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tox
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 Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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Clarkson, post-ASB (i.e. post-Lou), per-36
As a starter:
16.6 points (51.1% TS%), 4.0 assists (1.73 ATR), 3.4 rebounds, 0.4 steals
As a bench player:
22.5 points (55.0% TS%), 4.2 assists (1.5 ATR), 3.6 rebounds, 1.8 steals
Note, on the bench he couldn't make anything from 3 (24.4%) which deflated his averages... but he also feasted off the bench against the Sixers without a real rim protector so we can call it even. |
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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I think Clarkson is hard to evaluate because I'm not sure he's been put in a consistent role since his rookie season. Seems he's best at PG and the longer he's remained in that role, the better he seems to do. It's too bad we only put him at the starting PG spot so late in the year.
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | Clarkson, post-ASB (i.e. post-Lou), per-36
As a starter:
16.6 points (51.1% TS%), 4.0 assists (1.73 ATR), 3.4 rebounds, 0.4 steals
As a bench player:
22.5 points (55.0% TS%), 4.2 assists (1.5 ATR), 3.6 rebounds, 1.8 steals
Note, on the bench he couldn't make anything from 3 (24.4%) which deflated his averages... but he also feasted off the bench against the Sixers without a real rim protector so we can call it even. |
I was just looking for that and could only find his traditional post-ASB numbers. His FG% and 3pt% were actually worse. His free throw percentage spiked, though.
Last edited by greenfrog on Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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tox
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nash
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| Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | I think Clarkson is hard to evaluate because I'm not sure he's been put in a consistent role since his rookie season. Seems he's best at PG and the longer he's remained in that role, the better he seems to do. It's too bad we only put him at the starting PG spot so late in the year. |
+1 |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | I think Clarkson is hard to evaluate because I'm not sure he's been put in a consistent role since his rookie season. Seems he's best at PG and the longer he's remained in that role, the better he seems to do. It's too bad we only put him at the starting PG spot so late in the year. |
The Lakers ran this "defenders & energy guys who can't shoot" bench lineup toward the end of the year w/Ennis, Brewer, Nwaba, Robinson, & Black, and I actually think that JC would be a good fit with a lineup like that. You could have a really fast, transition-centric lineup, and JC's individual shot creation would be of more use (without the opportunity cost) in the half court. |
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tox
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| Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | I think Clarkson is hard to evaluate because I'm not sure he's been put in a consistent role since his rookie season. Seems he's best at PG and the longer he's remained in that role, the better he seems to do. It's too bad we only put him at the starting PG spot so late in the year. |
The Lakers ran this "defenders & energy guys who can't shoot" bench lineup toward the end of the year w/Ennis, Brewer, Nwaba, Robinson, & Black, and I actually think that JC would be a good fit with a lineup like that. You could have a really fast, transition-centric lineup, and JC's individual shot creation would be of more use (without the opportunity cost) in the half court. |
Aren't you concerned this unit will cause the same problem we saw in December of this past season? They don't mix with the Lakers actually trying to run the structured offense & defense that the starters play and this causes problems when we try to intermix lineups? I especially think it's dangerous for a guy like Clarkson, who probably needs as many reps running Luke's stuff since the reads doesn't come naturally to him.
I actually agree this lineup would work best for JC. Nash had some lineup stats about JC and they were almost all Lou Williams or that defense-first, energy bench. Also worth mentioning JC averaged 1.8 steals per 36 with that unit; with the starters, just 0.4 steals per 36. So that's probably the best kind of lineup for him defensively as well. I'm just concerned we'd be continuing a theme of roster incoherence in a way I don't like. |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | I think Clarkson is hard to evaluate because I'm not sure he's been put in a consistent role since his rookie season. Seems he's best at PG and the longer he's remained in that role, the better he seems to do. It's too bad we only put him at the starting PG spot so late in the year. |
The Lakers ran this "defenders & energy guys who can't shoot" bench lineup toward the end of the year w/Ennis, Brewer, Nwaba, Robinson, & Black, and I actually think that JC would be a good fit with a lineup like that. You could have a really fast, transition-centric lineup, and JC's individual shot creation would be of more use (without the opportunity cost) in the half court. |
Aren't you concerned this unit will cause the same problem we saw in December of this past season? They don't mix with the Lakers actually trying to run the structured offense & defense that the starters play and this causes problems when we try to intermix lineups? I especially think it's dangerous for a guy like Clarkson, who probably needs as many reps running Luke's stuff since the reads doesn't come naturally to him.
I actually agree this lineup would work best for JC. Nash had some lineup stats about JC and they were almost all Lou Williams or that defense-first, energy bench. Also worth mentioning JC averaged 1.8 steals per 36 with that unit; with the starters, just 0.4 steals per 36. So that's probably the best kind of lineup for him defensively as well. I'm just concerned we'd be continuing a theme of roster incoherence in a way I don't like. |
I am, I'm just spitballing on where he could be used best going forward. But you're right that we need more continuity from the 1st unit to the 2nd. I was actually gonna bring that up in one of the upcoming pods. |
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tox
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| Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | tox wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | I think Clarkson is hard to evaluate because I'm not sure he's been put in a consistent role since his rookie season. Seems he's best at PG and the longer he's remained in that role, the better he seems to do. It's too bad we only put him at the starting PG spot so late in the year. |
The Lakers ran this "defenders & energy guys who can't shoot" bench lineup toward the end of the year w/Ennis, Brewer, Nwaba, Robinson, & Black, and I actually think that JC would be a good fit with a lineup like that. You could have a really fast, transition-centric lineup, and JC's individual shot creation would be of more use (without the opportunity cost) in the half court. |
Aren't you concerned this unit will cause the same problem we saw in December of this past season? They don't mix with the Lakers actually trying to run the structured offense & defense that the starters play and this causes problems when we try to intermix lineups? I especially think it's dangerous for a guy like Clarkson, who probably needs as many reps running Luke's stuff since the reads doesn't come naturally to him.
I actually agree this lineup would work best for JC. Nash had some lineup stats about JC and they were almost all Lou Williams or that defense-first, energy bench. Also worth mentioning JC averaged 1.8 steals per 36 with that unit; with the starters, just 0.4 steals per 36. So that's probably the best kind of lineup for him defensively as well. I'm just concerned we'd be continuing a theme of roster incoherence in a way I don't like. |
I am, I'm just spitballing on where he could be used best going forward. But you're right that we need more continuity from the 1st unit to the 2nd. I was actually gonna bring that up in one of the upcoming pods. |
I need to title my article and get your brother to give it a final edit before that, so you can reference it if necessary. Tons of interesting stats about that. |
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pio2u
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:13 am Post subject: |
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2017 Player Capsule: Jordan Clarkson
| Quote: | Season Summary:
Jordan Clarkson was whatever the Lakers needed him to be this year. He spent the majority of it as one of the league’s most productive off-the-bench scorers before injuries brought him into the starting lineup. He even started at point guard for the final few weeks, which he hadn’t done since he rookie season two years ago.
For all of his role changes, Clarkson’s numbers ended up similar to last season, averaging 14.7 points on 44.5 percent shooting from the field. However, he picked up his workload after the All-Star break by putting up 19.4 points and settled in more as a passer with 4.2 assists.
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http://www.nba.com/lakers/news/170424-player-capsule-jordan-clarkson?ls=recent_news |
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Drifts
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| Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| nash wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | I think Clarkson is hard to evaluate because I'm not sure he's been put in a consistent role since his rookie season. Seems he's best at PG and the longer he's remained in that role, the better he seems to do. It's too bad we only put him at the starting PG spot so late in the year. |
+1 |
+1
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Villain6Activated
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| Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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JC as our 6th man for years to come would be great. He has all the tools to be a potent scorer off the bench or even as our main PG off the bench. He works hard so I'm confident that he's going to continue to add to his game.
However, if he's coming back as a starter then I'm not really confident about our future regardless of who is starting next to him.
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MJST
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| Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | tox wrote: | Clarkson, post-ASB (i.e. post-Lou), per-36
As a starter:
16.6 points (51.1% TS%), 4.0 assists (1.73 ATR), 3.4 rebounds, 0.4 steals
As a bench player:
22.5 points (55.0% TS%), 4.2 assists (1.5 ATR), 3.6 rebounds, 1.8 steals
Note, on the bench he couldn't make anything from 3 (24.4%) which deflated his averages... but he also feasted off the bench against the Sixers without a real rim protector so we can call it even. |
I was just looking for that and could only find his traditional post-ASB numbers. His FG% and 3pt% were actually worse. His free throw percentage spiked, though. |
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/clarkjo01/gamelog/2017#197-220-sum:pgl_basic
17.2 PPG
3.3 REB
3.8 AST
0.7 STL
2.3 TOV
33.7 MPG
Field Goal: 43%
Three Pointers: 32.4%
Free Throw: 82.8%
At "Point Guard"
16.0 PPG
3.4 REB
4.0 AST
0.3 STL
2.2 TOV
35.3 MPG
Field Goal: 42.4%
Three Pointers: 35.2%
Free Throw: 78.3%
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tox
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| Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| JC was, like, 92nd percentile off of screens. It's too bad he's such a ball pounder since he actually has the skills to be pretty good in Luke's offense. |
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nash
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 4:46 am Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | JC was, like, 92nd percentile off of screens. It's too bad he's such a ball pounder since he actually has the skills to be pretty good in Luke's offense. |
I don't like to make excuses for players, but give him this PG role for a couple of months then we can have a clue because he did a fine job as a rookie. |
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Villain6Activated
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 5:13 am Post subject: |
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| nash wrote: | | tox wrote: | | JC was, like, 92nd percentile off of screens. It's too bad he's such a ball pounder since he actually has the skills to be pretty good in Luke's offense. |
I don't like to make excuses for players, but give him this PG role for a couple of months then we can have a clue because he did a fine job as a rookie. |
I think Lou Williams held JC back honestly, but I still wouldn't give him the starting PG role for a couple months. Instead what I would like to do with him is make him the 6th man where he is the point guard and has all the ball handling duties. He would be one of the most athletic guards coming off the bench.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | JC was, like, 92nd percentile off of screens. It's too bad he's such a ball pounder since he actually has the skills to be pretty good in Luke's offense. |
He just needs the IQ to realize it.
