Official Jordan Clarkson Thread
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MJST
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:14 am    Post subject:

Outspoken wrote:
MJST wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
BynumForThree wrote:
I think it's always been clear that Clarkson has a role player career ahead of him with his current skillset. A point guard that can't shoot, defend or run an offense has no place starting for a Playoff team. Clarkson is a good gunner off the bench but the only teams he'd be starting for are lottery teams.


I would generally agree with this.

I think Clarkson could have a role in the NBA like a Jamaal Crawford, Jason Terry, etc. That is a guy you bring off the bench to score and you don't expect him to do much else.

Certainly at times Clarkson's athletic ability is pretty special, he is almost Westbrook-like at times, I am not sure that is something we should be so quick to give up but we need to find the right role for him.


He has the right role. Bench 6th man.


He's a starter though. So I do agree, he has his rightful role, but you accidentally got DLO and JC mixed up, as 6th man pertains to DLO right now.


The 6th man doesn't pertain to Dlo.

Walton already said that Russell is the starting point guard going forward and the only reason that Clarkson starts is because Luke wants to see what he does in a traditional lineup and because the Lakers aren't in a playoff spot.

Essentially Luke said if he wanted to win, Russell would start at the 1, but because that isn't an option, Clarkson is.

That's not a compliment to Clarkson. Luke knows what his role is and should be.
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GoldenThroat
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:14 am    Post subject:

Do you guys really think that NBA coaches go around giving players the choice of whether or not they start or come off of the bench? Really?

I can't seem to find evidence that Thomas Robinson wasn't given a choice about coming off of the bench either.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:17 am    Post subject:

Is DLO starting or coming off the bench? If he's coming off the bench, doesn't that make him a 6th man right now? So if you're talking about someone being in the right role RIGHT NOW, how would that pertain to a player that isn't in that role RIGHT NOW?

Your comment simply didn't pertain to JC, seeing he isn't in that role RIGHT NOW.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:25 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Outspoken wrote:
MJST wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
BynumForThree wrote:
I think it's always been clear that Clarkson has a role player career ahead of him with his current skillset. A point guard that can't shoot, defend or run an offense has no place starting for a Playoff team. Clarkson is a good gunner off the bench but the only teams he'd be starting for are lottery teams.


I would generally agree with this.

I think Clarkson could have a role in the NBA like a Jamaal Crawford, Jason Terry, etc. That is a guy you bring off the bench to score and you don't expect him to do much else.

Certainly at times Clarkson's athletic ability is pretty special, he is almost Westbrook-like at times, I am not sure that is something we should be so quick to give up but we need to find the right role for him.


He has the right role. Bench 6th man.


He's a starter though. So I do agree, he has his rightful role, but you accidentally got DLO and JC mixed up, as 6th man pertains to DLO right now.


The 6th man doesn't pertain to Dlo.

Walton already said that Russell is the starting point guard going forward and the only reason that Clarkson starts is because Luke wants to see what he does in a traditional lineup and because the Lakers aren't in a playoff spot.

Essentially Luke said if he wanted to win, Russell would start at the 1, but because that isn't an option, Clarkson is.

That's not a compliment to Clarkson. Luke knows what his role is and should be.


link? I do not recall any of the bolded.
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nash
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:51 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
My "true colors" as it pertains to Russell are that I think the team is significantly better with him starting, which is backed by objective data, and Jordan Clarkson is not at all a PG in anything bearing resemblance to the system that Luke has said that we want to be running.

Furthermore, I'm gonna address BS like that "classic ownage" nonsense when I see it.


But when we look at our best net rating/48 lineups with at least 20 minutes Russell is the PG in about 1/3 of them (3 out of 10 of those with positive net rating) and he was a nonfactor running with bench players so I don't feel like he is one making the difference above other players.

I'm not taking anything from him, but I don't buy the concept that his is the main difference maker on our team, at least not backed by Objective Data.


Last edited by nash on Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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GoldenThroat
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:55 am    Post subject:

nash wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
My "true colors" as it pertains to Russell are that I think the team is significantly better with him starting, which is backed by objective data, and Jordan Clarkson is not at all a PG in anything bearing resemblance to the system that Luke has said that we want to be running.

Furthermore, I'm gonna address BS like that "classic ownage" nonsense when I see it.


But when we look at our best net rating/48 lineups with at least 20 minutes Russell is the PG in about 1/3 of them (3 out of 10 of those with positive net rating) and he was a nonfactor running with bench players so I don't feel like he is one making the difference above other players.

I'm not taking anything from him, but I don't buy the concept that his is the main difference maker on our team, at least not backed by objective data.


