Kobe Bryant admits he’s “jealous” of Tim Duncan’s stability in San Antonio (from article entitled: kobe-bryant-tim-duncan-on-different-paths-to-greatness-share-same-competitive-fire)
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:31 am    Post subject:

laker4life wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Tagurt wrote:



laker4life wrote:
If ownership really wanted to win, I mean really give this franchise the best chance to win, it would have brought in Phil.

Unfortunately, Jimbo went with someone else and as someone said, that move has put this team back five (5) years.


No, if the ownership wanted to win then they would not have laid off all the long time employees that Jerry Buss has entrusted the franchise to. Bringing back a 70 year old Phil with health and accountability issues is not going to solve any problems.


You do realize that it was Jerry Buss who laid off those employees?



I disagree. I put this on Jim Buss because based upon the majority of articles that I read from previous employees (ie. Shaw, Lester, etc.) Jim Buss was responsible.

Also, I have discussed with other people affiliated with the Lakers and they simply stated that Jim had a problem with Phil, etc.

Finally,based upon the comments and articles (SI scathing report, etc.) about Jim and his management style, I believe it was Jim.

Based upon all of this information, I simply concluded that it was Jim Buss.

Personally, I will never know the truth. In fact, I believe no one here knows the actual truth. However, what I can tell is that a majority of the fans who are passionate about the Lakers believe that it is Jim Buss.

In the end, I want the Laker to succeed and if Jim can do it, I will give him the credit. I have no ill will towards him.

However, if you look at this team, his "track record", the numerous articles about him, the current record of this team and other factors, there has to be some culpability here. In fact. Jim Buss recognizes it and made the statement this year that he will resign if the team does not turn around.

Jim Buss acknowledges and accepts his responsibilities for the result of this team. If he did not, he would not make that statement.

If Jim was only an owner with no involvement in the daily operation, he would say something like other owners who are not involved in the daily operation. He would say "I will carefully evaluate the performance of my employees and there will be changes". Cuban would say that. Jordan would say that. Arison would say that.

Jim say the opposite. Jim knows it and accepts it.

Hopefully, he will resign when his time is up.


You can put it on whoever you want, Dr. Buss was running the organization at that time. Nothing was done without his ok. If it makes you feel better blaming someone else, then do it. But don't expect us to think that it is the truth. And don't ignore that other teams did the same thing during the lockout, including the NBA themselves who laid off 11% of their employees.
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laker4life
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:10 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
laker4life wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Tagurt wrote:



laker4life wrote:
If ownership really wanted to win, I mean really give this franchise the best chance to win, it would have brought in Phil.

Unfortunately, Jimbo went with someone else and as someone said, that move has put this team back five (5) years.


No, if the ownership wanted to win then they would not have laid off all the long time employees that Jerry Buss has entrusted the franchise to. Bringing back a 70 year old Phil with health and accountability issues is not going to solve any problems.


You do realize that it was Jerry Buss who laid off those employees?



I disagree. I put this on Jim Buss because based upon the majority of articles that I read from previous employees (ie. Shaw, Lester, etc.) Jim Buss was responsible.

Also, I have discussed with other people affiliated with the Lakers and they simply stated that Jim had a problem with Phil, etc.

Finally,based upon the comments and articles (SI scathing report, etc.) about Jim and his management style, I believe it was Jim.

Based upon all of this information, I simply concluded that it was Jim Buss.

Personally, I will never know the truth. In fact, I believe no one here knows the actual truth. However, what I can tell is that a majority of the fans who are passionate about the Lakers believe that it is Jim Buss.

In the end, I want the Laker to succeed and if Jim can do it, I will give him the credit. I have no ill will towards him.

However, if you look at this team, his "track record", the numerous articles about him, the current record of this team and other factors, there has to be some culpability here. In fact. Jim Buss recognizes it and made the statement this year that he will resign if the team does not turn around.

Jim Buss acknowledges and accepts his responsibilities for the result of this team. If he did not, he would not make that statement.

