Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90306 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:39 pm Post subject:
Jim99187 wrote:
24 wrote:
They didn't go second tier this year because they want to chase the best defensive big they can this off season, and second tier guys just help you not get that draft pick. No pick the following year, and Kobe's salary is the placeholder for future cap space, so you can take a shot at the best big you can get (depending upon who you draft), as well as a second tier wing or guard.
so suppose u draft Okafor then what? didnt we waste 1 yr waiting for that defensive big?
Not at all. There are other guys you may want too, but you leave the flexibility. What if they draft Mudiay? And Kevin Love isn't a complete no go either. The thing is, if you use the cap room now, you kiss the top 5 pick goodbye, and you cut down your options for free agents. All so you can get a guy now of the caliber you can get next year. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144462 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:50 pm Post subject:
Jim99187 wrote:
24 wrote:
They didn't go second tier this year because they want to chase the best defensive big they can this off season, and second tier guys just help you not get that draft pick. No pick the following year, and Kobe's salary is the placeholder for future cap space, so you can take a shot at the best big you can get (depending upon who you draft), as well as a second tier wing or guard.
so suppose u draft Okafor then what? didnt we waste 1 yr waiting for that defensive big?
No, Okafor won't be NBA ready. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144462 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:52 pm Post subject:
Jim99187 wrote:
1. We knew kobe was expiring last summer as well. what does that have to do with us going after 2nd tier players? if anything they should have done it this summer and teach them how to win
2. Rising Salary was a known thing. everybody and there mama knew before the numbers came out. Thats why James only signed 2yr deal and not max yr
3. 3rd is assumption i believe. we dont know how long this home run theory is going to work and how long will it take to get a home run
The point is that Kobe's contract expires after next season, it doesn't matter when we knew that, it matters when we get $25 mil plus in cap space. If we sign some 2nd tier players this past offseason we have no cap space in 2015, and there were none attractive enough to warrant that. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Are you saying the front office's performance has been fine the last 3 years or so?
I have no issues. I was thrilled that they went for it all with Nash and Howard and tried getting one more title out of Kobe. When that didn't work, rebuilding would have to be the next step, and that is where they are going. I have been through that before.
I have too but not with a nit wit making the decisions. Nobody knew Nash would play 10 healthy games or whatever but what we did know is that he needs the ball and so does Kobe. I blame the FO for trading two good picks for what amounted to a chemistry experiment between Nash/Kobe. It's the same thing with Lin. They dont understand that you can't have Kobe playing with a ball dominant PG and that is basic team building 101. It would've been less of a risk if the player they traded for was younger and played defense, then maybe it's worth going thru the inevitable struggle for touches that has occured with 90% of good offensive players Kobe's ever played with.
They should've hired PJ and built around Dwight. You don't offer Kobe a 3rd of the salary cap obviously. Those were major mistakes. We wouldn't be in this mess right now if they handled those 3 decisions properly and these are after the Nash mistake. We're not just rebuilding were seeing the embodiment of many bad decisions made in the last 3 years or so. We're complaining because Jim Buss is gawd awful and doesn't deserve to be able to swing and miss anymore. 8 strikes and your out. _________________ Championships since NBA/ABA merger in '76: Lakers 10 - Celtics 5 - Clippers 0 --- Phil Jackson 10 - Doc Rivers 1
They didn't go second tier this year because they want to chase the best defensive big they can this off season, and second tier guys just help you not get that draft pick. No pick the following year, and Kobe's salary is the placeholder for future cap space, so you can take a shot at the best big you can get (depending upon who you draft), as well as a second tier wing or guard.
so suppose u draft Okafor then what? didnt we waste 1 yr waiting for that defensive big?
No, Okafor won't be NBA ready.
Correct. Even if we got Okafor, he would take a few years to reach his potential... It's going to be a long ride, buckle up... _________________ Lakers need to build a freaking team !
They didn't go second tier this year because they want to chase the best defensive big they can this off season, and second tier guys just help you not get that draft pick. No pick the following year, and Kobe's salary is the placeholder for future cap space, so you can take a shot at the best big you can get (depending upon who you draft), as well as a second tier wing or guard.
so suppose u draft Okafor then what? didnt we waste 1 yr waiting for that defensive big?
No, Okafor won't be NBA ready.
nobody we draft is going to be ready next yr. thats why i want us to go after butler, jackson, T Harris even if they are RFA's
Joined: 17 May 2013 Posts: 10949 Location: I wish I knew
Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:48 pm Post subject:
Jim99187 wrote:
nobody we draft is going to be ready next yr.
