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PROPHET
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:29 am    Post subject:

lewis wrote:
He looks awful this start of preseason. At least last year he was trying on defense at the start of the season. Not sure why we have so many players that look bad:

- Nance - worst than last year
- Ingram - about as bad as last year, just that he is trying to much
- KCP - looks really limited
- Clarkson - looks like he regressed

Maybe we just play really bad/unorganized basketball? Was Lou /Russel's impact on offense that big?

Except Kuz who is impressing and Randle and Lopez who play as expected..the rest of the players look worst than many thought..


I'm really starting to question the coaching staff. I saw the nets game and their offense and the spacing is light years away from ours. Luke is a likeable guy and coach but he needs veteran coaches to help him.

All his coaches are guys who are relatively young in coaching heck he took Buechler from high school volleyball.
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TheBlackMamba
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:34 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
TheBlackMamba wrote:
epak wrote:
TheBlackMamba wrote:
epak wrote:
TheBlackMamba wrote:
And let's not pretend that he's a "backup guard" in the traditional sense. Dude has played over 30 MPG the last two seasons. Sorry for expecting more from him?


Ok. We get it.
If he doesn't play like a $12 million dollar player (whatever that means) than he's not living up to your expectations.


That's one part of it, but I never said the money is the only reason I hold him to a higher standard. It's the money and the big role he plays on the team, which you simplified as "backup guard", as if he's playing under 20 minutes a game on a minimum contract. The facts are that he's had a featured role on this team as one of the top scorers the last two seasons, even if it's off the bench. He's in Year 4 now, he was given a nice contract as a reward for his efforts and development after his 2nd year, and he just hasn't grown much as a player since. I don't see the improved defense and 3-point shooting that he's been talking about working on the past couple of summers, and I don't see the consistent decision-making ability that a player with his experience should be displaying at this point in his career. Again, sorry for having expectations, but I believe these are perfectly reasonable for a player in his position. Just because he tried to pass a bit more this one game doesn't excuse all his other mistakes and shortcomings.



You're jumping all over the place.
Just for clarity, you're not happy about the following:

1. The $12 million
2. You dont think he's a true backup because he's getting minutes
3. You don't like his 3 point shooting
4. You dont like his decision making ability
5. You dont like his defense

Those are fair points (except #2). Can you point me to an example backup guard in the NBA that you like? (Since clearly JC is a backup this year).


How am I jumping all over the place? I don't like him as a player, been pretty consistent about that. There can be multiple reasons to not like a player, and I don't have to list every single one of them in every single post. And we'll see how many minutes he gets this year, I don't think you can assume that he's a true backup just yet.


Sure.
Simple question: Can you list some backup guards that you like better than JC in the league? Or since you dont think he's a true backup (whatever that means), can you list some guards that come off the bench that you like better than JC? Just wondering what type of player we need on this team.


Even Caruso outplayed him last night, if that gives you an idea.

Livingston
Smart
Cory Joseph
Austin Rivers
Belinelli
LeVert
Ian Clark
Derrick Rose
J.R. Smith
Shumpert
Yogi Ferrell
Lou Williams
Nick Young
Eric Gordon
Tyler Johnson
Dellavedova
Courtney Lee
Afflalo
Patty Mills
Ginobili
Jodie Meeks
Norman Powell
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:38 am    Post subject:

TheBlackMamba wrote:
adkindo wrote:
TheBlackMamba wrote:
Just because he tried to pass a bit more this one game doesn't excuse all his other mistakes and shortcomings.


but in your initial post, you claimed you was upset with his game performance because he demonstrated "tunnel vision throughout".....but now your saying he tried to pass a bit more....

haters gonna hate


You said he tried to pass a bit more. I'm responding to your comment defending JC because he tried to pass more last night, that's not my personal observation. Maybe actually try to defend your position instead of twisting my words, Mr. Debate Team?



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epak
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:50 am    Post subject:

TheBlackMamba wrote:
epak wrote:
TheBlackMamba wrote:
epak wrote:
TheBlackMamba wrote:
epak wrote:
TheBlackMamba wrote:
And let's not pretend that he's a "backup guard" in the traditional sense. Dude has played over 30 MPG the last two seasons. Sorry for expecting more from him?


Ok. We get it.
If he doesn't play like a $12 million dollar player (whatever that means) than he's not living up to your expectations.


That's one part of it, but I never said the money is the only reason I hold him to a higher standard. It's the money and the big role he plays on the team, which you simplified as "backup guard", as if he's playing under 20 minutes a game on a minimum contract. The facts are that he's had a featured role on this team as one of the top scorers the last two seasons, even if it's off the bench. He's in Year 4 now, he was given a nice contract as a reward for his efforts and development after his 2nd year, and he just hasn't grown much as a player since. I don't see the improved defense and 3-point shooting that he's been talking about working on the past couple of summers, and I don't see the consistent decision-making ability that a player with his experience should be displaying at this point in his career. Again, sorry for having expectations, but I believe these are perfectly reasonable for a player in his position. Just because he tried to pass a bit more this one game doesn't excuse all his other mistakes and shortcomings.



