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K0BEE 2.0
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 Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | They apparently believe 2015 and 2016 off seasons are the panacea to fix the team's ills. |
Good luck trying to fix it and convince FAs to come... if this season turns into a disaster.... |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| K0BEE 2.0 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | They apparently believe 2015 and 2016 off seasons are the panacea to fix the team's ills. |
Good luck trying to fix it and convince FAs to come... if this season turns into a disaster.... |
Not if the Lakers get a top 5 pick, a healthy Randle, $25m in cap space, a healthy Kobe, etc. That's how you start re-building.
If you say panic and trade away Nash/1st for say Javale McGee, you've just pissed away $12m in cap space this summer.
Let the ship burn. Then we build a new one. Don't try to put out the fire. Don't you know we get insurance ese?
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Jim99187
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | K0BEE 2.0 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | They apparently believe 2015 and 2016 off seasons are the panacea to fix the team's ills. |
Good luck trying to fix it and convince FAs to come... if this season turns into a disaster.... |
Not if the Lakers get a top 5 pick, a healthy Randle, $25m in cap space, a healthy Kobe, etc. That's how you start re-building.
If you say panic and trade away Nash/1st for say Javale McGee, you've just pissed away $12m in cap space this summer.
Let the ship burn. Then we build a new one. Don't try to put out the fire. Don't you know we get insurance ese? |
Randle and the top 5 pick are not selling points to guys like Marc Gasol, Rondo or even LMA
they are to players like R Jackson or Butler or T Harris or Wes Matthews.
even for that we will have to overpay these guys to get them.
I know the FO doesnt like to play RFA market but they have too in this case to get guys with long term potential |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Jim99187 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | K0BEE 2.0 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | They apparently believe 2015 and 2016 off seasons are the panacea to fix the team's ills. |
Good luck trying to fix it and convince FAs to come... if this season turns into a disaster.... |
Not if the Lakers get a top 5 pick, a healthy Randle, $25m in cap space, a healthy Kobe, etc. That's how you start re-building.
If you say panic and trade away Nash/1st for say Javale McGee, you've just pissed away $12m in cap space this summer.
Let the ship burn. Then we build a new one. Don't try to put out the fire. Don't you know we get insurance ese? |
Randle and the top 5 pick are not selling points to guys like Marc Gasol, Rondo or even LMA
they are to players like R Jackson or Butler or T Harris or Wes Matthews.
even for that we will have to overpay these guys to get them.
I know the FO doesnt like to play RFA market but they have too in this case to get guys with long term potential |
I get that. But the Lakers will make the pitch but I truly think the Lakers end up with 2nd tier players, which isn't a bad idea (since Kobe's contract is off the books in 2016). By 2nd tier, you have your RLopez/Asik bigs, Afflalo/Matthews wings. I would make a play at 1 RFA (don't think we have the cap space to make multiple RFA offers so we have to pick one and go with it, and since Kahwai is a pipe I go for RJax or maybe Butler). The problem this offseason was we waited on Melo/LBJ and by the end of the ordeal everyone was snatched up.
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K0BEE 2.0
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | Not if the Lakers get a top 5 pick, a healthy Randle, $25m in cap space, a healthy Kobe, etc. That's how you start re-building.
If you say panic and trade away Nash/1st for say Javale McGee, you've just pissed away $12m in cap space this summer.
Let the ship burn. Then we build a new one. Don't try to put out the fire. Don't you know we get insurance ese? |
Everything you said... sounds nice and all..... but in retrospect not everything is guaranteed the follow year..... the Top 5 pick might become a bust/ might suffer a serious injury then Randle is gonna need a little while to adjust... Kobe can break down at anytime.... that 25M in cap-space is not even guaranteed to work out..... so you tell me why we should waste a season for a lot of question mark moves? |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| K0BEE 2.0 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Not if the Lakers get a top 5 pick, a healthy Randle, $25m in cap space, a healthy Kobe, etc. That's how you start re-building.
If you say panic and trade away Nash/1st for say Javale McGee, you've just pissed away $12m in cap space this summer.
