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tox
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 Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| LakersRGolden wrote: | | tox wrote: | Deng: 51.4%, 31.5%
eFG%: with Clarkson, without Clarkson
This was absolutely staggering to me. So apparently when Deng plays next to Clarkson, he's (bleep) garbage. Otherwise, he's actually very competent on the offensive end.
Deng is a guy who, especially at the 3, needs everything to be spoonfed to him. So we can see the clear detriment of Clarkson's ISO tendencies on his numbers. Which makes sense. Clarkson's style of offense is good for him and Lou and for cleanup bigs like Tarik (to a lesser extent Nance). But a guy like Deng? Yeesh.
This is just mindblowing to me because it suggests we might have gotten (close to) the Deng we expected if we just never let Deng play with Clarkson. |
Am I tripping, or do you have the numbers reversed? |
Yep, I typoed that one bad. Thanks haha |
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TheBlackMamba
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Joined: 23 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | Deng: 51.4%, 31.5%
eFG%: with Clarkson, without Clarkson
This was absolutely staggering to me. So apparently when Deng plays next to Clarkson, he's (bleep) garbage. Otherwise, he's actually very competent on the offensive end.
Deng is a guy who, especially at the 3, needs everything to be spoonfed to him. So we can see the clear detriment of Clarkson's ISO tendencies on his numbers. Which makes sense. Clarkson's style of offense is good for him and Lou and for cleanup bigs like Tarik (to a lesser extent Nance). But a guy like Deng? Yeesh.
This is just mindblowing to me because it suggests we might have gotten (close to) the Deng we expected if we just never let Deng play with Clarkson. |
And played him more at the 4. I still think Deng's contract value is salvageable (a lot better than Moz in that regard) because 1) he seemed to have come into camp out of shape this season for whatever reason, and never quite recovered from that, 2) he's the type of player that needs a solid offensive system in place, so he has easier opportunities to score within the flow of the offense, and can get "spoonfed" like you said, 3) he was never put in a position to succeed this year, whether it be all the young, inexperienced players he had to share the floor with, the skillsets not meshing, injuries and constant lineup shuffling, etc. He's not the type of player that can create something out of nothing, and too often this season he was called upon to do that in our disjointed offense. That's just not his game.
Hopefully when we have players that can fit the system Luke's trying to implement better, Deng can go back to the super role player that he was on other teams and be more successful playing his natural game. |
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Gimme_the_rock
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Location: Looking outta the window, watching the asphalt grow ...
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Gimme_the_rock wrote: | | tox wrote: | Deng: 51.4%, 31.5%
eFG%: with Clarkson, without Clarkson
This was absolutely staggering to me. So apparently when Deng plays next to Clarkson, he's (bleep) garbage. Otherwise, he's actually very competent on the offensive end.
Deng is a guy who, especially at the 3, needs everything to be spoonfed to him. So we can see the clear detriment of Clarkson's ISO tendencies on his numbers. Which makes sense. Clarkson's style of offense is good for him and Lou and for cleanup bigs like Tarik (to a lesser extent Nance). But a guy like Deng? Yeesh.
This is just mindblowing to me because it suggests we might have gotten (close to) the Deng we expected if we just never let Deng play with Clarkson. |
Wow. That's just staggering. We're our analytics department on this one? |
You just talked to him.  |
I know, right? It just caught me off guard that our staff wasn't all over this considering the sizable investment they made and since the team's analytics game was supposed to get a shot in the arm with Luke coming aboard. With all the stats heads running about with twitter accounts, there's fewer places to hide
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tox
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Gimme_the_rock wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Gimme_the_rock wrote: | | tox wrote: | Deng: 51.4%, 31.5%
eFG%: with Clarkson, without Clarkson
This was absolutely staggering to me. So apparently when Deng plays next to Clarkson, he's (bleep) garbage. Otherwise, he's actually very competent on the offensive end.
Deng is a guy who, especially at the 3, needs everything to be spoonfed to him. So we can see the clear detriment of Clarkson's ISO tendencies on his numbers. Which makes sense. Clarkson's style of offense is good for him and Lou and for cleanup bigs like Tarik (to a lesser extent Nance). But a guy like Deng? Yeesh.
This is just mindblowing to me because it suggests we might have gotten (close to) the Deng we expected if we just never let Deng play with Clarkson. |
Wow. That's just staggering. We're our analytics department on this one? |
You just talked to him. |
I know, right? It just caught me off guard that our staff wasn't all over this considering the sizable investment they made and since the team's analytics game was supposed to get a shot in the arm with Luke coming aboard. With all the stats heads running about with twitter accounts, there's fewer places to hide |
The reality is this isn't really advanced analytics. It's basic analysis that can be obfuscated by a lot of variables. And it's unclear how to use this information to influence coaching.
So we can say for a fact: Luol Deng is HORRIBLE when he plays next to Jordan Clarkson. You can dig into a bit more and find out that Deng is fine with Lou but no Clarkson, and that Deng is worse with Clarkson and no Lou. So it's probably not Lou's fault but rather Clarkson's.
But what do you do with this information? In November, you didn't have enough data to tell Luke.. "Hey man, if you want to win, don't put Deng and Clarkson together. Deng is just horrible." And then by late January, we put Deng on the bench because we wanted to start Ingram, so again Luke can't use this info (at that point, Deng being bad is probably good for us for the tank).
Then there's December. The stats in December are staggering. Deng put up 62.5% eFG% in 262 minutes sans Clarkson. 34.9% in 240 minutes with Clarkson. That's ridiculous. Even if you chalk up that 62.5% to some hot shooting, it's still a huge disparity from 34.9%, and it's not a small sample size. So maybe Luke could have kept them separate to minimize the team's losing... but we were depleted by injuries. So what do we do? To be honest, I'm not sure how the organization should even have used this data.
To me, and it's the reason why I posted this on the Clarkson thread, this speaks to a massive shortcoming of Clarkson's game. Both Deng and Russell see their percentages drop significantly next to Clarkson, and I don't think that's a surprise. His ball pounding tendencies are bad for rhythm shooters. Take JC on the court without Lou (who could get guys good shots), and three of our perimeter players -- Nick, Russell, Deng -- see drops in percentages, the latter two having big drops. (Ingram's stats go up but that's noise due to his great play since Lou's trade.)
So I'm not sure what our coaching staff could have done with this info. I do know it sours me (even more) on Clarkson's future with the Lakers, especially as a starter. Though Young still shoots pretty well next to Clarkson (despite a small drop off) so maybe that works next year for our bench. |
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nickuku
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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Ugh I didn't think it was this bad.
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rogers49
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | As the Starting PG (5 games)
37.5 minutes
16.4 points
3.8 assists
3.0 rebounds
0.6 steals
2.6 turnovers
45.9 TS% |
TS% is horrible. |
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nash
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| rogers49 wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | As the Starting PG (5 games)
37.5 minutes
16.4 points
3.8 assists
3.0 rebounds
0.6 steals
2.6 turnovers
45.9 TS% |
TS% is horrible. |
Its general problem with our PG position, before the all star game Russell had .50 TS% playing with a stable lineup, post all star he got better to a respectable .55 TS% and Clarkson regressed from his .52 TS% to this abysmal number.
Guys leading us after the all star game in TS% are
Zubac .57
Nance .57
Russell .548
Ingram .541
Julius .530
Basically our young core.
Last edited by nash on Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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LakerLanny
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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Defense?
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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So...tonight's gonna help his TS%.  |
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BobbyB
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| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Clarkson keep playing like this increase your trade value! |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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Really nice 3 point shooting game tonight. What happened to his 3 this year?
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Pretty funny seeing people bag on JC on a career night..i also wonder with his 3s. Something tells me its luke effect. |
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City_Dawg
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| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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Game ball.
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*sighs*
!... |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| City_Dawg wrote: | | Game ball. |
Yessir. |
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tox
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| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Pretty funny seeing people bag on JC on a career night..i also wonder with his 3s. Something tells me its luke effect. |
I stand by my criticisms in the 3rd. But in addition to that great shooting, he legit played well in the 4th and OT. I've no problem with praising him when it's deserved.
I really hope this gets his 3 point stroke back. What has me slightly interested about today's performance is he hit a lot of pullup 3s. He's statistically been poor at those. An anomaly or a positive omen? |
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driver
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| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| JC found his 3pter tonight. Now lock it up, put it in your pocket, don't lose this (bleep) again. I expect more. |
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Practice
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| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Dude was unconscious tonight. |
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danzag
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| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| He played a lot better during the 4th and OT. Not forcing things |
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panamaniac
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| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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#UnsustainablyGood
j/k... very good game for JC tonight.
Last edited by panamaniac on Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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tnell
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| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Great showing from JC tonight. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Nice game, JC! |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Pretty funny seeing people bag on JC on a career night..i also wonder with his 3s. Something tells me its luke effect. |
I stand by my criticisms in the 3rd. But in addition to that great shooting, he legit played well in the 4th and OT. I've no problem with praising him when it's deserved.
I really hope this gets his 3 point stroke back. What has me slightly interested about today's performance is he hit a lot of pullup 3s. He's statistically been poor at those. An anomaly or a positive omen? |
Anomaly IMO. And JC getting criticized in the GD threads when he was 7-13 I felt was harsh. Yes, he got lucky on some of those made baskets but he was hot thats what happens when you're hot.
His shot looks funky to me. I'll have to go back and see if it looked the same way before this season. I can't tell if he's generally a poor shooter or he has just gotten Walton'd this season. |
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anpherknee
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| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| JEIGH SEEEEEE |
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J.C. Smith
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| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| New career high tonight. Nice job by Clarkson. |
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pio2u
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| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| 13-20 FG's; da boy waz on FI! |
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