You're jumping all over the place.
Just for clarity, you're not happy about the following:

1. The $12 million
2. You dont think he's a true backup because he's getting minutes
3. You don't like his 3 point shooting
4. You dont like his decision making ability
5. You dont like his defense

Those are fair points (except #2). Can you point me to an example backup guard in the NBA that you like? (Since clearly JC is a backup this year).


How am I jumping all over the place? I don't like him as a player, been pretty consistent about that. There can be multiple reasons to not like a player, and I don't have to list every single one of them in every single post. And we'll see how many minutes he gets this year, I don't think you can assume that he's a true backup just yet.


Sure.
Simple question: Can you list some backup guards that you like better than JC in the league? Or since you dont think he's a true backup (whatever that means), can you list some guards that come off the bench that you like better than JC? Just wondering what type of player we need on this team.


Even Caruso outplayed him last night, if that gives you an idea.

Livingston
Smart
Cory Joseph
Austin Rivers
Belinelli
LeVert
Ian Clark
Derrick Rose
J.R. Smith
Shumpert
Yogi Ferrell
Lou Williams
Nick Young
Eric Gordon
Tyler Johnson
Dellavedova
Courtney Lee
Afflalo
Patty Mills
Ginobili
Jodie Meeks
Norman Powell


Great list. Thanks.
Gives me something to work with
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2019
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:57 am    Post subject:

PROPHET wrote:
lewis wrote:
He looks awful this start of preseason. At least last year he was trying on defense at the start of the season. Not sure why we have so many players that look bad:

- Nance - worst than last year
- Ingram - about as bad as last year, just that he is trying to much
- KCP - looks really limited
- Clarkson - looks like he regressed

Maybe we just play really bad/unorganized basketball? Was Lou /Russel's impact on offense that big?

Except Kuz who is impressing and Randle and Lopez who play as expected..the rest of the players look worst than many thought..


I'm really starting to question the coaching staff. I saw the nets game and their offense and the spacing is light years away from ours. Luke is a likeable guy and coach but he needs veteran coaches to help him.

All his coaches are guys who are relatively young in coaching heck he took Buechler from high school volleyball.


We lost 45+ ppg between DLO + Swaggy + Lou. Think about that for a second.

Right now and with this personnel defense can't be our calling card .. we need to outscore teams to win and we don't have our top 3 from last year. Ingram is nowhere near ready, JC looks out of it (maybe knowing he's openly not well regarded), Lonzo isn't a scorer, and KCP has been terrible. That leaves Julius, Lopez and Kuzma as our 3 best scorers right now-- that's pretty pathetic.

So someone this is definitely on Luke and his short bus of a coaching staff but a big part of this is on Magic and Pelinka for not properly addressing what we lost and further putting too much talk and hype out there.
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epak
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:59 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
TheBlackMamba wrote:
adkindo wrote:
TheBlackMamba wrote:
Just because he tried to pass a bit more this one game doesn't excuse all his other mistakes and shortcomings.


but in your initial post, you claimed you was upset with his game performance because he demonstrated "tunnel vision throughout".....but now your saying he tried to pass a bit more....

haters gonna hate


You said he tried to pass a bit more. I'm responding to your comment defending JC because he tried to pass more last night, that's not my personal observation. Maybe actually try to defend your position instead of twisting my words, Mr. Debate Team?




I'm confused.
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justsomelakerfan
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:31 am    Post subject:

Actually thought before last night he looked fine. Needs some minutes with Lonzo this year
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TheBlackMamba
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:43 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
TheBlackMamba wrote:
adkindo wrote:
JC was 3 of 6 for 10 Points, 4 Rebounds, 2 Assists and 1 Steal in limited minutes.....how is that a terrible outing off the bench? JC haters are Tuckers...


