had playoff outings even worse than Pau. If they are with the Lakers they will get crucified for their failures and shortcomings just as much as Pau did.
Laker fans always see the grass greener on the other side when they have the best lawn.
Phil would not have saved this team. People forget we sucked during Phil's last year here. You can even argue Mike Brown did more with a weaker team.
Phil wouldn't have to save this team. What he needed to do was save the Team Mike Brown didn't know how to use. Mike Brown needed a PG to make his system work, Phil didn't.
Saving that Mike Brown team would have meant keeping Dwight and Pau with Kobe, entirely a different set of talent.
After saving that MB team, it would have been easier for him to move into the FO and select his successor (Kerr, Fisher) and depending on Kobe's contract (Phil would likely have convinced him to take less) Melo would be here with Pau goes for the MLE. Howard(20)/Pau(5)/Melo (18)/Kobe(18) = 61 That's the power of the guru who offers up rings.
With that core, I think they coulda had Farmar to be a starter for the min.
My point exactly. As someone said, the hiring of MDA has brought this organization five years back.
From Mike Brown to MDA, Jimbo hiring of these coaches are simply atrocious.
If it wasn't for the finest form of nepotism, Jimbo would be gone.
Kobe got what he wanted, and he shouldn't attempt to provide so many explanations. Just say: "Tim/Dirk do things their way, but I prefer to do things my way. I feel I deserve the money, that's it." _________________ Smrek 2, Nevitt 1, Barkley 0
As far as media hate, Duncan hasn't had any spats with teammates, legal allegations and he doesn't play in a major media market.
I remember reading that Tony Parker said Duncan was a complete (bleep) to him his first year. But that's all in the past, so as far as the press is concerned --- crickets.
There have also been lots of other Duncan relationship rumors floating around the internet that never seem to attract the press.
As far as media hate, Duncan hasn't had any spats with teammates, legal allegations and he doesn't play in a major media market.
I remember reading that Tony Parker said Duncan was a complete (bleep) to him his first year. But that's all in the past, so as far as the press is concerned --- crickets.
There have also been lots of other Duncan relationship rumors floating around the internet that never seem to attract the press.
Double-standard.
I guess that's fair because his success never attracts the press either. When the lakers win, the media is buzzing all summer. When the spurs win, the season quietly and abruptly ends.
As far as media hate, Duncan hasn't had any spats with teammates, legal allegations and he doesn't play in a major media market.
I remember reading that Tony Parker said Duncan was a complete (bleep) to him his first year. But that's all in the past, so as far as the press is concerned --- crickets.
There have also been lots of other Duncan relationship rumors floating around the internet that never seem to attract the press.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 6:23 pm Post subject:
DimesnD wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
Phil would not have saved this team. People forget we sucked during Phil's last year here. You can even argue Mike Brown did more with a weaker team.
Phil wouldn't have to save this team. What he needed to do was save the Team Mike Brown didn't know how to use. Mike Brown needed a PG to make his system work, Phil didn't.
Saving that Mike Brown team would have meant keeping Dwight and Pau with Kobe, entirely a different set of talent.
After saving that MB team, it would have been easier for him to move into the FO and select his successor (Kerr, Fisher) and depending on Kobe's contract (Phil would likely have convinced him to take less) Melo would be here with Pau goes for the MLE. Howard(20)/Pau(5)/Melo (18)/Kobe(18) = 61 That's the power of the guru who offers up rings.
With that core, I think they coulda had Farmar to be a starter for the min.
There would be no Phil in the front office. The salaries you posted are off as well. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Kobe isn't fooling me. This is what he wanted. To have the spotlight/shots all to himself so he can chase scoring records. Kobe would be miserable as a second or third option.
For the fans this is the worst possible product. A historically bad team with an old man jacking up shots to chase records. I would rather watch Clarkson shoot 30 times.
