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Halflife
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:19 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
Halflife wrote:
He hit his ceiling two years ago. He will regress in no time if he already hasnít


Sure. But what are you expecting from a backup guard?

You would hope he would either be a defender or a microwave or at the very least run the scheme. He is none.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:20 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
TheBlackMamba wrote:
epak wrote:
Halflife wrote:
He hit his ceiling two years ago. He will regress in no time if he already hasnít


Sure. But what are you expecting from a backup guard?


A backup guard that's getting paid $12.5M.


Again, what are you expecting from a backup guard?


More than you, and I'm guessing the FO is going to feel the same way when they need to open up that extra bit of cap space for the two max slots they love talking about next summer.
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epak
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:23 pm    Post subject:

I have no problem with moving him for cap.
I just don't get what you guys want from a backup this year. Vinnie Johnson? Give me a break.

When I get a chance I'll try to look up all the backup guards in the league to see who we would want over JC.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:24 pm    Post subject:

TheBlackMamba wrote:
epak wrote:
Halflife wrote:
He hit his ceiling two years ago. He will regress in no time if he already hasnít


Sure. But what are you expecting from a backup guard?


A backup guard that's getting paid $12.5M.


wait, so its about his salary? so if he was making $6 Million, you would not have a problem with his play?
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epak
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:26 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
epak wrote:
Halflife wrote:
He hit his ceiling two years ago. He will regress in no time if he already hasnít


Sure. But what are you expecting from a backup guard?


if you get 12-14 PPG from him a night, and his TO's are low.....I think that should be considered "ok"


I'd be "ok" with that haha.
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TooMuchMajicBuss
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:27 pm    Post subject:

From a backup guard I'd like unselfish and intelligent play, attacking the basket when the defense gives an opening, but kicking it out to a waiting and wide open Kuzma when the defense is dumb enough to leave Kyle Kuzma open and sag in on Jordan Clarkson.

That's what I'd like from a backup guard. No matter what his salary is.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:29 pm    Post subject:

TooMuchMajicBuss wrote:
From a backup guard I'd like unselfish and intelligent play, attacking the basket when the defense gives an opening, but kicking it out to a waiting and wide open Kuzma when the defense is dumb enough to leave Kyle Kuzma open and sag in on Jordan Clarkson.

That's what I'd like from a backup guard. No matter what his salary is.


Cool.
Do you happen to have any current backup guard examples in the league?
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:29 pm    Post subject:

TooMuchMajicBuss wrote:
From a backup guard I'd like unselfish and intelligent play, attacking the basket when the defense gives an opening, but kicking it out to a waiting and wide open Kuzma when the defense is dumb enough to leave Kyle Kuzma open and sag in on Jordan Clarkson.

That's what I'd like from a backup guard. No matter what his salary is.


remove Kuzma, insert Ingram....and this is a copy and paste from last year....you know I am telling the truth TooMuchMajicBuss
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:31 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
TheBlackMamba wrote:
epak wrote:
Halflife wrote:
He hit his ceiling two years ago. He will regress in no time if he already hasnít


Sure. But what are you expecting from a backup guard?


A backup guard that's getting paid $12.5M.


wait, so its about his salary? so if he was making $6 Million, you would not have a problem with his play?


Is there something extraordinary that you don't understand about that concept?
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TheBlackMamba
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:32 pm    Post subject:

And let's not pretend that he's a "backup guard" in the traditional sense. Dude has played over 30 MPG the last two seasons. Sorry for expecting more from him?
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:36 pm    Post subject:

TheBlackMamba wrote:
And let's not pretend that he's a "backup guard" in the traditional sense. Dude has played over 30 MPG the last two seasons. Sorry for expecting more from him?


Ok. We get it.
If he doesn't play like a $12 million dollar player (whatever that means) than he's not living up to your expectations.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:36 pm    Post subject:

TheBlackMamba wrote:
adkindo wrote:
TheBlackMamba wrote:
epak wrote:
Halflife wrote:
He hit his ceiling two years ago. He will regress in no time if he already hasnít


Sure. But what are you expecting from a backup guard?


A backup guard that's getting paid $12.5M.


wait, so its about his salary? so if he was making $6 Million, you would not have a problem with his play?


Is there something extraordinary that you don't understand about that concept?


just trying to be clear....you think he is playing terrible? or you think he is playing terrible for the amount of money he is getting paid? There is a difference. I am fairly confident that Lopez will not play up to his salary this year.....have doubts about KCP earning his....but in general, I expect them both to play well and be productive.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:22 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
TheBlackMamba wrote:
And let's not pretend that he's a "backup guard" in the traditional sense. Dude has played over 30 MPG the last two seasons. Sorry for expecting more from him?


Ok. We get it.
If he doesn't play like a $12 million dollar player (whatever that means) than he's not living up to your expectations.