Lou Williams was the PG in the other 7. And he's been significantly better with the starters than anyone else at PG.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:57 am    Post subject:

defense wrote:
adkindo wrote:
BynumForThree wrote:
I think it's always been clear that Clarkson has a role player career ahead of him with his current skillset. A point guard that can't shoot, defend or run an offense has no place starting for a Playoff team. Clarkson is a good gunner off the bench but the only teams he'd be starting for are lottery teams.



I do not agree anything has been clear, but an opinion that you and many others hold. I also disagree calling him a poor shooter and feel it is inaccurate, he has struggled from 3 this year shooting 32%, but he was shooting 35% last year, and he has shown a solid mid-range shot. None of this makes his a great shooter.....but it does not represent someone that cant shoot.


Clarkson is definitely not a good 3 point shooter. His career percentage is .331% and this season so far hes at .319. For someone who takes more than 4 3's a game that is horrendous. There are 50+ NBA players that are shooting over .385% this season. 35% is below average imo and .347 was his best so far.

His mid-range game imo is actually pretty good but he doesn't use it nearly enough.


by that standard, DLO is a poor shooter also, and he is often referred to as a good shooter on this site.
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nash
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:01 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:

by that standard, DLO is a poor shooter also, and he is often referred to as a good shooter on this site.


I'd call it eye test, the form looks good, it is not flat, it is just like Ingram overall as a player, it passes the eye test even if we don't have stats confirming it. Dlo is not a good shooter, his TS% is not good, but he looks like a good shooter so I believe he is going to improve his stats the same way Ingram looks like a NBA player and he is improving since day one.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:04 pm    Post subject:

nash wrote:
adkindo wrote:

by that standard, DLO is a poor shooter also, and he is often referred to as a good shooter on this site.


I'd call it eye test, the form looks good, it is not flat, it is just like Ingram overall as a player, it passes the eye test even if we don't have stats confirming it. Dlo is not a good shooter, his TS% is not good, but he looks like a good shooter so I believe he is going to improve his stats the same way Ingram looks like an NBA player and he is improving since day one.


reminds me of...

Quote:
“If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell”

― Carl Sandburg


I will stick to how often the ball goes in the basket.
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nash
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:12 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:

I will stick to how often the ball goes in the basket.


That is the sane thing to do, unfortunately it just helps understanding the present and we have to use a bit of intuition to project the future.


Last edited by nash on Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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GoldenThroat
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:15 pm    Post subject:

Russell is a good catch & shoot guy from 3pt range (38.2%) on 2.9 attempts per game, and below average from 31.1% off of the dribble, on 2.8 attempts per game.

By contrast, Clarkson shoots 2.3 catch & shoot 3's per game on 33.1%, and 1.7 off the dribble 3's at 30.5%.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:17 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:

Lou Williams was the PG in the other 7. And he's been significantly better with the starters than anyone else at PG.


Lou was a huge difference maker, no question about that. Even if most would agree he is not a PG, he used to do a really better job feeding our bigs than the players supposed to run the show, I can bring a ton of stats to illustrate it.

Dlo makes good use of Nick Young. Since he is not adept to break down the defense or attack the basket a shooter available around him is absolutely necessary when he is not shooting it himself.


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tox
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:18 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Russell is a good catch & shoot guy from 3pt range (38.2%) on 2.9 attempts per game, and below average from 31.1% off of the dribble, on 2.8 attempts per game.

By contrast, Clarkson shoots 2.3 catch & shoot 3's per game on 33.1%, and 1.7 off the dribble 3's at 30.5%.
Another way of stratifying it is that Clarkson is an elite "wide open" 3 point shooter (45%+ last I checked), and absolutely horrendous on all other 3s. Russell is kinda average on all kinds of 3s, except tightly contested ones where he's below average.

To me there's no question Russell is the better shooter, although his wide open 3FG% (37%) leaves a lot to be desired. Anyways, this gives a good reason as to why Clarkson is so bad at 3s this season versus last: he doesn't have Russell setting him up like he did last year.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:33 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Russell is a good catch & shoot guy from 3pt range (38.2%) on 2.9 attempts per game, and below average from 31.1% off of the dribble, on 2.8 attempts per game.

By contrast, Clarkson shoots 2.3 catch & shoot 3's per game on 33.1%, and 1.7 off the dribble 3's at 30.5%.


It really was not about Clarkson vs. Russell, defense laid out parameters of a bad shooter which Russel fell within....and i was just pointing out that many LG posters feel he is a good shooter.
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defense
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:26 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Russell is a good catch & shoot guy from 3pt range (38.2%) on 2.9 attempts per game, and below average from 31.1% off of the dribble, on 2.8 attempts per game.