Did you watch the game, or are strictly going off box score? He suffered from tunnel vision throughout, missed several opportunities to pass to the open man, botched easy transition opportunities by trying to do it all himself, and made his usual boneheaded turnovers - all in all, a classic JC game. 2 of his FGs were spoonfed to him by Jules/Kuz late in the game, and he used his athleticism to finish. But it's not his athleticism that I doubt, it's ability to think the game and make smart basketball decisions. On that front, he's the same old clown.


oh man, you got me....I never watch games....just create uninformed opinions based off of the box score......IF you had watched the game, you would have recognized that his tunnel vision was actually less than he was prone to last year.....as he was actively seeking to pass this game.
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tony
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:32 pm    Post subject:

Had some great moments toward the end but he constantly gets himself into trouble by trying to do too much or getting caught in the air
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:39 pm    Post subject:

2019 wrote:
PROPHET wrote:
lewis wrote:
He looks awful this start of preseason. At least last year he was trying on defense at the start of the season. Not sure why we have so many players that look bad:

- Nance - worst than last year
- Ingram - about as bad as last year, just that he is trying to much
- KCP - looks really limited
- Clarkson - looks like he regressed

Maybe we just play really bad/unorganized basketball? Was Lou /Russel's impact on offense that big?

Except Kuz who is impressing and Randle and Lopez who play as expected..the rest of the players look worst than many thought..


I'm really starting to question the coaching staff. I saw the nets game and their offense and the spacing is light years away from ours. Luke is a likeable guy and coach but he needs veteran coaches to help him.

All his coaches are guys who are relatively young in coaching heck he took Buechler from high school volleyball.


We lost 45+ ppg between DLO + Swaggy + Lou. Think about that for a second.

Right now and with this personnel defense can't be our calling card .. we need to outscore teams to win and we don't have our top 3 from last year. Ingram is nowhere near ready, JC looks out of it (maybe knowing he's openly not well regarded), Lonzo isn't a scorer, and KCP has been terrible. That leaves Julius, Lopez and Kuzma as our 3 best scorers right now-- that's pretty pathetic.

So someone this is definitely on Luke and his short bus of a coaching staff but a big part of this is on Magic and Pelinka for not properly addressing what we lost and further putting too much talk and hype out there.


Lopez and Kuzma will give 35+ ppg...so we "lost" maybe 10 ppg. Lonzo should be able to give us those 10 ppg.....hopefully more.
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WVLAKERFAN1
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:57 pm    Post subject:

In the first half he seemed to be going to fast. Overall though I thought he played fine. He could have easily had more assists. Caruso missed 2 wide open 3s off kickouts. His on ball defense looked much better than last year as well.
That bench unit looked nice and could be dangerous if you add Bogut and move kuzma to the 3.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:46 pm    Post subject:

We have real issues with our PG's. JC makes too many dumb mistakes and Ennis is just too damn conservative. A couple of plays last night on a fast break where Ennis could have thrown the ball ahead for a score but instead he held on to it until the defenders caught up and he had to pull the ball back out. So damn frustrating.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:00 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
tox wrote:
Halflife wrote:
epak wrote:
Halflife wrote:
He hit his ceiling two years ago. He will regress in no time if he already hasn’t


Sure. But what are you expecting from a backup guard?

You would hope he would either be a defender or a microwave or at the very least run the scheme. He is none.

Or a salary smaller than $12M

Magic and Rob gotta call everyone and try to dump his salary. Will probably take Chicago's 2018 2nd or something.


Probably more than that


Probably. Gotta get rid of him, though. It's a damn shame Chicago traded for LaVine and Dunn... they're one of the dumbest organizations so they might buy into the Clarkson fool's gold. The Knicks have no cap space or expirings to give. What other stupid organizations are out there?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:09 pm    Post subject:

More importantly, what organization is willing to help the Lakers get that much cap space? I would guess that after Magic’s boasting and Pelinka’s tampering, there are a good number of teams who wouldn’t want to. Unless, of course, the Lakers overpay.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:04 pm    Post subject:


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tox
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:05 pm    Post subject:

anpherknee wrote:

Yep, he had a good game today.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:05 pm    Post subject:

Nice job tonight
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tox
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:05 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
More importantly, what organization is willing to help the Lakers get that much cap space? I would guess that after Magic’s boasting and Pelinka’s tampering, there are a good number of teams who wouldn’t want to. Unless, of course, the Lakers overpay.

Eh, you could've said the same thing about helping the 73 win Warriors get KD, but self-interest wins out in the end. I think only Indiana is willing to make that "principled stand."
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:10 pm    Post subject:

Me looking at Clarkson's box score after missing the game tonight.

18 points
0 assists
2 turnovers
2 steals
+10
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:13 pm    Post subject:

Can't hate on JC, when he was on the floor Lakers were a +10.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:41 pm    Post subject:

Jordan-esque wrote:
Can't hate on JC, when he was on the floor Lakers were a +10.


All-in-all JC played well tonight.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:46 pm    Post subject:

In the preseason, shooting 54% from the field overall....90% from the line, but has struggled from 3.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:51 pm    Post subject:

anpherknee wrote:

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:14 pm    Post subject:

Really good game. It would be awesome if he can have these kind of games every night.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:15 pm    Post subject:

Yeah gotta give props to JC tonight
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