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nash
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | tox wrote: | | JC was, like, 92nd percentile off of screens. It's too bad he's such a ball pounder since he actually has the skills to be pretty good in Luke's offense. |
He just needs the IQ to realize it. |
Sometimes I believe IQ is what hold JC and Julius back. maybe late in his 30's they will figure out the game. The guys have talent and some unique physical tools, but their braincells aren't getting the job done. |
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defense
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| nash wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | tox wrote: | | JC was, like, 92nd percentile off of screens. It's too bad he's such a ball pounder since he actually has the skills to be pretty good in Luke's offense. |
He just needs the IQ to realize it. |
Sometimes I believe IQ is what hold JC and Julius back. maybe late in his 30's they will figure out the game. The guys have talent and some unique physical tools, but their braincells aren't getting the job done. |
Clarkson has lots of skills. IQ is definitely his problem
Randle is still developing skills. He needs to improve both. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 10:37 am Post subject: |
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If JC had top notch BBALL IQ there is no way he would have been a #46 pick. Dude has insane athleticism and work ethic. I think his understanding of the game at a high level is what is holding him back.
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tox
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| nash wrote: | | tox wrote: | | JC was, like, 92nd percentile off of screens. It's too bad he's such a ball pounder since he actually has the skills to be pretty good in Luke's offense. |
I don't like to make excuses for players, but give him this PG role for a couple of months then we can have a clue because he did a fine job as a rookie. |
"Off screens" means shooting off of off ball screens. To me he failed his PG audition and I don't think the 92nd percentile off screens changes that. He's a good ISO player and PnR ballhandler, as well, but I don't see how any of that indicates he should be PG.
To me he failed his PG audition to end the season. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | nash wrote: | | tox wrote: | | JC was, like, 92nd percentile off of screens. It's too bad he's such a ball pounder since he actually has the skills to be pretty good in Luke's offense. |
I don't like to make excuses for players, but give him this PG role for a couple of months then we can have a clue because he did a fine job as a rookie. |
"Off screens" means shooting off of off ball screens. To me he failed his PG audition and I don't think the 92nd percentile off screens changes that. He's a good ISO player and PnR ballhandler, as well, but I don't see how any of that indicates he should be PG.
To me he failed his PG audition to end the season. |
Agreed. I thought your 92% stat was clear, but apparently not.
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tox
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| LilJay24 wrote: | | nash wrote: | | tox wrote: | | JC was, like, 92nd percentile off of screens. It's too bad he's such a ball pounder since he actually has the skills to be pretty good in Luke's offense. |
I don't like to make excuses for players, but give him this PG role for a couple of months then we can have a clue because he did a fine job as a rookie. |
I think Lou Williams held JC back honestly, but I still wouldn't give him the starting PG role for a couple months. Instead what I would like to do with him is make him the 6th man where he is the point guard and has all the ball handling duties. He would be one of the most athletic guards coming off the bench. |
BTW the stats support everything you've said. JC was actually better with Lou than when he started. But JC was KILLING it (in a small sample size) as the backup primary ballhandler who got to ball pound to his heart's desire (next to Black, Nance, Ennis, Nwaba/ Brewer). Of course small sample sizes are wonky, but JC was also just bricking 3s in that time... so I'd argue it mostly evens out. That's probably his best role.
But I don't see that working in the kind of system the Lakers wants to run. Which is what led to my OP... he has those skills too, but like people have said his feel for basketball/ bball IQ is just so poor. |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 11:24 am Post subject: |
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JC's Off Screen and Spot Up production was good last year too, which is why I thought he'd flourish in this offense. He's the best guy on the team in terms of knowing when to curl or flare off of a down screen from the corner.
Sign me up for the whole "playing w/a PG" setup for him. That certainly wasn't Lou and when he started he was sort of a PG and sort of a SG, but really neither fish nor fowl. (not his fault btw...just describing how he was used) |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| nash wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | tox wrote: | | JC was, like, 92nd percentile off of screens. It's too bad he's such a ball pounder since he actually has the skills to be pretty good in Luke's offense. |
He just needs the IQ to realize it. |
Sometimes I believe IQ is what hold JC and Julius back. maybe late in his 30's they will figure out the game. The guys have talent and some unique physical tools, but their braincells aren't getting the job done. |
I disagree about Randle, his IQ is fine, he needs to execute better. It was no shock that he dabbled with triple doubles late in the season after figuring out the offensive schemes.
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