By contrast, Clarkson shoots 2.3 catch & shoot 3's per game on 33.1%, and 1.7 off the dribble 3's at 30.5%.


It really was not about Clarkson vs. Russell, defense laid out parameters of a bad shooter which Russel fell within....and i was just pointing out that many LG posters feel he is a good shooter.


Please don't lump me in with other posters. Russell is not a good shooter imo yet... Here are some details that I do factor in though. Russell has a shot that is better suited to shooting a higher percentage than Clarkson. Russell is already a better shooter than Clarkson at a younger age (marginal but still better). Russell or anyone else being bad doesn't make it ok for Clarkson to be bad.

I simply replied to you and others who claim Clarkson isn't a bad shooter. He is a bad shooter and has been consistently in his short career.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:46 pm    Post subject:

defense wrote:
Russell is not a good shooter imo yet... Here are some details that I do factor in though. Russell has a shot that is better suited to shooting a higher percentage than Clarkson.


Agreed
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:17 pm    Post subject:

defense wrote:
adkindo wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Russell is a good catch & shoot guy from 3pt range (38.2%) on 2.9 attempts per game, and below average from 31.1% off of the dribble, on 2.8 attempts per game.

By contrast, Clarkson shoots 2.3 catch & shoot 3's per game on 33.1%, and 1.7 off the dribble 3's at 30.5%.


It really was not about Clarkson vs. Russell, defense laid out parameters of a bad shooter which Russel fell within....and i was just pointing out that many LG posters feel he is a good shooter.


Please don't lump me in with other posters. Russell is not a good shooter imo yet... Here are some details that I do factor in though. Russell has a shot that is better suited to shooting a higher percentage than Clarkson. Russell is already a better shooter than Clarkson at a younger age (marginal but still better). Russell or anyone else being bad doesn't make it ok for Clarkson to be bad.

I simply replied to you and others who claim Clarkson isn't a bad shooter. He is a bad shooter and has been consistently in his short career.


I really do not even know what you mean....I was telling GT why I brought up DLo.....never said what you thought of Russell.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:11 pm    Post subject:

I'm glad we are gonna get to see JC at point and D'angelo off ball shooting guard today. Let's see how that goes.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:16 pm    Post subject:

Outspoken wrote:
I'm glad we are gonna get to see JC at point and D'angelo off ball shooting guard today. Let's see how that goes.


That may be a better supporting cast for Zubac since there is not a shot Nick Young wouldn't take
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:17 pm    Post subject:

nash wrote:
Outspoken wrote:
I'm glad we are gonna get to see JC at point and D'angelo off ball shooting guard today. Let's see how that goes.


That may be a better supporting cast for Zubac since there is not a shot Nick Young wouldn't take


Lol
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:15 pm    Post subject:

Clarkson is averaging 17.1 shots in March

.435 2p
.281 3p
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tox
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:15 pm    Post subject:

Seems like you can pencil in JC for 19 points on 50% TS% as a starter...

Didn't catch the game so I'm not sure if they were good passes or if he just fed the hot hand, but 6 assists is nice to see regardless.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:17 pm    Post subject:

I don't know I like how Clarkson's been playing last couple of games.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:29 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
Seems like you can pencil in JC for 19 points on 50% TS% as a starter...

Didn't catch the game so I'm not sure if they were good passes or if he just fed the hot hand, but 6 assists is nice to see regardless.


He distributed pretty well. The Cavs were trapping the PnR, and while it took him a little while, he hit Zubac on a couple of short rolls, made a nice cross court read on one of Russell's 3's (nice screen by Randle on that too), hit Nance w/a pocket pass, and hit Nwaba for a great lob where it was actually a bad idea, but the pass was perfectly located so it didn't matter.

He was pretty chucky at times, but that's to be expected.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:30 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
tox wrote:
Seems like you can pencil in JC for 19 points on 50% TS% as a starter...

Didn't catch the game so I'm not sure if they were good passes or if he just fed the hot hand, but 6 assists is nice to see regardless.


He distributed pretty well. The Cavs were trapping the PnR, and while it took him a little while, he hit Zubac on a couple of short rolls, made a nice cross court read on one of Russell's 3's (nice screen by Randle on that too), hit Nance w/a pocket pass, and hit Nwaba for a great lob where it was actually a bad idea, but the pass was perfectly located so it didn't matter.

He was pretty chucky at times, but that's to be expected.

That sounds... unrecognizable
Not the chucky part, the making read parts.
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