If Jim was only an owner with no involvement in the daily operation, he would say something like other owners who are not involved in the daily operation. He would say "I will carefully evaluate the performance of my employees and there will be changes". Cuban would say that. Jordan would say that. Arison would say that.

Jim say the opposite. Jim knows it and accepts it.

Hopefully, he will resign when his time is up.


You can put it on whoever you want, Dr. Buss was running the organization at that time. Nothing was done without his ok. If it makes you feel better blaming someone else, then do it. But don't expect us to think that it is the truth. And don't ignore that other teams did the same thing during the lockout, including the NBA themselves who laid off 11% of their employees.


I do recognize other teams did it.

I also recognize there was a pattern to the firing by the Lakers and a majority related to individuals affiliated with Phil. It was documented in the news.

I do not expect people to take my word as the truth. I do expect people to research it themselves and come up with their own conclusion.

Jerry Buss was the boss and his management style is clearly divergent from his son who simply did not like Phil (which is also documented in the news)

I admit that Phil can be pretty condescending and aloof with people. I imagine that Jimbo did not appreciate it as much and cleaning house of Phil's cohorts was his way of getting back at Phil.

I do hope Jim turns it around. But if he doesn't I can't wait till he leaves.
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tony smith
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:16 pm    Post subject:

^^^^^
I had the chance to talk to James Worthy about the very topic you two are discussing, and he said the exact same thing as what Laker4Life is saying:

Jim hated Phil. He wanted to wipe out every trace of him as soon as he had the chance. Many people in the org. were against MDA being hired, not to mention the employee purge.

Ventura, you can keep arguing. I know how much you love to debate. But the assemblage of reports and personal accounts, not to mention logically connecting the dots is hard to deny.

And let's not forget as soon as Phil was gone, Jim took his office, a gesture as symbolically clear as it gets.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:28 pm    Post subject:

tony smith wrote:
^^^^^
I had the chance to talk to James Worthy about the very topic you two are discussing, and he said the exact same thing as what Laker4Life is saying:

Jim hated Phil. He wanted to wipe out every trace of him as soon as he had the chance. Many people in the org. were against MDA being hired, not to mention the employee purge.

Ventura, you can keep arguing. I know how much you love to debate. But the assemblage of reports and personal accounts, not to mention logically connecting the dots is hard to deny.

And let's not forget as soon as Phil was gone, Jim took his office, a gesture as symbolically clear as it gets.


Tony Smith: Thanks for confirming my information.

When Jimbo's disdained for Phil is reported almost universally in the news and when you combined that with Jimbo's handling of individuals affiliated with Phil, it is easy to conclude that Jimbo's decision was based upon his animosity towards Phil.

I also forgot about Jimbo's decision to take over Phil's office. That was also reported in the news.

Like you said "connecting the dots".
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ppineda
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:31 pm    Post subject:

DimesnD wrote:
How could Kobe be Jealous of the spurs? Does Kobe feel he has no ability to choose winning over money? Duncan winning rings because his less than superstar salary affords them more depth. Kobe trying to win lottery at this point. Can't be jealous if you've decided your own path.


He's jealous of the Spurs because the Spurs can draft and develop players (Kawhi, Danny Green, Patty Mills). Even Manu and Tony to some extent. I believe if Kobe saw the Lakers developing that sort of talent he would take a pay cut. But why take a paycut if you don't trust your franchise to use the cap space wisely.

I also believe that if the Spurs were in the same situation of the Lakers (not getting a good player in the draft or developing cast-offs). Duncan wouldn't take a paycut. He's too smart to lose money for the team to throw it away. There is no point in that.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:07 pm    Post subject:

ppineda wrote:
DimesnD wrote:
How could Kobe be Jealous of the spurs? Does Kobe feel he has no ability to choose winning over money? Duncan winning rings because his less than superstar salary affords them more depth. Kobe trying to win lottery at this point. Can't be jealous if you've decided your own path.