Joined: 07 May 2014 Posts: 13811 Location: Boulder ;)
Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:20 pm Post subject:
OCWA wrote:
Kobe isn't fooling me. This is what he wanted. To have the spotlight/shots all to himself so he can chase scoring records. Kobe would be miserable as a second or third option.
For the fans this is the worst possible product. A historically bad team with an old man jacking up shots to chase records. I would rather watch Clarkson shoot 30 times.
This is one of the cruelest posts I have seen about Kobe on this site.
How many games has Kobe played in the past two years?
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35750 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:55 pm Post subject:
ContagiousInspiration wrote:
OCWA wrote:
Kobe isn't fooling me. This is what he wanted. To have the spotlight/shots all to himself so he can chase scoring records. Kobe would be miserable as a second or third option.
For the fans this is the worst possible product. A historically bad team with an old man jacking up shots to chase records. I would rather watch Clarkson shoot 30 times.
This is one of the cruelest posts I have seen about Kobe on this site.
How many games has Kobe played in the past two years?
He's got a point. If Kobe really wanted to win, he would have taken less money. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
Kobe isn't fooling me. This is what he wanted. To have the spotlight/shots all to himself so he can chase scoring records. Kobe would be miserable as a second or third option.
For the fans this is the worst possible product. A historically bad team with an old man jacking up shots to chase records. I would rather watch Clarkson shoot 30 times.
This is one of the cruelest posts I have seen about Kobe on this site.
How many games has Kobe played in the past two years?
He's got a point. If Kobe really wanted to win, he would have taken less money.
Kobe deserves that money for what he has brought to this team and organization. Lakers signed a huge TV contract with Time Warner.
His exploits increased the value of the purchase.
If ownership really wanted to win, I mean really give this franchise the best chance to win, it would have brought in Phil.
Unfortunately, Jimbo went with someone else and as someone said, that move has put this team back five (5) years.
Kobe isn't fooling me. This is what he wanted. To have the spotlight/shots all to himself so he can chase scoring records. Kobe would be miserable as a second or third option.
For the fans this is the worst possible product. A historically bad team with an old man jacking up shots to chase records. I would rather watch Clarkson shoot 30 times.
This is one of the cruelest posts I have seen about Kobe on this site.
How many games has Kobe played in the past two years?
When 30 year old Kobe was taking 30 + shots I fully supported it and defended him against the haters. When The Lakers chose Kobe over Shaq, I supported it. When Young Kobe was shooting airballs against Utah I still thought it was a good idea to let him take those shots. The point being, that in all those instances i supported it because I believed it was good for the team or future/development of the team.
This years team is going to lose/be bad whether Kobe shoots or not. So Kobe taking all those shots serves no purpose for this team or future teams. The only purpose it serves is to pad Kobe's point totals. It would be better for the team to split Kobe's minutes and shots with a developing player like Clarkson.
Kobe isn't fooling me. This is what he wanted. To have the spotlight/shots all to himself so he can chase scoring records. Kobe would be miserable as a second or third option.
For the fans this is the worst possible product. A historically bad team with an old man jacking up shots to chase records. I would rather watch Clarkson shoot 30 times.
This is one of the cruelest posts I have seen about Kobe on this site.
How many games has Kobe played in the past two years?
He's got a point. If Kobe really wanted to win, he would have taken less money.
Kobe deserves that money for what he has brought to this team and organization. Lakers signed a huge TV contract with Time Warner.
His exploits increased the value of the purchase.
If ownership really wanted to win, I mean really give this franchise the best chance to win, it would have brought in Phil.
Unfortunately, Jimbo went with someone else and as someone said, that move has put this team back five (5) years.
Yeah and no one complains about it in terms of a business perspective.
However from a basketball/team building/winning perspective, the contract is toxic. No way is Kobe worth more than Lebron/KD basketball wise at this point considering his age+achillies injury. It's hard to build a championship team when you have a player taking about 40% of the cap.
Even worse was the narrative this offseason where veterans like dirk and Randolph taking paycuts to help their teams win. Can't convince other free agents this team is about winning when you have such a contract on the roster.