That's one part of it, but I never said the money is the only reason I hold him to a higher standard. It's the money and the big role he plays on the team, which you simplified as "backup guard", as if he's playing under 20 minutes a game on a minimum contract. The facts are that he's had a featured role on this team as one of the top scorers the last two seasons, even if it's off the bench. He's in Year 4 now, he was given a nice contract as a reward for his efforts and development after his 2nd year, and he just hasn't grown much as a player since. I don't see the improved defense and 3-point shooting that he's been talking about working on the past couple of summers, and I don't see the consistent decision-making ability that a player with his experience should be displaying at this point in his career. Again, sorry for having expectations, but I believe these are perfectly reasonable for a player in his position. Just because he tried to pass a bit more this one game doesn't excuse all his other mistakes and shortcomings.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:34 pm    Post subject:

Halflife wrote:
epak wrote:
Halflife wrote:
He hit his ceiling two years ago. He will regress in no time if he already hasnít


Sure. But what are you expecting from a backup guard?

You would hope he would either be a defender or a microwave or at the very least run the scheme. He is none.

Or a salary smaller than $12M

Magic and Rob gotta call everyone and try to dump his salary. Will probably take Chicago's 2018 2nd or something.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:38 am    Post subject:

Favorite play today was when he crossed himself over with no defender on him and lost the ball out of bounds.

Stu: "Jordan moved his feet too fast and forgot the ball."

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:36 am    Post subject:

He looks awful this start of preseason. At least last year he was trying on defense at the start of the season. Not sure why we have so many players that look bad:

- Nance - worst than last year
- Ingram - about as bad as last year, just that he is trying to much
- KCP - looks really limited
- Clarkson - looks like he regressed

Maybe we just play really bad/unorganized basketball? Was Lou /Russel's impact on offense that big?

Except Kuz who is impressing and Randle and Lopez who play as expected..the rest of the players look worst than many thought..
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:33 am    Post subject:

TheBlackMamba wrote:
Just because he tried to pass a bit more this one game doesn't excuse all his other mistakes and shortcomings.


but in your initial post, you claimed you was upset with his game performance because he demonstrated "tunnel vision throughout".....but now your saying he tried to pass a bit more....

haters gonna hate
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:40 am    Post subject:

I've read a few posts on last night's game. There are a few posters that thought Clarkson had a terrible game (with an emphasis on terrible because it was to the point of bashing). Even the Game Rating thread had him with an awful performance. With that said, I will try to be as non-biased as I can.

KCP - Ho-hum game from KCP. He had one great pass to JR. He played average defense. I really was hoping that KCP was going to lead our team in defense and be the savior at SG. So far throughout the pre-season, he has been average and has not affected the game on a negative or positive sense.

JC - Terrible first half from JC. I thought he was trying too hard and moving too fast for the game. Made a few cringe-worthy turnovers. I would have yanked him earlier in the first half than when Luke did.

On a good note, I thought he did better on man-D than his usual self. He was really trying to get around screens and not let his man get a good shot. Also got to the foul line and made 4 FT's.

Second half, he made up for his boneheaded mistakes from the first half. He was part of the team that saved our lead in the fourth. Ingram sub'd in for him late in the game and I didn't know why because Ingram was terrible.

Hart - Played good defense but that's it. Zero's across the board.

VBlue - Not enough playing time to assess his value.

So there you have it. Again, KCP was neutral the whole game, nothing great (actually a -2 on the box score). JC was terrible in the first but made up for it in the second (+2 on the box score). Hart was basically average D with nothing else (+8 on the box score).

Hard to score again. I will give the nod to who was more aggressive rather than non-existent. In this case it was JC, although bone-headed aggressive in the first but positive aggressive in the second.

Ongoing Score:
JC 3
KCP 1
VBlue 0
Hart 0
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:10 am    Post subject:

It's sad that even the people that don't like Clarkson can't put their hate aside to acknowledge him having a good game. Last night he played really well.
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epak
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:17 am    Post subject:

TheBlackMamba wrote:
epak wrote:
TheBlackMamba wrote:
And let's not pretend that he's a "backup guard" in the traditional sense. Dude has played over 30 MPG the last two seasons. Sorry for expecting more from him?


Ok. We get it.
If he doesn't play like a $12 million dollar player (whatever that means) than he's not living up to your expectations.


That's one part of it, but I never said the money is the only reason I hold him to a higher standard. It's the money and the big role he plays on the team, which you simplified as "backup guard", as if he's playing under 20 minutes a game on a minimum contract. The facts are that he's had a featured role on this team as one of the top scorers the last two seasons, even if it's off the bench. He's in Year 4 now, he was given a nice contract as a reward for his efforts and development after his 2nd year, and he just hasn't grown much as a player since. I don't see the improved defense and 3-point shooting that he's been talking about working on the past couple of summers, and I don't see the consistent decision-making ability that a player with his experience should be displaying at this point in his career. Again, sorry for having expectations, but I believe these are perfectly reasonable for a player in his position. Just because he tried to pass a bit more this one game doesn't excuse all his other mistakes and shortcomings.