Let the ship burn. Then we build a new one. Don't try to put out the fire. Don't you know we get insurance ese? |
Everything you said... sounds nice and all..... but in retrospect not everything is guaranteed the follow year..... the Top 5 pick might become a bust/ might suffer a serious injury then Randle is gonna need a little while to adjust... Kobe can break down at anytime.... that 25M in cap-space is not even guaranteed to work out..... so you tell me why we should waste a season for a lot of question mark moves? |
No, you tell me what is the magic fix, given our lack of assets. Teams are not going to help the Lakers.
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K0BEE 2.0
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | No, you tell me what is the magic fix, given our lack of assets. Teams are not going to help the Lakers. |
In reality there is NO magic fix for either now or in the Off-season.... cool the 25M in cap-space sounds nice and all but it easily becomes useless when players start looking elsewhere...... then you are stuck either overpaying for players or giving out 1-year deals again.... doesn't really sound that exciting does it? |
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Jim99187
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | K0BEE 2.0 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | They apparently believe 2015 and 2016 off seasons are the panacea to fix the team's ills. |
Good luck trying to fix it and convince FAs to come... if this season turns into a disaster.... |
Not if the Lakers get a top 5 pick, a healthy Randle, $25m in cap space, a healthy Kobe, etc. That's how you start re-building.
If you say panic and trade away Nash/1st for say Javale McGee, you've just pissed away $12m in cap space this summer.
Let the ship burn. Then we build a new one. Don't try to put out the fire. Don't you know we get insurance ese? |
Randle and the top 5 pick are not selling points to guys like Marc Gasol, Rondo or even LMA
they are to players like R Jackson or Butler or T Harris or Wes Matthews.
even for that we will have to overpay these guys to get them.
I know the FO doesnt like to play RFA market but they have too in this case to get guys with long term potential |
I get that. But the Lakers will make the pitch but I truly think the Lakers end up with 2nd tier players, which isn't a bad idea (since Kobe's contract is off the books in 2016). By 2nd tier, you have your RLopez/Asik bigs, Afflalo/Matthews wings. I would make a play at 1 RFA (don't think we have the cap space to make multiple RFA offers so we have to pick one and go with it, and since Kahwai is a pipe I go for RJax or maybe Butler). The problem this offseason was we waited on Melo/LBJ and by the end of the ordeal everyone was snatched up. |
if they didnt go after 2nd tier last summer why do you think they will go after them next summer? |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Jim99187 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | K0BEE 2.0 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | They apparently believe 2015 and 2016 off seasons are the panacea to fix the team's ills. |
Good luck trying to fix it and convince FAs to come... if this season turns into a disaster.... |
Not if the Lakers get a top 5 pick, a healthy Randle, $25m in cap space, a healthy Kobe, etc. That's how you start re-building.
If you say panic and trade away Nash/1st for say Javale McGee, you've just pissed away $12m in cap space this summer.
Let the ship burn. Then we build a new one. Don't try to put out the fire. Don't you know we get insurance ese? |
Randle and the top 5 pick are not selling points to guys like Marc Gasol, Rondo or even LMA
they are to players like R Jackson or Butler or T Harris or Wes Matthews.
even for that we will have to overpay these guys to get them.
I know the FO doesnt like to play RFA market but they have too in this case to get guys with long term potential |
I get that. But the Lakers will make the pitch but I truly think the Lakers end up with 2nd tier players, which isn't a bad idea (since Kobe's contract is off the books in 2016). By 2nd tier, you have your RLopez/Asik bigs, Afflalo/Matthews wings. I would make a play at 1 RFA (don't think we have the cap space to make multiple RFA offers so we have to pick one and go with it, and since Kahwai is a pipe I go for RJax or maybe Butler). The problem this offseason was we waited on Melo/LBJ and by the end of the ordeal everyone was snatched up. |
if they didnt go after 2nd tier last summer why do you think they will go after them next summer? |
1. Kobe's expiring contract.
2. Rising salary cap in 2016 thanks to TV deal.
3. Management knows it cannot send out a garbage team for 3 straight years.
So the team may have like $40m in cap space in 2016, and say we pick up Afflalo for $9m, with the rising cap it'll feel more like a 6m contract.
The team will spend money this offseason on quality players, even if we miss out on the marquee ones. If they don't, then there is truly something wrong in the FO.