That's really funny... especially since I have seen you people talk about how sucking this year will help us get a good player that will help us for next year..... the truth is sucking this year doesn't mean we won't suck again next year or the year after..... that is why you always play your cards for ...now and not hope something falls in your laps especially since everyone knows the current Buss family has no track record of turning the ship around.
That's really funny... especially since I have seen you people talk about how sucking this year will help us get a good player that will help us for next year..... the truth is sucking this year doesn't mean we won't suck again next year or the year after..... that is why you always play your cards for ...now and not hope something falls in your laps especially since everyone knows the current Buss family has no track record of turning the ship around.
what u talking about. if he is not helping next yr doesn't mean he is a bust.
he will help us long term in range of 3-15yrs.....
I see Okafor as Cousins + little more athletic ability.
Joined: 17 May 2013 Posts: 10949 Location: I wish I knew
Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:56 pm Post subject:
Jim99187 wrote:
what u talking about. if he is not helping next yr doesn't mean he is a bust.
he will help us long term in range of 3-15yrs.....
I see Okafor as Cousins + little more athletic ability.
Sorry to break it to you... but the Lakers have enough project/raw players and don't need to get another player to develop.... and especially the Lakers can't afford to get anymore raw players when Kobe's contract is still on the books.
what u talking about. if he is not helping next yr doesn't mean he is a bust.
he will help us long term in range of 3-15yrs.....
I see Okafor as Cousins + little more athletic ability.
Sorry to break it to you... but the Lakers have enough project/raw players and don't need to get another player to develop.... and especially the Lakers can't afford to get anymore raw players when Kobe's contract is still on the books.
WTH, who is it? done of the yr Randle and Clarkson. who else is raw?
go see Magic, Bucks, Boston and Utah roster and then u will realize how many young talented players they have.
the earlier u give up on kobe get that 6th the easier the pain will be. just need to come to that realization 1st.
what u talking about. if he is not helping next yr doesn't mean he is a bust.
he will help us long term in range of 3-15yrs.....
I see Okafor as Cousins + little more athletic ability.
Sorry to break it to you... but the Lakers have enough project/raw players and don't need to get another player to develop.... and especially the Lakers can't afford to get anymore raw players when Kobe's contract is still on the books.
WTH, who is it? done of the yr Randle and Clarkson. who else is raw?
go see Magic, Bucks, Boston and Utah roster and then u will realize how many young talented players they have.
the earlier u give up on kobe get that 6th the easier the pain will be. just need to come to that realization 1st.
When you have an indecisive FO you will simply have the team in front of us.
what u talking about. if he is not helping next yr doesn't mean he is a bust.
he will help us long term in range of 3-15yrs.....
I see Okafor as Cousins + little more athletic ability.
Sorry to break it to you... but the Lakers have enough project/raw players and don't need to get another player to develop.... and especially the Lakers can't afford to get anymore raw players when Kobe's contract is still on the books.
That's a little counter intuitive
with that huge boat anchor of a contract, about all the Lakers can afford is young raw players that don't cost much. _________________ LBJ + AD = More rings
Never argue with a fool - listeners can't tell you apart
Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI
stephen a smith suggests that kobe requests a trade outta LAL. If that happens, it wld reset the entire franchise to unknown levels...
"with what Jim Buss has done to this team"
Ouch _________________ LBJ + AD = More rings
Never argue with a fool - listeners can't tell you apart
Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI
Joined: 17 May 2013 Posts: 10949 Location: I wish I knew
Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:33 am Post subject:
If no changes are made by 2 loses against the Hawks/HOU.... mods should feel free to lock this thread up..... I highly doubt the Lakers do anything major if the record is 1-11 if there gonna do something to stay afloat they probably would have done so by now.....
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144462 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:37 am Post subject:
laker4life wrote:
Jim99187 wrote:
K0BEE 2.0 wrote:
Jim99187 wrote:
what u talking about. if he is not helping next yr doesn't mean he is a bust.
he will help us long term in range of 3-15yrs.....
I see Okafor as Cousins + little more athletic ability.
Sorry to break it to you... but the Lakers have enough project/raw players and don't need to get another player to develop.... and especially the Lakers can't afford to get anymore raw players when Kobe's contract is still on the books.
WTH, who is it? done of the yr Randle and Clarkson. who else is raw?
go see Magic, Bucks, Boston and Utah roster and then u will realize how many young talented players they have.
the earlier u give up on kobe get that 6th the easier the pain will be. just need to come to that realization 1st.
When you have an indecisive FO you will simply have the team in front of us.
We are lost and we have such a long way to go.