You're jumping all over the place.
Just for clarity, you're not happy about the following:

1. The $12 million
2. You dont think he's a true backup because he's getting minutes
3. You don't like his 3 point shooting
4. You dont like his decision making ability
5. You dont like his defense

Those are fair points (except #2). Can you point me to an example backup guard in the NBA that you like? (Since clearly JC is a backup this year).
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:28 am    Post subject:

tox wrote:
Halflife wrote:
epak wrote:
Halflife wrote:
He hit his ceiling two years ago. He will regress in no time if he already hasnít


Sure. But what are you expecting from a backup guard?

You would hope he would either be a defender or a microwave or at the very least run the scheme. He is none.

Or a salary smaller than $12M

Magic and Rob gotta call everyone and try to dump his salary. Will probably take Chicago's 2018 2nd or something.


Probably more than that
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:11 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
TheBlackMamba wrote:
Just because he tried to pass a bit more this one game doesn't excuse all his other mistakes and shortcomings.


but in your initial post, you claimed you was upset with his game performance because he demonstrated "tunnel vision throughout".....but now your saying he tried to pass a bit more....

haters gonna hate


You said he tried to pass a bit more. I'm responding to your comment defending JC because he tried to pass more last night, that's not my personal observation. Maybe actually try to defend your position instead of twisting my words, Mr. Debate Team?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:13 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
TheBlackMamba wrote:
epak wrote:
TheBlackMamba wrote:
And let's not pretend that he's a "backup guard" in the traditional sense. Dude has played over 30 MPG the last two seasons. Sorry for expecting more from him?


Ok. We get it.
If he doesn't play like a $12 million dollar player (whatever that means) than he's not living up to your expectations.


That's one part of it, but I never said the money is the only reason I hold him to a higher standard. It's the money and the big role he plays on the team, which you simplified as "backup guard", as if he's playing under 20 minutes a game on a minimum contract. The facts are that he's had a featured role on this team as one of the top scorers the last two seasons, even if it's off the bench. He's in Year 4 now, he was given a nice contract as a reward for his efforts and development after his 2nd year, and he just hasn't grown much as a player since. I don't see the improved defense and 3-point shooting that he's been talking about working on the past couple of summers, and I don't see the consistent decision-making ability that a player with his experience should be displaying at this point in his career. Again, sorry for having expectations, but I believe these are perfectly reasonable for a player in his position. Just because he tried to pass a bit more this one game doesn't excuse all his other mistakes and shortcomings.



You're jumping all over the place.
Just for clarity, you're not happy about the following:

1. The $12 million
2. You dont think he's a true backup because he's getting minutes
3. You don't like his 3 point shooting
4. You dont like his decision making ability
5. You dont like his defense

Those are fair points (except #2). Can you point me to an example backup guard in the NBA that you like? (Since clearly JC is a backup this year).


How am I jumping all over the place? I don't like him as a player, been pretty consistent about that. There can be multiple reasons to not like a player, and I don't have to list every single one of them in every single post. And we'll see how many minutes he gets this year, I don't think you can assume that he's a true backup just yet.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:15 am    Post subject:

If he isnít a starter he is a backup
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epak
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:21 am    Post subject:

TheBlackMamba wrote:
epak wrote:
TheBlackMamba wrote:
epak wrote:
TheBlackMamba wrote:
And let's not pretend that he's a "backup guard" in the traditional sense. Dude has played over 30 MPG the last two seasons. Sorry for expecting more from him?


Ok. We get it.
If he doesn't play like a $12 million dollar player (whatever that means) than he's not living up to your expectations.


That's one part of it, but I never said the money is the only reason I hold him to a higher standard. It's the money and the big role he plays on the team, which you simplified as "backup guard", as if he's playing under 20 minutes a game on a minimum contract. The facts are that he's had a featured role on this team as one of the top scorers the last two seasons, even if it's off the bench. He's in Year 4 now, he was given a nice contract as a reward for his efforts and development after his 2nd year, and he just hasn't grown much as a player since. I don't see the improved defense and 3-point shooting that he's been talking about working on the past couple of summers, and I don't see the consistent decision-making ability that a player with his experience should be displaying at this point in his career. Again, sorry for having expectations, but I believe these are perfectly reasonable for a player in his position. Just because he tried to pass a bit more this one game doesn't excuse all his other mistakes and shortcomings.



You're jumping all over the place.
Just for clarity, you're not happy about the following:

1. The $12 million
2. You dont think he's a true backup because he's getting minutes
3. You don't like his 3 point shooting
4. You dont like his decision making ability
5. You dont like his defense

Those are fair points (except #2). Can you point me to an example backup guard in the NBA that you like? (Since clearly JC is a backup this year).


How am I jumping all over the place? I don't like him as a player, been pretty consistent about that. There can be multiple reasons to not like a player, and I don't have to list every single one of them in every single post. And we'll see how many minutes he gets this year, I don't think you can assume that he's a true backup just yet.


Sure.
Simple question: Can you list some backup guards that you like better than JC in the league? Or since you dont think he's a true backup (whatever that means), can you list some guards that come off the bench that you like better than JC? Just wondering what type of player we need on this team.
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