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| K0BEE 2.0 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Not if the Lakers get a top 5 pick, a healthy Randle, $25m in cap space, a healthy Kobe, etc. That's how you start re-building.
If you say panic and trade away Nash/1st for say Javale McGee, you've just pissed away $12m in cap space this summer.
Let the ship burn. Then we build a new one. Don't try to put out the fire. Don't you know we get insurance ese? |
Everything you said... sounds nice and all..... but in retrospect not everything is guaranteed the follow year..... the Top 5 pick might become a bust/ might suffer a serious injury then Randle is gonna need a little while to adjust... Kobe can break down at anytime.... that 25M in cap-space is not even guaranteed to work out..... so you tell me why we should waste a season for a lot of question mark moves? |
Yeah, we should only make moves that are guaranteed to work out, like trading all of our assets for an established PG and/or Center, both of whom we know we could never lose to injury or free agency. |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| K0BEE 2.0 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | No, you tell me what is the magic fix, given our lack of assets. Teams are not going to help the Lakers. |
In reality there is NO magic fix for either now or in the Off-season.... cool the 25M in cap-space sounds nice and all but it easily becomes useless when players start looking elsewhere...... then you are stuck either overpaying for players or giving out 1-year deals again.... doesn't really sound that exciting does it? |
You are making your own counterargument. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | K0BEE 2.0 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | No, you tell me what is the magic fix, given our lack of assets. Teams are not going to help the Lakers. |
In reality there is NO magic fix for either now or in the Off-season.... cool the 25M in cap-space sounds nice and all but it easily becomes useless when players start looking elsewhere...... then you are stuck either overpaying for players or giving out 1-year deals again.... doesn't really sound that exciting does it? |
You are making your own counterargument. |
(SHHH...grab your popcorn and watch the self-duel).
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K0BEE 2.0
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| The correct thing to do is try to fix something now instead of trying to hope some top FA forces his way here...... we couldn't even convince Melo to come even though he knew NY was gonna be crap this year.... that should tell you enough about our situation. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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They didn't go second tier this year because they want to chase the best defensive big they can this off season, and second tier guys just help you not get that draft pick. No pick the following year, and Kobe's salary is the placeholder for future cap space, so you can take a shot at the best big you can get (depending upon who you draft), as well as a second tier wing or guard.
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Jim99187
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | K0BEE 2.0 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | They apparently believe 2015 and 2016 off seasons are the panacea to fix the team's ills. |
Good luck trying to fix it and convince FAs to come... if this season turns into a disaster.... |
Not if the Lakers get a top 5 pick, a healthy Randle, $25m in cap space, a healthy Kobe, etc. That's how you start re-building.
If you say panic and trade away Nash/1st for say Javale McGee, you've just pissed away $12m in cap space this summer.
Let the ship burn. Then we build a new one. Don't try to put out the fire. Don't you know we get insurance ese? |
Randle and the top 5 pick are not selling points to guys like Marc Gasol, Rondo or even LMA
they are to players like R Jackson or Butler or T Harris or Wes Matthews.
even for that we will have to overpay these guys to get them.
I know the FO doesnt like to play RFA market but they have too in this case to get guys with long term potential |
I get that. But the Lakers will make the pitch but I truly think the Lakers end up with 2nd tier players, which isn't a bad idea (since Kobe's contract is off the books in 2016). By 2nd tier, you have your RLopez/Asik bigs, Afflalo/Matthews wings. I would make a play at 1 RFA (don't think we have the cap space to make multiple RFA offers so we have to pick one and go with it, and since Kahwai is a pipe I go for RJax or maybe Butler). The problem this offseason was we waited on Melo/LBJ and by the end of the ordeal everyone was snatched up. |
if they didnt go after 2nd tier last summer why do you think they will go after them next summer? |
1. Kobe's expiring contract.
2. Rising salary cap in 2016 thanks to TV deal.
3. Management knows it cannot send out a garbage team for 3 straight years.
So the team may have like $40m in cap space in 2016, and say we pick up Afflalo for $9m, with the rising cap it'll feel more like a 6m contract.
The team will spend money this offseason on quality players, even if we miss out on the marquee ones. If they don't, then there is truly something wrong in the FO. |
1. We knew kobe was expiring last summer as well. what does that have to do with us going after 2nd tier players? if anything they should have done it this summer and teach them how to win
2. Rising Salary was a known thing. everybody and there mama knew before the numbers came out. Thats why James only signed 2yr deal and not max yr
3. 3rd is assumption i believe. we dont know how long this home run theory is going to work and how long will it take to get a home run |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Jim99187 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Jim99187 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | K0BEE 2.0 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | They apparently believe 2015 and 2016 off seasons are the panacea to fix the team's ills. |
Good luck trying to fix it and convince FAs to come... if this season turns into a disaster.... |
Not if the Lakers get a top 5 pick, a healthy Randle, $25m in cap space, a healthy Kobe, etc. That's how you start re-building.
If you say panic and trade away Nash/1st for say Javale McGee, you've just pissed away $12m in cap space this summer.
Let the ship burn. Then we build a new one. Don't try to put out the fire. Don't you know we get insurance ese? |
Randle and the top 5 pick are not selling points to guys like Marc Gasol, Rondo or even LMA
they are to players like R Jackson or Butler or T Harris or Wes Matthews.
even for that we will have to overpay these guys to get them.
I know the FO doesnt like to play RFA market but they have too in this case to get guys with long term potential |
I get that. But the Lakers will make the pitch but I truly think the Lakers end up with 2nd tier players, which isn't a bad idea (since Kobe's contract is off the books in 2016). By 2nd tier, you have your RLopez/Asik bigs, Afflalo/Matthews wings. I would make a play at 1 RFA (don't think we have the cap space to make multiple RFA offers so we have to pick one and go with it, and since Kahwai is a pipe I go for RJax or maybe Butler). The problem this offseason was we waited on Melo/LBJ and by the end of the ordeal everyone was snatched up. |
if they didnt go after 2nd tier last summer why do you think they will go after them next summer? |
1. Kobe's expiring contract.
2. Rising salary cap in 2016 thanks to TV deal.
3. Management knows it cannot send out a garbage team for 3 straight years.
So the team may have like $40m in cap space in 2016, and say we pick up Afflalo for $9m, with the rising cap it'll feel more like a 6m contract.
The team will spend money this offseason on quality players, even if we miss out on the marquee ones. If they don't, then there is truly something wrong in the FO. |
1. We knew kobe was expiring last summer as well. what does that have to do with us going after 2nd tier players? if anything they should have done it this summer and teach them how to win
2. Rising Salary was a known thing. everybody and there mama knew before the numbers came out. Thats why James only signed 2yr deal and not max yr
3. 3rd is assumption i believe. we dont know how long this home run theory is going to work and how long will it take to get a home run |
I might have done it differently. I'm just trying to explain the FO's thinking and 24 outlined it above too. I can appreciate the argument that it wasn't worth it to go for 2nd tier FAs in 2014. But I doubt the FO intended the calamity we are witnessing (i.e. stealth tanking).
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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Kobe and Randle represent two slots (for the future), so with two draft choices, 25-26 mil in cap space, and a room mle, you fill the other 3 slots and some bench. Cap space nets two guys, room exception a third, draft picks are 4 and 5. Add that to kobe, Randle, Kelly, clarkson, Young, and Sacre, that's 11 players.
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DimesnD
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | K0BEE 2.0 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | They apparently believe 2015 and 2016 off seasons are the panacea to fix the team's ills. |
Good luck trying to fix it and convince FAs to come... if this season turns into a disaster.... |
Not if the Lakers get a top 5 pick, a healthy Randle, $25m in cap space, a healthy Kobe, etc. That's how you start re-building.
If you say panic and trade away Nash/1st for say Javale McGee, you've just pissed away $12m in cap space this summer.
Let the ship burn. Then we build a new one. Don't try to put out the fire. Don't you know we get insurance ese? |
I'm all in for insurance, but I have to disagree about letting the ship burn.. without taking the valuables out first. What you claim is what you claim. 
In any case, I truly believe the Lakers will trade Nash as an expiring. They made a mistake last few year by keeping Pau. And I believe the most promising partner could be Milwaukee. OJ's contract is 8 mil for 2 more years. New Bucks owners could go for a max type contract next year and upgrade at SG Next years FA class has some top scoring guards (Butler, Eric Gordon, etc) and will have to pay Jennings or his replacement at the same time.
The trade should go like this:
Nash + Sacre + future #2 for OJ and Henson.
After that try to get a pick for Hill and his 2 year deal. A contender with an injured big should bite. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | Kobe and Randle represent two slots (for the future), so with two draft choices, 25-26 mil in cap space, and a room mle, you fill the other 3 slots and some bench. Cap space nets two guys, room exception a third, draft picks are 4 and 5. Add that to kobe, Randle, Kelly, clarkson, Young, and Sacre, that's 11 players. |
Yup. I think you've nailed the 2015 plan.
1. go after "big name" (Rondo, MGasol, LMA, Love, etc.).
2. likely miss, go after plan B, split the 25m (all depending on Randle/Draft pick).
They're spending the money, be it on a top tier FA or 2 2nd tier FAs.
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Jim99187
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | | They didn't go second tier this year because they want to chase the best defensive big they can this off season, and second tier guys just help you not get that draft pick. No pick the following year, and Kobe's salary is the placeholder for future cap space, so you can take a shot at the best big you can get (depending upon who you draft), as well as a second tier wing or guard. |
so suppose u draft Okafor then what? didnt we waste 1 yr waiting for that defensive big? |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Jim99187 wrote: | | 24 wrote: | | They didn't go second tier this year because they want to chase the best defensive big they can this off season, and second tier guys just help you not get that draft pick. No pick the following year, and Kobe's salary is the placeholder for future cap space, so you can take a shot at the best big you can get (depending upon who you draft), as well as a second tier wing or guard. |
so suppose u draft Okafor then what? didnt we waste 1 yr waiting for that defensive big? |
If you want to put it that way. But then you get to spend the $ earmarked for a big on other needs (PG, SF, etc.). It's not a zero sum game. We have so many needs across the board.
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K0BEE 2.0
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | Yup. I think you've nailed the 2015 plan.
1. go after "big name" (Rondo, MGasol, LMA, Love, etc.).
2. likely miss, go after plan B, split the 25m (all depending on Randle/Draft pick).
They're spending the money, be it on a top tier FA or 2 2nd tier FAs. |
Pretty much sounds... like the Lakers are gonna act like they care about this plan.... then fall short of building any respectful roster then hinge there hopes on there Top-5 pick somehow becoming the next Tim Duncan..... what a nice really wishy wash plan this is.... almost makes me wish the Buss family sells the team. |
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KBH
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| K0BEE 2.0 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | No, you tell me what is the magic fix, given our lack of assets. Teams are not going to help the Lakers. |
In reality there is NO magic fix for either now or in the Off-season.... cool the 25M in cap-space sounds nice and all but it easily becomes useless when players start looking elsewhere...... then you are stuck either overpaying for players or giving out 1-year deals again.... doesn't really sound that exciting does it? |
So the Lakers should have no plan or strategy. Awesome. Thankfully, they aren't as clueless as some of their fan base. |
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22
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| I hope we somehow wind up with Reggie Jackson, Wes Matthews or Jimmy Butler, Karl Towns, & a re-signed Ed Davis when all is said and done lol |
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KBH
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| K0BEE 2.0 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Yup. I think you've nailed the 2015 plan.
1. go after "big name" (Rondo, MGasol, LMA, Love, etc.).
2. likely miss, go after plan B, split the 25m (all depending on Randle/Draft pick).
They're spending the money, be it on a top tier FA or 2 2nd tier FAs. |
Pretty much sounds... like the Lakers are gonna act like they care about this plan.... then fall short of building any respectful roster then hinge there hopes on there Top-5 pick somehow becoming the next Tim Duncan..... what a nice really wishy wash plan this is.... almost makes me wish the Buss family sells the team. |
Yeah. Kinda like predicting a 10-0 start (or MAYBE 8-2!) start and then saying we should lose all of our games so the Pelicans will trade the top pick for Anthony Davis. I hate wishy washy plans and thought processes, too. |
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