I think that indecisive is the last word I would use to describe this FO. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
stephen a smith suggests that kobe requests a trade outta LAL. If that happens, it wld reset the entire franchise to unknown levels...
Stephen A Smith doesn't know what he is talking about. But he does know how to take advantage of a situation to get his name out there, and often does so loudly. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
If no changes are made by 2 loses against the Hawks/HOU.... mods should feel free to lock this thread up..... I highly doubt the Lakers do anything major if the record is 1-11 if there gonna do something to stay afloat they probably would have done so by now.....
I don't think the FO is as reactionary as you or Ramona Shelburne. They aren't going to let two games determine their path going forward because they understand the long game. There's no difference between 1-9, 3-9 or 1-11 in the big picture because the big picture is there is no single move this team can make to return it back to relevance, and they aren't going to mortgage the future to appease impatient fans and NBA writers.
They apparently believe 2015 and 2016 off seasons are the panacea to fix the team's ills.
Good luck trying to fix it and convince FAs to come... if this season turns into a disaster....
Not if the Lakers get a top 5 pick, a healthy Randle, $25m in cap space, a healthy Kobe, etc. That's how you start re-building.
If you say panic and trade away Nash/1st for say Javale McGee, you've just pissed away $12m in cap space this summer.
Let the ship burn. Then we build a new one. Don't try to put out the fire. Don't you know we get insurance ese?
Randle and the top 5 pick are not selling points to guys like Marc Gasol, Rondo or even LMA
they are to players like R Jackson or Butler or T Harris or Wes Matthews.
even for that we will have to overpay these guys to get them.
I know the FO doesnt like to play RFA market but they have too in this case to get guys with long term potential
I get that. But the Lakers will make the pitch but I truly think the Lakers end up with 2nd tier players, which isn't a bad idea (since Kobe's contract is off the books in 2016). By 2nd tier, you have your RLopez/Asik bigs, Afflalo/Matthews wings. I would make a play at 1 RFA (don't think we have the cap space to make multiple RFA offers so we have to pick one and go with it, and since Kahwai is a pipe I go for RJax or maybe Butler). The problem this offseason was we waited on Melo/LBJ and by the end of the ordeal everyone was snatched up.
if they didnt go after 2nd tier last summer why do you think they will go after them next summer?
3. Management knows it cannot send out a garbage team for 3 straight years.
The team will spend money this offseason on quality players, even if we miss out on the marquee ones. If they don't, then there is truly something wrong in the FO.
Aren't you basically agreeing with Shelbourne's argument, then?
That the Lakers can't be bad for too long so they'll have to make some moves. The only difference is that she's saying the Lakers can't be bad for two straight years, and you're saying that the Lakers can't be bad for three straight years.
They didn't go second tier this year because they want to chase the best defensive big they can this off season, and second tier guys just help you not get that draft pick. No pick the following year, and Kobe's salary is the placeholder for future cap space, so you can take a shot at the best big you can get (depending upon who you draft), as well as a second tier wing or guard.
so suppose u draft Okafor then what? didnt we waste 1 yr waiting for that defensive big?
No, Okafor won't be NBA ready.
nobody we draft is going to be ready next yr. thats why i want us to go after butler, jackson, T Harris even if they are RFA's
Orlando would match. Butler and Jackson would be excellent targets. OKC and Chicago are historically frugal too, so stealing them might not be too hard. Maybe $8 million for Jackson and $12 for Butler?
Are you saying the front office's performance has been fine the last 3 years or so?
I have no issues. I was thrilled that they went for it all with Nash and Howard and tried getting one more title out of Kobe. When that didn't work, rebuilding would have to be the next step, and that is where they are going. I have been through that before.
I have too but not with a nit wit making the decisions. Nobody knew Nash would play 10 healthy games or whatever but what we did know is that he needs the ball and so does Kobe. I blame the FO for trading two good picks for what amounted to a chemistry experiment between Nash/Kobe. It's the same thing with Lin. They dont understand that you can't have Kobe playing with a ball dominant PG and that is basic team building 101. It would've been less of a risk if the player they traded for was younger and played defense, then maybe it's worth going thru the inevitable struggle for touches that has occured with 90% of good offensive players Kobe's ever played with.
They should've hired PJ and built around Dwight. You don't offer Kobe a 3rd of the salary cap obviously. Those were major mistakes. We wouldn't be in this mess right now if they handled those 3 decisions properly and these are after the Nash mistake. We're not just rebuilding were seeing the embodiment of many bad decisions made in the last 3 years or so. We're complaining because Jim Buss is gawd awful and doesn't deserve to be able to swing and miss anymore. 8 strikes and your out.
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