He's jealous of the Spurs because the Spurs can draft and develop players (Kawhi, Danny Green, Patty Mills). Even Manu and Tony to some extent. I believe if Kobe saw the Lakers developing that sort of talent he would take a pay cut. But why take a paycut if you don't trust your franchise to use the cap space wisely.

I also believe that if the Spurs were in the same situation of the Lakers (not getting a good player in the draft or developing cast-offs). Duncan wouldn't take a paycut. He's too smart to lose money for the team to throw it away. There is no point in that.


Aside from Kawhi, most of the spurs roster were castoffs. Green was cut by the cavs, Benlineli bounced from team to team, Mills went all over the place from d-league to international before settling with the spurs, Diaw was known as an overweight headcase etc.

Tim Duncan would be smart all right: mainly because he would have done everything in his power to avoid our current situation.

Part of the reason the Lakers are in this mess is because of Kobe's ego in driving out Dwight and taking a huge contract in order to be top dog.

Duncan, on the other hand, has shown he's willing to let go of his ego for the sake of winning. Heck, he probably wouldn't have signed his extension until after the off-season.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:37 pm    Post subject:

ppineda wrote:
He's jealous of the Spurs because the Spurs can draft and develop players (Kawhi, Danny Green, Patty Mills). Even Manu and Tony to some extent. I believe if Kobe saw the Lakers developing that sort of talent he would take a pay cut. But why take a paycut if you don't trust your franchise to use the cap space wisely.

I also believe that if the Spurs were in the same situation of the Lakers (not getting a good player in the draft or developing cast-offs). Duncan wouldn't take a paycut. He's too smart to lose money for the team to throw it away. There is no point in that.


Andrew Bynum was a much better prospect than all those guys listed and Kobe was still pushing the Lakers to trade him for a washed up Jason Kidd. Kobe doesn't wait for prospects to mature, he only waits for established players to come to him.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:41 pm    Post subject:

laker4life wrote:


I do recognize other teams did it.

I also recognize there was a pattern to the firing by the Lakers and a majority related to individuals affiliated with Phil. It was documented in the news.

I do not expect people to take my word as the truth. I do expect people to research it themselves and come up with their own conclusion.

Jerry Buss was the boss and his management style is clearly divergent from his son who simply did not like Phil (which is also documented in the news)

I admit that Phil can be pretty condescending and aloof with people. I imagine that Jimbo did not appreciate it as much and cleaning house of Phil's cohorts was his way of getting back at Phil.

I do hope Jim turns it around. But if he doesn't I can't wait till he leaves.



I think most of us feel that way.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:42 pm    Post subject:

tony smith wrote:
^^^^^
I had the chance to talk to James Worthy about the very topic you two are discussing, and he said the exact same thing as what Laker4Life is saying:

Jim hated Phil. He wanted to wipe out every trace of him as soon as he had the chance. Many people in the org. were against MDA being hired, not to mention the employee purge.

Ventura, you can keep arguing. I know how much you love to debate. But the assemblage of reports and personal accounts, not to mention logically connecting the dots is hard to deny.

And let's not forget as soon as Phil was gone, Jim took his office, a gesture as symbolically clear as it gets.


That explains nothing, most of the employees let go were here before Phil ever was. Letting them go had nothing to do with Phil.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:16 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
tony smith wrote:
^^^^^
I had the chance to talk to James Worthy about the very topic you two are discussing, and he said the exact same thing as what Laker4Life is saying:

Jim hated Phil. He wanted to wipe out every trace of him as soon as he had the chance. Many people in the org. were against MDA being hired, not to mention the employee purge.

Ventura, you can keep arguing. I know how much you love to debate. But the assemblage of reports and personal accounts, not to mention logically connecting the dots is hard to deny.

And let's not forget as soon as Phil was gone, Jim took his office, a gesture as symbolically clear as it gets.


That explains nothing, most of the employees let go were here before Phil ever was. Letting them go had nothing to do with Phil.


That's cool, man. Just keep your head in the sand and pretend like the history didn't happen the way it did. I'm sure you personally have a better understanding of what happened than James Worthy does.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:23 pm    Post subject:

So seeing the reality of what happened is having your head in the sand?