So yes kobe deserves his contract, but he forfeited any complaints about winning as a result.
Also Phil would have helped with the coaching only, which was going to only last a year or two at best. As Shaw and Rambis have shown, phil coaching tree isn't the best. Fisher is starting to look worrisome but the jury is still out.
Last edited by dabask11 on Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:57 pm; edited 2 times in total
Kobe deserves that money for what he has brought to this team and organization.
Should the Lakers give Kobe another mega deal after 2016? How much more money should the Lakers throw at old Kobe until this 'debt' has been paid? Kobe already got paid 30 mil last season for playing six games and he hasn't helped us win a title for the last four years while he was being paid handsomely. I would say that whatever the Lakers owe to Kobe should have been paid off by last year.
laker4life wrote:
Lakers signed a huge TV contract with Time Warner. His exploits increased the value of the purchase.
We don't know that, and we will find out this year how much the world cares about Kobe when the Lakers become the worst team in the league.
laker4life wrote:
If ownership really wanted to win, I mean really give this franchise the best chance to win, it would have brought in Phil.
Unfortunately, Jimbo went with someone else and as someone said, that move has put this team back five (5) years.
No, if the ownership wanted to win then they would not have laid off all the long time employees that Jerry Buss has entrusted the franchise to. Bringing back a 70 year old Phil with health and accountability issues is not going to solve any problems.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:21 am Post subject:
Tagurt wrote:
laker4life wrote:
If ownership really wanted to win, I mean really give this franchise the best chance to win, it would have brought in Phil.
Unfortunately, Jimbo went with someone else and as someone said, that move has put this team back five (5) years.
No, if the ownership wanted to win then they would not have laid off all the long time employees that Jerry Buss has entrusted the franchise to. Bringing back a 70 year old Phil with health and accountability issues is not going to solve any problems.
You do realize that it was Jerry Buss who laid off those employees? _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
If ownership really wanted to win, I mean really give this franchise the best chance to win, it would have brought in Phil.
Unfortunately, Jimbo went with someone else and as someone said, that move has put this team back five (5) years.
No, if the ownership wanted to win then they would not have laid off all the long time employees that Jerry Buss has entrusted the franchise to. Bringing back a 70 year old Phil with health and accountability issues is not going to solve any problems.
You do realize that it was Jerry Buss who laid off those employees?
I disagree. I put this on Jim Buss because based upon the majority of articles that I read from previous employees (ie. Shaw, Lester, etc.) Jim Buss was responsible.
Also, I have discussed with other people affiliated with the Lakers and they simply stated that Jim had a problem with Phil, etc.
Finally,based upon the comments and articles (SI scathing report, etc.) about Jim and his management style, I believe it was Jim.
Based upon all of this information, I simply concluded that it was Jim Buss.
Personally, I will never know the truth. In fact, I believe no one here knows the actual truth. However, what I can tell is that a majority of the fans who are passionate about the Lakers believe that it is Jim Buss.
In the end, I want the Laker to succeed and if Jim can do it, I will give him the credit. I have no ill will towards him.
However, if you look at this team, his "track record", the numerous articles about him, the current record of this team and other factors, there has to be some culpability here. In fact. Jim Buss recognizes it and made the statement this year that he will resign if the team does not turn around.
Jim Buss acknowledges and accepts his responsibilities for the result of this team. If he did not, he would not make that statement.
If Jim was only an owner with no involvement in the daily operation, he would say something like other owners who are not involved in the daily operation. He would say "I will carefully evaluate the performance of my employees and there will be changes". Cuban would say that. Jordan would say that. Arison would say that.
Jim say the opposite. Jim knows it and accepts it.
How could Kobe be Jealous of the spurs? Does Kobe feel he has no ability to choose winning over money? Duncan winning rings because his less than superstar salary affords them more depth. Kobe trying to win lottery at this point. Can't be jealous if you've decided your own path.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum