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Practice Star Player
Joined: 14 Apr 2015 Posts: 4551
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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Dave20 wrote: | Russell1 wrote: | Dave20 wrote: | Russell1 wrote: |
So, the owner decided to keep him. West and Kerr have no power to veto a trade. lol
But the point is, JC is no Klay and doesn't hold that type of value. | No one is saying he's the exact same player as Klay, but that both were heavily criticized and been in trade proposals. Clarkson was the best player last year despite the circumstances. You're missing the point because you have a hidden agenda, Russell. |
If you look at every player on the team last year, Clarkson wasn't the best player. | He was the best player on the team Last year. Even the biggest Russell stan would tell you that. Lou relies solely on getting to the FT line and he was going against bench players. Clarkson avg his stats against the elite PG's in the west. What he did as a 2nd year player is remarkable given the ankle injury and different lineups under Byron. |
Why are you using Lou's ability to get to the line as a negative when it clearly makes him super efficient? |
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Outspoken Star Player
Joined: 11 Feb 2015 Posts: 8447
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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Just because you say 2 players names in the same sentence, doesn't mean their attributes are getting compared head on nor does it mean one is saying they have similar skillset. Sometimes it's just the situations getting compared. Warrior fans were devaluing klay and Laker fans are devaluing JC, even though they both are really good talents. |
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Dave20 Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2013 Posts: 11333
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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Outspoken wrote: | Just because you say 2 players names in the same sentence, doesn't mean their attributes are getting compared head on nor does it mean one is saying they have similar skillset. Sometimes it's just the situations getting compared. Warrior fans were devaluing klay and Laker fans are devaluing JC, even though they both are really good talents. | Its mind boggling. |
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Dave20 Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2013 Posts: 11333
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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Russell1 wrote: | Dave20 wrote: | Russell1 wrote: | Dave20 wrote: | Russell1 wrote: |
So, the owner decided to keep him. West and Kerr have no power to veto a trade. lol
But the point is, JC is no Klay and doesn't hold that type of value. | No one is saying he's the exact same player as Klay, but that both were heavily criticized and been in trade proposals. Clarkson was the best player last year despite the circumstances. You're missing the point because you have a hidden agenda, Russell. |
If you look at every player on the team last year, Clarkson wasn't the best player. | He was the best player on the team Last year. Even the biggest Russell stan would tell you that. Lou relies solely on getting to the FT line and he was going against bench players. Clarkson avg his stats against the elite PG's in the west. What he did as a 2nd year player is remarkable given the ankle injury and different lineups under Byron. |
Im just going by the numbers man. | You didn't include all the numbers just the ones you wanted too. Clarkson had a better FG%, 3pt%, ast, rebs, and defensive stats. You also have to take into account who was Clarkson playing against vs Lou. There's not enough eye test being used, relying too much on analytics. |
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Car54 Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 14424
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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Russell1 wrote: | Car54 wrote: | Russell1 wrote: | Car54 wrote: | Russell1 wrote: | Car54 wrote: | Russell1 wrote: | Dave20 wrote: | Clarkson was the best player on the team last year. I understand your point of view of having a super 6th man, but if you think he's going to be happy coming off the bench you're in for a rude awakening. He doesn't have the mentality of a Ginobli, he's more alpha.
The ankle injury slowed him down for 3 weeks. He was shooting 45%FG, 40% 3pt most of the year. Defensively, we know he needs to improve and he's already working out now. If he improves his defense and with better ball movement and spacing I think he's going to have a breakout year. |
Lou Williams was better than Clarkson last year. Clarkson regressed from his rookie year, he didn't exactly take his game to another level, he actually got worse. |
That's false. Only area Clarkson became worst in was playing pg. his scoring was better rebounding seemed better as well. |
If you look at offensive rating, TS%, Ast%, per 36 minutes, PER, Win Shares, and Box plus minus stats Lou blows Clarkson out of the water. Overall Lou is and was a better player. |
Possibly because all Lou did was draw fouls but by no means was he the better player. |
ok, we will just ignore the numbers where Lou wins in most categories and go based on what you think is right.
It just helps if you can back up your claims. If you pull stats and sort through them, Lou has the advantage by a good margin. |
What numbers am I ignoring? The ones that say Clarkson avg 15.5 vs Lou 15.2ppg? What numbers the ones that say Clarkson shot 43% vs Lous 40%? Or the number that have clarkson avg 4 Rebs vs Lous 2? |
Not just you cherry picked numbers, like all of the numbers and advanced stats. Lou has him beat. You are free to think what you want, but the numbers don't support it.
PPG. lol |
The numbers you posted are a formula vs stats. The stats are a clear break down of each catagory while you're posting an offensive formula. You're free to believe what you want but I know Clarkson has more value in the league than Lou does. _________________ Coach Vogel, Kidd, Hollins
Max slot : Kawhi |
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Practice Star Player
Joined: 14 Apr 2015 Posts: 4551
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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Dave20 wrote: | Russell1 wrote: | Dave20 wrote: | Russell1 wrote: | Dave20 wrote: | Russell1 wrote: |
So, the owner decided to keep him. West and Kerr have no power to veto a trade. lol
But the point is, JC is no Klay and doesn't hold that type of value. | No one is saying he's the exact same player as Klay, but that both were heavily criticized and been in trade proposals. Clarkson was the best player last year despite the circumstances. You're missing the point because you have a hidden agenda, Russell. |
If you look at every player on the team last year, Clarkson wasn't the best player. | He was the best player on the team Last year. Even the biggest Russell stan would tell you that. Lou relies solely on getting to the FT line and he was going against bench players. Clarkson avg his stats against the elite PG's in the west. What he did as a 2nd year player is remarkable given the ankle injury and different lineups under Byron. |
Im just going by the numbers man. | You didn't include all the numbers just the ones you wanted too. Clarkson had a better FG%, 3pt%, ast, rebs, and defensive stats. You also have to take into account who was Clarkson playing against vs Lou. There's not enough eye test being used, relying too much on analytics. |
Lou averages more points and assists per 36 in addition to the advance stats leaning more in his favor |
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Practice Star Player
Joined: 14 Apr 2015 Posts: 4551
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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Car54 wrote: | Russell1 wrote: | Car54 wrote: | Russell1 wrote: | Car54 wrote: | Russell1 wrote: | Car54 wrote: | Russell1 wrote: | Dave20 wrote: | Clarkson was the best player on the team last year. I understand your point of view of having a super 6th man, but if you think he's going to be happy coming off the bench you're in for a rude awakening. He doesn't have the mentality of a Ginobli, he's more alpha.
The ankle injury slowed him down for 3 weeks. He was shooting 45%FG, 40% 3pt most of the year. Defensively, we know he needs to improve and he's already working out now. If he improves his defense and with better ball movement and spacing I think he's going to have a breakout year. |
Lou Williams was better than Clarkson last year. Clarkson regressed from his rookie year, he didn't exactly take his game to another level, he actually got worse. |
That's false. Only area Clarkson became worst in was playing pg. his scoring was better rebounding seemed better as well. |
If you look at offensive rating, TS%, Ast%, per 36 minutes, PER, Win Shares, and Box plus minus stats Lou blows Clarkson out of the water. Overall Lou is and was a better player. |
Possibly because all Lou did was draw fouls but by no means was he the better player. |
ok, we will just ignore the numbers where Lou wins in most categories and go based on what you think is right.
It just helps if you can back up your claims. If you pull stats and sort through them, Lou has the advantage by a good margin. |
What numbers am I ignoring? The ones that say Clarkson avg 15.5 vs Lou 15.2ppg? What numbers the ones that say Clarkson shot 43% vs Lous 40%? Or the number that have clarkson avg 4 Rebs vs Lous 2? |
Not just you cherry picked numbers, like all of the numbers and advanced stats. Lou has him beat. You are free to think what you want, but the numbers don't support it.
PPG. lol |
The numbers you posted are a formula vs stats. The stats are a clear break down of each catagory while you're posting an offensive formula. You're free to believe what you want but I know Clarkson has more value in the league than Lou does. |
I don't think saying the numbers favor Lou means he has more value in the league going forward. |
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Dave20 Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2013 Posts: 11333
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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Practice wrote: | Dave20 wrote: | Russell1 wrote: | Dave20 wrote: | Russell1 wrote: |
So, the owner decided to keep him. West and Kerr have no power to veto a trade. lol
But the point is, JC is no Klay and doesn't hold that type of value. | No one is saying he's the exact same player as Klay, but that both were heavily criticized and been in trade proposals. Clarkson was the best player last year despite the circumstances. You're missing the point because you have a hidden agenda, Russell. |
If you look at every player on the team last year, Clarkson wasn't the best player. | He was the best player on the team Last year. Even the biggest Russell stan would tell you that. Lou relies solely on getting to the FT line and he was going against bench players. Clarkson avg his stats against the elite PG's in the west. What he did as a 2nd year player is remarkable given the ankle injury and different lineups under Byron. |
Why are you using Lou's ability to get to the line as a negative when it clearly makes him super efficient? | Its the only thing he's good at and most of it is ref baiting. Posters use his TS% to say that he's better but Lou always had a high % because he flops his way to the line. Lou TS% is better then Paul George and Lebron but that doesn't mean he's a better player. It's not even close Clarkson is better and their games are nothing alike. |
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Car54 Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 14424
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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Practice wrote: | Car54 wrote: | Russell1 wrote: | Car54 wrote: | Russell1 wrote: | Car54 wrote: | Russell1 wrote: | Car54 wrote: | Russell1 wrote: | Dave20 wrote: | Clarkson was the best player on the team last year. I understand your point of view of having a super 6th man, but if you think he's going to be happy coming off the bench you're in for a rude awakening. He doesn't have the mentality of a Ginobli, he's more alpha.
The ankle injury slowed him down for 3 weeks. He was shooting 45%FG, 40% 3pt most of the year. Defensively, we know he needs to improve and he's already working out now. If he improves his defense and with better ball movement and spacing I think he's going to have a breakout year. |
Lou Williams was better than Clarkson last year. Clarkson regressed from his rookie year, he didn't exactly take his game to another level, he actually got worse. |
That's false. Only area Clarkson became worst in was playing pg. his scoring was better rebounding seemed better as well. |
If you look at offensive rating, TS%, Ast%, per 36 minutes, PER, Win Shares, and Box plus minus stats Lou blows Clarkson out of the water. Overall Lou is and was a better player. |
Possibly because all Lou did was draw fouls but by no means was he the better player. |
ok, we will just ignore the numbers where Lou wins in most categories and go based on what you think is right.
It just helps if you can back up your claims. If you pull stats and sort through them, Lou has the advantage by a good margin. |
What numbers am I ignoring? The ones that say Clarkson avg 15.5 vs Lou 15.2ppg? What numbers the ones that say Clarkson shot 43% vs Lous 40%? Or the number that have clarkson avg 4 Rebs vs Lous 2? |
Not just you cherry picked numbers, like all of the numbers and advanced stats. Lou has him beat. You are free to think what you want, but the numbers don't support it.
PPG. lol |
The numbers you posted are a formula vs stats. The stats are a clear break down of each catagory while you're posting an offensive formula. You're free to believe what you want but I know Clarkson has more value in the league than Lou does. |
I don't think saying the numbers favor Lou means he has more value in the league going forward. |
My point is only on Lakerground will you hear that Lou Williams is better than JC. Most fans of other teams don't even count Lou Williams when they speak of the lakers Talent. JC name always comes up. _________________ Coach Vogel, Kidd, Hollins
Max slot : Kawhi |
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Practice Star Player
Joined: 14 Apr 2015 Posts: 4551
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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Dave20 wrote: | Practice wrote: | Dave20 wrote: | Russell1 wrote: | Dave20 wrote: | Russell1 wrote: |
So, the owner decided to keep him. West and Kerr have no power to veto a trade. lol
But the point is, JC is no Klay and doesn't hold that type of value. | No one is saying he's the exact same player as Klay, but that both were heavily criticized and been in trade proposals. Clarkson was the best player last year despite the circumstances. You're missing the point because you have a hidden agenda, Russell. |
If you look at every player on the team last year, Clarkson wasn't the best player. | He was the best player on the team Last year. Even the biggest Russell stan would tell you that. Lou relies solely on getting to the FT line and he was going against bench players. Clarkson avg his stats against the elite PG's in the west. What he did as a 2nd year player is remarkable given the ankle injury and different lineups under Byron. |
Why are you using Lou's ability to get to the line as a negative when it clearly makes him super efficient? | Its the only thing he's good at and most of it is ref baiting. Posters use his TS% to say that he's better but Lou always had a high % because he flops his way to the line. Lou TS% is better then Paul George and Lebron but that doesn't mean he's a better player. It's not even close Clarkson is better and their games are nothing alike. |
It obviously isn't the only thing he's good at but whatever. Also, TS% isn't the only stat being brought up and your comparison makes no sense. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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BigGameHames wrote: | Dave20 wrote: | Clarkson was the best player on the team last year. I understand your point of view of having a super 6th man, but if you think he's going to be happy coming off the bench you're in for a rude awakening. He doesn't have the mentality of a Ginobli, he's more alpha.
The ankle injury slowed him down for 3 weeks. He was shooting 45%FG, 40% 3pt most of the year. Defensively, we know he needs to improve and he's already working out now. If he improves his defense and with better ball movement and spacing I think he's going to have a breakout year. |
If you think the Lakers are going to make moves just to keep Clarkson happy then you are in for a rude awakening. They will do what they need to do to get better and if the young guys don't like it, they will have to deal. You don't get catered to after a 17 win season. |
Well said, and that includes Russell and Randle as well. Earn your spot if you can, and if someone is better, be the greatest second best you can be. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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Tony Anapolis wrote: | I have no problems with keeping Lou. Him and Clarkson is a nice scoring punch off the bench. Clarkson/Lou/Nance/Hernangomez/Biyombo is an interesting bench IMO. |
That is an interesting bench. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Would the Lakers trade JC for Kevin Love? |
I'm trying to figure out the punch line. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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Lucky_Shot wrote: | The hate on JC and LW is illogical.
Both are good players and JC is still 5 years away from his prime. He's the perfect age for our roster and has all the time in the world to improve.
Doesn't make sense to get rid of the rising players on our team. |
The only reason would be if he could be traded to make the team stronger. Otherwise he has talent and is hard working and will be on a very team friendly contract for the near future. You don't just let that walk. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Iversondalivest1 Starting Rotation
Joined: 06 Dec 2013 Posts: 293
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | Dave20 wrote: | Clarkson was the best player on the team last year. I understand your point of view of having a super 6th man, but if you think he's going to be happy coming off the bench you're in for a rude awakening. He doesn't have the mentality of a Ginobli, he's more alpha.
The ankle injury slowed him down for 3 weeks. He was shooting 45%FG, 40% 3pt most of the year. Defensively, we know he needs to improve and he's already working out now. If he improves his defense and with better ball movement and spacing I think he's going to have a breakout year. |
If you think the Lakers are going to make moves just to keep Clarkson happy then you are in for a rude awakening. They will do what they need to do to get better and if the young guys don't like it, they will have to deal. You don't get catered to after a 17 win season. |
Well said, and that includes Russell and Randle as well. Earn your spot if you can, and if someone is better, be the greatest second best you can be. |
Word |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Would the Lakers trade JC for Kevin Love? |
I'm trying to figure out the punch line. |
Sorry that's the JC for Blake griffin proposal. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Iversondalivest1 Starting Rotation
Joined: 06 Dec 2013 Posts: 293
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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At this point I'd like to keep all our young guys. But if it turns out we keep our top 3 pick and he turns out better than all JC, JR, and DLO combined (of course, hypothetically speaking) then I don't mind trading all three with the intention of getting better. |
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nash Star Player
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 Posts: 8194
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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Lucky_Shot wrote: | The hate on JC and LW is illogical.
Both are good players and JC is still 5 years away from his prime. He's the perfect age for our roster and has all the time in the world to improve.
Doesn't make sense to get rid of the rising players on our team. |
You don't get rid of productive players just because they take some shots and possessions away from your favorite player.
Last edited by nash on Tue May 10, 2016 2:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Fastbreak32 Star Player
Joined: 11 Oct 2011 Posts: 4746
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | Lucky_Shot wrote: | The hate on JC and LW is illogical.
Both are good players and JC is still 5 years away from his prime. He's the perfect age for our roster and has all the time in the world to improve.
Doesn't make sense to get rid of the rising players on our team. |
The only reason would be if he could be traded to make the team stronger. Otherwise he has talent and is hard working and will be on a very team friendly contract for the near future. You don't just let that walk. |
yup. _________________ LeBron, AD, & _________. Stay tuned.
"...there was a time when the Israelites were wandering in the desert and all of a sudden, bread came down from heaven,” Pelinka said. “That’s kind of what today feels like for us to have KCP join.” |
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Lakerpark Star Player
Joined: 09 Nov 2002 Posts: 2117
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 10:46 am Post subject: |
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If the Lakers are going to play Golden State style ball, they need good 3 pt shooters.
Do you guys consider Jordan Clarkson a good three point shooter?
Do you think he can improve his 3 ball much more?
This past season, he seemed to have improved his 3 from his rookie season but he seemed inconsistent.
there were games where he would get like 3 or 4 3 pointers in a row in the first quarter the cool off the rest of the game. |
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governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24996
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 10:51 am Post subject: |
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Lakerpark wrote: | If the Lakers are going to play Golden State style ball, they need good 3 pt shooters.
Do you guys consider Jordan Clarkson a good three point shooter?
Do you think he can improve his 3 ball much more?
This past season, he seemed to have improved his 3 from his rookie season but he seemed inconsistent.
there were games where he would get like 3 or 4 3 pointers in a row in the first quarter the cool off the rest of the game. |
yes, he definitely has the potential. The only thing is that out of the 3 young guys (Nance is a back up at this point), Russell is the better PG of the 2 and Randle solidifies himself at the 4. JC then has to play the 2 which he is a little undersized
JC is the most expendable trade chip we have and I won't be surprised if Lakers move him for a vet star |
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Roon Star Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2012 Posts: 1816
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 11:32 am Post subject: |
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governator wrote: | Lakerpark wrote: | If the Lakers are going to play Golden State style ball, they need good 3 pt shooters.
Do you guys consider Jordan Clarkson a good three point shooter?
Do you think he can improve his 3 ball much more?
This past season, he seemed to have improved his 3 from his rookie season but he seemed inconsistent.
there were games where he would get like 3 or 4 3 pointers in a row in the first quarter the cool off the rest of the game. |
yes, he definitely has the potential. The only thing is that out of the 3 young guys (Nance is a back up at this point), Russell is the better PG of the 2 and Randle solidifies himself at the 4. JC then has to play the 2 which he is a little undersized
JC is the most expendable trade chip we have and I won't be surprised if Lakers move him for a vet star |
Why would anyone trade a vet star for JC? |
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manlisten Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2004 Posts: 3169
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 11:43 am Post subject: |
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I'm not positive that Russell is a better PG than Jordan.
I'm pretty sure he's a better SG tho. _________________ It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
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Lakerpark Star Player
Joined: 09 Nov 2002 Posts: 2117
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 11:43 am Post subject: |
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So if everyone says JC plays horrible defense (doesn't know how or doesn't try) to me it seems like he should be vying for a spot with NYoung as one-sided offensive players.
People say JC is too short to play SG, NY is 6'7' and maybe has a better outside shot (if given regular PT and if he improves his shot selection).
Is Nick Young, who's taller, a better option than JC at SG?
Try to ignore the bias that BScott had against NY. When given regular PT, I think he did good (a couple seasons ago).
If Luke can impose the correct attitude in his players through fair treatment, is NY worth keeping? then maybe JC could be packaged in a deal for some other missing piece?
But of course, I do like JC too, just want the Lakers to have the best possible team.
Last edited by Lakerpark on Thu May 12, 2016 11:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24996
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Posted: Thu May 12, 2016 11:44 am Post subject: |
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Roon wrote: | governator wrote: | Lakerpark wrote: | If the Lakers are going to play Golden State style ball, they need good 3 pt shooters.
Do you guys consider Jordan Clarkson a good three point shooter?
Do you think he can improve his 3 ball much more?
This past season, he seemed to have improved his 3 from his rookie season but he seemed inconsistent.
there were games where he would get like 3 or 4 3 pointers in a row in the first quarter the cool off the rest of the game. |
yes, he definitely has the potential. The only thing is that out of the 3 young guys (Nance is a back up at this point), Russell is the better PG of the 2 and Randle solidifies himself at the 4. JC then has to play the 2 which he is a little undersized
JC is the most expendable trade chip we have and I won't be surprised if Lakers move him for a vet star |
Why would anyone trade a vet star for JC? |
If you can't trade your star for equal value then you look for potential/promising young player.
ex: K.Love for Wiggins/anthony bennett
Melo for Gallinary + multiple picks |
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