Since when was Ronnie Lester a Phil guy? Or Chris Bodaken? Phil wasn't even a Bulls coach when they were hired, let alone a Laker coach. It is what happened, they are facts, there is no editorial.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:40 pm    Post subject:

Because the only way anybody can become a "Phil guy" is if they are hired at the same time? Certainly working shoulder to shoulder for years couldn't cause people to bond... especially when sharing huge successes over the years.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:43 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
laker4life wrote:


I do recognize other teams did it.

I also recognize there was a pattern to the firing by the Lakers and a majority related to individuals affiliated with Phil. It was documented in the news.

I do not expect people to take my word as the truth. I do expect people to research it themselves and come up with their own conclusion.

Jerry Buss was the boss and his management style is clearly divergent from his son who simply did not like Phil (which is also documented in the news)

I admit that Phil can be pretty condescending and aloof with people. I imagine that Jimbo did not appreciate it as much and cleaning house of Phil's cohorts was his way of getting back at Phil.

I do hope Jim turns it around. But if he doesn't I can't wait till he leaves.



I think most of us feel that way.


Some want him out now.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 6:09 am    Post subject: Re: Kobe Bryant admits he’s “jealous” of Tim Duncan’s stability in San Antonio (from article entitled: kobe-bryant-tim-duncan-on-different-paths-to-greatness-share-same-competitive-fire)

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:13 am    Post subject:

dabask11 wrote:
ppineda wrote:
DimesnD wrote:
How could Kobe be Jealous of the spurs? Does Kobe feel he has no ability to choose winning over money? Duncan winning rings because his less than superstar salary affords them more depth. Kobe trying to win lottery at this point. Can't be jealous if you've decided your own path.


He's jealous of the Spurs because the Spurs can draft and develop players (Kawhi, Danny Green, Patty Mills). Even Manu and Tony to some extent. I believe if Kobe saw the Lakers developing that sort of talent he would take a pay cut. But why take a paycut if you don't trust your franchise to use the cap space wisely.

I also believe that if the Spurs were in the same situation of the Lakers (not getting a good player in the draft or developing cast-offs). Duncan wouldn't take a paycut. He's too smart to lose money for the team to throw it away. There is no point in that.


Aside from Kawhi, most of the spurs roster were castoffs. Green was cut by the cavs, Benlineli bounced from team to team, Mills went all over the place from d-league to international before settling with the spurs, Diaw was known as an overweight headcase etc.

Tim Duncan would be smart all right: mainly because he would have done everything in his power to avoid our current situation.

Part of the reason the Lakers are in this mess is because of Kobe's ego in driving out Dwight and taking a huge contract in order to be top dog.

Duncan, on the other hand, has shown he's willing to let go of his ego for the sake of winning. Heck, he probably wouldn't have signed his extension until after the off-season.


There's 2 players that the Lakers had in their hand that would have guaranteed the Lakers 80% the stability that the Spurs have.

The Pau trade, had it been structured differently would have given us a backup to oft-injured Bynum. Marc. The way the deals was:

Pau and a 2nd round pick for Critt, Kwame, Marc Gasol, 2008 and 2010 #1s.
If they let Memphis keep the pick, and move Turiaf's expiring contract instead. Marc is as close to Duncan's abiltity and team demeanor as can get. Perfect for to complement Kobe.

Not sure if Phil woulda walked away with Marc and Pau together. And FO would have a very nice piece in return for Bynum in his prime. Possibly CP3 before the Stern takeover. Even if Phil left, adleman was better suited for that core regardless of what mike brown brought to the table.

If no CP3. The other guy was Patrick Beverly. He was the ball hawk the Lakers desperately needed. traded him to miami for a 2011 pick (ator Majok) and Cash.

Gasol/Beverley - 2 cap friendly players who give any team the anchor at the 2 key defensive positions.

present salary. Kobe (24 mil) /Pau (10 mil to stay a laker) /Marc (16 mil) /Beverley (min)/ Swaggy would be here (5mil) = 56 mil. + player-prospect from drew's trade (5 mil). with some cap leftover for depth. perenial contenders.

The other 20% of the equation was Adleman. he would have asked for Isaiah Thomas not Darius Morris. Short guards doesn't bother him. He had a speedbug in Brooks in Houston.

One thing about SA, they don't really let their key prospects go without seeing how they fit in the system first regardless of draft position. Player development. The exceptions were Scola and Dragic. Pretty impressive that a team can make those mistakes and still be champs.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:18 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
laker4life wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Tagurt wrote:



laker4life wrote:
If ownership really wanted to win, I mean really give this franchise the best chance to win, it would have brought in Phil.

Unfortunately, Jimbo went with someone else and as someone said, that move has put this team back five (5) years.


No, if the ownership wanted to win then they would not have laid off all the long time employees that Jerry Buss has entrusted the franchise to. Bringing back a 70 year old Phil with health and accountability issues is not going to solve any problems.


You do realize that it was Jerry Buss who laid off those employees?



I disagree. I put this on Jim Buss because based upon the majority of articles that I read from previous employees (ie. Shaw, Lester, etc.) Jim Buss was responsible.

Also, I have discussed with other people affiliated with the Lakers and they simply stated that Jim had a problem with Phil, etc.

Finally,based upon the comments and articles (SI scathing report, etc.) about Jim and his management style, I believe it was Jim.

Based upon all of this information, I simply concluded that it was Jim Buss.

Personally, I will never know the truth. In fact, I believe no one here knows the actual truth. However, what I can tell is that a majority of the fans who are passionate about the Lakers believe that it is Jim Buss.

In the end, I want the Laker to succeed and if Jim can do it, I will give him the credit. I have no ill will towards him.

However, if you look at this team, his "track record", the numerous articles about him, the current record of this team and other factors, there has to be some culpability here. In fact. Jim Buss recognizes it and made the statement this year that he will resign if the team does not turn around.

Jim Buss acknowledges and accepts his responsibilities for the result of this team. If he did not, he would not make that statement.

If Jim was only an owner with no involvement in the daily operation, he would say something like other owners who are not involved in the daily operation. He would say "I will carefully evaluate the performance of my employees and there will be changes". Cuban would say that. Jordan would say that. Arison would say that.

Jim say the opposite. Jim knows it and accepts it.

Hopefully, he will resign when his time is up.


You can put it on whoever you want, Dr. Buss was running the organization at that time. Nothing was done without his ok. If it makes you feel better blaming someone else, then do it. But don't expect us to think that it is the truth. And don't ignore that other teams did the same thing during the lockout, including the NBA themselves who laid off 11% of their employees.


If my son were Jim Buss I wouldn't let him make any decisions either.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:07 am    Post subject:

Our front office did make so many stupid coaching, staff, roster decisions. Just out of bad luck, or some deeper motivations?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:58 am    Post subject:

ppineda wrote:
DimesnD wrote:
How could Kobe be Jealous of the spurs? Does Kobe feel he has no ability to choose winning over money? Duncan winning rings because his less than superstar salary affords them more depth. Kobe trying to win lottery at this point. Can't be jealous if you've decided your own path.


He's jealous of the Spurs because the Spurs can draft and develop players (Kawhi, Danny Green, Patty Mills). Even Manu and Tony to some extent. I believe if Kobe saw the Lakers developing that sort of talent he would take a pay cut. But why take a paycut if you don't trust your franchise to use the cap space wisely.

I also believe that if the Spurs were in the same situation of the Lakers (not getting a good player in the draft or developing cast-offs). Duncan wouldn't take a paycut. He's too smart to lose money for the team to throw it away. There is no point in that.


And the Lakers can acquire players and win through free agency and trades.

Why does it have to be draft and develop OR acquire?

It's both. Spurs chose the route to draft and develop their core, and then use free agency and trades to surround that core. The Lakers choose the route to acquire their core, and then use the draft to surround their core.

Both franchises have been very successful.
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